I just don?t get it. Green makes 15 million a year, is late in his career, and provides something that you could get much cheaper from a lot of role players. Anyone who trades picks for Green must know something that I don?t.
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I just don?t get it. Green makes 15 million a year, is late in his career, and provides something that you could get much cheaper from a lot of role players. Anyone who trades picks for Green must know something that I don?t.
Here's Hollinger's article.
Give the Lakers credit: They’re not resting on their laurels.
With one championship in the bag, the Lakers are still moving forward to address perceived weaknesses and steel themselves for a run at a back-to-back. Whatever else you think of the reportedly agreed-on trade of Danny Green and the 28thpick in the draft for Dennis Schr?der, let’s at least acknowledge that.
As far as the actual execution of the trade they made to do this … ehhh. I have some questions.
At a base level, I get it. The Lakers were likely to lose Rajon Rondo to free agency or face a situation where keeping him would have required going into exception money. That money could otherwise be used on players who are likely to be quite a bit better next season than Rondo.
Also, even with Rondo, L.A. had a clear issue with its lack of secondary shot creators, one that became particularly apparent any time LeBron James checked out of the game. Schr?der has his share of weaknesses, but shot-creation ain’t one of them. His 27.2 Usage Rate actually led the Thunder last season, and late-game situations often saw the ball in his hands. Particularly in the high-leverage playoff situations where the Lakers expect to find themselves, perimeter shot-creation matters. In contrast, last season the Lakers didn’t have any player other than James and Anthony Davis with a playoff Usage Rate above 20.
Finding those creators is justifiably difficult, especially when you don’t have a ton of assets to use as chips for the shopping. Danny Green was the only plausible matching contract L.A. had lying around, and the 28th pick is not an unreasonable price to pay for a full year of his services before his contract expires (and Bird Rights afterward). Consider that the pick just before, number 27, was dealt in February for Marcus Morris’s expiring contract by a Clipper team in a similar situation.
Meanwhile, one presumes Green’s 3-and-D game was seen as more replaceable by the Lakers’ brass. Green played 25 minutes per game in L.A.’s playoff run – barely half the game, in other words – as Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Alex Caruso often proved just as useful. And if Avery Bradley, who sat out the bubble, is back next year, that’s another wing to compete for minutes with Green.
Incidentally, this trade is amazing news if you’re Caldwell-Pope. The Lakers now will almost certainly need to use Bird Rights to retain him in free agency. Cha. Ching.
Finally, to the extent long-term considerations matter for a team in the Lakers’ position, trading Green for Schr?der is helpful. The Lakers will never, ever be a cap room team with James and Davis on max deals, which makes it more imperative to use Bird Rights to retain players. Retaining the 27-year-old Schr?der after this season is likely a much better investment than the 33-year-old Green.
However, the Lakers left money on the table, and you can see why once you look at this deal from the Thunder’s perspective. For OKC, this is an absolute no-brainer, as harvesting a late first-round pick for a non-All-Star with an expiring contract is about the best-case scenario.
Additionally, the Thunder will gain more draft equity out of this later. At some point, the rebuilding Thunder will almost certainly trade Green, too. He may not be worth a first-round pick, but he surely could command two decent seconds. Can you imagine him in Philadelphia? Milwaukee? Atlanta? The Thunder should be able to drive a pretty good bargain here.
In the meantime, there’s the little issue of Green projecting as a more valuable player than Schr?der. Ignoring the specific situational need for L.A. that I presented above, BORG projects Green to be 2.73 points per 100 possessions better than replacement in 2020-21, compared to 1.78 for Schr?der. The reason is simple: Green is just a massively better defender.
Also, secondarily, Schr?der comes off what is by far the best season of his career, and one that was built in part on outlier 3-point shooting relative to the rest of his career. One should be at least somewhat skeptical that he can play another season at quite his 2019-20 level.
Finally, to the extent the Thunder are actually trying to win games this season, this deal clearly helps them. For as long as Green plays for the Thunder, he fits much better as a 3-and-D guard next to Chris Paul and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander than Schr?der did.
From the Thunder’s perspective, then, this is a scream of a deal. They get a better player and a first-round pick and still will be able to convert Green into more draft equity sooner or later. In the meantime, now owning picks Nos. 25 and 28 in the first round, the Thunder are in a prime position to move up in the draft should an opportunity present itself.
Which takes us back to the Lakers. The important part of this deal for Oklahoma City was getting a first for Schr?der, not acquiring a 33-year-old Danny Green. Green had to be in the deal because it was the Lakers’ only plausible matching contract, but they could have done some advance work here and come out of this considerably better.
Most obviously, the Lakers could have done the same deal the Thunder did but with Green, by canvassing the league to deal him for expiring contracts and draft equity (likely second-round picks, as noted above). I don’t know what Green’s trade value was, but I have a hard time believing it was zero. Having taken that first step, the Lakers then could have rerouted those expirings and the 28th pick to Oklahoma City in a three-team deal.
Instead, the Lakers let the Thunder win this trade twice: First, by turning Schr?der into a late first, and then a second time when the Thunder inevitably trade Green. Additionally, the Lakers could have controlled Green’s ultimate destination and made sure he landed in the Eastern Conference. Now, it’s out of their hands. He could be a Clipper or Warrior before Thanksgiving; in particular, Green’s salary slots right into that giant trade exception the Warriors have.
We weren’t tapping the Lakers’ phone calls, so it’s possible the Lakers tried and nobody was ready to deal yet. The date of the draft certainly provided a hard timeline for completing this. Nonetheless, they got this done so early that circumstantial evidence would tell you the answer. Most likely, L.A wasn’t blowing up the phone lines exhausting this opportunity before diving into a Schr?der deal.
No, this isn’t the end of the world, particularly when you have James and Davis on your side. The Lakers saw an opportunity to attack a weakness that can prove difficult to fill, the cost was reasonable (we all get excited on draft day, but historically the 28th pick busts nearly two-thirds of the time), and they got six years younger on the exchange. One can still lament that they failed to optimize the situation by turning Green into something first.
Related Reading
• Grading the trade for both teams
• What will Schr?der bring to the Lakers?
(Photo: Alonzo Adams/USA TODAY Sports)
Give the Lakers credit: They’re not resting on their laurels.
With one championship in the bag, the Lakers are still moving forward to address perceived weaknesses and steel themselves for a run at a back-to-back. Whatever else you think of the reportedly agreed-on trade of Danny Green and the 28thpick in the draft for Dennis Schr?der, let’s at least acknowledge that.
As far as the actual execution of the trade they made to do this … ehhh. I have some questions.
At a base level, I get it. The Lakers were likely to lose Rajon Rondo to free agency or face a situation where keeping him would have required going into exception money. That money could otherwise be used on players who are likely to be quite a bit better next season than Rondo.
Also, even with Rondo, L.A. had a clear issue with its lack of secondary shot creators, one that became particularly apparent any time LeBron James checked out of the game. Schr?der has his share of weaknesses, but shot-creation ain’t one of them. His 27.2 Usage Rate actually led the Thunder last season, and late-game situations often saw the ball in his hands. Particularly in the high-leverage playoff situations where the Lakers expect to find themselves, perimeter shot-creation matters. In contrast, last season the Lakers didn’t have any player other than James and Anthony Davis with a playoff Usage Rate above 20.
Finding those creators is justifiably difficult, especially when you don’t have a ton of assets to use as chips for the shopping. Danny Green was the only plausible matching contract L.A. had lying around, and the 28th pick is not an unreasonable price to pay for a full year of his services before his contract expires (and Bird Rights afterward). Consider that the pick just before, number 27, was dealt in February for Marcus Morris’s expiring contract by a Clipper team in a similar situation.
Meanwhile, one presumes Green’s 3-and-D game was seen as more replaceable by the Lakers’ brass. Green played 25 minutes per game in L.A.’s playoff run – barely half the game, in other words – as Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Alex Caruso often proved just as useful. And if Avery Bradley, who sat out the bubble, is back next year, that’s another wing to compete for minutes with Green.
Incidentally, this trade is amazing news if you’re Caldwell-Pope. The Lakers now will almost certainly need to use Bird Rights to retain him in free agency. Cha. Ching.
Finally, to the extent long-term considerations matter for a team in the Lakers’ position, trading Green for Schr?der is helpful. The Lakers will never, ever be a cap room team with James and Davis on max deals, which makes it more imperative to use Bird Rights to retain players. Retaining the 27-year-old Schr?der after this season is likely a much better investment than the 33-year-old Green.
However, the Lakers left money on the table, and you can see why once you look at this deal from the Thunder’s perspective. For OKC, this is an absolute no-brainer, as harvesting a late first-round pick for a non-All-Star with an expiring contract is about the best-case scenario.
Additionally, the Thunder will gain more draft equity out of this later. At some point, the rebuilding Thunder will almost certainly trade Green, too. He may not be worth a first-round pick, but he surely could command two decent seconds. Can you imagine him in Philadelphia? Milwaukee? Atlanta? The Thunder should be able to drive a pretty good bargain here.
In the meantime, there’s the little issue of Green projecting as a more valuable player than Schr?der. Ignoring the specific situational need for L.A. that I presented above, BORG projects Green to be 2.73 points per 100 possessions better than replacement in 2020-21, compared to 1.78 for Schr?der. The reason is simple: Green is just a massively better defender.
Also, secondarily, Schr?der comes off what is by far the best season of his career, and one that was built in part on outlier 3-point shooting relative to the rest of his career. One should be at least somewhat skeptical that he can play another season at quite his 2019-20 level.
Finally, to the extent the Thunder are actually trying to win games this season, this deal clearly helps them. For as long as Green plays for the Thunder, he fits much better as a 3-and-D guard next to Chris Paul and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander than Schr?der did.
From the Thunder’s perspective, then, this is a scream of a deal. They get a better player and a first-round pick and still will be able to convert Green into more draft equity sooner or later. In the meantime, now owning picks Nos. 25 and 28 in the first round, the Thunder are in a prime position to move up in the draft should an opportunity present itself.
Which takes us back to the Lakers. The important part of this deal for Oklahoma City was getting a first for Schr?der, not acquiring a 33-year-old Danny Green. Green had to be in the deal because it was the Lakers’ only plausible matching contract, but they could have done some advance work here and come out of this considerably better.
Most obviously, the Lakers could have done the same deal the Thunder did but with Green, by canvassing the league to deal him for expiring contracts and draft equity (likely second-round picks, as noted above). I don’t know what Green’s trade value was, but I have a hard time believing it was zero. Having taken that first step, the Lakers then could have rerouted those expirings and the 28th pick to Oklahoma City in a three-team deal.
Instead, the Lakers let the Thunder win this trade twice: First, by turning Schr?der into a late first, and then a second time when the Thunder inevitably trade Green. Additionally, the Lakers could have controlled Green’s ultimate destination and made sure he landed in the Eastern Conference. Now, it’s out of their hands. He could be a Clipper or Warrior before Thanksgiving; in particular, Green’s salary slots right into that giant trade exception the Warriors have.
We weren’t tapping the Lakers’ phone calls, so it’s possible the Lakers tried and nobody was ready to deal yet. The date of the draft certainly provided a hard timeline for completing this. Nonetheless, they got this done so early that circumstantial evidence would tell you the answer. Most likely, L.A wasn’t blowing up the phone lines exhausting this opportunity before diving into a Schr?der deal.
No, this isn’t the end of the world, particularly when you have James and Davis on your side. The Lakers saw an opportunity to attack a weakness that can prove difficult to fill, the cost was reasonable (we all get excited on draft day, but historically the 28th pick busts nearly two-thirds of the time), and they got six years younger on the exchange. One can still lament that they failed to optimize the situation by turning Green into something first.
Related Reading
• Grading the trade for both teams
• What will Schr?der bring to the Lakers?
(Photo: Alonzo Adams/USA TODAY Sports)
Russ watch in play. Presti with another deal of an albatross contract that no one thought he could do and he got a 1st round pick. Nader was included in the deal, I suggested getting another Rox player in a Russ deal, maybe that's what it takes to get it done.
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NO got a ton of assets for Jrue. I still expect Harden or Russ or both to be moved but this may set the bar for what it takes to get either player.
Milwaukee sent three first-round picks, two pick swaps AND Eric Bledsoe and George Hill to the Pelicans for Holiday, who is entering the final year of his contract.
Milwaukee sent three first-round picks, two pick swaps AND Eric Bledsoe and George Hill to the Pelicans for Holiday, who is entering the final year of his contract.
mafra
Legend
HOU won?t be getting anything for RW. They?ll have to either trade trash for trash (Wall for RW) or will have to attach picks to salary dump RW somewhere.
Who will trade anything for Westbrook at this point? Oh, and how many teams can take back that contract? Maybe DET can send Blake?
NYK won?t send them anything unless it?s a dump.
Who will trade anything for Westbrook at this point? Oh, and how many teams can take back that contract? Maybe DET can send Blake?
NYK won?t send them anything unless it?s a dump.
Harden turned down a 2 yr 103M extension that would have made him the first 50M man in the NBA. That’s a pretty serious sign that a guy doesn’t want to be there, with Morey now with the Sixers they have the assets and the guy that can swing a deal for him. Tobias Harris, Simmons, maybe a couple of picks would be a deal I could see getting done.
Terence Ferguson included in the deal. When you make a mistake like the Sixers did with Horford you have to pay for it. Presti collecting picks like Ainge did when he broke up the big 3.
Wow! u dont know bout Danny Green who played a lot of youth ball at Bayshore YMCA in long Island .... Shame on you! I'm from ENY Brooklyn, and I watched Danny Green play several games in his youth.
Danny Green from a town called Copeg lol in Suffolk county NY. between Amityville & Babylon.
Knicks should've went after Covington .. Philly was stupid trading Covington to the West coast for a quick fix that couldn't get pass the first round. They deserve Morey SMH
mafra
Legend
Fred VanVleet has agreed to return to the Raptors on a four-year, $85 million deal.
SOURCE: Shams Charania on Twitter
Nov 21, 2020, 12:18 PM ET
UM got him for a little more than what WAS gave Bertrans. Excellent signing. FVV smart not to come to NYK.
I think what we found out, all the talk about Rose and WWW... nobody is changing the culture here at MSG. Free agents don?t want to come play for the Knicks.
Suck up another 20 win season and hope we develop the kids and hit lottery gold next year. Help isn?t walking thru the door and I am not going to be sold another ?next summer?s free agent savior we will target?.
What did we do with our cap space? 1/4 went to Davis/Burks and now we will pay the underwear cowboy or something 20 mil just to hit the floor.
SOURCE: Shams Charania on Twitter
Nov 21, 2020, 12:18 PM ET
UM got him for a little more than what WAS gave Bertrans. Excellent signing. FVV smart not to come to NYK.
I think what we found out, all the talk about Rose and WWW... nobody is changing the culture here at MSG. Free agents don?t want to come play for the Knicks.
Suck up another 20 win season and hope we develop the kids and hit lottery gold next year. Help isn?t walking thru the door and I am not going to be sold another ?next summer?s free agent savior we will target?.
What did we do with our cap space? 1/4 went to Davis/Burks and now we will pay the underwear cowboy or something 20 mil just to hit the floor.