Game Thread: New York Knicks vs Phoenix Suns 7:30 pm 1/21/2017 [Game#45]

Broadway

All Star
Phoenix Suns, 3rd worst record in the NBA, tanking the heck out of this season... show up at the Garden and steal a win. That's how patheric we are right now.

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Broadway

All Star
Hornacek interesting closing post game comment below

"WE WON OUR CLOSE GAMES EARLIER IN THE YR BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE NOT. IT'S AN 82gm SEASON AND USUALLY IT WILL EVEN OUT AND WE'LL WIN ABOUT HALF OF THEM OR AT LEAST WE HOPE BUT IT'S A BAD STRETCH FOR US RIGHT NOW"

This comment came close when questioning about officiating(on a couple occasions tonight)
 

and1

Rotation player
maybe if they stopped leaving good 3 point shooters wide open beyond the arc? that might be a good place to start. how many 3s did porter hit the other night? how many of those was he wide open when he caught the ball? most of them? how many times has that happened all year long? let's try not leaving those guys wide open.
 

mafra

Legend
First of all, just to get it out of the way, once again NYK get raw end of deal with "end-of-game" officiating. For those refs to call a foul on Lee with 90 seconds left and NY up 3, giving Booker 2 free throws, then to ignore Bledsoe's contact (and hand in back) on Rose is just a terribly atrocious and inconsistent way to impact angame with the whistle. NY has every right to be annoyed. Rose is a star player (albeit more formerly), but evenso.... he was fantastic in this game and is on his home floor, and you just sent a young kid to the line with far less contact.

At one point, it was something like 20 FTs for PHO to 2 for NY. Again, this is a game played at MSG vs a bottom-feeding opponent. PHO was playing uber-aggressive and not giving NY space all night. Heck, they called a foul on WHG when TC hacked down on his arm.

With that said, every NY fan watching this game just knew they were going to find a way to lose it.... especially when they failed with 3 chances to extend lead to 7 down the stretch.

A shame to have to point this out, but this loss is on Melo. He's supposed to be the closer and fact is he can't score in the 4th.... he's just too old now and has nothing left at the end of these games. A shame too bc he was brilliant.

No shocker he missed another game winner.... he rarely gets the ball in a good spot on these situations.... what offensive play on this planet says catch ball near half court, back to basket, and chuck a 33-footer? Bad play design by Hornachek.

And finally, the coach was the biggest factor in this loss. Awful. Why he stuck with Noah and BJ when they clearly weren't doing much. For him to not play KOQ or WHG all that much.... or even Holiday. Subbing KP back in was a bad move too. Aftter Melo and Rose both aired a shot, the Knicks didn't need that 35-ft hoisted brick KP chucked up there, all cold after sitting so long.

Blame the coach for his rotation and his overall pathetic body language all night, blame the MIA Melo in the 4th, and point to the refs for sealing the deal by giving PHo 2 points and letting them play physical While calling touch foul on NY.

With that said, Rose and Melo were putting on a show tonight. Too bad we just are too inexperienced playing together and in a funk right now add can't break this losing mentality, and too bad every game the refs stick it to NY down the stretch of these games....

Trade deadline and lottery can't get here soon enough.
 

mafra

Legend
Drose misses a layup on a good challenge by Bledsoe. Booker misses a short jumper and the Knicks have 7 seconds in the last possession.

Knicks in bound the ball on their end and Melo takes the last shot a 3 pter from the right elbow. It rims out, as close to going in as you can get but its a miss and the Knicks lose another heart breaker. It will be a miracle after this if they can turn this around. Melo looked dejected walking off the floor.

5-16 last 21.... they ain't turning this around. Sure, we'll keep hearing how they're only a few out of the 8th seed.... until one day when they are more like 7-10 back of that final spot.... then, with about 15 games left,
NY will roll out a 11-3 stretch just to
Hinder their lottery odds.

Anyway, NY finally have some good, young ballers and it's time to appreciate how incredibly gifted Rose and Melo are as scorers (bc both will be goon soon enough).... the weight of trying to win in NY is just crushing them both, and they just aren't the type of players to elevate the franchise.... simply, both are just phenomenal scorers.... that's it.

Rose will be dealt or will leave I'm free agency and we'll certainly miss watching a guard who can penetrate at will.... Melo will opt out and walk after 2018....

Hoping for lottery picks and waiting for 2019 when WHG, Baker, KP, KOQ, Holiday, Kuz are the heart of this team.... with 2 high draft picks (and maybe some other asset).... this is allowing me to enjoy watching Melo and Rose for what they are (knowing we won't see such prolithic gifts for some time after they are gone).

I really look forward to what this team can be come 2019.... we just need to surround KP with players. I think WHG will be an absolute force in the paint. I think a lethal sniper and a win player like that Tucker would be ideal. Question is: can we find a PG?

Rubio anybody? The perfect PG for thisbteam, no?
 

mafra

Legend
BTW, what a screen set by Baker to free up Melo. That turned a bleak scenario into a viable option. Of course Melo missed it, but what a play. Baker played the entire 4th and his defense helped spark something.

It's just too much wear on the treads to allow 30 in the first every game.... 90 thru 3.... once again, even tho they hold opponent to 17 in the fourth.... just not enough.
 

mafra

Legend
Biggest smile on JH's face came after the Melo miss. He knows this team has zero chance doing anything this year with CLE & TOR in the way.... he understands best thing moving forward is a lottery pick.

Going to be interesting to see what this team does at trade deadline. If they don't trade a bunch of vets, I can see them deciding to move forward with Rose.... they could use stretch in noah and give Rose a 4 year 100 mil type deal. I'm not advocating it.... but clearly Rose will be one of the premiere free agent guards. A little continuity might help.
 

mafra

Legend
If you think NY got robbed tonight, go see what happened to SAC....

Tie game and Wade steals ball and misses the dunk. SAC starts to go the other way.... somehow play is stopped, then reviewed, and they call a foul and Wade gets free throws. He missed a dunk and nobody touched him
or came close to touching him. Cousins comments afterwards are priceless.
 

mafra

Legend
With 15.7 seconds in regulation and the game tied at 99-99, Bulls guard Dwyane Wade stole the ball from Kings forward Garrett Temple and raced down the floor. Wade appeared to have an open dunk but missed it, and the Kings took the ball and ran back down the floor with a three-on-one fast break.

But referee Michael Smith blew his whistle under the basket and called a foul on Cousins, who had been trailing the play. Replays showed Cousins lightly putting his hand on Wade's back, but not in a manner that would have altered his dunk attempt.

Cousins and the rest of the Kings' bench were incensed at the call.

After the game ended, Cousins, who has a long history of losing his cool toward officials and opponents, used a different tactic in his remarks to the assembled media.

"I think they made the absolute right call," said Cousins, who finished with 42 points, going 16-for-28 from the field, while adding 14 rebounds and three assists. "Incredible job by the referee crew tonight. I don't have a complaint in the world. I think they should get more recognition on how well they ref these games. I don't think they get the credit they deserve. So kudos to them and I applaud them."

Then Cousins started clapping as he sat at his locker.

When a reporter continued the sarcastic tone of Cousins' comments by noting that officials seem to make "a lot of right calls" regarding Cousins, the All-Star kept going.

"All the time," Cousins said. "They controlled the game perfectly tonight. I don't have a complaint. Absolute great job."

Cousins' comments came after a longer than usual cooling-off period after the game. Reporters waited longer than normal to get into the Kings' locker room. Cousins angrily gestured toward officials on his way off the floor and was seen by several bystanders tossing garbage cans on the way back to the Kings' locker room.

Cousins said he never got an explanation from officials for the call.

"When they went to review it, they said they didn't see it. They were just checking for the clock," Cousins said, referring to a timing issue the officials checked in the immediate aftermath of the play. "I don't really understand how that's possible. Like I said, they made the right call, so it's all good."

Kings head coach Dave Joerger didn't want to dive deeply into what the Kings thought was a missed call. When asked if he thought Cousins fouled Wade, Joerger was brief in his remarks.

"I've seen the video so ..." Joerger said.

When asked what he saw from his vantage point during the play, Joerger noted that the Kings had a chance to take the lead after Wade's missed dunk.

"I saw us with the ball and a three-on-one," Joerger said. "A live ball."

For his part, Wade chalked the call up to the breaks of basketball.

"I got the steal and put pressure on the ball," Wade said. "I probably took off a little too far. And the refs seen him close to me and thought he probably nudged me a little bit. But hey, sometimes you get [the calls], sometimes you don't. So I was able to go to the line and make one and put us up one."

The frustration within the Kings' locker room was palpable after the game.

"It's deflating," Kings guard Darren Collison said. "It's hurtful. We felt like we played a great game throughout the whole game, we played hard. We played together as a team. And the way the game ended, the way it [was taken] away from us, it hurts. But it doesn't always come down to that one call, obviously. But to end that way, it definitely hurts."

The controversy over the call overshadowed the fact that Cousins had an unbelievable game.
 

mafra

Legend
I'm of the belief that you treat the final 3 minutes like the playoffs.... DO NOT give free throws (free points) to players unless they're basically bleeding. This way, all is fair.

I don't mind that Rose didn't get the call tonight.... what infuriates me is that Booker got 2 free points with 90 second and then in top of that Rose didn't get the call. This bias is what drives fans to believing in conspiracy theories.

Final seconds of a close game and A 20 year old, second year player gets a quick whistle in MSG but the former MVP on his home floor doesn't?

To give Wade free throws in that spot? The ref should lose his job....
As a former ref once said, sometimes
You just blindly blow whistle on reputation.... No way Kobe airballs
A shot.... Must have been fouled.... no way Wade misses a dunk.... had to
Be a foul. And, since we don't like
cousins anyway....
Whistle blows and 1/82 games is stolen from SAC.
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
Hornacek interesting closing post game comment below

"WE WON OUR CLOSE GAMES EARLIER IN THE YR BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE NOT. IT'S AN 82gm SEASON AND USUALLY IT WILL EVEN OUT AND WE'LL WIN ABOUT HALF OF THEM OR AT LEAST WE HOPE BUT IT'S A BAD STRETCH FOR US RIGHT NOW"

This comment came close when questioning about officiating(on a couple occasions tonight)
I remember when we were still a winning team (seems like a long time ago) it actually crossed my mind... "what if we stop winning all those close games?" We've all the talent we have this season we should be doing much better than we are right now. Seriously, if I was told a couple of years ago that we'd have a healthy Rose, Melo, Noah and an all-star sophomore on our team I'd probably think we'll be top 3 in the East.
 

mafra

Legend
I remember when we were still a winning team (seems like a long time ago) it actually crossed my mind... "what if we stop winning all those close games?" We've all the talent we have this season we should be doing much better than we are right now. Seriously, if I was told a couple of years ago that we'd have a healthy Rose, Melo, Noah and an all-star sophomore on our team I'd probably think we'll be top 3 in the East.

Dolan's ownership style fosters an atmosphere of paranoia, and Phil brings a culture of arrogance, contempt, along with unaccountability..... Hornachek's management of minutes brings confusion and perplexity.

I don't think we can blame the players for what's happening.
 

tiger0330

Legend
Biggest smile on JH's face came after the Melo miss. He knows this team has zero chance doing anything this year with CLE & TOR in the way.... he understands best thing moving forward is a lottery pick.

Going to be interesting to see what this team does at trade deadline. If they don't trade a bunch of vets, I can see them deciding to move forward with Rose.... they could use stretch in noah and give Rose a 4 year 100 mil type deal. I'm not advocating it.... but clearly Rose will be one of the premiere free agent guards. A little continuity might help.
No to paying one trick ponies like DRose 4 yr 100M deals. He's Amare waiting to happen all over again. This is a 3 pt shooting league and he can't shoot the 3 nor do the other things you want from an elite PG making near max money like passing or defending.

Melo is a tough trade but Phil should be working the phones to see what the interest is in him out there. It's clearly the end of the Melo era in NY, seems no matter what coach or players you put around him you can't win with him. He's given the Knicks an opening by saying he'd be open to a trade if the Knicks didn't want him, it's time to have that conversation.
 
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Broadway

All Star
I remember when we were still a winning team (seems like a long time ago) it actually crossed my mind... "what if we stop winning all those close games?" We've all the talent we have this season we should be doing much better than we are right now. Seriously, if I was told a couple of years ago that we'd have a healthy Rose, Melo, Noah and an all-star sophomore on our team I'd probably think we'll be top 3 in the East.

We also could be a lot worse had we lost the earlier ones. Not me, although I do wish we had got the Noah from 3-4yrs ago. See I look at this game totally different these days, because of the access to information. Analytics really can keep you from harms way if used correctly and not all stupid geeky like some choose to use it.

General Rules to follow when constructing a team...


- Establish a culture and identity that will transcend any era and magnetize every person brought in, to it

- Don't hire individuals in an organization to assume roles they have zero experience in

- BUILD FROM WITHIN FIRST not when forced to

- Don't bring in any individual who has personal agendas

- Don't acquire players who aren't about winning and the team, first through last

- Don't drain future assets and resources to acquire players who have never won big in their career

- Don't acquire players who don't make teammates better and benefit more from the roster around them instead of the other way around

- Don't acquire players who aren't multi dimensional if they are to assume high usage roles

- Don't pay a ton of money to players who are 30+ unless they are true bonafied studs and have a near impeccable track record

- If there is presence of youth in an organization find out quickly how good or bad they are

- Get a coach who not only has a breath and depth of knowledge when it comes to Xs and Os but who also is a true leader of men

- Make sure everyone is committed to giving it their all no matter the results


I predicted 36-46 before the season started because they fail pretty much on all of the above...we have to finish 17-20 the rest of the way. I seriously doubt we do.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Thanx for the Game Thread Rady .. I had put this game down as a home win on Dec 13 when we had a OT loss in Phoenix by 2 points

On cue Devin Booker with the uncontested three Suns back up by two; this team can't close quarters, halves, and games. Add poor perimeter defense( defense in general) and you are a sub .500 team

Thanx Chief for the play by play Game Thread, i thought the conclusion wouldve turn out to be a home win ..
I blame ex-Knicks Tyson Chandler defense n knowledge of Melo's $$$ qaurter performance for both losses to Phoenix.
Tyson allowed KP to get 1 reb in 33 minutes ...SMH

We will keep losing games until coach Horn start putting the Tandem of Quinn & Willy in the rotation together for 20 minute per game .. in all our games in practice we were suppose to let our starter frontcourt Noah/KP/Melo challenge the bench frontcourt Quinn/Willy/Kuz on offense/defense
 

mafra

Legend
"According to NBA Stats, D-Rose is one of just 11 players in the league who averages at least 10 hard drives to the basket per game, but his 2.3 free-throw attempts resulting from those drives and subsequent fouls is the fourth fewest among the group."
 

Broadway

All Star
"According to NBA Stats, D-Rose is one of just 11 players in the league who averages at least 10 hard drives to the basket per game, but his 2.3 free-throw attempts resulting from those drives and subsequent fouls is the fourth fewest among the group."

Historically outside of his MVP season and around there even when playing for the Bulls Rose never had a good FTAs/gm average. So it's a CAREER problem of his. This suggest 2 things IMO...

Either become intelligent enough to draw more contact and place more pressure on the refs for calls or how about this novel idea, distribute the basketball more and stop being a mini Melo Ball Hog(with his paltry 4.5ast/gm avg). Absolutely hate his game and in most cases he tries to convert buckets avoiding contact.

Truth be told unless you're of the ELITE like Harden/Westbrook/Durant/Lebron players going to the free throw line possession after possession actually stunts the rhythm/flow of the game and can work against you.
 

mafra

Legend
Historically outside of his MVP season and around there even when playing for the Bulls Rose never had a good FTAs/gm average. So it's a CAREER problem of his. This suggest 2 things IMO...

Either become intelligent enough to draw more contact and place more pressure on the refs for calls or how about this novel idea, distribute the basketball more and stop being a mini Melo Ball Hog(with his paltry 4.5ast/gm avg). Absolutely hate his game and in most cases he tries to convert buckets avoiding contact.

Truth be told unless you're of the ELITE like Harden/Westbrook/Durant/Lebron players going to the free throw line possession after possession actually stunts the rhythm/flow of the game and can work against you.

That article Said in his MVP season he averaged over 6 attempts a game.... now that's down to about 3.

It's not the lack of calls that bother me, it's the inconsistency..... last night Booker gets bailed out with a call with 90 seconds left but then Rose doesn't get the call with 50 seconds (bc refs didn't want a call changing the game)..... either both are fouls or both are play-on no-calls.
 

Broadway

All Star
That article Said in his MVP season he averaged over 6 attempts a game.... now that's down to about 3.

It's not the lack of calls that bother me, it's the inconsistency..... last night Booker gets bailed out with a call with 90 seconds left but then Rose doesn't get the call with 50 seconds (bc refs didn't want a call changing the game)..... either both are fouls or both are play-on no-calls.

6ish attempts per game is pretty mediocre considering that was his best yr, for his career (Sans MVP season he averages about 3.5fta...3.1/4.3/3.2/3.7/2.7 and this yr 3.7). For someone who attacks the rim as much as he does, that's absolutely awful. The only reason he averaged 6.9 his MVP yr and 6 the next because he played those seasons with injury riddled rosters. He was pretty much their only scoring option so his usage was way off the charts.

What I'd like for you to explain is why the refs were inconsistent with him before he was a Knick? Why are his ast down at about the same ratio as his fta, comparing the MVP season or thereabouts?

Refs are inconsistent in every game AND? You pointed out the Sac/Bulls game AND? You think the league feels sorry for DeMarcus Cousins or Rose or Melo or New York Media or Paul George or Mark Cuban or Jeff Van Gundy or Rasheed Wallace whoever else is complaining/has complained about them? Melo publicly complained the past 2yrs and it's gotten him nowhere. Matter of fact I'd wager to say it proves to be more a detriment long term to a team's success.

The league doesn't care, and they aren't going to change. It's their league, you either stop supporting it or accept the way they run it. The only concession they've made is the last 2min reporting(which is meaningless in the grand scheme of things, IMO it makes it worse)...this is the bone they've thrown your way, chew on it or spit it out.
 
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