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  1. #1
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Default Why Hornacek has failed as Knicks coach

    Many of us here agree the coach needs to go at this point, but here are some glaring reasons why coach Jeff Hornacek has failed the Knicks franchise in his two seasons as head coach.

    1) Hitting the wall:
    The Knicks started off the 2016-2017 season playing decent basketball. Albeit Jackson was still in charge, the team was standing at .500 basketball after roughly 30 games into the season. Then the losing streaks suddenly began and the Knicks finished 31-51 as an extremely disappointing season with a weak eastern conference and arguably Melos best supporting roster since 2012. Fast forward right now and we were a .500 team that has suddenly hit massive losing streaks with a record of 23-30. We lost to the bulls 3 times and hawks who are arguably the worst teams in basketball. We got crushed by the lakers as well, who stink. Two season and two similar trends.

    2) Refusing to make adjustments Part 1:
    Hornacek simply refuses to adjust his rotations during losing streaks. For example. Michael Beasley is averaging 12 ppg in only 20 minutes a game, yet having a player efficiency rating better than Paul George at nearly 20. He’s shooting over 50% from fg and over 40% from three point land, yet has only started games when player were hurt. When Beasley started he scored over 30 points a few times and was the reason we won the game. (Even Kevin Durant admitted he can score as good as him and lebron)
    Still coach plays Lance Thomas 18 min a game when he’s only averaging 4 points and continues to play him in key minutes such as the 4th quarter in Milwaukee game benching Beasley with 11 minutes to go.

    3) Refusing to make adjustments Part 2:
    The point guard position is arguably the most important position in the NBA and while our decent record at the beginning of the season was due to benching Ramon sessions for Jarrett Jack, the coach is not adjusting now that we stand at 23-30. Jarret jack has had nice games but he continues to play huge minutes when he won’t be here next year and is averaging a measly 7 ppg at the pg position. He’s averaging over 26 min per game and is a terrible defensive guard that can’t defend any quick pg opposing teams throw at us.
    Last game against the bucks showed his ridiculous hornacek rotations were.
    Frank Ntilikina was having a great game with 9 points, 5 assists in only 17 minutes, instead of playing frank at the end of the game he goes with Jack who played 32 minutes and hardaway who was having his worst game of the season finishing with 34 minutes and shooting 1/14..you don’t play a guy playing that poorly in the 4th over a guy that is having a great game off the bench I’m sorry.

    4) The absence of Trey Burke:
    Trey Burke has been somewhat of a head scratching case from hornacek. After lighting up opposing teams for back to back 18 point games, Burke has seen his minutes shoot all the way down back to 0 from last nights game. The post game crew of Wally Sczerbiak and Alan Hahn demanded Burke get more minutes and might even be the starter. He was the fast penetrating scoring guard they needed..and now after all the excitement Burke played 5 minutes against Boston and a DNP against Milwaukee when we struggled offensively in both games. Burke averaged a ridiculous amount of points in the g league and we are playing jarret jack nearly 30 minutes and hardaway even more even when he’s having terrible games, something has to give. There is no reason to not play Burke consistently.

    5) The handling of Joakhim Noah:
    Say what you want about Noah but there were many times this season when we were getting pounded defensively due jack and hardaway allowing players in the paint at will. While Kyle O’Quinn is our best interior defender he has a tendency to foul so much that he doesn’t last in games. Kanter can’t defend, Gomez is even worse. The few times Noah played he was productive and provided a spark rebounding and hustling (just like coach’s buddy lance Thomas). Yet, Noah and coach got into an argument and Noah hasn’t been with the team since. Noah is a veteran and came to NY because he’s always been a knick fan. To have a blow up like this resulting in demolishing the little value he had is piss poor management from coach that symbolizes his job the past two seasons. The situation with Noah should have never occurred and he could have played many times this season when we needed a defensive spark. Coach is pulling the mike dantoni-Stephon Marbury treatment on Noah..the dog house with a locked door.

    Coach needs to go. Only hope of making the playoffs is firing this guy to give the team a spark..when we fired mike Woodson we won the next game by 40 points. Let me read all your thoughts.

    #knickstape


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  2. #2
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    Couldn’t agree more. 5 for 5 in your points. Hornacek’s handling of Ntilikina, Burke, Beasley, Noah, and WHG has all been questionable at best. Things are only going to get worse if we don’t move Lee, Lance Thomas, and/or Kyle O’Quinn by the deadline.

  3. #3
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    Hornacek's two season as the KNOCKS headcoach has prove to be a better LOSER headcoach than Rambis ..
    Hornacek's developing skills to get Knicks young core players co-existing to play at their strengths has been a failure last season and a colapse this season by giving the young players in n out spurts of playingtime in different lineups than the previous game.
    Hornacek's starter lineup are clueless at closing games .. plus 20 someting games ago Beasley should have been put in the starter lineup .. Quinn's defensive presence should have been averaging above 21 minute and 4 fouls per game this season having a defenseless Kanter n KP in the rotation who refuse to get physical with opponents or post up down low on defense to catch opponents slasher for a offensive foul.
    Hornacek not putting any effort to build on a young tandem backcourt of Frank n Burke having THJ as the 3rd guard for a 3 guard offense shows poor preparation as a headcoach improving the Knicks team.
    There were no reason to DNP a veteran experience player Noah for half the season who wanted to play bad enough that Noah accepted to play n work with the G League Team.
    Hornacek n Rambis need to be FIRED asap !!!

  4. #4
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by htr10
    Couldn’t agree more. 5 for 5 in your points. Hornacek’s handling of Ntilikina, Burke, Beasley, Noah, and WHG has all been questionable at best. Things are only going to get worse if we don’t move Lee, Lance Thomas, and/or Kyle O’Quinn by the deadline.
    Agree gotta shake things up with the coach and a few players


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  5. #5
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Default Why Hornacek has failed as Knicks coach

    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Hornacek's two season as the KNOCKS headcoach has prove to be a better LOSER headcoach than Rambis ..
    Hornacek's developing skills to get Knicks young core players co-existing to play at their strengths has been a failure last season and a colapse this season by giving the young players in n out spurts of playingtime in different lineups than the previous game.
    Hornacek's starter lineup are clueless at closing games .. plus 20 someting games ago Beasley should have been put in the starter lineup .. Quinn's defensive presence should have been averaging above 21 minute and 4 fouls per game this season having a defenseless Kanter n KP in the rotation who refuse to get physical with opponents or post up down low on defense to catch opponents slasher for a offensive foul.
    Hornacek not putting any effort to build on a young tandem backcourt of Frank n Burke having THJ as the 3rd guard for a 3 guard offense shows poor preparation as a headcoach improving the Knicks team.
    There were no reason to DNP a veteran experience player Noah for half the season who wanted to play bad enough that Noah accepted to play n work with the G League Team.
    Hornacek n Rambis need to be FIRED asap !!!
    Agreed and I like your line up idea if Burke frank ad hardaway at the 3 since Frankie can switch and guard any guard/wing due to his size.

    Oquinn minutes should have been more minutes as well. If we take his numbers and double them to around 36 min per game he has better overall numbers than kanter scoring and similar rebounding but averaging over 2 blocks. Which means even if we lost kanter, oquinn would pick up much of the slack.
    However kanter has been great and despite his poor defense he is simply too valuable offensively and on the glass to just give away for nothing.


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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    Agreed and I like your line up idea if Burke frank ad hardaway at the 3 since Frankie can switch and guard any guard/wing due to his size.

    Oquinn minutes should have been more minutes as well. If we take his numbers and double them to around 36 min per game he has better overall numbers than kanter scoring and similar rebounding but averaging over 2 blocks. Which means even if we lost kanter, oquinn would pick up much of the slack.
    However kanter has been great and despite his poor defense he is simply too valuable offensively and on the glass to just give away for nothing.


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    Kanter's a keeper now .. Both Noah n WHG are asking to be traded by the deadline.
    After the Melo trade .. I thought Hornacek were gonna let Kanter n Noah mentor KP n WHG into the Knicks frontcourt rotation.
    I was wrong!

    Hornacek simply has no handle on the roster. Everyone is frustrated. Guys that should be playing aren't. Guys that are playing shouldn't. We havnt been playing to win games .. nor do we set plays to improve our team-defense for crunch time wins.
    We are too talent for this. We're not a top 5 or 6 team in the east... but we are talented enough to challenge for the 7th n 8th seed throughout March n April.
    We should be looking to make a trade to improve n push us higher in the standings.... now were just going to spiral. It's such a waste to trade guys away for picks... Mark my words were going to be doing that for KP in his contract year. We're not trying to win. It's disgusting.

  7. #7
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    gotta agree with all your points, especially rotations. Jack took over for Sessions when he showed how to win 4 games in. Now that Burke has shown his potential for doing everything Jack cannot do, why is he not taking over starting PG position? what has Jack done in his 2nd half minutes the past 20 games to deserve 30+ minutes/game? How does Burke go from solid scoring/assist games to DNP?

    Frank's confidence has steadily eroded as he got benched. Coach Horn's handling of Willy, Dotson, Frank and Burke is deplorable. If you don't have a winning combination, then change something! Putting Burke or Frank in the starting lineup will be a HUGE change on this team, a considerably different dynamic. Burke as starter would score more than Jack, and get the ball to Kanter and KP more, whereas Frank as starter would give team a better all around defense, leading to easier offense.

    What's the worst thing that could happen with a changing of the guard? more losses? getting blown out? oh woe is Coach Horn's job.

    Player development has taken a back seat to trying to win with a slow squad in 2nd halves. Having Jack starting the game, starting the 2nd half, and ending games is a recipe for defeat.

    Lee, Lance, and KOQ may be defensive stallwarts, but their offense is hit or miss, and their energy levels are not up to par with other teams' young gunners and runners.

    If Hardaway can't hit, why is he in the game? Yet Frank gets doghoused for a couple bad passes, while Jack consistently stinks up the court with bad passes? Burke gets doghoused for a bad quarter? Willy gets consistent DNP's when Knicks are trying to evaluate and develop him as a player? Dotson gets only garbage minutes?

    Coach Horn's philosophy of bully ball, pumping the ball into KP and Kanter instead of ball movement around the horn has become increasingly stale. if not for Kanter's amazing proficiency at offensive rebounds and scoring in the paint, this team would be beaten solidly every game. Why not see how Burke or Frank does in the starting lineup with KP, Kanter, THjr and Beasley?

    Seeing Frank come into games when KP is ready to go out is discouraging. If one thing was to be gained this year by player development, it would be seeing how Frank and KP play together. at this point, we are not finding out.

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    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    First and foremost:

    Ntilikina’s lack of progress is more discouraging. Whereas the two point guards taken after him in the draft — Dennis Smith Jr. and Donovan Mitchell — are accumulating valuable minutes for their rebuilding franchises, Ntilikina is stuck in a reserve role behind Jarrett Jack and sometimes Trey Burke.

    Coach Jeff Hornacek indicated that Ntilikina, who missed Monday’s practice because of knee soreness, is behind schedule in his development. It’s fair to wonder, based on how they’ve handled Ntilikina, whether the Knicks should draft another point guard with their lottery pick in June. Many scouts believe Ntilikina is better suited as an offguard, and the decision to call up Burke from the G League was a telling sign of where the rookie stands.

    “The thought at the beginning of the year was Frank at some point would become (the starter),” Hornacek said. “But he’s still trying to grasp having to go out there every single night and play so I don’t know if we’re quite there.”

    (NY Daily News)

  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by CoolClyde
    gotta agree with all your points, especially rotations. Jack took over for Sessions when he showed how to win 4 games in. Now that Burke has shown his potential for doing everything Jack cannot do, why is he not taking over starting PG position? what has Jack done in his 2nd half minutes the past 20 games to deserve 30+ minutes/game? How does Burke go from solid scoring/assist games to DNP?

    Frank's confidence has steadily eroded as he got benched. Coach Horn's handling of Willy, Dotson, Frank and Burke is deplorable. If you don't have a winning combination, then change something! Putting Burke or Frank in the starting lineup will be a HUGE change on this team, a considerably different dynamic. Burke as starter would score more than Jack, and get the ball to Kanter and KP more, whereas Frank as starter would give team a better all around defense, leading to easier offense.

    What's the worst thing that could happen with a changing of the guard? more losses? getting blown out? oh woe is Coach Horn's job.

    Player development has taken a back seat to trying to win with a slow squad in 2nd halves. Having Jack starting the game, starting the 2nd half, and ending games is a recipe for defeat.

    Lee, Lance, and KOQ may be defensive stallwarts, but their offense is hit or miss, and their energy levels are not up to par with other teams' young gunners and runners.

    If Hardaway can't hit, why is he in the game? Yet Frank gets doghoused for a couple bad passes, while Jack consistently stinks up the court with bad passes? Burke gets doghoused for a bad quarter? Willy gets consistent DNP's when Knicks are trying to evaluate and develop him as a player? Dotson gets only garbage minutes?

    Coach Horn's philosophy of bully ball, pumping the ball into KP and Kanter instead of ball movement around the horn has become increasingly stale. if not for Kanter's amazing proficiency at offensive rebounds and scoring in the paint, this team would be beaten solidly every game. Why not see how Burke or Frank does in the starting lineup with KP, Kanter, THjr and Beasley?

    Seeing Frank come into games when KP is ready to go out is discouraging. If one thing was to be gained this year by player development, it would be seeing how Frank and KP play together. at this point, we are not finding out.
    Great post, I always wonder why frank who is a pass first pg is not playing more with KP being that they are the future of the franchise.

    Your comment on coach’s quick trigger with certain guys is important as well, as it seems he has favorites and doesn’t like change..despite the losing.

    And agreed 100% if kanter wasn’t having a career year then we wouldn’t even be in a position to win games. For that reason I’d be fine with him signing his player option for next season even if it is 19 mil.

    Frank and Burke’s minutes are so inconsistent and I agree it can create a lack of confidence. Does Burke have to score 40 points to be considered in the rotation? Well Beasley put up 30+ multiple games and still didn’t start over lance Thomas and gets barely more minutes per game.

    Coach has so many head scratching moves but lack of adjustments is the biggest.


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    Originally Posted by mafra
    First and foremost:

    Ntilikina’s lack of progress is more discouraging. Whereas the two point guards taken after him in the draft — Dennis Smith Jr. and Donovan Mitchell — are accumulating valuable minutes for their rebuilding franchises, Ntilikina is stuck in a reserve role behind Jarrett Jack and sometimes Trey Burke.

    Coach Jeff Hornacek indicated that Ntilikina, who missed Monday’s practice because of knee soreness, is behind schedule in his development. It’s fair to wonder, based on how they’ve handled Ntilikina, whether the Knicks should draft another point guard with their lottery pick in June. Many scouts believe Ntilikina is better suited as an offguard, and the decision to call up Burke from the G League was a telling sign of where the rookie stands.

    “The thought at the beginning of the year was Frank at some point would become (the starter),” Hornacek said. “But he’s still trying to grasp having to go out there every single night and play so I don’t know if we’re quite there.”

    (NY Daily News)
    Agreed that frank looks better as an off ball guard and Burke’s calling from g league was also because the dude was killing it and sessions was a bench warmer. Burke is younger with more potential even if Frankie has his struggles. Frank has some pretty bad turnovers of telegraphing passes like a high school kid. He’s capable of a near triple double when he’s on and can be consistent offensively when open, but as far as running an offense leaves much to be desired.

    A lineup with Burke as the ball dominate scorer that can break down a defense is a nice compliment to Frankie. Burke is fast and can handle quicker pgs, he can run the offense while frank hits open shots and feeds guys on cuts to the hoop. Franks defense is his strength and this allows him to help Burke who isn’t as sharp defensively and allows the team to switch effectively since frank has the size to guard 1-3.

    By hornaceks quote it sounds as if Burke has a better chance of starting over jack than frank.


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    Maybe just maybe we need to send the kid down to the G-League


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    The Knicks are 23-32 and have lost their best player for the remainder of the season, but GM Scott Perry gave head coach Jeff Hornacek a vote of confidence on Wednesday.

    Asked if the franchise was looking to make any staff changes, Perry said: "No, we're not looking to make any changes. We're evaluating the entire season. Jeff and his group are working really hard with this basketball team and doing the very best they can and obviously this is an adversity for them to deal with [Kristaps Porzingis] being out but I'm confident that they'll be able to do a good job of keeping this team playing hard and playing together. That's what we'll be looking at moving forward."

    Both former Knick point guard Mark Jackson and former Cavs coach David Blatt have been speculated as possible successors to Hornacek, who signed a three-year deal before the 2016-17 season. Blatt maintains a close relationship with Knicks President Steve Mills.

    Hornacek is 54-83 during his tenure in New York, which included a 31-51 season a year ago when he was forced to play aspects of Phil Jackson's triangle offense. For his career, Hornacek is 155-195 (.443).


    "We're still trying to win games," Hornacek said. "We're still trying to develop our guys. This is going to give them an opportunity to get some minutes and see what they can do against NBA guys. We've seen some of it, because they practice with us, and we see what they can do against our guys. So I'm excited for them to have that opportunity. Unfortunately, it comes at the expense of a trade and KP's injury, but that's sometimes how it is, and again, if we look at maybe a little bright side is these guys are going to get an opportunity that when KP does come back, hopefully we all get better."

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