View Poll Results: Who should the Knicks draft in 2015?

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  • Jahlil Okafor

    1 20.00%
  • Karl-Anthony Towns

    3 60.00%
  • Emmanuel Mudiay

    1 20.00%
  • D'Angelo Russell

    0 0%
  • Kristaps Porzingis

    0 0%
  • Kevon Looney

    0 0%
  • Willie Cauley-Stein

    0 0%
  • Mario Hezonja

    0 0%
  • Myles Turner

    0 0%
  • Stanley Johnson

    0 0%
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  1. #1
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    Default 2015 NBA Draft Poll

    It is too early to know what the Knicks draft position will be. When that is known a more specific poll may make sense. However, let's assume that they have a sufficiently high pick to get who you really want them to get. You can interpret this as they have the top pick. One could argue that the top pick gives you the ability to pick whomever you want, but this is not necessarily the case. It can be argued that having the top pick might force the Knicks to pick the consensus top player rather than the player you might actually prefer. Some of this is the classic best player for the position of need or best player available debate. Some of this is simply a debate about what is it the Knicks even need. It can be argued that the only thing the Knicks do not need is a SF, so I would argue draft the player who gives you something much harder to find in free agency without overspending.

    Let's just ignore all that for now, since none of us control nor can we predict either how the bottom dwellers will all play the last two months nor the random bounce of a ping pong ball.

    I could limit this poll to say three or six players but given the early nature of this poll, let's just take the top ten players on Chad Ford's big board (since that is the limit on this forum) and give everyone a shot to say why they would take X over the rest.

  2. #2
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    OK, so now I will try to make the argument for (and against) each choice above:
    1) Okafor: dominant postup C (defense questionable, rebounding not elite)
    2) Towns: defends, rebounds, scores C (more of a jump shooter, not a dominant postup)
    3) Mudiay: explosive SG/PG, good rebounder (turnover prone)
    4) Russell: elite passer, scorer SG/PG (consistency unproven)
    5) Porzingis: versatile defender, good handle PF (tweener, soft?)
    6) Looney: versatile on both ends PF (needs to develop overall offensive game)
    7) Stein: dominant defensive player C (not elite rebounder, offensive game raw)
    8) Hezinja: High IQ version of Melo SF (the one thing we do not need more of)
    9) Turner: Complete game, no real weakness PF (no elite skill, health issues)
    10) Johnson: Elite defender who can score and rebound SF (consistency, decision-making)

    I am guessing that even the Melo haters are not going to choose a SF but I left them in anyway, because hey, I could be surprised, and I get it that, if we did not have Melo the SFs might be quite attractive.

    OK, so where do I stand? Not ready to vote yet; torn between (at least) three choices.

    Summary of my current thinking:

    A) Mudiay could become Westbrook. However, even with that potential upside, if we are going with a guard, I would prefer Russell, whose upside is Chris Paul. I simply prefer high IQ low turnover to the freakish athlete. I also would prefer to draft Russell and develop him to over-paying for Rondo or Drajic.

    B) Stein is the pure defensive play, and the Knicks defensive needs are legion. However, I would still prefer a more of a two-way player, so if we draft for defense Towns is the better choice, or even Looney. Porzingis is also a good defender, but the soft tag scares me.

    C) Okafor could be the next superstar, and would love to see the Knicks with an old-school postup demon. The issue is can he learn and be motivated to become a better than average defender, and if so, how long will it take?

    A lot depends on your free agent plan. For instance, if your top-free agent targets are Dragic or Rondo, you draft a big. However, if you think you can land Gasol or Aldridge, then maybe Russell is the better draft pick. If you think Greg Monroe is a more realistic target (and assuming his contract expectations have come back to Earth), then maybe drafting a similar player in Okafor makes less sense than more complimentary players, such as Russell or Towns. On the other hand, a solid defensive PF free agent may come considerably cheaper, along with say a Reggie Jackson, in which case Okafor could make a lot more sense.

    The rub is that Phil Jackson knows who he would like as free agent targets but will need to decide the draft pick before he knows who he can actually get. The returning players other than Carmelo probably do not factor at all into the draft day decision.

    I do not think you can lose with any of Okafor, Towns, or Russell; so as long as the Knicks are in the top-three they are OK. Note, however, that even with a last place finish this year, they could end up with the fourth pick.

    Who the Knicks end up with will drastically change how they will rate free agents.

    I am very interested how these three fair in the poll, and if any of the other seven make a stronger than expected showing, as well.

    In accompanying replies, feel free to explain your choice and to list your second, third, and other picks as well (since the top pick is still less than a 25% chance, and fourth or lower is still very possible).

    As I stated when I created this poll, once their draft position is known, a very different poll will likely emerge as more interesting.
    Last edited by nixon7; Mar 07, 2015 at 08:49.

  3. #3
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    Nice thread Nixon7 but there is an NBA Draft thread already that discusses the draft. Consensus of the top 5 is the same as the top 5 names in your poll.

    Mafra proposed a great idea if the Knicks get the top pick since PHI seems to want a PG since trading away MCW. Trade the top pick to them so they can select either Mudiay or Russell and we get their pick and one of their later 1st rounders. If LA loses their draft pick to them this year that would give them further incentive to make the trade for the Knicks number 1 since they would have 2 picks in the lottery.

    One more reason I don't like this triangle offense is now you have to consider who fits in this god awful system. Mudiay might be the best PG in the draft but Russell might be the better fit for the triangle and Okafor may be a better fit in the triangle than Towns.

    I like Karl Towns more than Okafor, he can learn the post game, defense and rebounding are god given talents. In any case, the Knicks needs are many and wherever we pick I think they'll have a first year starter whoever they pick.
    Last edited by tiger0330; Mar 07, 2015 at 11:26.

  4. #4
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    I think you still have to go Okafor with the number one overall pick, but man, those other options all seem to be more promising to build a franchise around for a team that just invested an era to great offensive frontcourt players who can't play defense and can't rebound. When's the last team we had a shot at an elite young guard? The 3 weeks of Linsanity? Best all-around two-way backcourt player. That's who I want, but seems to have so much more bust risk than Okafor or Towns.

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    I saw your draft thread tiger0330, and read most of it. I just did not know how to post a poll within a reply, so I started a new thread. I do agree the trade down for two first rounders could be attractive, although the drop off after the top 3 is pretty big IMHO. Still with all the picks we have traded away, an opportunity to add picks is hard to pass up.

    I considered adding trade down to the poll at option #10 but I wanted to include Stanley Johnson for his elite defense. I considered dumping Hezinja for this, because at SF seemed like a real stretch choice anyway. Maybe I should have, but someone would have complained it I did (yes, that is YOU KIYAMAN LOL).

    Can one edit a poll (since no one has voted yet) once created?

  6. #6
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    I don't think you can add a poll to an existing thread so I see why you started another one. Trading down for the Knicks will depend on what happens with the lottery balls, they absolutely have to get the first pick or pick ahead of Philly with either Russell or Mudiay gone by the time the Knicks pick.

    Just posted an article from the NY Post about Okafor and Towns, I wouldn't be surprised if the Knicks select Towns with the number 1 instead of Okafor.
    Last edited by tiger0330; Mar 07, 2015 at 17:05.

  7. #7
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    Minny going for a BIG .. Okafor or Towns
    Philly going for a Guard .. Russell or Mudiay
    Lakers n Knicks are going NUTS .. having a $25M per player on the roster not named Lebron
    Magic going for a BIG
    Kings going for a Guard

  8. #8
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    I am down to Towns or Russell as my top choices. It is all about chemistry and projected FA acquisitions. If you assume the top attainable big in free agency is Greg Monroe, the case becomes clearer.

    No matter how good Okafor becomes, his only real skill is as a post-up center, and Monroe does this better right now, and also defends better. So by adding Towns as a PF, you now have complimentary offensive players, who can both defend; while with Okafor you have players with duplicate offensive skills, at a duplicate position, with a weaker defense and a hole at PF.

    I can see getting Monroe and Draymond Green in free agency and drafting D'Angelo Russell instead, especially if we end up with the third or fourth pick rather than a top-two pick. The core of Monroe, Green, Anthony, and Russell may be better than the core of Monroe, Towns, Anthony, and Rondo; for instance.

    Russell may be a better pick than Towns in the long term, especially if luring Green, LaMarcus Aldridge, or Durant are possible at the PF. Towns is the safer pick, but you then have to address the back court in free agency, along with making Greg Monroe an offer.
    Last edited by nixon7; Apr 04, 2015 at 13:09.

  9. #9
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    I didn't see the Kentucky/Wisconsin game but does anyone think the loss affects Towns or WCS draft position and does Kaminsky move up with the Wisconsin victory. Huge upset but that game with the Irish was a sign that Kentucky was over-hyped and maybe its top two draft picks Towns and WCS as well.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger0330 View Post
    I didn't see the Kentucky/Wisconsin game but does anyone think the loss affects Towns or WCS draft position and does Kaminsky move up with the Wisconsin victory. Huge upset but that game with the Irish was a sign that Kentucky was over-hyped and maybe its top two draft picks Towns and WCS as well.
    I watched the game and I don't think it affects Towns. All the same positives and criticisms of his game seemed to be on display. The game might affect WCS, who didn't do much, but he's still a top ten pick in my mind. Kaminsky continues to impress, but I don't think there is too much room for him to move higher in the draft. I still would rather have WCS than Kaminsky in the NBA.

    On a side note, the more I watch of these big men, the more I wonder if we shouldn't be targeting Russell or Mudiay. As good as Okafor is on offense and Towns is on both ends of the court, if your backcourt is year after year the worst in the league on both ends of the court, can you beat anybody? I don't think either Okafor or Towns could do as much to change our fortunes overall as Russell or Mudiay.
    Last edited by htr10; Apr 05, 2015 at 10:50.

  11. #11
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    I just noticed Kaminsky wasn't even a pick in this poll. I don't see how he's not a top 10 lottery pick now.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger0330 View Post
    I just noticed Kaminsky wasn't even a pick in this poll. I don't see how he's not a top 10 lottery pick now.
    It's an interesting point, but even now, I've still yet to see a mock draft with Kaminsky ranked in the top 10.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by htr10 View Post
    I watched the game and I don't think it affects Towns. All the same positives and criticisms of his game seemed to be on display. The game might affect WCS, who didn't do much, but he's still a top ten pick in my mind. Kaminsky continues to impress, but I don't think there is too much room for him to move higher in the draft. I still would rather have WCS than Kaminsky in the NBA.

    On a side note, the more I watch of these big men, the more I wonder if we shouldn't be targeting Russell or Mudiay. As good as Okafor is on offense and Towns is on both ends of the court, if your backcourt is year after year the worst in the league on both ends of the court, can you beat anybody? I don't think either Okafor or Towns could do as much to change our fortunes overall as Russell or Mudiay.

    Kaminsky played a much better season than Towns, Kaminsky performance brang out the best in his teammates all season long. Big difference!

    htr10 .... great point on the Knicks desperate need for GUARDS to win.
    Trade Calderon & THJ to Hornets for Lance Stephenson on draft night.

    u would think Phil Jackson knew about having the top-elite guards in the league to win 13 championships, starting from Earl Monroe & Clyde to MJ & Pippin to Kobe & Fisher ..
    What guards did Phil & Fisher tutor-train throughout the 2014-15 season? by giving the most playing-time minutes to? Larkins! A player that shouldve been cut in the Knicks summer league games when Galloway outshine Larkins in every aspect of b.ball in summer games. This season playing-time minutes did improve Larkins IQ as a PG to be a teams 3rd PG on the roster next season.
    Next season the Knicks roster must start training-camp with 6 to 7 bona-fide NBA guards on the roster to bring some chemistry WINS in MSG .. We are in the same predictament as the end of lastseason, we must get rid of Felton/Calderon by trade in offseason!

    Okafor like Anthony Davis is a pick u cant refuse!
    When it comes to Towns being the Knicks pick .. then I would trade down for the combo-guard Mudiay pick.
    I would like to have two young combo-guards coming off the bench in Galloway & Mudiay in the backcourt the next 4 years. Plus trade for Lance, and sign two FA PG

    Here's the roster of guards Phil Jackson has to get to put the triangle-offense into a win-win form

    1) RFA PG-Reggie Jackson .. or RFA Brevin Knight
    2) FA PG-Mo Williams .. or FA Brooks or FA Barbosa
    3) RFA Butler
    4) SG-Lance
    5) Galloway
    6) Mudiay .. or the number #1 pick PF-Okafor

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger0330 View Post
    I just noticed Kaminsky wasn't even a pick in this poll. I don't see how he's not a top 10 lottery pick now.
    The poll was based upon Chad Ford's big board on March 6th. I agree Kaminsky played well in the tournament, but he still has not cracked the top ten on the ESPN board, it is Justise Winslow who has displaced Stanley Johnson.

    As far as "why ten?" that is a function of the SW which runs this forum.

    A fresh poll might be in order. If I were constructing one today, I might only take the top eight or nine on the board, and add "Trade down for multiple first rounders" and "Trade pick for a current NBA player" options. I might also look at other boards, although finding a "consensus board" can be difficult.

    It seems clear the poll was premature, given the lack of response so far. I thought it would yield some interesting results prior to the draft lottery establishing our actual position. However, I am sympathetic to the lack of votes since I am still on the fence between Towns and Russell. It will be interesting to see what Phil actually ends up doing.

    One additional thought. Tempering expectations is still very much in order. Even with two top FA acquisitions and a draft pick, the Knicks will not have a starting five, let alone a strong bench, on opening day 2015. There is a lot of work ahead.
    Last edited by nixon7; Apr 12, 2015 at 14:13.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by htr10 View Post
    I think you still have to go Okafor with the number one overall pick.


    Okafor performance throughout his freshmen season spelled #1 pick.
    Okafor has NBA Star material written performance.
    Towns showed potential, averaging 22 minutes in Calipari's long winning rotation 38-0.

    I believe both players should stay another year in college .. Tha paper $$$
    How does Melo & Towns sound?
    or low-post Okafor & Melo sound?

    Mudiay .. would be a great challenge for coach Fisher to develop the next 3 seasons
    Winslow talent got NBA written performance

    Phil could trade-up or down .. just a thought
    Last edited by Kiyaman; Apr 14, 2015 at 00:44.

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