NYK won`t make the playoffs

no your not right about that. the trade talks continue because we are the Knicks. we cant accept 500 or below as OKAY! we do care about building the team with players "that dont just come and go" but how are we going to get them??? really? THROUGH TRADE!

we have a good core of 7 players that shouldnt leave unless something amazing comes....
C Nazr Mohammed
F Kurt Thomas
F Trevor Ariza
F Mike Sweetney
F Jerome Williams
G Jamal Crawford
G Stephon Marbury

we just need to fill in the gaps, and it mite not happen right now but eventually it will.
we need a new small forward:: we need to clear caproom:::we need a big man::: were not gonna get them unless, sorry to say, we trade....

i dunno ive become very pessmistic. i'd say no to the jalen rose trade. we already have one bad shot slection guy in crawford, we dont want another in rose. the two of them will stop any team chemistry from ever developing.

i think ive figured out why tim thomas is a bad rebounder and not lived up to his so called potential in general. he might be able to jump high or run fast, but he doesn't have quick feet. to be a good rebounder you need to constantly shuffle your feet around and get good position. basketball isn't about winning a 40 yard dash, its about constantly changing direction. shaw marion is VERRRY quick, thats why he's a monster rebounder. he moves his feet extremely well. tim thomas CANT. its even more important to be quick than to be tall and fast or even be able to jump high. marion at 6'7 gets 8 more rebounds a game than tim thomas at 6'10. and tim thomas doesn't seem to "hustle". i never see him making any plays. ever. at least van horn hustled after balls (even though he was even less athletic than thomas). tim thomas is a scrub and should be traded right away. ariza will put up almsot similar numbers despite the fact that hes a rookie if given similar minutes. ariza makes plays, whether its rebounding, steals, or just overall hustle. id trade tim thomas for a 1st round pick straight up, if theres any takers. and hardaway id give away for free, id just be happy that someone wants to take his contract. also, while kurt thomas is a decent player, hes just not an elite, dominating PF. opponents dont fear him. all he does is hit that 15 foot jumper 45% of the time. other teams can live that. id trade kurt thomas too for a 1st round pick. id also like to trade norris, who is only an average backup PG. vin baker sucks. bruno sundov sucks. sweetney is fat and slow. i dont think ive ever seen him dunk, and he's 6'8. he just takes up a lot of space so he can get some rebounds but thats about it. and he gets in WAY too much foul trouble because hes too slow to keep up with the other quicker and more athletic PF's.

isiah, please just get rid of all these overpaid scrubs. they all suck. the team you have built is going nowhere.

marbury
crawford / houston
ariza / sczerbiak
s. swift/ k.brown
e. curry / n. mohammad

if isiah was smart and could make some trades go his way, id love to see the above roster. and im being realistic (not just picking kg and kobe to come to the knicks all of a sudden). that team could do some damage in the playoffs i bet. not the crappy team we have now.

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isnt lebron james the sickest player? in 2 years i think hes going to average 30/8/8. hes going to be the greatest player ever. i used to think kobe had a chance to surpass MJ, but now i think he'll actually be a little bit worse at the end of his career thatn MJ (he seems a little too skinny and not able to dominate games as much as MJ did). he seems to need to force up shots sometimes to maintain a high scoring average (which explains his low shooting percentage). mj seemed more effortless in his ability to score in bunches. but lebron is a MAN and hes not even old enough to drink. that dude is sick. hes quick, athletic, rebounds, steals, shoots, jumps - he does everything. i heard somewhere that he has a kid already, is that true?

yea he had a son born at the beginning of the season i think

not to burst your bubble but how do you think we will get that team?

ADDING
Curry is a restricted free agent and you better belive the Bulls will sign him to an extension so we would have to trade...

Swift is a free agent not sure what kind so that is possible BUT why him? Kurt scores an avg of 4 points more per game then him and avg 5 more rebounds then him per game...there the same size so i dont really understand that...

Wally why is everyone up Wallys you know what. Is he actually that good? NO wasnt he the guy who was named "Most overrated player" a year or 2 back? Plus you have no way even if you wanted to get him seeing youd trade Kurt for a first round pick which i am getting to...

GETTING RID OF
KThomas a first round pick?!? that is stupid have you actually saw the prospects or furthermore the lack there of in the draft?!? Plus hes cheap (talkin about big contracts) and your not going to get someone for his price that does what he does really and hes not a dominate PF? okay true BUT Swift would do much better?

Norrishe is only an average backup pg? yea and what would you like an allstar backing up Marbury? that makes no sense either, steph plays most of the game anyways

TThomas yes that is correct, but not right away wait until offseason when his contract is actually attractable.

Hardaway get rid of him for free, 1st round pick or just dump him? yea ok well you cant get rid of em for free...you cant get a 1st round pick for him and by just dumping him we fork over 15 or w/e million for what? a roster space? when we can just get a decent player in Jalen Rose

MISC
Ariza Not ready for the big minutes yet. He is quick, energetic, explosive, good rebounder, good dunker and becoming a better shooter BUT hes young and im not saying young is bad, look at Lebron and Melo, but honestly he is not them! hes not mature enough as a player he thinks one thing and thats dunk he just needs to develop a little better bball IQ

Sweetney
He needs to lose some weight and get in better shape but besides for that hes good. young, cheap and good (what we need) and YES he can dunk i take it you dont watch a lot of knicks games??? cause on every commercial for the Knicks games on MSG it shows clips of Williams, Crawford, Mohammed and SWEETNEY all dunking...

were trying to build a decent roster and its not gonna happen if earliest the offseason....heres my main objectives i hope the Knicks take and dont mess up in the offseason...

Sign C Keon Clark
ReSign F Trevor Ariza
Trade G Penny Hardaway
Trade F Tim Thomas
Trade a package for C Eddy Curry

Getting Stromile would be great. He comes off the bench. That is why he averages less points than KT. And memphis spreads time around pretty evenly. Swift is a shot blocker thats what the Knicks need. Athletic defensive players And Marbury will make them better offensively.

well i never said it would be easy...

and yeah i know wally isnt that great, but maybe minnesota is getting sick of him and doesnt wanna keep him for the next few years and pay him all the money. maybe they will trade him for tim thomas and his expiring contract. id rather have wally than tim thomas. he can shoot better and scores a little ebtter and plays a little harder. and he'd be a good insurance for when allan houston will become old aand useless.

maybe memphis will realize they cant resign swift, and isiah can lure him away (maybe sign and trade involved with KT).

chicago is supposedly sick of curry, so maybe they'd trade him away for mohammad and/or kurt thomas (maybe antonio davis could be involved).

the whole point of getting expiring contracts instead of gettin rose and only extending the payroll is so that we CAN SIGN BIG FREE AGENTS and not have to try to trade for them (and usually have to take some bad contracts along with it).

maybe sweetney and ariza aren't quite there yet in terms of deserving big munites, but i BET they'd prdocue very similar numbers if given the chance as KT and TT. and that would improve the trade value tremendously, which would be great to use in the offseason.

yeah i know hardaway just sucks and is basically untradeable. nobody is going to take him.

basically i think that isiah shouldn't constantly try to make trades to "WIN NOW". look at what the phoenix suns did just ONE YEAR AGO. they traded away marbury, got rid of hardaway, said they were "moving in a different direction", and now they have one of the best teams in the NBA, in just ONE YEAR. i know they had marion and stoudamire already, but still. they were able to sign nash and richardson and give joe johnson time to become a better player because they got rid of bad contracts. we are the new york knicks. we would have NO PROBLEM signing big free agents if we weren't way over the salary cap. by unloading tim thomas and kurt thomas, we'd be moving in a different direction, but still their replacements wouldnt be much worse, and would get a good learning experience for the rest of the year, and we'd positin ourselves to get better in the future. kurt thomas is 32, hes only going to get older and slower. he's not a prototypical PF in my book. id rather have swift or k. brown or e. curry. yeah i know it might be tough to get them, but if isiah is a good gm like he thinks he is, i think he's got enough pawns and things going for him that he might be able to pull a couple of those trades off.

Wally-hes alright, i personally think Kurts better though. Okay Wally mite be younger but hes shorter and has been injured a few times if i can remember correctly. Plus as I said before Kurt was never named "most overrated player". Plus we are losing are leading rebounder and wally def. wouldnt make up for that. I just dont like the idea of Kurt FOR Wally. Now Tim FOR Wally thats okay. I think itd pass the commisioners money wise (they are 3-4 milliom apart) approval but the Timberwolves have said they have NO interest in trading Wally at this time. But you talk about expiring contracts and we are basically losing one in TT's and picking up another 5 year 9-13 million dollar one. Our good insurance for Allan Houston is already there JAMAL CRAWFORD...

Swift -yea that sign and trade would work, but would it be great for us? he is younger, and faster and would be a better inside presence. But besides for that he has never avg numbers like kurt, even when he was playing big minutes. I wouldnt mind this though well get faster, younger, more energetic is great.

Curry- once again im not sure on how much were allowed to sign free agents for because im not good in that area, especially when we already spend the money we do. I never heard of the bulls being sick of Curry but if so thatd be good for us. theyd still sign him to an extension most likely and maybe we can trade i have no clue actually it depends on how much they resign him for. Im sure we can make a package including Tim Thomas and Kurt (if we dont use him in the swift thing) for Curry and Davis...i dont know why the bulls would do that though. we have a better chance at getting chandle which is ok i guess.

Rose- I dont understand your comment there, I said we get him for penny. Penny has one year left on his contract in the offseason and so does Tim BUT who would trade Penny and Tim for more expiring contracts? that doesnt make sense, the reason Tim/Penny are good bait is because people are trying to unload their contracts and players they want out for a contract of equal $ that will run out real soon. So that is kinda impossible unless we just hold on to their contracts and let them run out. which is stupid when we can create good bait for something better.

Ariza&Sweetney- they are too young still. Ariza isnt all knowledgable in bball IQ yet and you can tell that when he plays. Sweetney needs to lose a little weight and relax with those fouls. Everyone complains we are not looking into the future and if we trade them in the offseason that would be are dumbest move ever. Then we are truly stuck with a bunch of aging players...

Our future is what we make it, and I really am not sure of it right now...

Marbury, Crawford, Sweetney, Ariza- are the only untouchables on my list, everyone else can go. It's not that I don't like other players on the Knicks, I do. But thats the core I would hold on to, with Marbury being the oldest one on my list. From there, you add the other pieces to the puzzle.

but dont u think nobody should be untouchable, in a sense...

if the lakers said we'll trade you kobe for marbury, i'd do that in a heart beat. and id trade sweetney for eddie curry straight up (i think isiah tried to do that already actually).

if its the right players and the right situation, anybody can be traded. its a business, as they say.

did anybody manage to build a good team arround Marbury in his NBA history... I don`t think so, I would be ready to trade him not just for Kobe but for Jason Kidd too
we have to do something otherwise my topic subject will come true

A knick fan wrote:

I guess we could just be patient and do nothing and wait till this offseason to use t thomas and hardaway's expiring contracts to sign young, talented free agents

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I think you are somewhat confused.

When we receive expiring contracts, that's when we can come off the books and go try to sign big free agents. But during this offseason we will be releasing expiring contracts, which means we can go after a good player and accept the rest of his big long term contract.

Kobe for Marbury nice but would never happen. on a side note i admit kobe is a good player but too much baggage hes turnin into another spreewell minus being a team player. i dont like kobe hes a primadonna and wouldnt fit in NY to me atleast. "i dont have shaqs number if i did id apologize" what a punk bit.

Anyways Kidd for Marbury...not again! Kidd is just another 5 year long BIG contract exactly like Marburys and you get exactly the same thing in exchange well PLUS Kidds constant injuries.

Oh i read this in NYDN and i heard what I wanted to hear...what do you think???

Some see Thomas eventually turning to the biggest free-agent coach, Phil Jackson. When Jackson isn't criticizing Kobe Bryant, he has been campaigning for the Knicks job. A more plausible candidate may be Larry Brown, who is rumored to be on his way out of Detroit after this season. Brown is a close friend of Thomas' and would automatically go to the top of Thomas' wish list.

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I do think Marbury and Crawford are the both a big problem. They take bad possesion shots. That is when a player (Marbury or Crawford) take a shot when no Knick player is in a rebound-ready position, as well they take poor shots early against the shot clock.. This has happened lots recently. As team leaders, they need to ensure they are not ataking shots for the sake of shooting. And please stop with the Eddy Curry talk. With the recent turn of the Bulls fortunes, who in there right mind would trade Curry or Chandler. Won't happen, so get over it! Swift is a guy we should pursue. He's kinda like a K-Mart in training. The Knicks need to get bigger, as well as address their bench. I thought the Knicks should have got Smush Parker, can score and Handle the rock, he defends ok. Eddie House would have been nice as well. Anyways we need guys that can play down low. If webber is stll available I say we get him. As well, Jalen with Webber, makes us bonafided. Fab Five reunion in NY is what I say. I hate Wally. we have bad enough defenders, so we move a bad defender for a worse one??? I fail to see that logic. I hope we get better soon. Whatever it takes.

If we get a new coach that will knock some sense into these kids we will be fine. We dont need Wilkens who will just be like "thats ok, better luck next time".

Is get over it your catch phrase?? Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler are both free agents, Curry being a restricted one...so if Eddy wants to go with his bestfriend in Jamal Crawford im sure he could hold out and do it. and who knows with Tyson.

Fab five? you must be talking about the queer eye guys buddy cause you have a better chance of seeing them on the sidelines at MSG then Howard, Rose, Webber, King and Jackson. More than likely you were talking bout just rose and webber and id love to see that....We do agree on a few things though. a thumbs up to Swift. a thumbs up to Rose. a thumbs up to Webber.

Penny for Rose and Kurt and Tim Thomas for Chris Webber...pick up stromile, dont resign brewer or sundov. resign Ariza. and fill in the bench i like Keon Clark and Eddie House.

C Nazr Mohammed
F Chris Webber
F Jalen Rose
G Jamal Crawford
G Stephon Marbury

BENCH
C Keon Clark
C Vin Baker
F Stromile Swift
F Mike Sweetney
F Jerome Williams
F Trevor Ariza
G Allan Houston
G Eddie House
G Moochie Norris

I like it and its very possible...what do you think?

this topic's title should change into NYK won't make the playoffs...

kobe has no need to apologize to shaq. first of all, i wouldnt be the least bit surprised if its true that shaq did sleep with other women and paid them not to tell. and its not like kobe ratted him out to the national media. he was just saying it to the investigators who were interrogating him. he was probably trying to prove that if he really raped the girl, he would have just paid her off to keep her mouth shut, but that since he was innocent and sure of it, he wasn't going to pay the girl anything. he wasnt saying: "please tell the whole world that shaq sleeps with other women". i dunno why everyone got on kobe for that one. i think everyone takes it easy on shaq and gives kober a hard time. hes a superstar, id trade anybody on the entire knicks roster for him in a heart beat. the lakers made the right move in keeping kobe; shaq is aging and past his prime. kobe can still get better. no brainer.

the knicks suck. if we get jalen rose, we will have not one, not two, but THREE ball hogs and bad shot takers who arent good shooters in our starting 5 in marbury, crawford and rose. we will be one of the worst teams in the league with no chemistry whatsoever. i guarantee it. rose is a cancer. DO NOT GET HIM. id trade marshall for kurt thomas straight up though. kurt is getting old. marshall has great energy. and, marshall can play the 3, so we could actually have a starting 5 of:

Marbury, Houston, Marshall, Sweetney and Mohammad.

Personally, i KNOW that this team is going nowhere. I'd completely unload every contract on the team and just start fresh.

Trade Marbury, Houston, Hardaway for Rahim, Stoudamire, Patterson, Telfair and Outlaw

Trade Crawford, Sundov, Baker for Nene, Nikiloz Tsikivitisisiii (whatever his last name is)

Trade K. Thomas and T. THomas for Spreewell (and let him go after the season) and Olowokandi

Isiah could easily make the payroll go from 100 million to 15 million this season. Then, sign free agents or do sign and trades or whatever, and get Curry (possibly Shaq Jr.), K. Brown (possibly ben wallace Jr.), S. Swift (possibly K. Mart Jr.), and any other talented free agents with 3-4 yrs of experience in the league, and build around them. I bet we can go from losers to winners in TWO YEARS. all isiah needs to do is have the BALLS to unload contracts and accept defeat this year. phoenix turned around in ONE year. we are the knicks, we will have no problem getting people to come here. we arent the utah jazz. but isiah's ego is too big - he'll never do it. thats why we will suck not just this year, but in the comming years as well. i think i might convert and become a charlotte bobcat fan before the knicks actually become a good team.

well it looks like we are out of a playoffspot right now and this gives the topic a bigger meaning. Do you really guys think we are gone be able to pass first round? Well i think we will manage to get in this years playoffs somehow but we will be too tired to even win 1 or 2 games.
Lenny you had your time!!!! please leave us now... not because you are not a great coach but these guys need a wizard right now! somebody who can shake their had and make them work...if not for themselves and their ``poor`` contract then for us!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

No actually Kobe just said it to be kobe. even if he did say it to the investigators why would he blurt it out? oh im innocent unlike shaq who pays ppl off? thats ignorant. and who said they made a bad idea with the shaq trade i dont even think i brought that up. thats why he kobe also blurted out that malone allegedly said sumtin to his wife. kobes a punk.

AND that had to be the worst idea ive ever heard...in no way would they ever be accepted for salary or by true knicks fan!!! they just dont make any sense...

marbury, hardaway and houston fo Rahim, Stoudamire, Patterson, Telfair and Outlaw ---why? okay getting rid of houston would be ok...but hardaways contract bait and just marbury straight up is horrible...NY fans would not accept that in anyway and attendance would def. go down...
Trade Crawford, Sundov, Baker for Nene, Nikiloz Tskitishvili why again?
Trade K. Thomas and T. Thomas for Spreewell and Olowokandi no no no

New York isnt going to stand for a rebuilding process and i understand wed get a bunch of expiring contracts but who would we pick up in the offseason so great that the LOW attendance and LOSS of interest would be worth it??? Eddy Curry? (not goin anywhere unless by trade) Swift and Brown (good players but not a person to build a team on)

the knicks are about three things winning, excitement and superstars. and we mite not be doing the winning right now but we atleast have the fans into it for the most part and some stars. with all these trades we clear up space YES but who is going to sit in the stands to even care about cleared up cap space???

think for logical trades thatd make us better right now...trade for rahim, or for marshall, or for walker, or pull of that webber trade and then wait until the offseason for the free agents and expiring contract bait...

Become a bobcat fan cause with stupid ideas like that we dont need you

those are just ideas for trades. basically i think the payroll is bloated and needs to be cut down. every team is really bad before it becommes really good. at least by unloading we might position ourselves to get a top lottery pick. imagine if we did that last year and could have dwight howard to build around this year. maybe the clippers will get sick of eltron brand or corey magette or seattle wont think it can afford ray allen or milwaukee wont be able to afford michael redd. if we have a payroll BELOW the salary cap, we can actually make things happen and get these guys. marbury is a great player, but if we can use him to get rid of other contracts we dont want to start new, i think its something we must do. one season of bad ticket sales and bad attendance and fan disinterest is tolerable by me if it means success in the future. and KNOWLEDGABLE fan would understand that every team needs to go through a rebuilding phase at some point or another. besides, 80 million off the payroll will make up for some of the lost attendance. its worth it.