Game Thread: New York Knicks @ Utah Jazz 9:00pm 12/09/2015
- Thread starter rady
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so you are expecting carmelo to give us roughly 30ppg which he has never done in his career and aflalo to give us 20 ppg which he has never done in his career?
Good luck with that..
I think it is lack of talent.. the knicks got better, but as broadway put it a while back, so did every other team...
plain and simple from 1-12 the Jazz are more athletic and talented than the knicks.. End of story...
Ahhh yeah the ole "GO GET CHO MONEY MELO" and "IT'S NOT YO MONEY WHY DO YOU CARE" mob chants from fans
The love of fans rooting for their team clouds and distorts their better judgement. They can't think clearly, refuse to think clearly... ultimately follow the path of stubbornness and then in bewilderment pout when the results don't marry with warped expectations.
With the incessant greed from players, the spoiled brat(we can do whatever we want because we're rich mentality, we don't have to make sound decisions from owners), and the tidal wave of enabling from mgmt to coaches it really forces fans to view the game strictly with eyeball test and analytics.
Like all emotions almost have to be detached otherwise you're gonna wind up one miserable human being who had their time and financial resources wasted to no end. Like I don't love the subject I just want to do what it takes to pass the test. This hold fan hostage operation has gone on far too long, bad service is bad service and what right minded customer accepts bad service?
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mafra
Legend
Melo of a few years ago was giving us 28 ppg... I think Affalo's career high is 18 ppg... Aaron was signed to be our second scoring option... We hoped he could consistently give us 14-22 ppg... And we were hoping Melo could at least get us a somewhat efficient 24 ppg...
So, hoping for a combined 35+ on a nightly basis is almost a prerequisite for a NYK win. Expecting 50? Of course not... Then again, the duo is giving us more than 20....
Just employing poetic license to use the 50/20 disparity, rather than type 35/25... The point is dulled if I lean towards a literal statement. I mean, I almost wrote 40... but these 2 cats are normally giving us 30... The gist of it shouldnt be lost in the fact that this duo needs to give us 10-15 more ppg than they are... without stalling the off flow.
But, yeah, our miniscule chance for success this season rested solely on a majority of players posting career years, in terms of production. And this was a far-fetched dream...
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mafra
Legend
I would replace Lopez with Seraphin in the starting lineup. I would also shorten rotation to 9 players. Galloway, Grant, Lopez, Thomas... And would sprinkle in subs and limit minutes to about 18 minutes for these 4.
Let the starters play together and give them minutes to find a rhythm.
I still believe people underestimate how important guard play is... If we had a legit stud at either G spot... We would be a vastly different club... We are basically running the offense thru 2 PFs, who get the ball around the 3-point line... And, on defense, we cannot stop penetration.
No coincidence NYK were good when Billups, Kidd, Lin were in command...
jimkcchief88
All Star
Wow didn't see the game but I didn't have to the board disgust says it all... We KNIcKs fans and the league have done a 180 on the Zinger, but we still needed a PG as this is a guard driven league now, not a stretch 4, PF driven league. It would all be ok if we had our first round pick next year to dip back in a grab a guard but....
I remember suggesting trading Calderon and a 2018 1st rounder for Thaddeus Young before he got to Brooklyn and some wanted my head on a platter for mentioning this more than El Chapo. Which meant we could have and should have pursued a point guard during free agency and not Robin "Oh Hell No" Pez.
Oh well
mafra
Legend
And to think we could've had Rondo for the money we gave to Quinn-Williams... He signed what? A 1 year deal for 9.5 mil?
Rondo went to same HS as Melo... They talk and exchange texts... But he still passed on MSG.
Let this sink in...Kobe went hard after Rondo and Melo supposedly asked mgmt to pursue him 2yrs ago. Maybe Rondo appeared in Melo's glorious Black Book. Nevertheless guess who recruited Rondo the hardest this summer, who Rondo agreed he wanted to play with?
The other Melo=Rudy Gay
mafra
Legend
I hate to second guess things, b/c I wasn't begging NYK to hand Robdo a near-max contract in July... His age, and recent production, then his attitude in DAL threw up red flags for me...
With that said, I don't have access to the man... Melo does. And for him to be more obsessed with off the court ventures... Well, the irony is, his lack of attention to his primary source of his fame... Playing BBall... Hurts his brand.
He obviously did little to recruit even guys he has relationships with.
At least Phil Haslgic behind his failed moves. Melo wanted TC out... Dolan wanted Melo... Phil tried to surround Melo with players that mesh and conliment his selfish ISO style of play. He bent over and catered to this chump... Calderon and Lopez had career track records before they arrived here.
Melo and The Mecca should have been plenty to sell to Rondo. JAX couldn't pitch that... Melo needed to appeal to the ego of that mercurial cat... Recruit and beg RR to come help.
So, yeah... Melo deserves all the blame now. He said so himself when he was first traded here... Time has proven the critics correct... This is why I have little faith Melo will attract free agents this summer. But, if Melo is the true chump his critics aim
He is....methinks Melo is ready to prepare his exit strategy now... And will be gone in 2 months.
With that said, I don't have access to the man... Melo does. And for him to be more obsessed with off the court ventures... Well, the irony is, his lack of attention to his primary source of his fame... Playing BBall... Hurts his brand.
He obviously did little to recruit even guys he has relationships with.
At least Phil Haslgic behind his failed moves. Melo wanted TC out... Dolan wanted Melo... Phil tried to surround Melo with players that mesh and conliment his selfish ISO style of play. He bent over and catered to this chump... Calderon and Lopez had career track records before they arrived here.
Melo and The Mecca should have been plenty to sell to Rondo. JAX couldn't pitch that... Melo needed to appeal to the ego of that mercurial cat... Recruit and beg RR to come help.
So, yeah... Melo deserves all the blame now. He said so himself when he was first traded here... Time has proven the critics correct... This is why I have little faith Melo will attract free agents this summer. But, if Melo is the true chump his critics aim
He is....methinks Melo is ready to prepare his exit strategy now... And will be gone in 2 months.
OR MAYBE the kings offer him a boat load of money and he stays? or better yet, maybe he goes to the lakers, or the nets... SAC is not winning much but they have a lot more talent than the knicks do.. what would make the knicks appealing to him?
Excellent points and an excellent post!!!
I do find this type of behavior prevalent in the NBA, now it happens in all sports but the NBA is full of these types.. The out of this world guaranteed salaries and the enabling of players to do what they want along with these brain dead deep pocket owners has made this league almost hard to stomach. Honestly I watch now to see if any new teams emerge that are fun to watch, and also to see if anyone can beat those damn warriors.. LOL.. other than that my investment in a player or team is at an all time low.
ok even then, that was peak performance from both players, their career averages are not close to 18ppg or 28ppg any more, and honestly they both have reached those numbers a combined 4 times in a total of over 20 years of basketball.. It is unrealistic to think than these two would be anything close to their best ball at this point in their careers, especially for carmelo.. even then, the knicks would still get beat the same way.. Both carmelo and Aflalo play in a vacuum, scoring more points for them doesn't make others better or the team..
mafra
Legend
Fans enable as well... Rondo quite on BOS and DAL last year... Basically wouldnt even try... On the court in a playoff game!!! No idiot fans like myself say: get that guy on my Team.
All you need to say is Eddy Curry...
With these salaries and ESPN... Athletes take narcissim to a new level... Worse in NBA... Bc it is more of an individual game (compared to NFL), and they dont wear helmets (easily reckognizable).
Today's game is barely even bball... Hard to even watch it... Wait until May... Tune in when its 82-80 in the fourth with 8 to play... I think I follow NYK out of habbit now, but I just dont love the sport like I once did. I realize it meant more when I still played the game....but it is hard to watch the game now (especially since Stern robbd the game of its guts and grit by abolishing any brand of physical defense).
mafra
Legend
Carmelo has average 25.7 ppg as a NYK... Affalo's career avg is 12.5 ppg... That's 38 points combined... Hoping amd expecting for a consistent nightly output of 40-50 points was reasonable, especially considering that AA would now be the featured G (and second scoring option)... Sure, it's a reach for the 45-50 mark... But 38-44 ppg was something we were relying on... The reason we are losing boils down to these two not getting it done...
Poor coaching, non-existent bench play, and the JC-RL collapse hurts too...
Melo missed 5 FTs and 2 putback Layups... That's 9 easy points left on the floor...
His knee not fully healed... Lacks lift on his shot... We paid him expecting 25 a game...
We paid Affalo expecting 14-20 ppg...
I couldnt agree more that AA doesnt make people better on offense... But Melo helps bc so much attention is placed on stopping him... There is a reason why Porz has played 90% of his minutes with Melo... If there were no Melo... Porz would find it hard to be so wide open sometimes.
And, last night, Melo set up AA twice in the final minute with beautiful passes... He missed the shot.
Melo, like Kobe, only make it work when they are scoring... And trying to get others involved some. Both are volume shooters tho, and Melo is a combo F with poor ball skills... Low bball IQ... He is a big part of the problem... Obviously nobody is running to play with him... No doubt.
I have been a big Melo supporter... I reserved judgement and gave it time to see what transpired. I now see (and admit) that Melo has been a complete failure here in NY. Enough evidence is in to support that assertion.
But some have been piling on Melo since day 1... Iso this and iso that... Their hunches have proven to be right, but that doesnt mean they should be totally blind to the fact that... Even without meaning to do it... Melo makes it easier for his teammates bc of how we are defended... Even if he isnt passing them the ball. Whi h he did last night... Had 4 assists amd shouldve had 8-10...
Sure, he isnt Bird or Lebron... He isnt a HOF player... His game is to score... Asking him to be a point forward or a passer... That's not his game. Do I like it? No. But, I also wont state that his scoring doesnt help others one iota... Seems like JR is the same player with LJ as he was with CA?
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