knicksince 93
Rotation player
kiyaman the bonafied idiot reminding me why I stopped posting here in the first place
peace[/QUOTE] me like wise.... peace. dudes a moron
peace[/QUOTE] me like wise.... peace. dudes a moron
Rate PJ's first 90 days on the job
- Thread starter tiger0330
- Start date
jimkcchief88
All Star
Caseyr
Rookie
I can't make a new thread but knicks made a trade
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...gs-trade-quincy-acy-wayne-ellington/13675973/
ellington and tyler and a 2nd round pick for Quincy acy and travis outlaw
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...gs-trade-quincy-acy-wayne-ellington/13675973/
ellington and tyler and a 2nd round pick for Quincy acy and travis outlaw
I was reading they were trying to deal Prigioni to get rid of Ellington which made no sense. We removed the protection on the 2nd round pick we dealt to Portland in the Felton trade now owned by the Kings, minor trade but I do remember when I thought Travis Outlaw was a stud and I like Phil wheeling and dealing.
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RunningJumper
Super Moderator
I don't get this trade. Is it more cap space after Outlaw's contract comes off the books, seeing potential in Acy? I'm disappointed Tyler was traded and another pick is gone. Not enough information in that article.
petescud
Starter
I'm giving Phil a C+ as most of this roster explosion doesn't make us much better if any...I think signing Melo was a good thing even though i hate iso Melo ball. At least he could be traded this way and not lost for nothing. on the b side i think 90 days is stupid to give a GM a rating anyway. Lets see where we stand Chrismas time next year. Hopefully then we can give him an A
KO Forum are one of the last "Open-minded free commenting" forums on the web.
I been posting in several Knicks forums in 2005-6, when Metro and Crazy8 also posted in several Knicks forums (like they still do now) and they invited me to KO forum.
At first, I didn't like all the name calling drama, and all the homo drama in KO forum so i finally signed up but stayed ghost as a member.
KO Forum gathered hundreds of members on the internet by having the best Knicks Game-Threads on the web in 2005 to 2012, plus KO had a helluva lot of spy-hackers in KO forum who gave out info on so many things.
I sat back for years staying out of all the KO forums miseryluvcompany of bickering/threats by half the members in KO forum for several years which lead to a lot of KO members going back to their previous Knicks forum, or join a new Knicks forum. I blamed all the Knicks forum bickering/argument on Dolan's advertising hype at the start of each season having $100M cap team that cant make the playoffs at the end of the season.
Having a b.ball moron owner James Dolan hiring LOSERS for over a decade to give Knicks fans hope for a future winning team .. Laydum-loser, Isiah-loser, Larry Brown-loser, Walsh-loser, Dantoni-loser, Grunwald-loser, Woodson-loser. How many Knicks fans debated with another Knicks fan about one of the above losers?
The majority of Knicks forums today are dictated by silly-rules which closed-Post, and ban members from freedom of speech of mentioning a player, coach, GM as a loser.
If a member in these silly-rules forums post coach Woodson is a loser-coach at the start of last season, they would've been warned of being suspended.
Being that I been a member for so long in some of these silly RULES-RULES Knicks forums, my comments on ISO-Melo and Puppet coach woodson last season, caused me to receive warning of suspension 2 or 3 times, my post on trading Melo closed, last season from several silly-RULES Knicks forums.
Last year in October when my prediction of the 54 win Knicks team will not be able to win 40 games in the 2013-14 season. It didn't matter that i laid out the FACTS why, or it became fact.
Last year this time, I made it known that I didn't like resigning JRsmith, and when ISO-Melo announce opting-out at the end of season during the preseason games, I wanted Mills to show signs of trading Melo asap, before Melo became pure cancer in the locker room.
A weak Knicks fan like "knicksince 93" bowed-out of KO forum in our first game-thread of the season, he became so furious at the 20 game schedule i filled with Knicks losses to the point of wanting to make a bet me on leaving KO forum. I quickly ignored him.
I seen these type of childish bets in so many forums between members, and we all know knicksince 93 are not the first childish member to make that kind of bet to another member.
If u dont like my posts or disagree with my posts, then just mention it.
All the name-calling is childish asking for a no response
I agree but being an open forum is not helping. We need members and activity, having 10 guys talking among themselves is not going to cut it. I don't see KOL going another 2 seasons with the membership the way it is now and the only reason it makes it through this season is Rady has already paid for the hosting services for this upcoming season.
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Truth b said, Rady's our CHAMP!!!
As a chess player, i would have approved a "Rady & Crazy8" partnership on Knicks Online.com
The Tandem would've been like two Rooks on the board!
Being an OPEN-Forum helps out a lot, especially when the season begin.
Old and new members cant help from clicking on KO forum to see the status of the forum, plus voice their opinion.
I got faith in rookie head coach Derek Fisher having a 45 + win season.
Phil Jax need to stick to being a headcoach
I say very average, the way he handled the carmela negotiations was not very good. Losing out on kerr was a negative, not that kerr is some HOF coach, but the thinking was that PHIL's name and reputation was supposed to be the ace in the hole for the knicks.. so far, I don't see that..
donchris
Next season, keep waiting
I've never been a huge fan of Melo, but much of the recent criticism seems unfair and inaccurate. The 'he did it for the money' argument doesn't hold water. He would have made more money had he never opted out. The truth is the Knicks are not that far behind Chicago. We didn't make the playoffs and Chicago got crushed in the first round. It's not like he turned down the Clippers.
You need a superstar to build around and if Melo can adapt to the triangle this can be a very serious playoff contender in the eastern conference.
Grading Phil: Bringing in Fisher was a good move but it's still too early to grade this move. Trading Chandler and Felton was an excellent move. Felton is finished and Chandler has spoken freely against Woodson. Not good to have a player undermining a coach. Bringing in Calderon was definitely an upgrade at pg. Time will tell obviously, but these moves look good.
You need a superstar to build around and if Melo can adapt to the triangle this can be a very serious playoff contender in the eastern conference.
Grading Phil: Bringing in Fisher was a good move but it's still too early to grade this move. Trading Chandler and Felton was an excellent move. Felton is finished and Chandler has spoken freely against Woodson. Not good to have a player undermining a coach. Bringing in Calderon was definitely an upgrade at pg. Time will tell obviously, but these moves look good.
No he wouldn't have. He could only sign a 4yr extension including the opt in yr. While his salary would have been more per yr for tose 4yrs the guaranteed money wouldn't have been on 5yrs. He's making around $5-6mil less in his first 4yrs on this contract had he extended and not opted out.
He does have an opt out yr 4 of this deal which makes it comparable to a 4yr extension. Once again the key difference is the 5th yr as he can use it as insurance a la Amar'e & Bagnani opting in, knowing money may be scarce for him at 34-35yrs of age.
Melo is not a Superstar more so a glorified All-Star if that. Calderon eats into our 2015 cap almost double what Felton was making. Do you see Calderon starting on a contending team? I don't. What year will we contend? next yr or the yr after? Calderon will be pushing 35 come on. Calderon has spent most of his career leading teams to the lottery. You said time will tell, well some players don't have time
ofcourse he did it for the $$$$... he gave phil a 1m a year discount... BIG_DEAL... phil can wipe his a$$ with that $$$... if he so into winning, why not pull a Duncan, or a dirk... give the club some flex... he gave them dick...
and I don't have a problem with anyone signing for the most $$$ they can get...BUT say it was the $$$....
Sure would have liked to see Phil offer Melo something like 100M over 5 years and say "We think it's a fair offer, it's more than Carmelo could make anywhere else and it gives the Knicks more flexibility to build the competitive team Carmelo wants". Would have loved to see Melo's reaction if Phil told him that.
RunningJumper
Super Moderator
I wonder if that's when "winning" would have been more important to Melo when being asked and he would have went to another team.
I'm not hating on Melo. I hope he plays a big role in a championship for us, just yeah. I don't mind him not taking the Duncan discount, he's 30, but he's made enough in his career to take a significant discount. If winning was that important he would have realized he'd still be making bank from his contract and making a load of money from endorsements, it's New York.
I'm not gonna be negative. He might be generally a nice guy too, but he has to be better at how he approaches things whether it be statements he makes or hire a better talker for him, or both.
Welcome, I like the new member "TFK" already.
I also had the vision of Phil Jackson hiring ex-GM Kerr as the Knicks headcoach to play GM/Coach, plus hire Derek Fisher as the Knicks top assistant headcoach, with a few of Phil and Kerr ex-players on the Knicks coaching-staff.
I also vision Phil giving Melo what Melo ask for "a pay-cut!". be careful what u ask for!
I also expect Phil to do something quick about our "oil vs water" big-man situation of Tyson/Barg/Amare/K-Mart/Melo during the month of July.
Phil suppose to let all our bigmen know next season will be a same-page team when he FIRED the entire coaching-staff. Who want to stay a Knicks? and who dont want to stay a Knicks?
With a big-man rotation of Tyson/Amare/Melo/K-Mart/and Bargs the Knicks were suppose to make it to the ECF.
The so-call injuries, woodson, felton, and jrsmith poor performance was not suppose to be an excuse for not making the postseason games.
The Knicks hiring the famous "ZEN" were suppose to move mountains like he did with Chicago and the Lakers.
Adding Calderon to the roster was a very good decision however, we needed another big trade in July, to add a 2nd PG with starter experience to the roster, making Pablo Prigioni our 3rd PG to use as a defensive combo in small lineup for playing time.
PG-Larkins SL performance is not the PG we need to depend on if Calderon (32 age) or Pablo (37 age) is out with injury for more than a week in a 82 game season.
I did expect more from the "ZEN" in the month of July and early Aug. then playing around with adding FOUR SF to the roster in "Melo/Early/Acy/Outlaw".
For some unknown reason sports writers/announcers has not put Phil's Knicks on the list of contenders in the East???
Ohm Youngmisuk of ESPN gave PJ a B+ in this writeup. Phil made the choice to build around Melo, he could have gone in the other direction and rebuilt from scratch in letting him go but Ohm calls Melo one of the all time greats so while you may question whether Melo is one of the top players to ever play the game, the decision to re-sign him was a safer one.
Today’s question: How would you grade Phil Jackson so far?
When Phil Jackson took over as Knicks president in mid-March, he had the tall task of rebuilding the Knicks in his desired image of team ball, keeping Carmelo Anthony, fixing the Knicks’ salary cap and finding a new coach.
In just a few months, Jackson has already put his finger prints on the organization. To be honest, I have been somewhat surprised at how much Jackson has done in a short time already.
[+] EnlargeAP Photo/Seth Wenig
Jackson hired trusted former player Derek Fisher as coach last June.
Let’s start with his biggest win to date as first-time team president –- keeping Melo. Sure, Jackson had the cards stacked in his favor with the ability to pay Anthony more than any other team. But Anthony could have easily left to join Derrick Rose in Chicago or Kobe Bryant in Los Angeles or Dwight Howard in Houston.
Anthony says his decision came down to the Knicks and Bulls. Chicago pulled out all the stops as Tom Thibodeau and the Bulls organization did their best to convince Anthony that the Bulls were his best chance to win a title in the near future.
But Jackson provided Anthony with enough of a plan to convince him to stay. Without a doubt, money ($124 million) played a role in keeping Anthony. But Jackson did convince Anthony to take $5 million less than the max to help a bit with the cap. His steady demeanor, calming influence and all those championship rings certainly were a factor in Anthony’s decision.
Anthony bought into Jackson’s vision and plan for the Knicks’ future. A rebuilding project that will be directed by Derek Fisher. Jackson’s second-biggest move of his tenure thus far was the hiring of Fisher.
Fisher may be unproven having never coached before. And he was Jackson’s second choice
behind Steve Kerr. But after losing Kerr, Jackson got the next best option and really the only solid alternative left from his coaching tree to sell to the fan base.
Jackson absolutely needed Fisher. He wanted a coach who was molded in his image. A coach who was familiar with the intricacies of the triangle, a proven winner and someone with the type of personality to handle New York. Fisher fits the bill. And look, it’s possible that Fisher ends up being a better coach than Kerr, who also has never coached before.
Jackson will mentor Fisher and be able to establish the team-first culture he wants through the former Lakers point guard.
If these had been the only two moves Jackson had made going into the new season, the Zen Master would have had a successful summer. But he also made other moves that showed he isn’t standing pat and waiting until next summer to start changing the Knicks’ identity.
[h=4]Melo's Place[/h]
Carmelo Anthony is the Knicks' biggest star. He's also one of the all-time greats. Jackson unloaded the unhappy Tyson Chandler and disappointing Raymond Felton to Dallas in exchange for Jose Calderon, Samuel Dalembert, Shane Larkin and two second-round picks.
I felt the Knicks lost value in Chandler’s defense/rebounding and his expiring contract. But in order to get rid of Felton, Jackson had to do it. Also, Chandler seemed like he was ready for a fresh start elsewhere and Jackson cited chemistry as a reason for doing the deal.
Calderon will be a slight upgrade over Felton. Reason I say that is his defense certainly will be exposed on some nights. He should be a better shooter and distributor than Felton and likely a better fit in the triangle. By all accounts, Calderon is a well-liked player in the locker room so that bodes well for chemistry. But again, defensively, Calderon could struggle.
Dalembert will help replace some of the things Chandler gave the Knicks. He can rebound and block shots. His basketball IQ may not be as good as Chandler’s though. Chandler was the defensive quarterback of the team.
Larkin is the wild card in the trade. I do like Jackson getting the former first-round pick back in this deal. Even if Larkin doesn’t pan out, it is worth seeing if the speedy guard can reach his first-round potential under Fisher’s guidance. If he does, that would be a very pleasant surprise.
Jackson also was able to get the Knicks back into the draft after initially having no picks due to previous trades. He used one of his second rounders on Cleanthony Early, who could end up being a contributor. At the very least, Anthony provides the Knicks with some more young legs and a potential asset as Jackson wants his team to get out in transition.
The Knicks president wasn’t done wheeling and dealing. He signed center Jason Smith in free agency, providing the Knicks some much-needed height and depth inside. Smith could be a terrific fit in the triangle with his ability to hit from the outside and he can be a shot-blocker as well if he can remain healthy.
And Jackson dealt Wayne Ellington, who also came in the Dallas deal, and Jeremy Tyler to Sacramento for Travis Outlaw and Quincy Acy to add more depth at forward and some toughness in Acy.
All in all, Jackson was probably busier than most would have predicted in his first few months on the job. He could have stood pat and just re-signed Anthony and hired Fisher. But he made other moves to try to improve the team for this season and retain cap flexibility.
Obviously, he has many more moves to make with next summer, which is a critical offseason for him. That is when he will truly earn his big bucks. But through the first six months on the job, Jackson deserves a B+ so far.
Bump ----
F for Fail for the ****ty season. He hasn't changed anything as far as the culture and that triangle is an overrated piece of crap, it's the players that make the system not the other way around
Incomplete for creating all that cap space and putting the Knicks in a position for one of the top 5 picks in the draft. He has no excuses for not turning around the Knicks next season. Not making the playoffs next year and hearing excuses about it takes time to build a team with the worst record to a playoff contender is not going to cut it with me.
F for Fail for the ****ty season. He hasn't changed anything as far as the culture and that triangle is an overrated piece of crap, it's the players that make the system not the other way around
Incomplete for creating all that cap space and putting the Knicks in a position for one of the top 5 picks in the draft. He has no excuses for not turning around the Knicks next season. Not making the playoffs next year and hearing excuses about it takes time to build a team with the worst record to a playoff contender is not going to cut it with me.
Yep, 3 months into the season Phil Jackson gets another F+ for FAILURE!!!
Not for the 5-32 tanking record .. for not taking OKC 2015 first round draft pick for Iman Shumpert.