Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 45 of 45
  1. #31
    Veteran tiger0330's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    6,591
    Rep Power
    23

    Default

    Reading the comments on Twitter about Ball after he declared for the draft after the loss. Wasn't pretty, most calling him overrated and a bust at the next level. I think Fox gets picked ahead of him in the draft and maybe he falls to 5.

  2. #32
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,238
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    Reading the comments on Twitter about Ball after he declared for the draft after the loss. Wasn't pretty, most calling him overrated and a bust at the next level. I think Fox gets picked ahead of him in the draft and maybe he falls to 5.
    He's tall and can pass, and knows how to run an offense. When Kidd came out he couldn't shoot.... this kid has high bball iQ. It all depends on who picks where....

    The point is.... Ball and Fox could both be busts, all stars.... who knows. The point of this draft is that there are a legit 6-8 guys who could be franchise type talent. Sure, there's always that random sleeper and there's always the bust risk. While I don't see a Lebron or Wade or Melo in this draft, I do see a rose, wall, Kidd, beal, Thompson, Hardin type of talent.

    As it happens for Knicks.... we should be golden as long as we pick in the top 7.

    Tough, tough decisions for those who pick 1-3.... I personally think BOS trades their top pick. Lakers want Ball. I think Knicks would be extremely fortunate to get Fox, Monk, Trier.... I've never seen the French PG.... but they say he's good too.

  3. #33
    Veteran tiger0330's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    6,591
    Rep Power
    23

    Default

    I think more than the tourney games the team individual workouts are more important. Fox stock probably went through the roof coming up big in the tourney along with that ability that he's going to show in his workouts.

  4. #34
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,695
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Mario Chalmers looked every bit the pro Derrick Rose did when Kansas beat Memphis in the title game, I place little stock in an individual game unless a player looked absolutely overwhelmed and incompetent competitively. While many would have liked to see more from Ball, he didn't play terrible it's just that Kentucky and their kids played phenomenal.

    I mean Devin Booker was just a bench scorer for Kentucky coming into the draft. As Mafra stated teams will have to do their homework and consider fit/needs. I think Fox works for Philly just off the top of my head

    Big ups to Fox, he's really good...definitely lottery worthy. At the next level though he like Ball will to have to invest in building up their physical body, it's going to be a weakness. Another kid to look closely at is Thronwell from SoCo

  5. #35
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,695
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Originally Posted by mafra
    He's tall and can pass, and knows how to run an offense. When Kidd came out he couldn't shoot.... this kid has high bball iQ. It all depends on who picks where....

    The point is.... Ball and Fox could both be busts, all stars.... who knows. The point of this draft is that there are a legit 6-8 guys who could be franchise type talent. Sure, there's always that random sleeper and there's always the bust risk. While I don't see a Lebron or Wade or Melo in this draft, I do see a rose, wall, Kidd, beal, Thompson, Hardin type of talent.

    As it happens for Knicks.... we should be golden as long as we pick in the top 7.

    Tough, tough decisions for those who pick 1-3.... I personally think BOS trades their top pick. Lakers want Ball. I think Knicks would be extremely fortunate to get Fox, Monk, Trier.... I've never seen the French PG.... but they say he's good too.

    Possibly if it keeps them Top 5, otherwise I don't see it. They see the known quantities in players. One thing Ainge has proven maybe more so than any other GM the past 10yrs is identifying young talent coming into the league. I see them trading their other picks as the summer and next season unfolds.

  6. #36
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,238
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Originally Posted by Broadway
    Possibly if it keeps them Top 5, otherwise I don't see it. They see the known quantities in players. One thing Ainge has proven maybe more so than any other GM the past 10yrs is identifying young talent coming into the league. I see them trading their other picks as the summer and next season unfolds.
    If it weren't for GSW and CLE, I would have no doubt that Ainge would trade away his picks for players.... but, Ainge may see the writing on the bathroom stall, and may see that a team built around IT-AH isn't going to be beating GSW or CLE....

    So, perhaps he continues building.... and actually trades IT at deadline next year and continues to build a nucleus that will dominate the post Lebron and post GSW days? Who knows. Tough call. Al's window is closing and soon BOS has to decide if they want to keep IT or both Avery and Smart.

    The kid they took this year look decent enough.... and with a lottery pick coming.... they have 2 pieces.... most important tho is the GM-HC combo.

    Still, push comes to shove.... Go for Butler?

    NY finally seems poised to build thru draft but unfortunately PHI & BOS have head starts. Still, Embid is hurt every year and soon BOs must start paying their young players or let them walk.

    BOS and PHI are also cautionary tales. A TON of lottery picks the last 5 years hasn't meant much. BOS is competitive bc of backing into IT and Crowder.... in the NBA you need HOF guys.... Steph Curry or Lebron types... otherwise.... spin your wheels.

    The only good news for NY, they might've backed into 1 key ingredient.... think GSW and Spurs.... Green and Ginobli.... Fast tracking rebuild usually involves a steal in the second round. Maybe.... and I emphasize MAYBE.... NY might've found a gem in WHG.

    If they find another quality starter in the lottery this year and turn 1 of their second rounders into a rotation player.... even deal melo for a young asset.... that's 4 pieces. And we know that dealing Melo is addition by subtraction....
    This team will Hopefully really gel once Ny divests themselves of the Melo brand. Winning must be out above all else....
    A team built around the personalities of Horn-KP-WHG is probably a good start.

  7. #37
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    3,850
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    I said it at the deadline, add Paul George to the Celtics and that could be a team that could beat the Cavs and maybe win it all. If I was Ainge, I make another major push with the Pacers again this offseason with the picks he still has in his pocket. I think once those picks are used, the players are worth much less. No way Jaylen Brown gets you as much as his 1st round pick would have netted Boston last year.

  8. #38
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,695
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Originally Posted by mafra
    If it weren't for GSW and CLE, I would have no doubt that Ainge would trade away his picks for players.... but, Ainge may see the writing on the bathroom stall, and may see that a team built around IT-AH isn't going to be beating GSW or CLE....

    So, perhaps he continues building.... and actually trades IT at deadline next year and continues to build a nucleus that will dominate the post Lebron and post GSW days? Who knows. Tough call. Al's window is closing and soon BOS has to decide if they want to keep IT or both Avery and Smart.

    The kid they took this year look decent enough.... and with a lottery pick coming.... they have 2 pieces.... most important tho is the GM-HC combo.

    Still, push comes to shove.... Go for Butler?
    The push for Butler with a potentially closing window on any said current player doesn't justify trading away the best part(s) of the future. I could see Ainge putting their future picks and a player or two on the table. Like a 2018 & 19 1st, Crowder, Rozier, and other filler for Butler. The 2017 1st more than likely will not be on the table although that's all this summer's draft talk may center around to hype the draft. Al Horford was just a piece to the competitive puzzle balance. Trust, DA is not anchoring his title hopes to Al Horford's longevity. DA will make moves as he sees the upside and because circumstance will call for him to do so

    Originally Posted by mafra
    NY finally seems poised to build thru draft but unfortunately PHI & BOS have head starts. Still, Embid is hurt every year and soon BOs must start paying their young players or let them walk.

    BOS and PHI are also cautionary tales. A TON of lottery picks the last 5 years hasn't meant much. BOS is competitive bc of backing into IT and Crowder.... in the NBA you need HOF guys.... Steph Curry or Lebron types... otherwise.... spin your wheels.

    The only good news for NY, they might've backed into 1 key ingredient.... think GSW and Spurs.... Green and Ginobli.... Fast tracking rebuild usually involves a steal in the second round. Maybe.... and I emphasize MAYBE.... NY might've found a gem in WHG.

    If they find another quality starter in the lottery this year and turn 1 of their second rounders into a rotation player.... even deal melo for a young asset.... that's 4 pieces. And we know that dealing Melo is addition by subtraction....

    This team will Hopefully really gel once Ny divests themselves of the Melo brand. Winning must be out above all else....
    A team built around the personalities of Horn-KP-WHG is probably a good start.
    Philly has two players on their team right now almost worthy of ROY(Embiid-Saric). Yeah they had bad fortunes with injury but there's nothing too cuationary in terms of the sure talent they have. It's going to break through soon enough. Keep in mind we haven's seen Simmons yet so be cautious about how you view them. They can draft any premium talent we can come this summer.

    Boston has only ascended to the Top of the east with constant doubt about them. Really bizarre perspective here when it comes to their team.

    Actually it's not just Phil and Bos... we'll be behind Orlando, Bucks in the east and Wolves and Lakers in the west. We play the whole field and considering new playoffs seedings, which I believe is a sign Divisions are soon to be eliminated. Look for breaking news in schedule changes next 3yrs...

    In regards to our Knicks...Phil needs to take those 2nd round picks 44th and 58th respectively, anchor them to say someone like Baker or Kaminsk along with cash and trade into the 1st round if he sees someone who'll be a better fit long term. Or hit the lottery...literally, with them(Jokic/Green/Middleton/Clarkson)

    No matter how you slice it we're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy behind!!!!

  9. #39
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,238
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    I agree we're way behind, but you have to admit: BOS ascended bc their GM made great deals (IT and Crowder). Phil said no to Crowder.

    Without IT and Crowder, Al doesn't sign with them and without those 3 players.... BOS is a bottom feeder. All their drafts picks the last 7 years.... have produced very little.

    PHi is going to be very good if Embid stays healthy. Simmons could be a decent player.... we shall see. Saric looks serviceable too. But I don't buy into what players do when team has nothing to play for.

    I mean, to me, KP and WHG are about equal to Embid and Saric.
    Now, we both have lottery picks... but they do have a few more pieces (Simmons).

    MIL will be without Parker next year... brutal.

    I'm not a big believer, personally,
    In the OrL team. Something is missing. I think DEN is ahead of them.

    Knicks are doomed mainly bc Dolan-Phil-HORn is so below what these they teams have.
    I think KP, WHG, Lottery pick is a decent start.... but unless we hit HR this draft and we find out very own type IT/Crowder deals.... we will be competing for a few more lottery picks.

    But, again, in the NBA.... its all about elite talent.... getting that transcendent player.... all of those teams we talk about are nice to good and on right track....
    But the race is to see who drafts that next SUPER sTAR.

    I mean, look.... NO has Cousins and Davis and could re-sign Holiday.... and even with them something is missing.

    But, in my final analysis, I doubt NY is playing meaningful games in May-June for years to come.

    But.... who knows.... maybe Monk falls in our lap and is a Thompson type guy? Or Trier another Hardin? I doubt it...

    Heck, even OKC had Durant, Westbrook, and Hardin and accomplished nada.

  10. #40
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,238
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Anyway, I felt all year I would love Tatum or Fox. Fox is the safest bc he's super atheletic, a lefty, and can play defense. He can improve his outside shot and hopefully the passing stuff.... but he's a legit prospect.

  11. #41
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,695
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Originally Posted by mafra
    I agree we're way behind, but you have to admit: BOS ascended bc their GM made great deals (IT and Crowder). Phil said no to Crowder.

    Without IT and Crowder, Al doesn't sign with them and without those 3 players.... BOS is a bottom feeder. All their drafts picks the last 7 years.... have produced very little.

    PHi is going to be very good if Embid stays healthy. Simmons could be a decent player.... we shall see. Saric looks serviceable too. But I don't buy into what players do when team has nothing to play for.

    I mean, to me, KP and WHG are about equal to Embid and Saric.
    Now, we both have lottery picks... but they do have a few more pieces (Simmons).

    MIL will be without Parker next year... brutal.

    I'm not a big believer, personally,
    In the OrL team. Something is missing. I think DEN is ahead of them.

    Knicks are doomed mainly bc Dolan-Phil-HORn is so below what these they teams have.
    I think KP, WHG, Lottery pick is a decent start.... but unless we hit HR this draft and we find out very own type IT/Crowder deals.... we will be competing for a few more lottery picks.

    But, again, in the NBA.... its all about elite talent.... getting that transcendent player.... all of those teams we talk about are nice to good and on right track....
    But the race is to see who drafts that next SUPER sTAR.

    I mean, look.... NO has Cousins and Davis and could re-sign Holiday.... and even with them something is missing.

    But, in my final analysis, I doubt NY is playing meaningful games in May-June for years to come.

    But.... who knows.... maybe Monk falls in our lap and is a Thompson type guy? Or Trier another Hardin? I doubt it...

    Heck, even OKC had Durant, Westbrook, and Hardin and accomplished nada.
    Good call on Denver they have really good youth. WHG brother Juan can flat out shoot even he's a nice find for them. When looking at the league players who are 25 and younger we fall well short in comparison.

    No GM in the league would take #kporzee/WHG over Embiid/Saric absolutely none, even with the health concerns and I'm giving us the edge there. The "putting up stats on a bad team argument" is weakened when the Knicks are among the worst teams in the league, so that would include our young kids production.

    Saric is exceptionally skilled, he has shown more to his game this yr than our beloved unicorn and I'm being bipartisan here. He could regress next season if for nothing else having to adjust to the continual influx of youth but he's damn good no debating. Boston may have undefined talent at the same time they have 3 recently drafted players who are part of a rotation on a winning team, that in of itself speaks for something more than we can discredit. Boston will also have a pick no lower than 4 coming this summer, this too speaks to their favor

    The Bucks have Gannis/Brogdan/Parker/Middleton/Maker there's no comparison here...I'd trade our whole team for Gannis straight up without blinking once, thinking twice. If we want to move the goal posts and say move the age down from 25, we still don't compare much.

    The up and coming draft continues to show more names declaring, the deeper it will be. Teams drafting outside the lottery will land a good player(starter caliber if not better). Some teams have multiple picks in the 1st round like Portland(12, 20, 27) might as well put us behind them too. Orlando has picks 4 and 22 currently.

    This is why I wanted Randle on the team to start the season because I feel he should be included but the proof isn't there yet

  12. #42
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,695
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Tonight Dorsey outplayed Jackson and arguably has been the best player in the Tourney thus far. It doesn't make me second guess or think less of Jackson's talent. It makes me consider Dorsey's talent more than I had

    This is what I was getting at with the Fox vs Ball take last night. It only proves that if most of these names are thrown into the hat for the summer, this draft is gonna be exquisite/rich with talent.

  13. #43
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,238
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    The difference between all those other teams and NY is that those teams have been selecting multiple lottery picks for the last 4-5 years.

    The Knicks have drafted in the first round in 1 of the previous 3 drafts. So it's obvious that a bunch of other teams will be ahead of NY.

    Fortunately, the Knicks stole what appears to be a solid rotation player (maybe even starting center) in the 22 yr-old gifted post player WHG (and if we are stuck running the triangle at least we found a post scorer).

    KP is still a question mark, but at the least he'll be a solid rotation player.

    And, when i speak of rotation player I mean a contributing 1/8 guys who play for the most part.

    I think both KP and WHG have the atttitide and work ethic to excel and improve. Time will tell.

    But, yeah, I would take PHI, BOS, MIL roster over ours right now.

    Still, if we draft a potential stud guard (Fox or Monk) and find a way to turn those 2 second rounders into another player.... if we sign a decent you player or trade for one.... and, when we stink next year and year after.... that should be 2 more lottery picks.

    So, if the right decisions are made this summer and next 2 drafts.... The Knicks should be in a good position to compete come 2019-2020 season.

    At that point, KP and WHG will be 25.... have years under their belt playing together.... should be a solid PF/C combo.... maybe Fox is the PG (with 2 seasons under his belt).... plus 2 other lottery picks and other assets.

    Then, at that point, who knows. I mean, it's all up to individual players. Who will be good, great, a bust in 4 years? Will Saric be Robert Hoary or Karl Malone or just another body? Will KP be Dirk or Gasol or D.Schrinpf or just a KVH?

    At least for the first time since when the NYK can boast having a few solid young players and a lending lottery selection?

    Now, if Randle and Thomas and KOQ can flourish with the removal of the Melo cloud?

    Also, to be fair, WHG has been solid all year.... even when NYK we're fighting for playoff shot.... Saric didn't start playing well until about halfway point.... evaluating young guys the last 20 games, when nothing is on the line, is akin to September stats. Remember when Tony Douglas looked like the next Chauncey Billups?

    I think SAric can be very good.... he was a lottery pick for a reason. I just wonder if he can play on the court with Embid.

    Ball, Simmons, Embid, Saric will be fun to watch... for sure tho.

  14. #44
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,238
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Originally Posted by Broadway
    Tonight Dorsey outplayed Jackson and arguably has been the best player in the Tourney thus far. It doesn't make me second guess or think less of Jackson's talent. It makes me consider Dorsey's talent more than I had

    This is what I was getting at with the Fox vs Ball take last night. It only proves that if most of these names are thrown into the hat for the summer, this draft is gonna be exquisite/rich with talent.
    I wanted nothing to do with hardin bc he looked lousy in the Tourny.... and derrick wiliams dominated duke. Look at the careers of those 2 AZ guys...

    Heck, Jerry West got upset by Manhattan....


    The only thing Fox-Ball matchup showed me was that I worry about Ball a little b/c Fox was able to hold him In check defensively. Fox is an NBa defender and he basically took away ball's ability to score. Meanwhile, Ball couldn't even guard Fox or Monk....

    Now, this means little if put in the right place. JJ Redick perfect example.... he was a bust in ORL and now a solid starter in LAC.

    Anyway, Fox's defense in Ball meant more to me than his 39 (and solid FT shooting). We desperately need somebody who can defend the point position.

    As for Dorsey.... he trained with the Greek Freak this summer. He hits big shots.... I think he hit that big 3 when OR beat UCLA at home this regular season. Remember, Tyler Dorsey was a McDonalds All American, Mr California and was pac-12 player of year.

    Get ready for a treat tomorrow.... Kentucky beat UNC at buzzer this year, winning 103-100. Monk hit 3 to win it (had 40 something points). Fox and Jackson played AAU together too, I believe.
    Last edited by mafra; Today at 22:31.

  15. #45
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,695
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Disagree on the WHG and Saric chronology and remember at one point Philly was charging for playoff contention, other than this Mafra I have no qualms about what was posted.

    Knicks only sure fire way to improve is drafting, free agency and trades haven't proven much

Similar Threads

  1. Nash Reportedly Uninterested In Knicks
    By Crazy⑧s in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: May 25, 2012, 00:09
  2. Replies: 26
    Last Post: Mar 14, 2012, 18:43
  3. Knicks considering drafting Iman Shumpert at 17????
    By Carmelo Iz Filthy in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: Jun 25, 2011, 18:33
  4. Replies: 28
    Last Post: Jul 19, 2010, 19:05
  5. Knicks explore drafting Gerald Henderson?
    By Scribbles in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Jun 24, 2009, 07:26

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •