Game Thread: New York Knicks vs Toronto Raptors 7:30pm 2/22/2016

Broadway

All Star
Lowry did not want to play for New York!!!!!
what part of that dont u understand?
Lowry didnt want to play for the Raptors until they threaten to send him to New York.


Naaaaaah Lowry spoke on this recently, although he had some concerns he said he thought the deal was done and in the end felt good enough knowing he could go to a place that wanted him. Phil was consulting Dolan(helped him step in last minute) on winning this trade through the media instead of doing maybe what was best for the team.


http://dailyknicks.com/2016/02/13/k...hought-he-was-going-to-be-traded-to-new-york/
 
Are u blind? u dont see the same from Porzingis each game?
Dont tell me all u watch is Porzingis scoring, and pay no attention to his misses, or his poor position on defense to be 7.3

C'mon, Porzingis is 20 and clearly the future of this franchise, whether you like his game right now or not. Jimmer turns 27 in 3 days and is just waiting for someone to officially tell him that his dream of being a rotation player in the NBA is over.
 

mafra

Legend
The trade was nixed early DEC... Not sure when this party was, but all that is simply conjecture. Just like these initial reports:

"However, Wojnarowski also said the Knicks were hesitant to include the pick, mainly because Dolan didn't want to be "bamboozled" once again by Ujiri. The new Raptors GM negotiated the Carmelo Anthony trade with the Denver Nuggets that net a huge return for the Nuggets, while he also was able to extract valuable assets for Andrea Bargnani this past offseason.

Isola's report lends more credence to this, with his source saying Dolan "didn't want to get fleeced again" and that a deal was ready to go before the owner nixed it. Dolan was also reportedly upset that details of the proposed deal went public."

I don't claim to be a student of NBA front office politics, as you state, but I do know that the above article sounds just like the paranoid maniac Dolan...

He got fleeced twice by Ujiri -- Melo and Bargnani trades - and wasn't about to let the guy take another 1st round pick. Dolan is fanatical about media perception, and just knowing that the PR blasted him for those previous deals really miffed the billionaire.

Dolan wanted a roman triumph down the canyon of heroes for bringing Melo to town... This is why "he took over the negotiotians" and why he let that be known in public. He was perturbed when the perception shifted and he got roasted for being played like a fiddle.

We both have our own opinion on how this trade was scuttled. To act like only your POV is the correct interpretation is... well... What more can be said if you are that rigid in your belief on this particular issue here.

I mean... What was the first thing Phil did when he was officially running this team? He dealt for a PG. JAX obviously identitied that as a major need.

what's he going to say about his only young assets - Shump and THjr? They stink? He's trying to build up their value.

As for not wanting to deal the 2018 1st rounder. Show me what was offered? If WAS dangled Nene and Phil said that 1st rounder is off the table... What does that mean? We didn't want trash for a future asset? Show me what offers we turned down and we can discuss.

Not saying Phil has been good or many of his moves worked out... But Walsh is why this team is a mess... More so than PJ... What phil is doing now may doom us until 2025... But that remains to be seen.
 

T.O Knick

Benchwarmer
Ujiri forever the Knicks daddy.

If Knicks owner was not sycophantic star fooker he would have focused on acquiring an elite GM. Ujiri reputation as one the best up and coming GMs in the NBA was no secret. Instead of pimping ourselves out for Melo Knicks should have went all out for Ujiri.

This clown owner star fooking mentality will forever ruin this organization.

On bright side at least Knicks chances of getting high draft pick increasing..Oh wait Ujiri hoodwinked Knicks out of that pick as well
 
Last edited:
Ujiri forever the Knicks daddy.

If Knicks owner was not sycophantic star fooker he would have focused on acquiring an elite GM. Ujiri reputation as one the best up and coming GMs in the NBA was no secret. Instead of pimping ourselves out for Melo Knicks should have went all out for Ujiri.

This clown owner star fooking mentality will forever ruin this organization.

On bright side at least Knicks chances of getting high draft pick increasing..Oh wait Ujiri hoodwinked Knicks out of that pick as well

It's the ultimate irony of this franchise. Being the biggest market has never seemed to help us attract free agents, but our franchise seems forever fixated on that. However, our big bucks owner could have for his money a top GM, top head coach, top medical staff, top everything if he was willing to give the huge dollars he has given for a PR splash instead to the top people currently doing that job elsewhere.
 

mafra

Legend
"?We got to want to do it. We got to want to be out there, we got to want to play, we got to want to compete,? he said. ?I don?t think it has anything to do with X?s and O?s. We got to take it upon ourselves individually to take a challenge. We can?t beat nobody allowing (58) points in the paint. Impossible.?

?I need to go home and just relax,? he said. ?Decompress a little bit.

?Regardless of the record. It?s the losing. It?s hard to accept that.?


In the final ticks of the third quarter, Anthony threw a pass picked off by DeMar DeRozan, who flew in for a fast-break dunk with 0.5 seconds left. Anthony didn?t look up and just started trudging dejectedly off the court, even with time left on the clock.

That summed it up: a Knicks team that looks ready to quit at 24-34, losers of 12 of its past 14.

?Regardless of the record, just losing, accepting that,?? Anthony said. ?It?s hard to accept that. You can?t be accepting that. I hope that?s not the case with the guys. You don?t want to get used to losing.??

Anthony was reminded Sunday was the five-year anniversary of his trade to New York, and he?s played for four coaches and with 70-plus teammates.

?It?s a lot ? a lot to go through,?? Anthony said. ?It?s been tough. It?s challenging, but you got to stay strong and positive.??

Toronto?s All-Star backcourt lived up to its status as DeRozan scored 22 points and Kyle Lowry, in destroying overmatched Jose Calderon, notched a triple-double ? 22 points, 11 assists and 11 rebounds. Calderon went scoreless ? 0-for-2 with two turnovers.

?We couldn?t find a way to stop them in a half-court defense,?? said Rambis, who fell to 1-3 since taking over. ?We can?t stop the ball. A big part of our communication and second efforts disappeared in this ballgame.??

Anthony finished with 23 points, 11 rebounds and five assists but had three turnovers and missed four free throws. In another momentum-killer, Anthony bounced the ball off his foot on a drive, leading to a Cory Joseph fast-break layup and 84-64 Toronto lead.

The boos were loud in the final minutes of the first half as the Knicks started to embarrass themselves. Anthony bricked two straight free throws. Kyle O?Quinn did the same. Calderon threw away a backcourt pass to free-agent-to-be DeRozan for a fast-break dunk ? drawing the largest jeers of the night.

It was so bad the mild-mannered Porzingis picked up a technical foul with 4:24 left. Porzingis had an invisible night until the fourth quarter, when he came alive too late. He finished with 17 points but just two rebounds ? his interior defense getting worse, his activity level declining in February.

?Not a positive moment in the season,?? Porzingis said.



So you get an idea how rookie Jerian Grant feels as a reserve Knicks point guard. The Knicks need him to know and master the position but have him learning on the bench, even if the best way to do it is by, well, doing it.

?It?s definitely tough,? Grant said before the Knicks were trounced 122-95 by Toronto at the Garden on Monday. ?I feel the best way to learn is to be out there playing, playing through mistakes, learning, getting a feel for it. But they are doing a better job with me of showing me film, doing a lot of talking to me, explaining things. That helps, but the best way is definitely to be on the court.?

After sitting two of the first three games under interim coach Kurt Rambis, Grant was summoned for a garbage-time fourth quarter with the Knicks down 18. Grant, the 19th pick in last June?s draft, quickly made a few good things happen. He hit a 3-pointer, assisted on three of the Knicks? next five baskets and got to the line once. He played the fourth quarter and finished with nine points and four assists.

?All players are going to learn from being out there ? but it?s my balance as a coach to try and put players out there who I feel have the experience and knowledge to help us win,? Rambis said. ?But also to try and get him as much time as possible to allow that growth process to happen. I have him sitting next to [assistant] Jim Cleamons on the bench who played in this league and understands this system well and he communicates with him.

?We?re going to watch video tape with him more ? so he can get a visual of what?s happening out there so he can make better decisions.?

Grant understands and accepts all that. But being a pro player, especially a 23-year-old pro player, doesn?t make the process easier. Hey, he got an entire quarter Monday. So what if it came in garbage time?

All part of the growth process. It will come. And one guy who wants to remind Grant of that is Toronto All-Star starter Kyle Lowry, who while stressing he has not seen a lot of Grant so far, likes what he has seen.

?You tell him be patient,? Lowry said. ?Understand there will be trials and tribulations. But one thing you can do is find your niche, and his niche is playing hard, driving the basketball, creating contact, getting to the free-throw line from what I?ve seen. Now, I haven?t seen too many games, but I?ve played against him. So find a niche, get comfortable, but never settle. ? Always continue to grow.?

Rambis admitted speed tops the strengths in Grant?s game. But so far, Grant?s speed has been both a blessing and a curse.

?I like it when he uses his jets, and he doesn?t use them all the time,? Rambis said. ?He?s got terrific speed, and we?re encouraging him to use that speed. But with that speed, you?ve got to be under control so you can make quality decisions.?

And earn playing time.


----//

After the game...DeRozan credited Calderon for teaching him how to be a NBA player and all that.
 
Last edited:

The Dragon

Benchwarmer
why are we still starting Calderon? and what the hell happened to Aron? one game he is good then 10 games he is a ghost? when last the knicks had a decent guard? can't we get just a decent one? not an all star, just a normal decent guard?? is that so hard?
 

paris401

Starter
a couple of things..
A-swallow - he is waaay streaky... you will not get very far with this type of player
Calderon - the only word that comes to mind is...old...
KP... I said in the beginning of the year that after 20-25games, his production will fall.. either by injury... or the pounding from the forwards he is facing every game... Kris... you aint playin in spain anymore...
Me-Lo.. what can you say.. he gets 20+ points, 5-6-7 boards, 1/2 dozen assists every nite, and the team still blows... on most nites he has little help, yet he doesn't make the team around him better.
Lopez... on 'some' nites, he better then I thought he would be...on other nites....

maybe phil 'has-a-plan'... I'm not smart enough to figure out what that plan is... this year is a lost year, and with no 1st rounder, unless phil can conjure up some pixie dust over the summer, next years squad will look a lot like what we are seeing nite after nite this year... except Me-Lo will be a year older

but phil must have a plan... afterall he is being paid a lot of coin to bring us a winner... he must have a plan..'Mustin-he'????
 

Tkf

Benchwarmer
a couple of things..
A-swallow - he is waaay streaky... you will not get very far with this type of player
Calderon - the only word that comes to mind is...old...
KP... I said in the beginning of the year that after 20-25games, his production will fall.. either by injury... or the pounding from the forwards he is facing every game... Kris... you aint playin in spain anymore...
Me-Lo.. what can you say.. he gets 20+ points, 5-6-7 boards, 1/2 dozen assists every nite, and the team still blows... on most nites he has little help, yet he doesn't make the team around him better.
Lopez... on 'some' nites, he better then I thought he would be...on other nites....

maybe phil 'has-a-plan'... I'm not smart enough to figure out what that plan is... this year is a lost year, and with no 1st rounder, unless phil can conjure up some pixie dust over the summer, next years squad will look a lot like what we are seeing nite after nite this year... except Me-Lo will be a year older

but phil must have a plan... afterall he is being paid a lot of coin to bring us a winner... he must have a plan..'Mustin-he'????

at some point the knicks are going to have to do a proper rebuild. I said this and have been saying this for almost 8 years now... the best chance they had is when we had amare and the kids.. gallo, chandler, cap space and our picks... after that it has been a disaster and even when we had a chance to correct our path with the melo opt out, we screw that up, but even before then, deals like the one to get bargnani, just highlight how mismanaged this franchise has been.. At some point it has to stop!
 

Tkf

Benchwarmer
Are u blind? u dont see the same from Porzingis each game?
Dont tell me all u watch is Porzingis scoring, and pay no attention to his misses, or his poor position on defense to be 7.3

I understand you want to see what guys like jimmer has, but the league has seen enough of him to know that he probably isn't an NBA point guard, but what I do want to see is a heavy dose of Grant

As far as porzingis, I don't hate the kid at all, just don't think he is what the knicks needed.. Knicks needed a PG or some kind of dynamic wing player.. porzingis is a project. I think his fast start got everyone a bit excited, but I am just not a huge fan of 7 foot plus guys who can't score in the paint... that is a problem. Knicks didn't need a project after giving carmelo a new contract and signing veterans in the offseason...
 

Tkf

Benchwarmer
And since I'm getting a chuckle from the ESPN Rosen article check this doosy again from Phil....(face it guys this job is way above his head). I can run this team better than him, seriously





#ELOHEL

lol, change of direction dribble? I mean we are talking about a 7footer here, right? LOL. I mean come on.. The success dirk has had really messed up a lot of these euro big men... haha
 

Tkf

Benchwarmer
KP is the only big out there. Where should he be, under the basket. Where is he, the 3 pt line at the top of the key. He's made some shots but when Rolo is not on the floor, he should be in same spots Rolo would be in.

that is not his game.. he is a jump shooter..and so far pretty average at that.. knicks fans knew this, and most of all knicks management knew this..
 

Tkf

Benchwarmer
Jordan Hill's Pacers has a 30 -26 record from team-performance.
Derozan became a winner from having Lowry leadership guide the Raptors roster.
Our front office has been hiring puppet head coaches for several decades ..
Pat Riley Quit because he was going to play who he want to play.
JVG Quit because Ewing wasnt there to let him play who he wanted to play.
Our upstairs front office does all the substitution coaching
Because no common-sense head coach would do some of the stupid-sh our decades of ex-coaches did


you make sense here, because when we did get a coach who wasn't having it..(larry brown) dolan ran him out of town and paid him his 40 mil.... any coach with a brain would stay away from the knicks..
 

mafra

Legend
at some point the knicks are going to have to do a proper rebuild. I said this and have been saying this for almost 8 years now... the best chance they had is when we had amare and the kids.. gallo, chandler, cap space and our picks... after that it has been a disaster and even when we had a chance to correct our path with the melo opt out, we screw that up, but even before then, deals like the one to get bargnani, just highlight how mismanaged this franchise has been.. At some point it has to stop!

I couldn't agree more... If we would've gone with scrubs and stunk the first 2 years of Walsh-Dantoni era... We have Westebook-Curry-green right now... Who needs Lebron!

If we took DeRozan over Hill and never dealt for Melo, but dealt for Lowry... We would be better now.

Now we have JG and KP. I'm glad we kept our 2018 pick. Now it's time to rebuild. I will give them a shot... Chase a Durant, Rondo, Conley, whatever. When we fail to grab them... Do not settle and overpay for other options. Trade ROLO and Melo and get picks and young assets... Rebuild!

Just like how Cavs dealt Wiggins for Love. No way we can go into next season with Melo unless he is option#3. If we fail to get help... Make that CLE-BOS-NYK trade happen.
 

mafra

Legend
Interim head coach Kurt Rambis hinted that he's been considering sending Jose Calderon to the bench.
Calderon's play has fallen off significantly over the past month, as he's only managed to produce meager averages of 6.4 points, 3.8 assists and 1.0 three-pointer per game on 41.2 percent shooting from the field, and it sounds like Rambis would like to be getting more from his starting point guard. Langston Galloway and Jerian Grant are candidates to enter the starting five, with Galloway being the most likely option. Calderon hasn't been worth owning as a starter, and his value will only get worse with the demotion to the second-unit, so there's little reason to hold on to him in most settings.
 
Top