8th Pick .. 6.5 PG Frank Ntikilina aka Frank Nitty

Smooth 2 Stepping Frenchie

vs

Base in Yo Face DSJ

They square off July 1st I believe in the Orlando Summer League. What I do like similar to Mudiay(Congo) the roots from which Frenchie(Ruwanda) hails, the odds really were stacked against him and he's risen above it.

Just like Fox/Ball will forever be a rivalry IMO so will this one Frenchie/DSJ

Broadway said:

Smooth 2 Stepping Frenchie

vs

Base in Yo Face DSJ

They square off July 1st I believe in the Orlando Summer League. What I do like similar to Mudiay(Congo) the roots from which Frenchie(Ruwanda) hails, the odds really were stacked against him and he's risen above it.

Just like Fox/Ball will forever be a rivalry IMO so will this one Frenchie/DSJ

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Frank takes too long to get his shot off. At first I thought that dunk was him but then I saw it was DSJ. We only face DAL twice a year but Fox and Ball are going to battle, Fox is still my guy out playing Ball twice in college and I was reading this guy gave the Lakers the highest score in the draft A++ so he's impressed with Ball.

I think that's true.... Fultz/Fox/Ball and Tatum/Jax and isaac/Finnish dude and, finally, Frenchie/DSJ/Monk/Kennard....

That's the comparison matchups for the next 3 years.

I can live with watching DSJ become a star as long as Ntikilina is a good player. We just can't have him Bust out on us.

But, watching his offensive skills, combined with his size, dribbling and passing acumen, and BBall IQ.... can't really blame NYK for the pick.

I just hope there was something that scared us off of DSJ, warranted or not, that moved us on to dSJ.... bc DSJ the more heralded prospect.

Then again.... it could be the deeper they looked until frenchie.... the more they liked.

Nets fans didn't care for that Lopez Russ trade it seems, our guy got a warm reception draft night.

In 2015, DEN took Mudiay over Booker. SAC took WCS over Myles Turner (and WHG)... it happens every draft.

We all believed Mudiay should've been our selection, and plenty were ticked off we took KP... 3 years later and DEN wants to dump Mudiay and most teams would happily trade for KP.

This doesn't mean much today, when looking to see if we took the right PG. DSJ was easy pick.... but, we decided to pass on him and go with the foreign kid.

Ntikilina is bigger, he doesn't have the knee surgery history on his medical reports, has been playing professionally for 2 years, his has the better "winning" background, and he's a better system fit.

I got no problems drafting guys that fit your system. You just better get it right. I think they believed this kid had less risk than DSJ.

There were some scouts, and teams, alarmed about DSJ's oncourt body language....

DSJ was also a poor defender in college.

We are placing emphasis on defense and passing, and it didn't hurt this kid is bigger and just as good an athelete. Also, seems like both are about the same with where they are with their jump shots.

We had our choice and we made our selection. Looking at Jax's draft history.... I'm not super alarmed we passed on dSJ (even if I'm slightly disappointed). This kid looks like he'll be a good player. Maybe not great... but I don't think he'll be a bust. I think dSJ is either bust or boom.

And, given health and some off field stuff.... I can live with a safe pick. Up to Frank now to work hard and for coaches to groom him.

mafra said:

In 2015, DEN took Mudiay over Booker. SAC took WCS over Myles Turner (and WHG)... it happens every draft.

We all believed Mudiay should've been our selection, and plenty were ticked off we took KP... 3 years later and DEN wants to dump Mudiay and most teams would happily trade for KP.

This doesn't mean much today, when looking to see if we took the right PG. DSJ was easy pick.... but, we decided to pass on him and go with the foreign kid.

Ntikilina is bigger, he doesn't have the knee surgery history on his medical reports, has been playing professionally for 2 years, his has the better "winning" background, and he's a better system fit.

I got no problems drafting guys that fit your system. You just better get it right. I think they believed this kid had less risk than DSJ.

There were some scouts, and teams, alarmed about DSJ's oncourt body language....

DSJ was also a poor defender in college.

We are placing emphasis on defense and passing, and it didn't hurt this kid is bigger and just as good an athelete. Also, seems like both are about the same with where they are with their jump shots.

We had our choice and we made our selection. Looking at Jax's draft history.... I'm not super alarmed we passed on dSJ (even if I'm slightly disappointed). This kid looks like he'll be a good player. Maybe not great... but I don't think he'll be a bust. I think dSJ is either bust or boom.

And, given health and some off field stuff.... I can live with a safe pick. Up to Frank now to work hard and for coaches to groom him.

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I have a problem with this line of thinking, although I think you broke it down fairly accurately. We're not going to be good next yr and that leaves 1 more yr left on Phil's contract. Our pick(s) everyone made shouldn't be tied to the system Phil is running. If Phil leaves after the follow season and we hire someone like Mark Jackson all of that goes out the window.

We actually could afford for DSJ or even(Monk/Mitchell) or traded down for multiple assets. I doubt Nitty will be better than Jackson or Giles to be quite Frank. We could afford for DSJ to be a bust because of where we're headed but we needed a chance at BOOM because of how far behind in talent compared to other rosters. Really our youth isn't better than half the league if not more. Phil should've played the lottery to it's true sense as in hit the LOTTERY.

I think it boiled down to them feeling both players had a chance to be special, but Ntikilina presented the lesser risk to be a bust.

Like you said, there were 5 guards most felt were in the same class, after the top 3 were gone...

DSJ, Ntikilina, Monk, Kennard, and Mitchell.

DSJ went 9th and the other 2 went 11-13. SAC was in a great position b/c they just took Fox, they have Buddy, so they didn't need another G. They knew they could trade from 10 to 15&20 bc they knew F/C would still be there bc the run on last top Gs were taking place.

Would I prefer Justin Jax and Harry Giles to Ntikilina? Tough call, but probably yeah....

But, for NY, they needed a PG. they could've risked it and lived with the results but odds were that all the PGs would be gone by 15.

I would prefer a stud PG over 2 decent, rotation type forwards. We all agree DSJ is worth rolling the dice, and would prefer that type of talent over the 2 decent prospects.

NYK believe Ntikilina is also that level of player. Otherwise, they trade down.... NY felt Frank is the better 2- way talent over the other options.

This is going to be another Mudiay vs KP situation.

I think if Ntikilina was playing at Mich St last year we would appreciate more what he is, and understand the pick.

I would've gone DSJ but I have to believe we went with Frank b/c they feel he'll be the better player in 5 years... regardless of system.

I think they debated and even leaned toward DSJ.... but his lack of effort on defense, defiance to coaching at times and poor body language on court, along with his medicals and bad record at NC St might've had more to do with tilting the scales, as opposed to Frank being a triangle fit.

I think the saw his size advantage and grittiness to want to play defense and this was more attractive than DSJ's explosive scoring ability.

Gonna be fun to see how this plays out next 5 years.

Dying to see him in summer leaguer. Want to see if he can stay in front of his man, he's a good but not great athlete so he may have trouble with the speed of the game and lets see how he does with the NBA 3 pt line and not the shorter Euro one. Being tall he's also got a high dribble, I want to see how he handles traps and double teams and how good his handle is. I wish the Knicks were in Vegas also, Orlando is the watered down version of summer league.

tiger0330 said:

Dying to see him in summer leaguer. Want to see if he can stay in front of his man, he's a good but not great athlete so he may have trouble with the speed of the game and lets see how he does with the NBA 3 pt line and not the shorter Euro one. Being tall he's also got a high dribble, I want to see how he handles traps and double teams and how good his handle is. I wish the Knicks were in Vegas also, Orlando is the watered down version of summer league.

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Remember, a lot of this scouting is predicated on natural gifts and talents but also on attempting to extrapolate this into the future....

You look at a kid's tools and the player he currently is then imagine, given his attitude and will and work ethic, what type of player he'll potentially become.

Hard to know if we think he's raw but will blossom b/c of what they believe is his destined trajectory.... or, did they find fault with DSJ in some way? And think regardless of how talented he is now.... they don't see as much growth in store?

Right or wrong, they made their choice.

Honestly with the draft you just never know. I don't think the point is that Frank Nitty fits the system better...it's that he's the type of player who could learn to thrive in *any* system. He doesn't need the ball in his hands all the time to be effective. He plays defense, has a good basketball IQ, hits shots, and looks to create for others. That's the type of player who can thrive anywhere and for any team. With DSJ his medicals have to scare you a bit, his body language doesn't look good, his defense is suspect, and his ability to do anything other than score is questionable. Don't get me wrong he's talented at what he does but Frank Nitty is the more complete player. There's also the possibility that DSJ just isn't a coachable player. Hard to say, but I'm guessing that definitely played a role in why Phil didn't pick him at 8

Ntilikina feels good about triangle: One scout who has watched Knicks first-round pick Frank Ntilikina for the past three years says he feels that he can fit well in the Knicks' triangle offense.

"If he develops appropriately, I don't think there will be many holes in his game. So I think he would be a very well-rounded guard to run the triangle offense," said Elan Vinokurov, president and owner of EV Hoops, a basketball scouting and consulting service. "He knows how to involve players, he reads the game well, he can analyze situations. It shouldn't be an issue."

What was he doing?

Broadway said:

I have a problem with this line of thinking, although I think you broke it down fairly accurately. We're not going to be good next yr and that leaves 1 more yr left on Phil's contract. Our pick(s) everyone made shouldn't be tied to the system Phil is running. If Phil leaves after the follow season and we hire someone like Mark Jackson all of that goes out the window.

We actually could afford for DSJ or even(Monk/Mitchell) or traded down for multiple assets. I doubt Nitty will be better than Jackson or Giles to be quite Frank. We could afford for DSJ to be a bust because of where we're headed but we needed a chance at BOOM because of how far behind in talent compared to other rosters. Really our youth isn't better than half the league if not more. Phil should've played the lottery to it's true sense as in hit the LOTTERY.

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excellent point Broadway and one thing about Mudiay, I mentioned this before, young PG's coming from overseas and not having played college ball have more catching up to do IMO, or more adjusting. The verdict is still out on Mudiay but truth be told had the knicks drafted him, he would still be the best guard on the team by far. And Denver is looking to move him because they have options, options from conducting themselves very well in the draft. Ie: Jamal Murray... makes mudiay somewhat expendable. Also consider they have a young stud center who they can run offense through.

Yes as mafra said, things happen in the draft it is not a perfect science, but you want to have a way of conducting business that puts you in position to make good decisions. Classi example the nuggets draft Mcdermot with their lottery pick. Now I can see this happening in NY, the talk would have been. "he is exactly the shooter we needed for the triangle" , " he gives us an elite shooter to put around carmelo". etc... instead of looking at him as a good shooter and somewhat limited player that we could parlay into more assets..

what did denver do? they traded the rights to Mcdermott which landed them Gary Harris and Jusif Nurkic, two first round picks. One is now a pivatol player in portland( dumb trade by denver lol), the other is a budding two way player in denver. Oh and with their second round pick, they landed a potential gold mine in Jokic.. ALL OF THIS IN THE SAME DRAFT. Denver transformed their teams future in one draft pretty much..

We have to continue to be critical of what we do and not make ourselves fall in love with players because we picked them....

DSJ is perfect fit for Horn's high pick and roll offense. Oh well.... too bad. We made our pick.... can't demand a re-do

mafra said:

DSJ is perfect fit for Horn's high pick and roll offense. Oh well.... too bad. We made our pick.... can't demand a re-do

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Yep, no sense crying over spilt milk. A guy did write they fired PJ at the wrong time, should have done it before the draft.

I don't want to see a single triangle play run in summer league either.

Just triangle concepts? Lol

mafra said:

Just triangle concepts? Lol

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Throw away all copies of Triangle for Dummies, Tex Winters Advanced Triangle Concepts for Coaches and How I won 11 Rings with the Triangle by PJ.

tiger0330 said:

Throw away all copies of Triangle for Dummies, Tex Winters Advanced Triangle Concepts for Coaches and How I won 11 Rings with the Triangle by PJ.

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i'm even going to go so far as to suggest that they remove the triangle from the logo, just to make sure haha. you know, kind of like the killers in those horror movies. never walk away assuming you've killed him. YOU GOTTA MAKE SURE MAN!

but on another note... any word if nitty is showing up for practice today? i'm assuming he is, because if he wasn't i'm sure the panic and soap opera would be all over the place.

and while we're bashing the triangle... why the hell is spike lee on the backpage of the daily news praising jesus or whatever? wasn't he the same dude who made that stupid movie for msg about the triangle? you remember, right? 'it's a way of life!' yeah, it sure was spike, it sure was.

and1 said:

and while we're bashing the triangle... why the hell is spike lee on the backpage of the daily news praising jesus or whatever? wasn't he the same dude who made that stupid movie for msg about the triangle? you remember, right? 'it's a way of life!' yeah, it sure was spike, it sure was.

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That was the Phil effect before we found out he knew nothing about being a President and GM. Reality set in quick when we found out how bad he was and the triangle wasn't some voodoo magic you could use to beat teams. The biggest Knicks fan is relieved like 90% of all Knicks fans that Big Chief Triangle is gone.