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  1. #1
    Veteran DontForgetDerekHarper's Avatar
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    Default Here we go again. Another Knicks Coach sinking a season because he loves a player.

    LANCE THOMAS.

    the most ineffective starting basketball player in the NBA>

    we have seen this before.

    Larry brown and his love for Jackie Butler
    Zeke Thomas and his love for Jared Jefferies

    Now Hornacek is giving us another starting line up black hole in Lance Thomas.

    Mcdermott and Beasley should be our SF rotation at all costs.

    Thomas isnt stopping any one and trying to replicate other teams who throw in a defender amidst their offensive go to players with this idiot isnt working.

    We are too talented and play too hard to tank.

    I would rather have Lee at small forward and start Frank and Jack together in the back court. Frank has proven he can guard 2 guards and is significantly more productive than Thomas while providing the same if not better defensive range. Courtney Lee is a solid defender as well.

    I just dont understand it.

    I dont understand Kanter not playing down the stretch either. Oquinn is ok but the name of the game is scoring.

    This basketball team is never going to excel in close games through defense, our strength at the present moment is our ability to score at all 5 positions.

    when you throw oquinn out there who is highly inconsistent on the offensive end with Lance Thomas who shoots the ball like his knees are going to break if he jumps too high you are leaving yourself in the horrible position of forcing Beasley and Porzingas to play hero ball.

    You have to have mcdermott and Kanter on the floor to close games along with beasley frank and porzingas.

    all 5 can score, get to the line,and you have 2 stretch players to knock down threes if beasley or kanter gets double teamed which is what you need to do in order to stop them in the post.

    Hornacek has officially proclaimed himself as another jack@ss in the long line of foolhearted coaches to take the helm here.

    Lets just hope he wakes up soon.
    seem afraid

  2. #2
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    Beasley is the only player on our team who can create his own shot other than KP. I like Beasley as a stretch 4 more than I like him as a SF given the make-up of our roster.

    In my mind, Beasley should be coming into the game when KP comes out. I didnít see the benefit to them playing together against the Bulls and to reduce his playing time when THJ comes back seems strange.

  3. #3
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    Oh, and as far as how to open up a spot for THJ when he returns, it seems simple. Itís time to trade Courtney Lee. I like Lee, but he doesnít fit the trajectory of this team anymore.

  4. #4
    Veteran DontForgetDerekHarper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by htr10
    Oh, and as far as how to open up a spot for THJ when he returns, it seems simple. Itís time to trade Courtney Lee. I like Lee, but he doesnít fit the trajectory of this team anymore.

    I agree with all of that but this team talks about playoffs,

    Playoffs...

    you wanna talk to me about playoffs...

    lol.

    but if we are going to talk about playoffs we cant have a guy in our starting line up that wouldnt crack the rotation of any...ANY other playoff team in this league.

    let alone start.

    then start mcdermott.

    rotate mcdermott, beasley and lee and that is it at the 3 spot.
    seem afraid

  5. #5
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    Originally Posted by DontForgetDerekHarper
    I agree with all of that but this team talks about playoffs,

    Playoffs...

    you wanna talk to me about playoffs...

    lol.

    but if we are going to talk about playoffs we cant have a guy in our starting line up that wouldnt crack the rotation of any...ANY other playoff team in this league.

    let alone start.

    then start mcdermott.

    rotate mcdermott, beasley and lee and that is it at the 3 spot.
    I donít like Lance Thomas much either, but he does generally contain whoever he is defending. Who else on this team is going to guard a guy like Tatum on Boston? We really only have two above average perimeter defenders, Ntilikina against guards and Thomas against forwards. I donít think Lee is as good defensively as he used to be, but maybe you could include him too.

  6. #6
    Veteran tiger0330's Avatar
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    Default Naw NO D

    LT is a captain on the team and that tells you he's got leadership intangibles along with the fact Horn considers him the Knicks best defender. That's the tone they want to set on the team after that all offense NO D squad from last year. That said I've been posting that we need to find a bigger role for Beas so getting him minutes has to come at the expense of someone. Tim comes back, Lance goes back to the bench and CLee plays the 3, you're not starting Beas over CLee with how well CLee is playing so when Tim comes back Beas replaces either KP or CLee not LT. I think Horn is right, its going to be tough to find minutes for everyone when Tim is back but that's what Horn gets paid for to figure it out. I just don't want to see any DNP like Beas was getting and lets increase his minutes maybe by having him start against teams he matches up well against.
    Last edited by tiger0330; Jan 12, 2018 at 13:47.

  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by DontForgetDerekHarper
    I agree with all of that but this team talks about playoffs,

    Playoffs...

    you wanna talk to me about playoffs...

    lol.

    but if we are going to talk about playoffs we cant have a guy in our starting line up that wouldnt crack the rotation of any...ANY other playoff team in this league.

    let alone start.

    then start mcdermott.

    rotate mcdermott, beasley and lee and that is it at the 3 spot.
    I said day 1 start McDermott if for nothing else we may have boosted his trade value and because we were told...

    Knicks GM Scott Perry on the Carmelo Anthony trade: "We acquired two 25-year-old players in this deal that we can develop, while sticking with our overall strategy of emphasizing youth and athleticism. With this trade, we have added scoring and aggressiveness to our frontcourt, and bolstered the team's perimeter shooting. We are glad to have finalized a trade that made sense for all of us."
    We send you our condolences McDermott, Knits, Dotson, WHG, Burke, Baker

  8. #8
    Veteran DontForgetDerekHarper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Broadway
    I said day 1 start McDermott if for nothing else we may have boosted his trade value and because we were told...



    We send you our condolences McDermott, Knits, Dotson, WHG, Burke, Baker

    I dont want to talk about what ap layer can and cannot do in terms of their role in Honracek's eyes.

    Thomas as the defender etc etc etc.

    the fact remains when you look at him with your naked eye and just see the flow of the game; he hesitates, gathers himself under the basket to miss easy layups and hides behind the other players on offense in order to avoid having to take shots.

    he isnt aggressive enough and leaves dudes stranded all of the time on the offensive end; which causes more turnovers leading to harder defensive possessions game after game.

    how can no one see this ?

    as far as containing other players. Lance Thomas is one of the worst in the league statistically as an individual defender.

    Defensive win shares he is behind carmelo anthony.

    I know he doesnt play as many minutes but advanced stats take that into account in terms of sample sizes.

    IN short

    THOMAS IS not a starting NBA PLAYER In todays league and i am tired of the knicks starting non NBA starting players on their roster, its been going on for a decade and I am over it.

    goodbye.
    seem afraid

  9. #9
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Broadway
    I said day 1 start McDermott if for nothing else we may have boosted his trade value and because we were told...



    We send you our condolences McDermott, Knits, Dotson, WHG, Burke, Baker
    lol

    After this bad stretch the Knicks have had, you might have something with your opinion, Broadway. If guys such as Jack lead the team to a lot more wins, then fine, let that veteran continue to do his thing because it's leadership for the young guys, but when it doesn't happen that often, then maybe it's time to let the young guys get more of a shot. I'm not saying Hornacek is wrong all the time, heck he gave Ntilikina a lot of minutes and let him close games earlier in the season, but in my opinion, the team should not tank, but at this point maybe you should be letting the younger guys close out games. It wouldn't be tanking, it might help their potential. He's not even having Kanter, who's young AND a veteran close out games.

    I don't understand not playing Noah. He may or may not be part of the Knicks' long-term plan, but when healthy nobody plays harder than him, and he's not gonna take any game winners.

    The organization is better now, but there's areas it needs a lot of improvement on.


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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by DontForgetDerekHarper
    I dont want to talk about what ap layer can and cannot do in terms of their role in Honracek's eyes.

    Thomas as the defender etc etc etc.

    the fact remains when you look at him with your naked eye and just see the flow of the game; he hesitates, gathers himself under the basket to miss easy layups and hides behind the other players on offense in order to avoid having to take shots.

    he isnt aggressive enough and leaves dudes stranded all of the time on the offensive end; which causes more turnovers leading to harder defensive possessions game after game.

    how can no one see this ?

    as far as containing other players. Lance Thomas is one of the worst in the league statistically as an individual defender.

    Defensive win shares he is behind carmelo anthony.

    I know he doesnt play as many minutes but advanced stats take that into account in terms of sample sizes.

    IN short

    THOMAS IS not a starting NBA PLAYER In todays league and i am tired of the knicks starting non NBA starting players on their roster, its been going on for a decade and I am over it.

    goodbye.
    Honestly, Iíve never looked at Lance Thomasís advanced defensive metrics. If it is true that they are actually bad, then yeah, he shouldnít be playing because he is not a good offensive player or rebounder.

  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    lol

    After this bad stretch the Knicks have had, you might have something with your opinion, Broadway. If guys such as Jack lead the team to a lot more wins, then fine, let that veteran continue to do his thing because it's leadership for the young guys, but when it doesn't happen that often, then maybe it's time to let the young guys get more of a shot. I'm not saying Hornacek is wrong all the time, heck he gave Ntilikina a lot of minutes and let him close games earlier in the season, but in my opinion, the team should not tank, but at this point maybe you should be letting the younger guys close out games. It wouldn't be tanking, it might help their potential. He's not even having Kanter, who's young AND a veteran close out games.

    I don't understand not playing Noah. He may or may not be part of the Knicks' long-term plan, but when healthy nobody plays harder than him, and he's not gonna take any game winners.

    The organization is better now, but there's areas it needs a lot of improvement on.

    Yeah I'm sure our youth is learning a helluva lot with our 4-14 road record(whatever it is) the veterans have led us to. Classic case of wait until we're mathematically eliminated, then send in the embryos. There is zero reason to play Noah, literally zero. THAT'S A DEFINITE FAIL!

    Maybe we could learn more so looking at teams where this is working like the Raptors/Celtics who play lots of their youth prominent minutes.

    Playing young players and "DEVELOPING" them does not automatically equate to tanking

  12. #12
    Veteran DontForgetDerekHarper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Broadway
    Yeah I'm sure our youth is learning a helluva lot with our 4-14 road record(whatever it is) the veterans have led us to. Classic case of wait until we're mathematically eliminated, then send in the embryos. There is zero reason to play Noah, literally zero. THAT'S A DEFINITE FAIL!

    Maybe we could learn more so looking at teams where this is working like the Raptors/Celtics who play lots of their youth prominent minutes.

    I could see if production was the reason for not playing the young guys but lets be honest here, when Frank Nitty is on the floor the knicks have played well.

    when Lance thomas is on the floor the knicks look horrible because no one is afraid of him.


    TEAMS CAN DRIFT OFF OF LANCE ALL GAME LONG AND DOUBLE DOWN ON OUR BEST PLAYERS.

    you cannot have a guy in there that teams dont have to guard it makes it harder on every one.
    seem afraid

  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by DontForgetDerekHarper
    I could see if production was the reason for not playing the young guys but lets be honest here, when Frank Nitty is on the floor the knicks have played well.

    when Lance thomas is on the floor the knicks look horrible because no one is afraid of him.


    TEAMS CAN DRIFT OFF OF LANCE ALL GAME LONG AND DOUBLE DOWN ON OUR BEST PLAYERS.

    you cannot have a guy in there that teams dont have to guard it makes it harder on every one.

    This professional scrub improved his 3 ball for like 2 season but really 1 season based on gms played and parlayed that into another deal at 3yr/$21mil.

  14. #14
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    How much are we paying Noah?
    Noah"s veteran performance are capable of playing two position center n the 4 spot PF.

    It's midseason .. teams has started playing much physical n tougher inside n outside the basket .. we have 3 decent SF in Beasley / Mcderm / n Lance the 3 players can not perform well at the 4 spot .. SG Lee need to stay at the 2 guard spot the remainder of the season as a big guard .. Lee playing time minutes has increase to 32 to 40 minute per game after the injury to Tim Hardaway Jr. .. Lee's performance is not that great to be receiving 30 or more minute per game .. hopefully when Tim come back Lee's minutes go back to 18 to 24 minute per game.
    Beasley scoring should receive 20 to 28 minute per or just give Beasley 10 to 15 shot attempts per game.
    Mcderm's young raw performance plays team-ball on both sides of the court .. plus Mcderm plays well in the trio-unit of Frank Nitty / Mcderm / n Quinn ..
    A trio-lineup we need on the court for 7 to 10 minute straight in the first half then in the 2nd half ..
    Lance Thomas is a decent defender u bring off the bench for spot minutes to defend/screen/blockout/and pickup fouls.

    If coach Horn keep acting like KP is the only player that can perform at the 4 spot (PF) by not letting Noah or WHG play the 4 spot next to Kanter or Quinn in a lineup .. maybe that too has a lot to do with why the Knicks LOSE on the road, that next to Horn's confused guard rotation which need a lot of help .. Jack n Lee creativeness in the backcourt are mediocre or best as a Tier 2 backup.
    Jack n Lee seems like the only two guards coach Horn favors to keep as a tandem in the rotation.

  15. #15
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    Thank you Jesus for this thread. Thomas is so overrated it makes me puke. He is Ronaldo balkman all over again. All d and canít hit a two foot shot. Coach playing him more minutes than Beasley makes 0 sense. Beasley can play defense and scores a thousand times better than Thomas ever will. Thomas is honestly at best a role player.

    He also overplays Jack and McDermott even when they are playing 0 defense and canít hit a shot.

    He needs to trust Thomas, jack and oquinn less.
    And trust Beasley, Burke/Ntilikina, and kanter more.


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