jimkcchief88
All Star
Who is going to take those 20-30 shots per night now???? And I totally agree the Knicks team defense is awful, but do really think that was all one players fault on a 12 man roster???
Breaking News: Melo to OKC
- Thread starter Broadway
- Start date
jimkcchief88
All Star
You only mentioned the losing seasons as a history revisionist would, I brought up the winners, as a realist should. Like a stated before, enjoy watching the Knicks without a legit NBA scorer and don't complain because you didn't appreciate the one we had.
and1
Rotation player
i'm HOPING it gets divvied up between guys who can get you points, guys like lee, WHG, the Q, THJ and now mcBuckets.
i'm praying KP doesn't see this as a green light to jack up 30 shots per game. he will do much better if he avoids falling into that trap.
oh yeah, i almost forgot about beasley haha.
Insider trade grades. Geez, for once I'd like to see the Knicks come out ahead in one of these things but OKC A- NYK C-.
[h=2]Oklahoma City Thunder: A-minus[/h]Within the past three months, the Thunder have gone from one extreme to another in terms of their shot creation around star Russell Westbrook. Having already acquired Paul George from the Indiana Pacers, Oklahoma City will now add Anthony, giving them two players whose usage rates were dramatically higher than that of any of Westbrook's teammates in 2016-17.
Again, the cost to the Thunder was incredibly low. Kanter is a useful, if overpaid, contributor off the bench. But his defensive deficiencies rendered him nearly unplayable during Oklahoma City's playoff series with the Houston Rockets, when he got on the floor for just 45 minutes over five games as the Thunder lost 4-1. McDermott is similarly limited at the defensive end of the court, which prevented Oklahoma City from fully taking advantage of his ability to space the floor.
The most valuable thing the Thunder gave up in this deal was Chicago's 2018 second-round pick, which figures to be near the top of the round. The Bulls' projected win total, based on ESPN's real plus-minus, is third-lowest in the NBA.
The Thunder can now put out a lineup better equipped to match up with the Golden State Warriors and other opponents with effective small-ball attacks. George's arrival allows Andre Roberson to defend power forwards, the role he played against Golden State in the 2016 Western Conference finals when Billy Donovan went small to match up. Playing Roberson as a 4 on offense hides his shortcomings as a shooter.
Anthony's arrival also means the Thunder are less dependent on Patrick Patterson, who underwent knee surgery last month, not long after signing with Oklahoma City as a free agent. Patterson could provide more shooting if he plays ahead of Roberson in a postseason setting, but the Thunder no longer need him to start if his rehab is slower than anticipated.
The big question for Oklahoma City is how Westbrook, George and Anthony will share the load offensively. The Westbrook-George pairing figured to work similarly to Westbrook and Kevin Durant, but the Thunder never had a third starter as offensive-minded as Anthony alongside Westbrook. Between 2009-10 and Durant's departure, the highest usage rate for an Oklahoma City starter besides the two stars was Kanter's 23.6 percent mark in 2015-16. (Kanter also had a 23.9 percent usage rate in 2014-15, which he split between the Thunder and the Utah Jazz.) Anthony's usage rate was 29.1 percent last season, and that was his lowest mark since his rookie season.
The success of this partnership will be determined in large part by Anthony's ability to become more efficient in a smaller role. Hope for that is provided by Anthony's success with the USA National Team in the Olympics and other international competitions. However, Anthony benefited there from the shorter FIBA 3-point line. He'll spend far more time in a catch-and-shoot role this season and needs to make 3s at an above-average rate, as he did in 2016-17 (35.9 percent).
I'm not convinced that adding Anthony makes Oklahoma City the biggest threat to the Warriors in the West. The Rockets still look like a deeper team, albeit with fit questions of their own. But at this low price, there's no question this was a chance worth taking for the Thunder.
The biggest price may be the literal cost to ownership. Adding Anthony's salary, even without his trade bonus (waived to complete the trade) takes Oklahoma City even deeper into the luxury tax. Barring a midseason move to shed payroll, the Thunder are looking at paying nearly $30 million in taxes. Anthony's 2018-19 player option also limits Oklahoma City's flexibility next summer should George or Westbrook (or both) depart, although Anthony expects that he may opt out of his contract as well. And in the case that all three players return, the Thunder would be staring at an enormous repeater tax bill.
[h=2]New York Knicks: C-minus[/h]According to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski, Knicks general manager Scott Perry was looking for a scoring wing, short-term contracts and draft picks in an Anthony trade. Consider New York 1-for-3 in accomplishing those goals.
At least New York isn't tied to long-term contracts as a result of this deal. McDermott is in the final season of his rookie contract, while Kanter -- like Anthony -- has a 2018-19 player option. With limited cap space available, the market for centers could be rough, so I'd expect Kanter to opt in. In that case, the Knicks aren't creating much cap relief in the summer of 2018 as compared to Anthony's player option. Still, this certainly isn't as bad as taking on the remaining three years of Ryan Anderson's contract, which likely would have been required of any trade with the Rockets.
Kanter doesn't really fill a need for New York, which already has Willy Hernangomez, a similar prospect with more defensive potential. With Hernangomez, Kanter, Joakim Noah and Kyle O'Quinn the Knicks are overflowing at the center position, despite the fact that they should probably be getting minutes there for power forward Kristaps Porzingis. I'd expect New York to explore the trade market for Kanter, which is unlikely to yield much value in return.
At this point, it was unlikely the Knicks would get much in return for Anthony. His no-trade clause limited their options, and Anthony is no longer a star player worth his maximum contract. More than anything, what the Knicks get out of this deal is the ability to move on from the ugly end to the Anthony era in the Big Apple. There's no longer any obligation to try to win on Anthony's timetable, which may have been a factor in the awful Noah contract, and by making the trade now, New York avoids the awkwardness of bringing Anthony to training camp with both sides eager for a deal.
jimkcchief88
All Star
It's funny that everyone bitches about Melo's defense, we are bringing in an overpaid benchwarmer that plays no defense either
*
*jimkcchief88
All Star
Trust me KP is gonna be sitting outside gunning along with CLEE,THJ, and now McBrickets who was so awful the Bullies gave up and told him to hit the bricks because he shot so many
mafra
Legend
They best part of this trade is the fact we are just as good today as we were yesterday while also slightly improving our chance to rebuild moving forward.
We get a pick in the low 30s and we may have a chance to trade Kanter Or McDermott at the deadline. We also have more cap space next summer.
It was clear we weren't gonna get much for Melo.... I'm not jumping up and down about this deal....
But.... if KP busts out and THJr lives up to his contract, and Beasley-Kanter-McDermott-Lee help out with the scoring.... there's a chance
We may be exciting to watch.
mafra
Legend
Wojo just wrote about what I suspected, that both CLE and HOU were only offering junk. POR might've had best package but Melo wouldn't waive NTC to move out West.
He said NYK thought about OKC's 1st from this year (Ferguson).... and OKC tried to procur a 1st for NY, but ultimately NY agreed on the Chi 2nd, b/c CHI is gonna be awful and most often picks in the 31-35 range better than picks in the 25-30 (bc of contractual stuff).
"Kanter, 25, was a first-round pick of the Utah Jazz in 2011. He averaged 14.3 points and 6.7 rebounds for Oklahoma City last season, despite only playing 21.3 minutes per game.
Kanter posted a goodbye message to Oklahoma City fans on social media Saturday afternoon. He thanked the organization and the state of Oklahoma and added, "I want to say, please beat the Warriors for me. Please. I'm gonna be watching that game, so please beat the Warriors for me."
McDermott, 25, was the No. 11 overall draft pick in 2014. He was the NCAA's leading scorer that year, averaging 26.7 points per game as a senior at Creighton. He averaged 6.6 points and 19.5 minutes in 22 games for the Thunder after the February trade."
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20793120/new-york-knicks-agree-trade-carmelo-anthony-oklahoma-city-thunder
He said NYK thought about OKC's 1st from this year (Ferguson).... and OKC tried to procur a 1st for NY, but ultimately NY agreed on the Chi 2nd, b/c CHI is gonna be awful and most often picks in the 31-35 range better than picks in the 25-30 (bc of contractual stuff).
"Kanter, 25, was a first-round pick of the Utah Jazz in 2011. He averaged 14.3 points and 6.7 rebounds for Oklahoma City last season, despite only playing 21.3 minutes per game.
Kanter posted a goodbye message to Oklahoma City fans on social media Saturday afternoon. He thanked the organization and the state of Oklahoma and added, "I want to say, please beat the Warriors for me. Please. I'm gonna be watching that game, so please beat the Warriors for me."
McDermott, 25, was the No. 11 overall draft pick in 2014. He was the NCAA's leading scorer that year, averaging 26.7 points per game as a senior at Creighton. He averaged 6.6 points and 19.5 minutes in 22 games for the Thunder after the February trade."
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20793120/new-york-knicks-agree-trade-carmelo-anthony-oklahoma-city-thunder
More and more details have come out, many of which follow along the lines of what people already suspected.
Portland had the best assets to offer, but Melo did not want to move to the Pacific Northwest.
Cleveland was not going to include Brooklyn's 1st round pick, so had nothing of value to offer.
Houston could have gotten the deal done by trading Eric Gordon and Trevor Ariza, but instead wanted the Knicks to take Ryan Anderson. Not sure how this will affect the Morey/Chris Paul relationship. I am still pretty sure Paul went to Houston with the expectation Morey would be able to pull off the Melo trade.
Last but not least, Enes Kanter with the best quote from someone being traded to the Knicks: "People texted me like I died or something".
Portland had the best assets to offer, but Melo did not want to move to the Pacific Northwest.
Cleveland was not going to include Brooklyn's 1st round pick, so had nothing of value to offer.
Houston could have gotten the deal done by trading Eric Gordon and Trevor Ariza, but instead wanted the Knicks to take Ryan Anderson. Not sure how this will affect the Morey/Chris Paul relationship. I am still pretty sure Paul went to Houston with the expectation Morey would be able to pull off the Melo trade.
Last but not least, Enes Kanter with the best quote from someone being traded to the Knicks: "People texted me like I died or something".
Kanter has averaged 21.6, 21.7 and 24.3 (last year) and has over 10rb his last 3 years with OKC per 36 mins. You would think he would start but the numbers say he may be more productive coming off the bench. Noah is going to have a tough time breaking into the rotation after that 10 game suspension and layoff from his injury. I think they'll stretch him if he can't get meaningful minutes by Jan. Kanter is a low post presence we haven't had since Eddie Curry, let's see if Horn can utilize him in his offense.
Dougie Mcbuckets, more like Dougie McBust I don't have much hope for, his contract expires this season when he can become a restricted FA but I doubt he's a Knick beyond this season.
eace:
mafra
Legend
You can make the argument that Kanter is a much better fit for this team, as constructed this year, than Melo.
Kanter and Noah will provide guidance and leadership for KP and WHG....
Kanter can make up for the loss of offense.... Plus, we have MB....
Dougie can help spread the court.
If we flip either of them for something and if we find a real gem with the pick.... then we did well.
Kanter and Noah will provide guidance and leadership for KP and WHG....
Kanter can make up for the loss of offense.... Plus, we have MB....
Dougie can help spread the court.
If we flip either of them for something and if we find a real gem with the pick.... then we did well.
Pretty much supports what I figured. Knicks are more concerned about finances which is really pointless when you look at Knicks financials going forward. The difference between Eric Gordon and Anderson's contracts in terms of cap hit was $7mil in that 3rd yr(overall about $20mil yr/yr). Ariza's deal would have expired after this season. That $7mil was a total non factor really
So I'm pretty sure had we'd agreed to take Anderson and expanded the deal slightly we could've extracted a 1st and maybe a 2nd rounder or so
Melo/Kuz/Randle
for
Anderson/Ariza/1st(2020)/2 2nd(2018-2020)
If Rockets insisted on keeping Ariza...find a 3rd team that needed/would've like to dump a short term contract near cap or under and send to us and send them a future asset down the road. Like say Darrell Arthur from Denver, Ersan Illyasova from Atlanta, etc etc
We didn't really want to send him to Rockets, we wanted him to expand list to send him to a destination to save money and non Phil Jackson related.
Last edited:
mafra
Legend
To me, it's pretty simple:
1) HOU offered pretty much a straight up swap of Ryno for Melo.
2) CLE offered Shump and Frye for Melo.
3) We know the OKC package.
These were our 3 options. The 4th choice was to keep Melo and re-evaluate situation come Feb.
So, given these 4 options.... what do you do if you are Perry?
I doubt anybody was offering a 1st, but even if HOU dangled their 2020 1st.... it's not more valuable than a 2018 second rounder.
(The 33rd pick in 2018 is more valuable than the 26th pick in 2020, IMHO)
We can debate hypotheticals all day and night, but the truth is nobody was running to deal for Melo.
It's clear that both HOU and CLE would only entertain a trade if it was pretty much a NYK dump in their lap.
We only got "this good of a deal" b/c of Perry's ties to OKC and fact an old Syracuse recruiter is on the OKC staff.
I highly doubt Perry cares where Melo went... he wanted best deal he could get.
Perry wanted Gordon and ariza bc they fit what he wanted... a wing scorer... Ryno plays spot KP does, so not only is his contract a bad one but he is also a bad roster fit.
It's funny bc Morrey is normally the aggressive GM.... but the fact he stood down speaks volumes for HOU's true interest.... Dantoni probably urged them to do nothing.
Presti is more desperate bc he dealt Harden and KD left him.
Last edited:
You only mentioned the losing seasons as a history revisionist would, I brought up the winners, as a realist should. Like a stated before, enjoy watching the Knicks without a legit NBA scorer and don't complain because you didn't appreciate the one we had.
one season of winning and u are the realist... and it was '4' years ago and u should phase it singularly... rather then in the plural ... but ok... tho i do agree with ya we now dont have a legit scorer.. BUT... at some point we have to move on... would we have more wins with Me-Lo... i think yes... is that necessarily a good thing, probably not if u wanta get the highest draft pick... tho with the knicks luck, they can go 0-82 , and not end up with the #1 pick...
Presti is not desperate, he gave up hardly anything to get Melo and OKC never once contacted Knicks until Melo opened up his list and included them. Same with Indy...Pritchard could've traded PG13 for a better package but like Knicks out of spite traded him to a team for a breakeven/lesser package.
Desperate is doing what Knicks did in trading for Melo and Bargs and offering Amar'e $100mil
mafra
Legend
I still don't get why you keep saying we dealt Melo for a lesser package? Facts suggest otherwise, but I guess you believe there was another offer out there we haven't heard surface yet.
Presti sent Harden to HOU for nothing. Dealt Ibaka to ORL for young assets then flipped those to Indy for a 1yr rental. OKC was supposed to be what GSW are right now.
And, if Paul, Melo, RW all leave after the season.... Geez, OKC would go from having KD, RW, Harden and Ibaka to having nothing.
If that's not desperate, I need that term defined for me then.
The Knicks far from desperate, bc the franchise prints money. Foolish and asinine is why those moves were made -- and all have dolan's stupid fingerprints on them.