Mudiay glad not to be a Knick because of Triangle

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....ppy-to-have-avoided-knicks-triangle-in-draft/


As we all feared PJAx antiquated offense is scaring players away. If a rookie doesn't want to play for us, how the hell are we gonna draw top free-agents

jimkcchief88 said:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....ppy-to-have-avoided-knicks-triangle-in-draft/


As we all feared PJAx antiquated offense is scaring players away. If a rookie doesn't want to play for us, how the hell are we gonna draw top free-agents

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Add HOFer Gary Payton and Shane Larkin as guys not fond of the triangle. Like most fans I was excited about the triangle last pre-season but the proof is in the results. You get too many mid-range shot opportunities, not enough FT's, not enough 3 pt shots. This is a 3 pt shot oriented league now, just look who made it to both conference finals.

Not sure what happens with the triangle this year because DFish said he at least wants to run a drag screen as the first play in transition this season but PJ says he doesn't want to play drive and kick out bball. The Knicks didn't run a lot of triangle in summer league, you would hear Clyde say they're not running the triangle, just playing bball. Let's see what happens but if the Knicks struggle with it in camp and in Dec. they would be idiots to keep running it.

tiger0330 said:

Add HOFer Gary Payton and Shane Larkin as guys not fond of the triangle. Like most fans I was excited about the triangle last pre-season but the proof is in the results. You get too many mid-range shot opportunities, not enough FT's, not enough 3 pt shots. This is a 3 pt shot oriented league now, just look who made it to both conference finals.

Not sure what happens with the triangle this year because DFish said he at least wants to run a drag screen as the first play in transition this season but PJ says he doesn't want to play drive and kick out bball. The Knicks didn't run a lot of triangle in summer league, you would hear Clyde say they're not running the triangle, just playing bball. Let's see what happens but if the Knicks struggle with it in camp and in Dec. they would be idiots to keep running it.

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I was never excited about the triangle. I was always curious as to why many teams didn't use it, if it was so good.. Listen, you can take Jordan, Pippen, shaq and kobe and run basically any offense and win. but I have seen a couple of teams try to run the triangle, bill cartwright and the bulls for one and it didn't do well.

I don't dislike the triangle because you don't get a lot of 3 point shots. I love high percentage shots, the three should be used as another weapon, but not your main weapon, this may be a 3 pt shot oriented league now, which may explain why we have a lot of players who don't shoot very high fg%... I don't mind the mid range shot at all.. what I don't like about the triangle is that talented PG's who do multiple things well seem to get mitigated a bit.. It seems as if it is an offense geared towards talented SG's...

The scary part is that it looks like Phil's rational for not drafting Mudiay was after showing Mudiay film of the triangle it didn't seem Mudiay grasped it right away so he didn't fit the scheme. Huh???? Good coaches get the talent, fit the scheme to the talents not vice versa. I guess the franchise worse 17 win season didn't teach PJAx you can't survive in today's NBA without top tier PG play. I guess we will see if Grant can fill the spot, but you can't argue Mudiay would have been a better choice.

jimkcchief88 said:

The scary part is that it looks like Phil's rational for not drafting Mudiay was after showing Mudiay film of the triangle it didn't seem Mudiay grasped it right away so he didn't fit the scheme. Huh????

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Which does not bode well for his basketball IQ. It's not rocket science, you know.

Just because most teams are spending 75% of their time behind the arc doesn't mean that this is the way to go, this is just being trendy. GS and SA won because they're talented teams, not just because they camp out behind the 3-pt line all game. The early to mid part of the 00s (even a little earlier) was great basketball; we saw balanced three-point shooting, slashing, w/ post play + a little mid-range mixed in. This team would be fine had we had a post presence + slashers. The advanced mumbo-jumbo analytics might say threes are the way to go, well at the very least there needs to be talent to inititate this floor spacing-- a post player or at least a intelligent PG that can run an offense & finish at the cup

Steezo said:

Just because most teams are spending 75% of their time behind the arc doesn't mean that this is the way to go, this is just being trendy. GS and SA won because they're talented teams, not just because they camp out behind the 3-pt line all game. The early to mid part of the 00s (even a little earlier) was great basketball; we saw balanced three-point shooting, slashing, w/ post play + a little mid-range mixed in. This team would be fine had we had a post presence + slashers. The advanced mumbo-jumbo analytics might say threes are the way to go, well at the very least there needs to be talent to inititate this floor spacing-- a post player or at least a intelligent PG that can run an offense & finish at the cup

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I was a fan of JVG's half court style of bball when he had Yao Ming. The guy had a beautiful post game that JVG used for his inside out half court offense. Post players like Yao are now a rare breed, BLopez one of the remaining ones left.

It got JVG fired in the end though because it was too slow and the owner Les Alexander wanted to play faster because it was more exciting for the fans.

pat said:

Which does not bode well for his basketball IQ. It's not rocket science, you know.

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But by the same token you are right, it is just basketball. There is a certain feel and flow to the and Mudiay seems to have it. It doesnt take a strict system to adhere to when a guy knows how to play the game. Mudiay's basketball IQ was good enough for Larry Brown to recruit him. That's good enough for me and SHOULD have been good enough for Phil. You don't need a degree from Notre Dame to be a successful PG in the NBA on Chief

pat said:

Which does not bode well for his basketball IQ. It's not rocket science, you know.

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Yeah because Kobe knew everything about the triangle at age 19 too(rolling eyes). What did you take from his comments when he said he would have love to be Fisher's understudy and learn more about the triangle?

I'm not sure about the truths behind these once again unconfirmed comments, other than to say most players end up feeling welcomed by the team that took the guts to take them and ultimately feel it was the best place for them to be. I mean what else are we expectating to come from his camp....that he's absolutely devestated 6 teams passed on him and that he's already depressed in Denver?

The story came from Berman of all people I doubt he's plugged in to non internal sources....and that he's remotely close to anyone asscoiated with Mudiay. This is pretty much a non story and about 2week old news anyway.

tiger0330 said:

I was a fan of JVG's half court style of bball when he had Yao Ming. The guy had a beautiful post game that JVG used for his inside out half court offense. Post players like Yao are now a rare breed, BLopez one of the remaining ones left.

It got JVG fired in the end though because it was too slow and the owner Les Alexander wanted to play faster because it was more exciting for the fans.

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I realize that the back-2-basket prototype pivot is pretty much extinct, I'm not exactly asking for that, but in today's times just somebody like a Brad Daugherty or Tom Chambers; a big man that can take you off-the-dribble and has a mid/high post game, as that seems to be what defines the inside game nowadays. Or even a Sam Perkins type, can mix it in-and-out. What we really needed was Okafor-- while he may not be a future HOF, he does seem he will be a dominant post presence for years.

I know there'd be issues, but as the most viable plan I personally see, I like Anthony @ the 4, if what we're limited to @ the 5 is a Robin Lopez. Carmelo has a nice post-game and his most efficient years came when he took less threes (although having a scorer like Iverson helped). Get a true PG that doesn't dominate the ball (Eric Maynor would've been a realistic option, but he hasn't been the same since his knee tear), a clutch wing and go from there. Afa the bolded, I could give a damn WHAT the "fans" want; Denver played that way for years and couldn't sell tickets to save their lives...

Looking for players to play the Triangle-offense on a team without any experiece triangle players on the roster, plus a roster without any leadership players the new players could depend on for advice. The important parts of a system.

In 2008 the Knicks were looking for players to play the run n gun SSOL offense system without any of the important parts.

JVG had success bc he was Pat Riley assistant coach. The Knicks still played the Pat Riley system after Riley QUIT the Knicks.
JVG was a tier-2 Pat Riley coach .. JVG took the Knicks to the FINALS off of Star player Sprewell team leadership.

Rajon Rondo came out and said the triangle is not really a good look for me. Count him out as a solution for the Knicks PG woes. Bumping this thread to hear your ideas on other FAs who are or aren't a fit for the triangle.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...s-the-triangles-not-really-a-good-look-for-me

I would assume most ball-dominant PGs would be turned off by the triangle offense...

I would assume the triangle offense works well with guys like Frazier and Reed, MJ and Pippen, Kobe and Shaq...

You need quality wing players, versatile forwards and dominant BIG men.

Still, I prefer motion, spacing, ball movement, cutting... over speed ball, ISOlation, PGs that pound the dribble and perimeter dillydadling waiting for the 3-bomb...

tiger0330 said:

Rajon Rondo came out and said the triangle is not really a good look for me. Count him out as a solution for the Knicks PG woes. Bumping this thread to hear your ideas on other FAs who are or aren't a fit for the triangle.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...s-the-triangles-not-really-a-good-look-for-me

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I saw this quote too yesterday. As an aside, I think it's funny that Rondo doesn't seem to understand the game that every other FA plays of pretending the Knicks are a serious consideration as a means of possibly driving up their price.

I think Mike Conley is starting to gain steam for us (at least from a rumors standpoint). He is a big PG who plays smart and is a solid two-way player. Conley, unlike Rondo, also seems to be saying things that you could interpret as being favorable to him being available to the Knicks in FA. For example, there's a recent quote where he was asked if he had agreed with Gasol to stay in Memphis and he said no.

Conley is making less than 10 million this season, but he likely will draw much bigger offers this offseason, probably driven by us. Unless I'm missing something, even if we move a couple contracts, Memphis still has much more cap space than us for this offseason, so we can't outbid them. So, there you go.

Beyond Conley and Rondo, the only other unrestricted free agent PG for this offseason that I have seen listed is Brandon Jennings and it sounds like a mid-season trade may decide his team for next season.

I also just read online that Frank Isola says we should pursue Boston's Evan Turner, who will also be an unrestricted free agent this offseason. I guess theoretically he can run the point.

Obviously I'm far from the first person to notice this, but given an already signed starting frontcourt of Robin Lopez, Melo, and Porzingis, there are not a lot of options in free agency this offseason where we are going to be able to upgrade our starting lineup.

Any soon to free agent to be, if we're playing them...they'll be discussed as if they are the top priority of summer. The media is trying to get some ink out while players provide typical responses of them keeping their options open to keep value at an all time high.

Currently we should have Kevin Love/Rondo/Dragic/Monroe already on the team according to the scripts written long ago. Jennings most likely gets traded to Brooklyn for Thaddeus Young unless something changes drastically now til deadline. It's gonna be another offseason like the last where we end up with targets who are our 5th and 6th choices.

htr10 said:

I saw this quote too yesterday. As an aside, I think it's funny that Rondo doesn't seem to understand the game that every other FA plays of pretending the Knicks are a serious consideration as a means of possibly driving up their price.

I think Mike Conley is starting to gain steam for us (at least from a rumors standpoint). He is a big PG who plays smart and is a solid two-way player. Conley, unlike Rondo, also seems to be saying things that you could interpret as being favorable to him being available to the Knicks in FA. For example, there's a recent quote where he was asked if he had agreed with Gasol to stay in Memphis and he said no.

Conley is making less than 10 million this season, but he likely will draw much bigger offers this offseason, probably driven by us. Unless I'm missing something, even if we move a couple contracts, Memphis still has much more cap space than us for this offseason, so we can't outbid them. So, there you go.

Beyond Conley and Rondo, the only other unrestricted free agent PG for this offseason that I have seen listed is Brandon Jennings and it sounds like a mid-season trade may decide his team for next season.

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Cap space doesn't matter with Memphis in Conley's case, they have his bird rights and can pay him more than any team and go over the cap. I don't think the Griz are crazy enough to give him a max contract and the Knicks ought to pass on him as well if they have to pay him nearly 27M over 4 years but that's the only way the Knicks can possibly outbid the Griz for Conley.

Rondo is actually more obtainable, no team not even Sac-town can give him anymore than a 4 year deal but he's probably right in this ****amamie triangle system where fit is so important he's probably a square peg in a round hole.

Wow interesting reads and thought the thread bump was because we will see Mudiay tomorrow night fresh from torching the Bullies Friday night in a comeback win for the Nuggets...I am still in the camp "we wouldn't be having this conversation" if we would have just drafted Mudiay in the first place"

(Ny post)

And though Porzingis has leveled off in recent games, Mudiay is starting to play his best ball of the season after recovering from an ankle injury. Mudiay, 19, will make his Garden debut in a Super Bowl Sunday matinee ? the player most Knicks fans hoped Jackson would take at the time.

Mudiay was plagued by early-season turnover issues and his 3-point shot needs work, but he runs a team well. He probably will run a team in the All-Star Game one day, as he is also an excellent defender.

?He?s been phenomenal for a rookie point guard,?? a Western Conference personnel director told The Post. ?You can go back 15 years, and the only 19-year-old to come in as a rookie and start at point guard was Kyrie Irving. And Kyrie was more prepared offensively because he could just shoot from the outside. Eventually he will be able to shoot the ball like that. He?s going to be a very, very special player.??

mafra said:

(Ny post)

And though Porzingis has leveled off in recent games, Mudiay is starting to play his best ball of the season after recovering from an ankle injury. Mudiay, 19, will make his Garden debut in a Super Bowl Sunday matinee ? the player most Knicks fans hoped Jackson would take at the time.

Mudiay was plagued by early-season turnover issues and his 3-point shot needs work, but he runs a team well. He probably will run a team in the All-Star Game one day, as he is also an excellent defender.

?He?s been phenomenal for a rookie point guard,?? a Western Conference personnel director told The Post. ?You can go back 15 years, and the only 19-year-old to come in as a rookie and start at point guard was Kyrie Irving. And Kyrie was more prepared offensively because he could just shoot from the outside. Eventually he will be able to shoot the ball like that. He?s going to be a very, very special player.??

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Porzingis had 17 points, 10 rebounds, and 6 blocks against Memphis. If that's leveling off, I'm looking forward to him getting it going again. Mudiay was impressive against the Bulls (except at the free throw line), but if we were playing them after the Utah game, where he played poorly against Utah's PG who I literally can't even name, does this story get written like this?

You also cut out the first paragraph of the story where it basically says no one thinks Phil Jackson made the wrong pick by taking Porzingis over Mudiay.

I wanted Mudiay over Porzingis on draft night, too, but I'm not sorry how things turned out for us so far.