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  1. #1
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    Default 2017-18 NBA Rookies - Frank Ntilikina and Friends Thread

    I'm starting this thread to talk about the performances of the 2017-18 NBA rookies. I should have started this thread a long time ago, rather than hijacking other threads, like most recently the NBA trade thread. This might also be a better place to put the comments about rookie performances like with DSJ and Markkanen than keep throwing them into the Other NBA games and league thread which is now 32 pages long.

    Jumping right off, I'm just going to post some select rookies and their defensive rating thusfar as per NBA.com. Defensive rating is how many points you supposedly allow per 100 possessions. A low number is a better number.

    Jayson Tatum - 98.9
    Lonzo Ball - 102.1
    Frank Ntilikina - 102.9
    Donovan Mitchell - 106.2
    Lauri Markkanen - 109.1
    Dennis Smith Jr - 111.9

    I'm just throwing this out there in case people wonder why I keep saying that Ntilikina is a good defensive player and that DSJ and Markkanen are not good defensive players. Stats don't tell the whole story and as Tig said in the trade thread, some guys play more against 2nd units than 1st units.
    Last edited by htr10; Jan 25, 2018 at 11:03.

  2. #2
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    Ok, now let's talk net overall rating. How many points you supposedly score per 100 possessions minus how many points you supposedly allow per 100 possessions.

    Jayson Tatum +6.1 (this dude is going to be an all-time great)
    Frank Ntilikina -1.1
    Lonzo Ball -1.2
    Donovan Mitchell -1.3
    Dennis Smith Jr -7.6
    Lauri Markkanen -8.7

    So listen, I'm not just blowing smoke out of my butt when I say the continued hype about DSJ and Markkanen lately is not the whole story. Again, stats don't tell the whole story either. I get that, but they're also not works of fiction. We can all agree Tatum is the best rookie (not counting Simmons). These stats support that. The stats make Mitchell less exciting than I thought he was, so there's that too.

  3. #3
    Veteran tiger0330's Avatar
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    Can't predict what player becomes the better player based on their rookie season but who so far has the better rookie season and has shown the most upside. Mudiay or Frank, if Frank turns into a similar player with the same upside would he be called a draft bust?

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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    Can't predict what player becomes the better player based on their rookie season but who so far has the better rookie season and has shown the most upside. Mudiay or Frank, if Frank turns into a similar player with the same upside would he be called a draft bust?
    Thatís a fair comparison. Similar height and weight, Mudiay obviously a little stockier. Both had highly inefficient rookie seasons (low shooting percentages, high TO ratio). I donít have off-hand access to Mudiayís advanced defensive stats though. Mudiay had the much higher usage rate his rookie year. When I get a chance, Iíll see if I can find some more specific numbers to compare.

    Long story short though, if Ntilikina turns into a similar player as Mudiay, yeah, heís probably a bust.

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    According to NBA.com, Emmanuel Mudiayís rookie season defensive rating and net rating were:

    Defensive rating: 107.1
    Net rating: -3.7

    So, Mudiay was just as inefficient offensively as Ntilikina, with a much higher usage rate, and nowhere near as good a defensive rating.

    Coaches will always want Ntilikina to get minutes because of his defense at the point of attack. He just needs to learn how not to be a complete team killer on offense. Can he do it? I have no idea.

  6. #6
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    Boston rookie Tatum play most of his minute of playingtime each game in lineups having "Baynes Hordford Brown Kyrie n Smart .. next season those same players will probably be in the same lineup n rotation with Tatum.

    The Utah Jazz rookie Mitchell has been playing the majority of his playingtime minutes tandem in the backcourt alongside Rubio. Mitchell performance made him a 30 minute player on the Jazz roster seeing plenty of playingtime in lineups with Gobert Favors Hood Ingles Burks JJ n Rubio.

    The Mavs rookie DSJ are under coach Carlise development program as a combo-guard in Calisle guard rotation of Barea Mathews Ferrell Curry n Harris.
    DSJ has been a 30 minute player on the Mavs from the start of the season .. The Mavs are rebuilding around young core players like DSJ and doesn't mind having a losing record 16-33.

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    Originally Posted by htr10
    According to NBA.com, Emmanuel Mudiayís rookie season defensive rating and net rating were:

    Defensive rating: 107.1
    Net rating: -3.7

    So, Mudiay was just as inefficient offensively as Ntilikina, with a much higher usage rate, and nowhere near as good a defensive rating.

    Coaches will always want Ntilikina to get minutes because of his defense at the point of attack. He just needs to learn how not to be a complete team killer on offense. Can he do it? I have no idea.
    I don't take anything away from Mudiay's performance especially being on a decade-rebuilding Denver Nuggets organization .. the Nuggets has always had a problem keeping a decent PG the past 3 decades.

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    The Lakers star rookie tandem Kuzma n Ball has been co-existing well on dimes n points since out topping Boston tandem Tatum n Brown in the Summer League Games.
    Coach Luke Walton has a future post season team in the Lakers young core Rookies .. Kuzma Ball Hart n Caruso !!!
    Plus the Lakers young core program has 3 head coaches in Magic / Luke / Ball sr.

    The Chicago Bulls rookie Markkanen has a great group of offense/defense teammates around him (Bigs n small) ..
    Coach Fred Hoiberg rebuilding roster has had some great exciting crunch time games the first half of the season playing team-ball .. a healthy Bulls roster would not be 18-33.

    The Knicks coach Hornacek's road record the past two seasons are ridiculous !!!

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    Veteran tiger0330's Avatar
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    The bust of the draft Fultz has been practicing with the team but I don't think he's near returning because his shot is still broken. I don't think you can run two guys that can't shoot in Simmons and Fultz together on the court so he's going to come back as a sub if he can manage to beat out TJ for his minutes He'll be a smaller version of Simmons running PnR and attacking the basket. I think the likelihood of Brown playing him over TJ is nil so we might see very little of him this season except in garbage time. He may go down as one of the worst picks in history if he can't fix that shot of his.

  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    The bust of the draft Fultz has been practicing with the team but I don't think he's near returning because his shot is still broken. I don't think you can run two guys that can't shoot in Simmons and Fultz together on the court so he's going to come back as a sub if he can manage to beat out TJ for his minutes He'll be a smaller version of Simmons running PnR and attacking the basket. I think the likelihood of Brown playing him over TJ is nil so we might see very little of him this season except in garbage time. He may go down as one of the worst picks in history if he can't fix that shot of his.
    Sixers traded up to get Fultz and Celtics traded down to get Tatum. You could argue this might eventually turn out to be the biggest screw up in draft history. Itís not like the Blazers traded up to take Oden instead of Durant.

  11. #11
    Veteran tiger0330's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by htr10
    Sixers traded up to get Fultz and Celtics traded down to get Tatum. You could argue this might eventually turn out to be the biggest screw up in draft history. It’s not like the Blazers traded up to take Oden instead of Durant.
    You would think the Sixers did their homework and he was that transformational player that you would make a move like that for. I noticed his FT form was ugly and wasn't falling in one of his early games and mentioned he had to fix it in the game thread. His form at the FT line is related to his broken shot and has evolved into quite a mystery and story with Brett Brown saying he's never seen anything like this in all his years in bball. Fultz needs to work very hard to get back his college form.

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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    You would think the Sixers did their homework and he was that transformational player that you would make a move like that for. I noticed his FT form was ugly and wasn't falling in one of his early games and mentioned he had to fix it in the game thread. His form at the FT line is related to his broken shot and has evolved into quite a mystery and story with Brett Brown saying he's never seen anything like this in all his years in bball. Fultz needs to work very hard to get back his college form.
    Just crazy. How did this happen to Fultz? I just donít get it.

  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by htr10
    Just crazy. How did this happen to Fultz? I just don’t get it.
    I don't know but maybe Broadway, Mafra et al want to chime in. Maybe one of the most interesting stories in this draft given he went #1 and the Sixers traded up to get him

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    I said before the draft I would take Fox over Fultz. How good can you be when his college team was that awful?

    add injury to insult... bad pick (same with Okafor).

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    Have anyone been watching the difference between the sets Hornacek gives to Frank Ntilikina compared to the sets Horn gives to Burke?
    Ntilikina set plays are wide open for isolation plus Lee asking for the ball as soon as Ntilikina brings the ball pass McCourt, and Burke sets are close for PnR or drop off to Quinn in the paint or a slasher.

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