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  1. #31
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    No need for a pg at all in the triangle. Phill should know he needs a goat shooting guard to win a ring. How likely is that. Not very. But this is the chance. 4th pick. Unless they tank again this is it. Or is there one in free agency? They likely get role players like Monroe in free agency.

  2. #32
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    Winslow is a lot shorter than I heard when he was playing in the tournament, thought he was 6'7" in shoes during the tourney but he measured out at 6'4.5" w/o shoes at the combine. He's got the most NBA ready body of all the rookies though but didn't appear to have uber hops from what I saw to compensate for his height. He's got other good qualities but does anybody think he falls due to his height or lack of it.

  3. #33
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    Knicksblog published this article which contains many of the points you made re: why the Knicks should pick Winslow. Props to Paul for his bball iq.

    I would be all over Russell though if he fell to 4. He could be the next Steph Curry.


    Why the Knicks should select Justise Winslow with the fourth pick
    May 22nd, 2015 10:54 am

    Keith Schlosser, Lead Writer
    According to most NBA Draft experts, the likes of Emmanuel Mudiay and D’Angelo Russell rank as the top consolation prizes for teams falling just short of nabbing Jahlil Okafor and/or Karl-Anthony Towns at number one and two overall, respectively.

    This would obviously include the Knicks, who arguably have the most to gain with so much rebuilding to do.

    Each guard is very talented, boasting very promising futures. But a point guard isn’t what the Knicks need. Of course, the draft is often about selecting the best overall talent. It’s not that New York has a floor general on board already — finding talent through the draft means building for the future, and Jose Calderon’s first campaign with the team was underwhelming anyway. It’s more so that the triangle offense doesn’t call for a point guard to be a centralized figure in the system.

    If Russell falls to number four, a case could be made for them Knicks to select him because of his ability to play off the ball. But, alas, it’s much more likely to be Mudiay left at the top of the board when it comes time for the Knicks to make their pick. Mudiay shouldn’t be the player New York is targeting. The young gun is an explosive player around the rim and a dynamic scorer, but he clearly thrives with the ball in his hands. He’d serve much better in an offense that runs through him.

    The Knicks already employ a player like that in Carmelo Anthony. The superstar can create his own offense better than most players in the NBA. When healthy, Anthony seemed to struggle this past season while adjusting to the triangle. The system is all about spreading the floor and moving the ball. Players are constantly on the run.

    There’s only one basketball, and it may not be big enough for both Anthony and Mudiay (let alone, everyone else that stands to get touches in the offense).

    Taking all of this into consideration, the Knicks should strongly consider drafting Justise Winslow. He may not be the best raw talent, but he arguably stands to have more success in the triangle than any other player in the draft. The swingman is agile, athletic, explosive, and plays with a boatload of energy. Able to move his feet very well, Winslow has the potential to guard up to three positions on the court. This makes him very versatile, all the while giving the Knicks the best chance to be creative with different lineups. While he doesn’t have the best jump shot, Winslow is a great slasher and knows how to make his way inside and get to the basket effectively.

    Nevertheless, the fact that some of his biggest strengths are displayed when he doesn’t have the ball in his hands is a huge plus for a team like the Knicks.

    It doesn’t hurt that he’s coming to the NBA fresh off an NCAA national championship. He’s a winner, which obviously plays into the culture Phil Jackson and Co. are trying to create.

    Though Mudiay may have more talent, it’s up for debate whether or not the Knicks would be able to utilize such talent (or if it would seemingly go to waste) in the triangle.

    On the flip side, Winslow could contribute in a number of different ways. He has the opportunity to grow and develop his skills even further, all while making an immediate impact. This is the type of player New York should target in the draft.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger0330 View Post
    Knicksblog published this article which contains many of the points you made re: why the Knicks should pick Winslow. Props to Paul for his bball iq.

    I would be all over Russell though if he fell to 4. He could be the next Steph Curry.
    Thank you!!
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  5. #35
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    If the Knicks are targeting the best player to step in an contribute this season, and compliment both Carmelo & the triangle, then a case could be made for Winslow, WCS, & Frank the Tank. This would be even more attractive if we could slide back a few picks and pick up another asset (only if we like all 3 of those players equally, and are fine "settling" for any 1 of them).

    Knicks could play small (employ JW & 'Melo at SF & PF) or play pig (JW at the 2 & 'Melo at 3). The question is: Do you grab the C, with 1 great skill (WCS) or the wing player that does a plethora of things well)? Tough call.

    I do know this... when you draft for need, you're more probe to make mistakes. I could stomach swinging for the fences, rolling the dice on potentially elite players (Mudiay & Pirzingis) and missing... then I would stomach playing it safe, based on need, and missing on good (not great), role players.

    The reality is: In this draft... 2 players possess UNIQUE... ONCE IN A DECADE (OR GENERATION) type of skills... Okafor's repertoire of moves, his soft hands, vision, BBALL IQ, footwork, is impossible to find. A true, legitimate post scorer... will be unstoppable. HIs kind doesn't exist anymore... Not since Duncan and Shaq. Then there's Pirzingis... a true DIRK clone. 7"1 and is maybe best shooter in this draft, a 19 yr-old who oozes athleticism, with bouncy hops, and a freakish wingspan. Pirzings can shoot like DeAngelo Russell and potentially... eventually... play defense like WCS.

    SIZE + TALENT is hard to find.
    Also, this is a PG league. Knicks have looked for a PG for eons. The best PG in this draft is EM.

    In this draft... there are 7 legitimate future All-Star type prospects: most suggest only 1 of these 9 prospects will fail: Okafor, Towns, Mudiay, Russell, Winslow, Pirzingis, Hezonja, WCS, Stanley Johnson. This makes this the deepest draft since '03.

    We will get a good player (as long as we don't trade out of top-10. BUT, of the top 10 guys... Only Okafor & Pirzingis are rare gems. A PG like Mudiay comes along every few years, players like the rest are available in every draft.

    So, if it were me... I would think long and hard if I was gonna convince myself that Winslow, or WCS, was the choice. WHY? Simple: they aren't the best player on the board when we select (4th). THEY MAY PROVE TO SOLID, ALL-STAR players... and justify the pick... but I would be crossing my fingers regardless.

  6. #36
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    Winslow has great body control... I don't recall him getting called for a charge... for a guy who drove to the hoop a lot. He can shoot, pass, dribble, and would be a great fit in the triangle. I watched every Duke game. He plays defense and all that... he had his ups-downs, slumps and highs... I would be concerned about his athleticism... and question how his game translates b/c he was at his best when he played the PF... the bigs couldn't guard him... He wont play PF in the NBA tho... SO, this decision will boil down to his tryout when we gauge his jump shot.

    Just remember this: Mudiay had 15 points & 6 assists in 21 minutes (2014 McDonald's All-American Game)... Winslow (and Towns) didn't score double digits (Okafor was MVP). There was a reason why Okafor-Mudiay were the most coveted-touted 2 players in recruiting...

    Winslow and Towns played on teams with 6-7 other blue chip All-Americans, and played against inferior competition most games.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mafra View Post
    If the Knicks are targeting the best player to step in an contribute this season, and compliment both Carmelo & the triangle, then a case could be made for Winslow, WCS, & Frank the Tank. This would be even more attractive if we could slide back a few picks and pick up another asset (only if we like all 3 of those players equally, and are fine "settling" for any 1 of them).

    Knicks could play small (employ JW & 'Melo at SF & PF) or play pig (JW at the 2 & 'Melo at 3). The question is: Do you grab the C, with 1 great skill (WCS) or the wing player that does a plethora of things well)? Tough call.

    I do know this... when you draft for need, you're more probe to make mistakes. I could stomach swinging for the fences, rolling the dice on potentially elite players (Mudiay & Pirzingis) and missing... then I would stomach playing it safe, based on need, and missing on good (not great), role players.

    The reality is: In this draft... 2 players possess UNIQUE... ONCE IN A DECADE (OR GENERATION) type of skills... Okafor's repertoire of moves, his soft hands, vision, BBALL IQ, footwork, is impossible to find. A true, legitimate post scorer... will be unstoppable. HIs kind doesn't exist anymore... Not since Duncan and Shaq. Then there's Pirzingis... a true DIRK clone. 7"1 and is maybe best shooter in this draft, a 19 yr-old who oozes athleticism, with bouncy hops, and a freakish wingspan. Pirzings can shoot like DeAngelo Russell and potentially... eventually... play defense like WCS.

    SIZE + TALENT is hard to find.
    Also, this is a PG league. Knicks have looked for a PG for eons. The best PG in this draft is EM.

    In this draft... there are 7 legitimate future All-Star type prospects: most suggest only 1 of these 9 prospects will fail: Okafor, Towns, Mudiay, Russell, Winslow, Pirzingis, Hezonja, WCS, Stanley Johnson. This makes this the deepest draft since '03.

    We will get a good player (as long as we don't trade out of top-10. BUT, of the top 10 guys... Only Okafor & Pirzingis are rare gems. A PG like Mudiay comes along every few years, players like the rest are available in every draft.

    So, if it were me... I would think long and hard if I was gonna convince myself that Winslow, or WCS, was the choice. WHY? Simple: they aren't the best player on the board when we select (4th). THEY MAY PROVE TO SOLID, ALL-STAR players... and justify the pick... but I would be crossing my fingers regardless.
    Not sure I would call Okafor a once in a generation player like the Dream or Timmy. He's got a great post game but bigs can learn that when they get coaching and have been in the NBA for 3-4 years. Okafor just has learned the post game a lot earlier in his young life.

    I am intrigued by this kid Prozingis and I hope the Knicks take a good hard look at him, I doubt they draft him after the Frederic Weis and Bargnani disasters but if the Knicks pick him I'd be happy with the pick.

  8. #38
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    Porzingis seems to be a nice find. His stroke is as brilliant for a player his size as his lateral quickness. The problem just is that there is a lot of physical development to be done and he need to be more aware of where he is and what he should do. Give him the right system and he could be brilliant in a few years time, but I am afraid we haven't had a history of providing that in the past. Time and again we have seen great potential leaving the Knicks blossoming somewhere else. Before we can think about developing talent we need to create a stable situation by drafting instant impact players. Until the whole unstable culture of this franchise changes, we are a potential career risk for players like Porzingis.
    "Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand."
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by pat View Post
    Porzingis seems to be a nice find. His stroke is as brilliant for a player his size as his lateral quickness. The problem just is that there is a lot of physical development to be done and he need to be more aware of where he is and what he should do. Give him the right system and he could be brilliant in a few years time, but I am afraid we haven't had a history of providing that in the past. Time and again we have seen great potential leaving the Knicks blossoming somewhere else. Before we can think about developing talent we need to create a stable situation by drafting instant impact players. Until the whole unstable culture of this franchise changes, we are a potential career risk for players like Porzingis.
    Draft a big and the Knicks need to bring in a big man coach. Thibs is an excellent big man coach, I doubt he would take an assistants job in NY if the Bulls let him go but he made Yao Ming a great post player when he was an asst in Houston.

  10. #40
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    Heres a funny bit about when Thibs was training Yao told by TMac. How could anyone not improve with a guy like Thibs coaching you.



    After a few minutes talking about the new house Yao picked out far closer to downtown than his home outside Katy, McGrady tries to talk Yao into moving to his Sugar Land neighborhood, only to be told that it is "too far."

    "Oh, I forgot," McGrady says, beginning his long bit on Rockets assistant head coach and Yao tutor/shadow Tom Thibodeau. "Tibs wants you there two hours early every day."

    With that, McGrady launches into a description of Yao's day Sunday, when he battled a stomach virus with several trips to the Staples Center men's room.

    "Every time you went in there, he had to follow you?" McGrady says. "Every time you're in there, and there's Tibs. 'Yao, we have to go over defensive tendencies. Yao, we have to talk about this.' He couldn't even let you do that by yourself?"

  11. #41
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    what is the role of a pg and sg in the triangle offense and would their skills be utlized in the triangle offense? id like to know how mudiay and winslow skills would fit in the triangle? would winslow be a sg or sf with knicks?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mafra View Post
    Winslow has great body control... I don't recall him getting called for a charge... for a guy who drove to the hoop a lot. He can shoot, pass, dribble, and would be a great fit in the triangle. I watched every Duke game. He plays defense and all that... he had his ups-downs, slumps and highs... I would be concerned about his athleticism... and question how his game translates b/c he was at his best when he played the PF... the bigs couldn't guard him... He wont play PF in the NBA tho... SO, this decision will boil down to his tryout when we gauge his jump shot.

    Just remember this: Mudiay had 15 points & 6 assists in 21 minutes (2014 McDonald's All-American Game)... Winslow (and Towns) didn't score double digits (Okafor was MVP). There was a reason why Okafor-Mudiay were the most coveted-touted 2 players in recruiting...

    Winslow and Towns played on teams with 6-7 other blue chip All-Americans, and played against inferior competition most games.
    Both of your posts were excellent. You make good points, Mafra. What you mentioned about Winslow playing well as a PF is what Fran Frischilla said in his interview with Micheal Kay on ESPN radio. You also made a key point that all players will be good so getting the best available player should take priority over the triangle and need. Then the question is who is the best player? Is it mudiay, porzingis? We should also draft someone that can start in year one in my opinion.
    "The Knicks are back" - Amare

  13. #43
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    Video of Winslow in the half court offense.
    Last edited by Wargames; May 23, 2015 at 02:03.

  14. #44
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    Gotta love that Eurostep and this is a game that Okafor sat out.

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    Here's another good video showing him driving in the half court and scoring in transition. Exactly whats needed from SG's in the triangle

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