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  1. #1
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    Default Jeff Hornacek says coach Kurt Rambis won't run Knicks defense this season

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    I guess it were Phil idea last season to make Rambis the defensive coordinated coach .. and every game last season i blamed Hornacek for the no effort on the defensive side of the court.
    The article would've been much better if Horn act like a real head coach and FIRED Rambis the week before training camp.

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    It is a reasonable question to ask: With PJ gone, what is keeping Kurt Rambis employed with the Knicks?

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    What is Horn talking bout the same no team-effort on defense were played exactly how Rambis coached it in the Knicks first preseason game vs the LOTTERY Nets .. the Nets scored 115 pts giving 13 of their players double-digit minutes of playingtime compared to the Knicks giving 11 players double-digit minute of playing time all 11 players were Keepers for the up coming season.
    The Knicks perimeter defense were so poor it let the Nets score 50% from the 3 pt line, the Nets hit 16 3's on the Knicks.
    The Knicks uptempo offense were poor because it showed no trap defense after the Knicks scored letting the Nets uptempo offense score too.

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    Fans can blame the coach or the defensive assistant all they want but you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. We had two horrible defenders gobbling up 40% of the starting lineup last year, but everyone knows that two bad defenders on the court at the same time is an impossible hurdle. Now that Rose and Melo are gone, the coach has to put the best five defenders out there for the majority of minutes. The five best defenders the Knicks have at the moment are:

    Porzingis
    Frank
    Lee
    Baker
    WHG
    Thomas
    Followed by not good, below average defenders:

    Hardaway
    McDermot
    Kanter
    Noah

    Now everyone knows that Hardaway absolutely is going to start, he has to start. So the Knicks will likely look like this:

    Frank and Lee in the backcourt, with Hardaway, KP, and Hernangomez up front. Will this squad gel? It's hard to predict but a defensive identity can't be forged unless you play five guys who can actually play defense or at least try to play defense with the right amount of energy and heart. That's why Baker should see plenty of minutes spelling Frank or Lee or Hardaway, while you hope that Kanter's and McDermott's weaknesses can be covered by the others Thomas and O'Quinn.

  5. #5
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    Originally Posted by dk7th
    Fans can blame the coach or the defensive assistant all they want but you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. We had two horrible defenders gobbling up 40% of the starting lineup last year, but everyone knows that two bad defenders on the court at the same time is an impossible hurdle. Now that Rose and Melo are gone, the coach has to put the best five defenders out there for the majority of minutes. The five best defenders the Knicks have at the moment are:

    Porzingis
    Frank
    Lee
    Baker
    WHG
    Thomas
    Followed by not good, below average defenders:

    Hardaway
    McDermot
    Kanter
    Noah

    Now everyone knows that Hardaway absolutely is going to start, he has to start. So the Knicks will likely look like this:

    Frank and Lee in the backcourt, with Hardaway, KP, and Hernangomez up front. Will this squad gel? It's hard to predict but a defensive identity can't be forged unless you play five guys who can actually play defense or at least try to play defense with the right amount of energy and heart. That's why Baker should see plenty of minutes spelling Frank or Lee or Hardaway, while you hope that Kanter's and McDermott's weaknesses can be covered by the others Thomas and O'Quinn.
    There is no solution with this roster defensively at the moment. I'd probably put the best offensive vision out there to help establish some kind of team identity which we have absolutely none of. We play the Rockets tonight, better hope they sit all their high rotation players because it's gonna be an ugly showing.
    Last edited by Broadway; Oct 09, 2017 at 13:30.

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    Originally Posted by Broadway
    There is no solution with this roster defensively at the moment. I'd probably put the best offensive vision out there to help establish some kind of team identity which we have absolutely none of. We play the Rockets tonight, better hope they sit all their high rotation players because it's gonna be an ugly showing.
    I hear you but that means that the press conferences were just a bunch of hooey regarding wanting to forge a "defensive identity." Also I am not going to make any conclusions after two summer-leaguish preseason games. In a rebuilding season like this one I am willing to be more patient with all this juggling we are seeing but at the same time expect Hornacek to settle on his 8-9 guys by Game 1.

    That means, by process of elimination, that the last minute additions/one-year contracts/non-guaranteeds of the vets like Beasley, Sessions, and Jack are not part of the mix. Dotson, I believe, will be sent to Westchester. Meanwhile Kuzminskas remains as the tenth guy likely to play ahead of those others unless Hornacek wants him to fight it out with Lance Thomas and McDermott.

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    Originally Posted by dk7th
    I hear you but that means that the press conferences were just a bunch of hooey regarding wanting to forge a "defensive identity." Also I am not going to make any conclusions after two summer-leaguish preseason games. In a rebuilding season like this one I am willing to be more patient with all this juggling we are seeing but at the same time expect Hornacek to settle on his 8-9 guys by Game 1.

    That means, by process of elimination, that the last minute additions/one-year contracts/non-guaranteeds of the vets like Beasley, Sessions, and Jack are not part of the mix. Dotson, I believe, will be sent to Westchester. Meanwhile Kuzminskas remains as the tenth guy likely to play ahead of those others unless Hornacek wants him to fight it out with Lance Thomas and McDermott.

    "Well Actually"...lol

    We were also told "Tim Hardaway Jr and under yrs guys" so I'm sure this organization is sparking the Red/Green/Blue wires at present. I was rolling with the hooey of best offense that takes advantage of the youth on this team. I do want a set rotation(as soon as possible) with flexibility to tinker here and there. Stability is very important so I don't want Hornacek playing pick a card any card with the roster

    We always have excuses with this team and organization and I'm tired of them. I mean look at this thread, supposedly the excuse was RAMBIS(he's garbage but) we know that's a crock of bull too
    Last edited by Broadway; Oct 09, 2017 at 18:11.

  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by Broadway
    "Well Actually"...lol

    We were also told "Tim Hardaway Jr and under yrs guys" so I'm sure this organization is sparking the Red/Green/Blue wires at present. I was rolling with the hooey of best offense that takes advantage of the youth on this team. I do want a set rotation(as soon as possible) with flexibility to tinker here and there. Stability is very important so I don't want Hornacek playing pick a card any card with the roster

    We always have excuses with this team and organization and I'm tired of them. I mean look at this thread, supposedly the excuse was RAMBIS(he's garbage but) we know that's a crock of bull too

    You know what though? I am having a harder time envisioning them gelling on offense-- I mean Frank, Lee, THJ, KP, WHG/Kanter. Maybe they'll be a decent fastbreak squad? At the same time I don't see anyone displacing them from starting, and for the same reason(s) I already stated. So by default I really WANT them to focus on defense LOL.

    Vegas et. al. have them between 29 and 31 wins. My thinking was that by improved defense alone they could win closer to 38 games. Now I have to question that although, I repeat, I want to see the 26+ MPG guys play a dozen games or so together before I resign myself...
    Last edited by dk7th; Oct 09, 2017 at 18:33. Reason: forgot a word

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    Originally Posted by dk7th
    You know what though? I am having a harder time envisioning them gelling on offense-- I mean Frank, Lee, THJ, KP, WHG/Kanter. Maybe they'll be a decent fastbreak squad? At the same time I don't see anyone displacing them from starting, and for the same reason(s) I already stated. So by default I really WANT them to focus on defense LOL.

    Vegas et. al. have them between 29 and 31 wins. My thinking was that by improved defense alone they could win closer to 38 games. Now I have to question that although, I repeat, I want to see the 26+ MPG guys play a dozen games or so together before I resign myself...
    By default "defense" should always be the core import of what a team does, this team is going to allow 110ppg no matter what they do. The key is to not get beat by 10-15pts a night by being somewhat offensively competent since this is the obvious strength of the team.

    Would rather see McDermott/Baker more than Lee and Kuz/Dotson more than Beasley. Let the kids play. If anything with the money dished out THJR and Baker, much should be demanded of them.

    If everything breaks right we might win 32gms but I'm hoping for Top 5 worse record for a chance at Doncic/Bagley/Porter
    Last edited by Broadway; Oct 09, 2017 at 20:31.

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    Originally Posted by Broadway
    that's a shame, but again this is pre-season, meaningless games. of course it would be great to have them out there to build chemistry, etc. but the more important thing right now is to make sure they're right for the regular season.
    but yeah, this does look like the start of a typical knicks perfect storm.
    blame vegas

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    Originally Posted by and1
    that's a shame, but again this is pre-season, meaningless games. of course it would be great to have them out there to build chemistry, etc. but the more important thing right now is to make sure they're right for the regular season.
    but yeah, this does look like the start of a typical knicks perfect storm.
    Hornacek need to be more worried about getting 10 out of 15 guys on the roster to perform TEAM-DEFENSE for 48 minutes a night before the season start than worried bout 2 rookies (Frank n KP) not playing in the preseason n opening game.
    This is a TEAM sport! I think to much ISO-Melo rubbed off on the Knicks coaching staff.
    I wonder who Hornacek gonna select to blame the Knicks preseason DEFENSE on ???

  13. #13
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    With Phil Jackson out, the Knicks are relying more on analytics, according to Jeff Hornacek, but he doesn’t want to get too crazy with it in making playing-time decisions.

    Knicks president Steve Mills, when first hired to run the show in place of Glen Grunwald in 2013, was hailed by owner James Dolan for being ready to install a deeper analytics program. Mills lasted as the top guy for only six months, until old-schooler Jackson came aboard.

    In new general manager Scott Perry, Mills hired a personnel man, according to sources, who is a strong proponent of advanced statistics. The growing trend is to determine a player’s worth more on his mathematical numbers rather than watching on-court effectiveness with the eye.

    Rockets GM Daryl Morey was at the forefront of NBA’s analytics movement — stressing 3-pointers and paint shots — and they showed it Monday at the Garden with a shot chart virtually bereft of mid-range attempts.


    In contrast, Jackson’s triangle emphasized mid-range jumpers, considered the game’s most inefficient shot.

    Hornacek believes the organization now falls somewhere in the middle.


    Jeff Hornacek will likely use analytics to deploy rookie Frank Ntilikina more now that Phil Jackson is gone.Charles Wenzelberg
    “(We’e doing it) a fair amount,’’ Hornacek said. “I’m not sure we’re as much as other teams, but I’m sure we’re more than other teams. I heard some organizations, you can develop draft picks and starting lineups just looking at analytics.’’

    Hornacek thinks the newfangled numbers are occasionally overemphasized, especially deciphering defensive aptitude with “defensive ratings.”

    “What’s the defensive analytics?’’ Hornacek said. “All those numbers, you’re out there with five guys. One guy’s numbers might not be great but it might not be him. Analytics are good to look at and analyze things, but sometimes it can throw some confusion in there. I was an accounting major. You make the numbers look the way you want sometimes.”


    The topic arose when Hornacek discussed the amount of pick-and-rolls he wants to run and whether it always involves the point guard. Hornacek said he doesn’t have an explosive point guard that can attack the rim off picks like last season with Derrick Rose.

    Hornacek said the club does a heavy analysis on pick-and-roll efficiency. Ironically, Jackson’s triangle requires few pick-and-rolls. The Knicks are only running triangle actions on post-up plays.

    “We have internal stuff — points per possession is always a good one on what you’re getting out of that pick and roll,’’ Hornacek said. “A lot of times you look at it, we run the pick and roll and getting 1.1 points per possession, but when with the point guard, we’re scoring 0.9. But when he hits the roller, we’re scoring 1.3. You find those trends. That will be a bigger trend for us is playing out of the roller.”


    Second-year small forward Mindaugas Kuzminskas, out with a calf strain, will make his preseason debut Friday against the Wizards. Kuzminskas will find it hard to make the rotation after additions of Michael Beasley and Doug McDermott and the leadership emergence of Lance Thomas. … C Joakim Noah has missed the past two practices with an illness and won’t play Friday. Hornacek had told Noah he wouldn’t get much time in exhibitions because he will miss the first 12 games with a drug suspension.

  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by mafra
    With Phil Jackson out, the Knicks are relying more on analytics, according to Jeff Hornacek, but he doesn’t want to get too crazy with it in making playing-time decisions.

    Knicks president Steve Mills, when first hired to run the show in place of Glen Grunwald in 2013, was hailed by owner James Dolan for being ready to install a deeper analytics program. Mills lasted as the top guy for only six months, until old-schooler Jackson came aboard.

    In new general manager Scott Perry, Mills hired a personnel man, according to sources, who is a strong proponent of advanced statistics. The growing trend is to determine a player’s worth more on his mathematical numbers rather than watching on-court effectiveness with the eye.

    Rockets GM Daryl Morey was at the forefront of NBA’s analytics movement — stressing 3-pointers and paint shots — and they showed it Monday at the Garden with a shot chart virtually bereft of mid-range attempts.


    In contrast, Jackson’s triangle emphasized mid-range jumpers, considered the game’s most inefficient shot.

    Hornacek believes the organization now falls somewhere in the middle.


    Jeff Hornacek will likely use analytics to deploy rookie Frank Ntilikina more now that Phil Jackson is gone.Charles Wenzelberg
    “(We’e doing it) a fair amount,’’ Hornacek said. “I’m not sure we’re as much as other teams, but I’m sure we’re more than other teams. I heard some organizations, you can develop draft picks and starting lineups just looking at analytics.’’

    Hornacek thinks the newfangled numbers are occasionally overemphasized, especially deciphering defensive aptitude with “defensive ratings.”

    “What’s the defensive analytics?’’ Hornacek said. “All those numbers, you’re out there with five guys. One guy’s numbers might not be great but it might not be him. Analytics are good to look at and analyze things, but sometimes it can throw some confusion in there. I was an accounting major. You make the numbers look the way you want sometimes.”


    The topic arose when Hornacek discussed the amount of pick-and-rolls he wants to run and whether it always involves the point guard. Hornacek said he doesn’t have an explosive point guard that can attack the rim off picks like last season with Derrick Rose.

    Hornacek said the club does a heavy analysis on pick-and-roll efficiency. Ironically, Jackson’s triangle requires few pick-and-rolls. The Knicks are only running triangle actions on post-up plays.

    “We have internal stuff — points per possession is always a good one on what you’re getting out of that pick and roll,’’ Hornacek said. “A lot of times you look at it, we run the pick and roll and getting 1.1 points per possession, but when with the point guard, we’re scoring 0.9. But when he hits the roller, we’re scoring 1.3. You find those trends. That will be a bigger trend for us is playing out of the roller.”


    Second-year small forward Mindaugas Kuzminskas, out with a calf strain, will make his preseason debut Friday against the Wizards. Kuzminskas will find it hard to make the rotation after additions of Michael Beasley and Doug McDermott and the leadership emergence of Lance Thomas. … C Joakim Noah has missed the past two practices with an illness and won’t play Friday. Hornacek had told Noah he wouldn’t get much time in exhibitions because he will miss the first 12 games with a drug suspension.
    Maf did you find some of this article confusing? I did, but I'll wait on pointing out specifics until I read a reply from you and not jump to the Contrarian Clancy quite yet

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    Confusing that it says we're gonna lean more towards analytics but then the coach says there are more important things to consider than stats.

    An then there's our free agent signings and trade... which didn't seem to be based on numbers.

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