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  1. #1
    Veteran tiger0330's Avatar
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    Default Are the Knicks doing enough to develop Porzingis?

    I've questioned what the Knicks are doing to develop Porzingis, even wondering if this dysfunctional team is the right team for KP. This Bleacher Report article supports my feelings that the Knicks aren't doing enough to develop the single player that may be the key for the next 10 years for the Knicks. The Knicks need to devote more time and effort in developing him because it's the end of the Melo era in NY in addition to likely not re-signing DRose. The Knicks need to see if KP can be the franchise player that many see him to be.

    Yao Ming didn't become a HOF center because Houston let him fool around with his 3 pt shot even though people pointed out when he was drafted that he had a nice jump shot that he could make from 3 pt range. No they force fed Yao to become a dominant center, Thibs used to go to China in the off-season to work exclusively with Yao, T-Mac tells that story about Yao going to the bathroom during one of his training sessions and took too long for Thibs. Thibs went to get Yao going to bathroom and telling Yao, "Come on Yao, we need to work on this." They also had Yao work with former NBA head coach Carroll Dawson, a noted big man coach and Hakeem. That's the kind of focus KP needs.

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    NEW YORK KNICKS ARE TO BLAME FOR KRISTAPS PORZINGIS' UNDERWHELMING SEASON

    NEW YORK — The New York Knicks' 2017 NBA season is winding down. Spoiler alert: They're not making the playoffs. So, what now?

    The answer is simple: Figure out the best way to develop Kristaps Porzingis, or in cliched sports parlance, it's time to toss him the keys to the car. Helping Porzingis morph into the franchise player so many believe he can become is crucial to the Knicks emerging from the darkness that has engulfed all of Madison Square Garden since the turn of the century.

    Thing is, Porzingis isn't in this alone. Franchise players are fostered, not born. It's up to teams to bring them along. So far, the Knicks have failed.


    On the surface, Porzingis' numbers look fine: 18.1 points, 7.3 rebounds and 1.9 blocks per game. He's drilling 37.2 percent of his three-pointers. He's still a 7'3" center with a guard's skillset. He's still 21. He's still the dazzling unicorn New Yorkers and the NBA love.

    Yet there's no getting around the feel that Porzingis' sophomore campaign has been disappointing. His player efficiency rating has actually dropped from last year, according to Basketball-Reference.com. He is second in the league in personal fouls committed per contest. There are games when he looks just like another tall guy on the court, a player who struggles generating clean looks for himself and whose output doesn't stand out. Statistically, the Knicks offense has been better with Porzingis off the floor. (Some lingering injuries have no doubt played a role in this as well.)

    "It seems like there are times when he floats a little bit and isn't engaged," TNT and NBA TV analyst Grant Hill told Bleacher Report. "I feel like he can do more, and we're all itching to see that."

    Take, for example, Porzingis' game in the post. This season, he's faced the same tactics that Dirk Nowitzki did early in his career: Teams are slotting smaller and stronger defenders onto him (the Boston Celtics often tab the 6'4" Marcus Smart) who are quick to stick with him off the bounce but can also get up in Porzingis' chest and push him off his spot.


    Post play was a major focus for Porzingis' over the summer, and early in the year, that work was paying off. Lately, not so much. His moves on the block are often choppy. He'll zig and zag before chucking up a contested off-balance heave. The results have been ugly, too: The .79 points per post possession he's averaging on the year place him in the league's 22nd percentile, per NBA.com.

    "He was more aggressive getting the ball in the post area and making a move, (but) there was still a couple of times that I'd like him to…just come across and take the shot and not do all the spins and the dribbles," Knicks head coach Jeff Hornacek told reporters after a recent game.

    But seeking out and taking advantage of a mismatch is not a one-player job. It's on the head coach to instill that into his system, and to implement the necessary schemes.

    So, say Porzingis is told to screen for a dribbler, which the defense counters by switching, which leaves a smaller guard on Porzingis. Hornacek this season has made it clear that he believes it's Porzingis' job to then get position in the paint and make himself into a target. That's true, but there are also tactics that can be deployed to help him, and by proxy the team. Maybe a ball-reversal to get the defense shifting. Maybe another big man flashing to the high post.


    "You can't just say, 'Go down to the post,'" one scout, who's also a former Dallas Mavericks assistant coach, told Bleacher Report. "When I was with Dirk (Nowitzki), one of the things we really drove into the team was creating and taking advantage of mismatches. It has to be drilled in."

    That has not been the case with the Knicks this year, especially when Porzingis shares the court with Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Rose. He's finishing fewer possessions than he did last season. The only consistent shots he's getting are long catch-and-shoot jumpers off pick-and-pops.

    He's sixth on the team in isolation plays per game. He's only averaging 0.69 points per isolation take (putting him in the 25th percentile), but a lot of those forced one-on-one attempts have come after him going multiple possessions without touching the ball.

    Also, isolation play isn't his game. That Porzignis has thrived while playing with the Knicks' relentless second unit as opposed to the lethargic starters is no coincidence.

    Porzingis prefers to keep the ball swinging. He thrives off quick-hitting pick-and-rolls. These are positive attributes, not tendencies that should be limiting him. The ball doesn't stick in his hands (his 1.43 seconds per touch average is one of the lowest on the team). His ball-handling is most effective when he's able to attack an off-balance defense closing out hard to the perimeter.

    "You can see how much stronger he is compared to last year on those drives, too," TNT and NBA TV analyst Steve Smith told Bleacher Report. "He's no longer getting bumped off on them."

    And let's not forget the other end of the floor, where Porzingis has proven himself to be one of the NBA's premier rim protectors; the 44.5 percent that opponents are shooting at the basket against him is one of the NBA's top marks. Sure, there are times where he's slow on his rotations (mostly a result of him standing up straight as opposed to remaining in a defensive stance), but that's also him following his instincts, which are to retreat to the paint. That's what the Knicks should have him doing. Instead, Hornacek has spent the majority of the season playing Porzingis at power forward, where he's forced to chase smaller players around the perimeter.

    The good news for the Knicks is that they've already gotten past the hard part. That they have a player like Porzingis, a wunderkind who by all accounts is all a basketball savant eager to work and get better, means they're ahead of the championship curve.

    The next step, though, is recognizing how high Porzingis' ceiling is, and doing everything they can to help him get there. That means building systems around him and tailoring schemes towards his strength. Only then will Porzingis realize his potential, and only then will the Knicks finally begin to turn things around.

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    "There's a lot of confusion," Porzingis told Marc Berman of the New York Post. "A lot of times it's basically one-on-one. Whoever, me, myself, Carmelo [Anthony], Courtney [Lee], we try to make something happen, and that's not how it's supposed to be."

    "We've been switching things up because never at any point this season, we played like we wanted to," said Porzingis. "Maybe this will work. So we are looking for stuff. The coaching staff obviously is trying to do the best job they can to give us the information, but we never got it all together."

    Porzingis went on to add that it is not just the offense that is struggling, saying, "From top to bottom, everything. A lot of stuff that's not clear. … [The frustration] is pretty high. Concentration was tough when we're not doing the right thing and not working together right now. We need to find solutions the next 16 games."

    "It's a tough year, everything. There's a quote about smooth seas. If the seas are smooth, you're never going to become a great sailor," Porzingis said referencing a famous FDR quote. "That's how I always take it. It's a tough year. I'm trying to get better so one day we can make a step forward and win big sometime."

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    KP needs development, that's for sure. he's quickly becoming a very one dimensional player and that has me pretty concerned. personally i'm writing that up as sophomore funkiness and REALLY trying to figure yourself out. but what exactly would most people like to see the knicks do to develop KP, besides get rid of melo and rose of course? because we saw last year that he does not like to play down low. he does not like to attempt any post ups. we saw that with our own eyes. not only is he not good at it, but he doesn't like to even try. because he knows he'll get beat up. and by the way, i thought they did a pretty good job of getting RoLo to help protect him, to kind of free him up. AND they went ahead and got his best bud from spain so he could be more comfortable here, probably not realizing that he'd actually be as good as he is. but i guess most people like to overlook stuff like that. it's not enough.

    "That Porzignis has thrived while playing with the Knicks' relentless second unit as opposed to the lethargic starters is no coincidence."

    maybe he's playing against others teams' 2nd units? maybe that has something to do with it too? how about holding this guy a little accountable for his own development too? how about he grow a pair of balls and start attacking the basket some more? only time he does it is in situations like that clip above this post, when he already has a clear lane in front of him.
    and i'm still glad we didn't get thibs as head coach. KP would probably be out with a season ending injury already.

    i still don't think this is the guy to 'build around'. he's a good piece to have next to the franchise player, i'm not going to argue that. but i don't think he actually is the franchise player. personally i think baby-gasol shows more potential to play that role than KP does. beware of these analysts and journalists and so-called experts who are so confident about this idea that KP is the franchise player. these are the same people who love to beat up on the knicks every little chance they get for even the dumbest of reasons. they're just setting the table for next thanksgiving, man.

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    Veteran tiger0330's Avatar
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    Nice post and1. I thought you were a bigger fan of KP than the above indicates. Your post actually makes you sound like a hater instead of one of those guys that think he can be a franchise player. I personally think you have to focus on those big man post skills and making him stronger to compete with the bigs in the league. I don't think his wing skills and big man skills have to be mutually exclusive, look at Brook Lopez making over 100 3s this season and attempting about a third of his shots from distance. Brooks numbers are pretty absurd for a low post big man like Lopez but as long as he's shooting 33% from 3 it's like shooting 50% from 2.

    KP is a good shooter but he can be stopped if you take away his air space and defenders get into his chest, I'm not sure how much his shooting % drops when he's challenged but my eye test says it's significant. So if NBA defenses can make him a pedestrian shooter as a wing then develop his post game. I was surprised to read in that article that the Knicks spent a lot of time this off-season working on his post game because it doesn't show in his game and the Knicks don't run any plays for him.

    The Knicks have very little to look forward to next year, CLee didn't make the grade as an NBA starter and showed why he's been a bench player for most of his NBA career, I doubt DRose is coming back unless no one offers him a 20M/yr deal, the Knicks need to make max effort to trade Melo this off-season and if he comes back because they can't trade him because there's no demand for him or he blocks a deal that's a negative for the Knicks season next year. Noah looks like a boat anchor for the next 3 years with "stretching" him probably being the Knicks best option but PJ will probably give him another year to see if can turn around his dreadful season. The rest of the team are just role players with WHG having the most potential. Porzingis is the brightest light in the Knicks dismal future and they have to figure out how to make him burn the brightest.

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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    Nice post and1. I thought you were a bigger fan of KP than the above indicates. Your post actually makes you sound like a hater instead of one of those guys that think he can be a franchise player. I personally think you have to focus on those big man post skills and making him stronger to compete with the bigs in the league. I don't think his wing skills and big man skills have to be mutually exclusive, look at Brook Lopez making over 100 3s this season and attempting about a third of his shots from distance. Brooks numbers are pretty absurd for a low post big man like Lopez but as long as he's shooting 33% from 3 it's like shooting 50% from 2.

    KP is a good shooter but he can be stopped if you take away his air space and defenders get into his chest, I'm not sure how much his shooting % drops when he's challenged but my eye test says it's significant. So if NBA defenses can make him a pedestrian shooter as a wing then develop his post game. I was surprised to read in that article that the Knicks spent a lot of time this off-season working on his post game because it doesn't show in his game and the Knicks don't run any plays for him.

    The Knicks have very little to look forward to next year, CLee didn't make the grade as an NBA starter and showed why he's been a bench player for most of his NBA career, I doubt DRose is coming back unless no one offers him a 20M/yr deal, the Knicks need to make max effort to trade Melo this off-season and if he comes back because they can't trade him because there's no demand for him or he blocks a deal that's a negative for the Knicks season next year. Noah looks like a boat anchor for the next 3 years with "stretching" him probably being the Knicks best option but PJ will probably give him another year to see if can turn around his dreadful season. The rest of the team are just role players with WHG having the most potential. Porzingis is the brightest light in the Knicks dismal future and they have to figure out how to make him burn the brightest.

    This is a great POST that need to be put on the front home door of Dolan, Phil, and coach Horn.
    Being concern about the development of a young player is not hating on the player when u notice consistently the player has talent n skills but the player is clueless on when n where to use his talent n skills bc owner n management n head-coach are TANKING to lose games using the famous isolation/one on one/ individual player coaching, which results in no development for young players.
    KP skills n talent in the 2nd season in the NBA has regress to the point of showing no improvement in performance since rookie season. KP indirectly admitted on several occasion the Knicks dont play nor coach Team-Ball in practice or in the game .. What does NO team-ball mean? it means no ball movement on offense, no team-defensive positioning to defend the perimeter n paint, no team development for new or young players.
    HINT: Joakim Noah only know one way how to play B.ball, and that's TEAM-BALL on both sides of the court .. the conflict coach Thibs had in Chicago were franchise Rose playing individual ball and Noah playing Team-ball .. the same situation in 2010 with the Denver Nuggets of Melo playing individual ball and Billups playing team-ball

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    Kp to my eyes is not the 'franchise'... he has some skills... he can shoot a bit, plays some 'd', but he has average skills in passing, while he is somewhat athletic, watch him dribble and he is clumsy around the basket... building your franchise around him.... I am not sold...

    I agree with the comments above ref to drose,clee... and to noah he def plays team ball.... but unfort he is playing with himself...

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    Originally Posted by and1
    KP needs development, that's for sure. he's quickly becoming a very one dimensional player and that has me pretty concerned. personally i'm writing that up as sophomore funkiness and REALLY trying to figure yourself out. but what exactly would most people like to see the knicks do to develop KP, besides get rid of melo and rose of course? because we saw last year that he does not like to play down low. he does not like to attempt any post ups. we saw that with our own eyes. not only is he not good at it, but he doesn't like to even try. because he knows he'll get beat up. and by the way, i thought they did a pretty good job of getting RoLo to help protect him, to kind of free him up. AND they went ahead and got his best bud from spain so he could be more comfortable here, probably not realizing that he'd actually be as good as he is. but i guess most people like to overlook stuff like that. it's not enough.

    "That Porzignis has thrived while playing with the Knicks' relentless second unit as opposed to the lethargic starters is no coincidence."

    maybe he's playing against others teams' 2nd units? maybe that has something to do with it too? how about holding this guy a little accountable for his own development too? how about he grow a pair of balls and start attacking the basket some more? only time he does it is in situations like that clip above this post, when he already has a clear lane in front of him.
    and i'm still glad we didn't get thibs as head coach. KP would probably be out with a season ending injury already.

    i still don't think this is the guy to 'build around'. he's a good piece to have next to the franchise player, i'm not going to argue that. but i don't think he actually is the franchise player. personally i think baby-gasol shows more potential to play that role than KP does. beware of these analysts and journalists and so-called experts who are so confident about this idea that KP is the franchise player. these are the same people who love to beat up on the knicks every little chance they get for even the dumbest of reasons. they're just setting the table for next thanksgiving, man.
    So true .. i have to agree, KP has no proper training on help defense plus his fear to bang-bodies n mix it up in the paint on offense/defense for 2 seasons question KP being a franchise player. Little 5.8 Nate Robinson performed inside the paint in his rookie season more than KP did in two seasons.
    All the hype written bout KP was for a losing Knicks franchise in need of some good news

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    Originally Posted by and1
    KP needs development, that's for sure. he's quickly becoming a very one dimensional player and that has me pretty concerned. personally i'm writing that up as sophomore funkiness and REALLY trying to figure yourself out. but what exactly would most people like to see the knicks do to develop KP, besides get rid of melo and rose of course? because we saw last year that he does not like to play down low. he does not like to attempt any post ups. we saw that with our own eyes. not only is he not good at it, but he doesn't like to even try. because he knows he'll get beat up. and by the way, i thought they did a pretty good job of getting RoLo to help protect him, to kind of free him up. AND they went ahead and got his best bud from spain so he could be more comfortable here, probably not realizing that he'd actually be as good as he is. but i guess most people like to overlook stuff like that. it's not enough.

    "That Porzignis has thrived while playing with the Knicks' relentless second unit as opposed to the lethargic starters is no coincidence."

    maybe he's playing against others teams' 2nd units? maybe that has something to do with it too? how about holding this guy a little accountable for his own development too? how about he grow a pair of balls and start attacking the basket some more? only time he does it is in situations like that clip above this post, when he already has a clear lane in front of him.
    and i'm still glad we didn't get thibs as head coach. KP would probably be out with a season ending injury already.

    i still don't think this is the guy to 'build around'. he's a good piece to have next to the franchise player, i'm not going to argue that. but i don't think he actually is the franchise player. personally i think baby-gasol shows more potential to play that role than KP does. beware of these analysts and journalists and so-called experts who are so confident about this idea that KP is the franchise player. these are the same people who love to beat up on the knicks every little chance they get for even the dumbest of reasons. they're just setting the table for next thanksgiving, man.

    When he kept stating a supportive case in the media on multiple occasions that he wants Melo to remain a Knick and that Melo helps his game was a major red flag. No #kporzee you do the things to help your game, take on the challenge and opportunity of being the face of the franchise and stop with the I still need to be coddled bs. I really could care less about the Politics here of "oh he was just sticking up for his boy because Melo was being treated unfairly this yr blah blah blah"...Naaaahhh that doesn't cut it for me.

    It spoke to me in a way you pointed out in your post above...#kporzee is a straight "BETA" persona at best and this will not work when we're talking about making leaps in progression and greatness. Gotta be an ALPHADOG. It's one thing to have acknowledged Melo/Knick dilemma as a tough situation at the onset but to keep caping for Melo on every occasion is bogus. After he spoke his peace once, he needed to take on a leadership strap your boots on suck it up type approach and be Sorry not Sorry about the situation. This is the NBA and it's a cutthroat/merciless business often times.

    He's very passive aggressive in nature. I guess the one thing we can hope for, this continued losing will get to him in a way where the light goes off and he gets it.
    Last edited by Broadway; Mar 13, 2017 at 18:33.

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    KP seemed to be more creative last season. He was mostly predictable this season. Also last season he seemed to learn quickly with blocking shots and not fouling, but that changed dramatically this season. I don't see a franchise player yet, but a dangerous weapon for sure.


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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    Yao Ming didn't become a HOF center because Houston let him fool around with his 3 pt shot even though people pointed out when he was drafted that he had a nice jump shot that he could make from 3 pt range. No they force fed Yao to become a dominant center, Thibs used to go to China in the off-season to work exclusively with Yao, T-Mac tells that story about Yao going to the bathroom during one of his training sessions and took too long for Thibs. Thibs went to get Yao going to bathroom and telling Yao, "Come on Yao, we need to work on this." They also had Yao work with former NBA head coach Carroll Dawson, a noted big man coach and Hakeem. That's the kind of focus KP needs.
    I disagree. Would Dirk have brought a championship to Dallas and a member of the 30k club if the Mavs would have forced him to become a low post player? I doubt it. Porzingis has already hinted at working with Dirk and Holger over the summer. The crossover against the much smaller Green, 37 per cent from three and the ability to create a mid-range shot out of thin air ... let him work on that, don't turn him into a lanky European low post player. Porzingis is determined to become a great player. Let him figure out a way to be the best version of himself.
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    yeah, don't get me wrong everyone. i'm not hating on KP. i still like him and i'm still glad we drafted him. i'm just not seeing him as THE franchise player. as stated above by others, i don't see him as an alpha, but he can be a very effective beta. i'm not a melo hater either, but yeah, there are definitely things about his game that piss me off. i'm not expecting anyone on this team to ever be perfect on both ends of the floor. it's just not realistic and not reasonable at all. we have to try and avoid these kinds of traps. i don't think we're ever going to see a post-up game from KP. he clearly does not like it. so we will need someone in our starting lineup who does have a nice post-up game. baby-gasol can do that, but i'm not so sure they're going to keep those 2 on the floor together significant minutes. we have to figure out who this alpha is going to be. hopefully we draft someone this summer who can more or less fill that role, or at the very least help compensate for the things that KP is going to lack.
    put it this way, if this season was KP's sophomore slump and was the worst we're going to see from him, he'll be in pretty good shape. but i'm not sold on him being the franchise guy. watch out for all these writers and radio folks who are trying really hard to sell that idea, because they're doing it on purpose, knowing they'll use it in the near future (more than likely once melo leaves) to rip him apart and drag us fans around in the mud even more than the actual organization already does hahaaaaa.

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    Originally Posted by and1
    yeah, don't get me wrong everyone. i'm not hating on KP. i still like him and i'm still glad we drafted him. i'm just not seeing him as THE franchise player. as stated above by others, i don't see him as an alpha, but he can be a very effective beta. i'm not a melo hater either, but yeah, there are definitely things about his game that piss me off. i'm not expecting anyone on this team to ever be perfect on both ends of the floor. it's just not realistic and not reasonable at all. we have to try and avoid these kinds of traps. i don't think we're ever going to see a post-up game from KP. he clearly does not like it. so we will need someone in our starting lineup who does have a nice post-up game. baby-gasol can do that, but i'm not so sure they're going to keep those 2 on the floor together significant minutes. we have to figure out who this alpha is going to be. hopefully we draft someone this summer who can more or less fill that role, or at the very least help compensate for the things that KP is going to lack.

    Put it this way, if this season was KP's sophomore slump and was the worst we're going to see from him, he'll be in pretty good shape. but i'm not sold on him being the franchise guy. watch out for all these writers and radio folks who are trying really hard to sell that idea, because they're doing it on purpose, knowing they'll use it in the near future (more than likely once melo leaves) to rip him apart and drag us fans around in the mud even more than the actual organization already does hahaaaaa.

    I'd like to see WHG lose about 10-15lbs personally if he and #kporzee are gonna continue playing heavy minutes together. Otoh I'd like to see #kporzee develop a style of play close to Jokic from Denver except I think #kporzee has a little more nasty in him. The question is does he have the broad skillset as Jokic. We don't know! Don't see it as of now.

    We need to see more diversity from him, like what are all the skills he possesses. We need to see them on display every game. He does need to play closer to the basket, then expand back out only situationally. Phil Jackson said he was a Pau Gasol talent upon drafting him, does anyone see this in his game? Heck Pau was a great #2, never a true #1 not even in his Memphis/Vancouver days. I'd be fine if he rivals his career. The main problem that exist at present we can't have Melo hanging on to his #1 role, one of which he's been a colossal failure at. If Melo remains past the summer, he needs to be relegated to a #3. Phil needs to prep for a #2 either free agency or draft. The draft is gonna be loaded, press on to the future. These last 15gms we should be heavily #kporzee centric.
    Last edited by Broadway; Mar 14, 2017 at 18:48.

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    I think Rubio could be a big help to Porzingis and the team in general. We'll see who they draft and if we keep Rose though.


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    The Knicks have a history of poorly developing young players. Effort plays a part but so does consistency. Melo's ISO style is not a good fit in the triangle. I was interested in seeing up tempo offense with small elements of the triangle, but it seems that Jackson has gotten his way again and undermined yet another coach. Don't expect this to get better anytime soon. Maybe once Jax is out, Melo is out and we've got a new roster of young players with a vet coach can we start over.

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    I wish folks would stop blaming Melo for KP's development or lack thereof. Was this weeks nor'easter Melo's fault as well??? The book is out on how to defend KP. Crowd him because he has no handle and make him shoot contested jumpers. It's up to KP to stop settling for those 30 jumpers that the defense wants him to shoot and get shots closer to the bucket. The end.

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