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  1. #1
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    Default Knicks Trade for Emmanuel Mudiay

    I know, I know, old news at this point and already discussed in other threads, but much like KP's injury, I think this deserves its own thread.

    Just before the trade deadline today, the Knicks acquired PG Emmanuel Mudiay in a 3-way trade that sent Doug McDermott to the Dallas Mavericks and Devin Harris to the Denver Nuggets. The Knicks and Nuggets also will exchange 2nd round picks in the 2018 draft.

    Mudiay, who is only 21-years-old, was taken with the 7th overall pick in the 2015 NBA draft (3 picks after KP). He showed some promise his rookie year, but overall put up some historically inefficient numbers (poor shooting percentages, high turnovers, etc.) and was made obsolete in Denver by Jamal Murray. Mudiay was going nowhere on the Denver bench this season. Mudiay has one more season on his contract after this season and then 2 seasons from now he would be a qualifying offer player.

    I like the cost for this trade, but not sure I like the player. In fact, it would make me a hypocrite to say that I like Mudiay at all now that we traded for him after I bashed him like crazy the last 2 years.

    As tig pointed out a little while ago in another thread, Mudiay is another big PG like Ntilikina (6'5"), although, I'd say very different skillsets.

    Hornacek now has 3 lottery PGs (Burke, Mudiay, Ntilikina) that he can somehow find a way not to play I suppose.

    The Nuggets have been going out of their way to trade Mudiay and now they practically gave him away just to get him off the roster. I think that speaks volumes about Mudiay's value. Where is everyone else at with this trade?

  2. #2
    Veteran tiger0330's Avatar
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    I posted that Perry may not be sold on Ntilikina or at least wary about how long it's going to take him to become an NBA PG. Isola wrote the below today in an article about Nits echoing what I said.

    I've seen the Mudiay play a number of times this season and he's putting up the best shooting efficiency numbers of his career, 3pt, 2pt and ft %. Nugs have Jamal so he became expendable but the kid has improved enough to where he could be the Knicks starting PG.

    Clearly, the Knicks are not sold on Ntilikina, whose head must be spinning in a million different directions since last June when Phil Jackson was fired just days after the NBA Draft.


    Usually a player selected eighth overall is treated as such, especially on a bad team that says it’s rebuilding. You play the kid. You eventually start him. You nurture him and make the 19-year-old feel like he is part of the future.


    Instead, the Knicks actions suggest that Frank is merely taking up a roster spot until somebody better, in this case Burke and now Mudiay, come along.
    Last edited by tiger0330; Feb 08, 2018 at 19:02.

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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    I posted that Perry may not be sold on Ntilikina or at least wary about how long it's going to take him to become an NBA PG. Isola wrote the below today in an article about Nits.

    Clearly, the Knicks are not sold on Ntilikina, whose head must be spinning in a million different directions since last June when Phil Jackson was fired just days after the NBA Draft.


    Usually a player selected eighth overall is treated as such, especially on a bad team that says it’s rebuilding. You play the kid. You eventually start him. You nurture him and make the 19-year-old feel like he is part of the future.


    Instead, the Knicks actions suggest that Frank is merely taking up a roster spot until somebody better, in this case Burke and now Mudiay, come along.
    If the 3 guys you need to beat out are Jarrett Jack, Trey Burke, and Emmanuel Mudiay and you can’t do it, then yeah, your career is probably in trouble. If Ntilikina doesn’t figure out his offensive game in the next couple months, he shouldn’t expect any playing time guarantees next season.

  4. #4
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Not a bad thing if both guards are interchangeable.... plus, small ball era employs 3 guards anyway.

    You need a penatrator, a shooter, a sixth man scoring spark and a defensive stopper.

    Burke, Timmy, Mudiay and Knits can all fill these roles.... and each has it in them to be 2-way players. Now, it’s up to them to take afavnatage of the opportunity and develop their weaknesses. But bad teams should roll the dice on young elite prospects. These types have time to reach their projected ceilings.

    It may not work out but there’s room in the rotation.... minutes.... for all of our young guards.

    Plus, having competition should motivate Knits and fire him up. Rise to the challenge!

  5. #5
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    (theknicksblog)


    Larry Brown hasn't been much of a Knicks fans since Isiah Thomas famously fired him as head coach in 2006, but now Brown has two big reasons to support the Knicks.

    Knicks GM Scott Perry was in the Detroit Pistons front office when Brown coached them to the 2004 NBA championship. And Perry has now engineered the Knicks' acquisition of point guard Emmanuel Mudiay, whom Brown recruited to Southern Methodist University before he opted to play professionally in China. The Knicks acquired Mudiay before Thursday's NBA trade deadline in a three-way deal that sent Doug McDermott to Dallas.

    "I have a lot of respect and admiration for [Perry]," Brown told SNY.tv by phone from his home in Long Island. "I've always been a Knick fan when he got there. I'm more and more inclined to try to watch and root for him because he's such a quality guy. And I'm happy for Emmanuel...I'm hopeful this will be a really great situation for him."

    Brown, 77, believes a change of scenery will benefit Mudiay, who averaged 11.1 points and 4.2 assists in two-plus seasons in Denver after becoming the No. 7 overall pick in 2015.

    "Sometimes you go to a situation that maybe just doesn't fit you," Brown said. "And then you land somewhere else where you have a coach that maybe you connect with right away....I know Jeff [Hornacek], he realizes he losing the kids he's lost [to injury and trades], that this is a time that he has to get people better. And he comes from an unbelievably great culture. When you play for Jerry Sloan as long as he did and you're in that situation in Phoenix where they were pretty good, I'm pretty confident he'll relate to Emmanuel and help him grow."

    Brown also thinks Mudiay can play alongside the Knicks other young lead guard in Frank Ntilikina, the No. 8 pick in 2017.

    "My thing is, the Knicks got a core of young guys and with [Kristaps] Porzingis getting hurt, it's a situation [where] I'm pretty confident they'll feel comfortable playing Emmanuel with Frank," Brown said. "That to me is a pretty good situation because when you look down the road [Enes] Kanter can score in the low block. We know Porzingis is going to be a terrific player. I think [Tim] Hardaway can score the ball, [Courtney] Lee can make a shot, so the things that Emmanuel does best, I'm hopeful they'll recognize.

    "He can be a premier defender, he's a gym rat, he's got a high IQ and he's a great kid. And I think he just wants to be coached and I'm pretty confident they'll do that."

    Brown believes Ntilikina and Mudiay can be interchangeable in the backcourt.

    "Frank and Emmanuel are both long, athletic kids, so I don't see any problem," he said. "I have confidence that they knew what they were doing when they got him. Everybody questions whether Emmanuel shoots the ball well enough, or whether Frank shoots the ball well enough. I had Bruce Bowen, who couldn't shoot a foul shot. He worked on his game, went to San Antonio and led the league in three-point shooting...You can get better. I think they both can make people better."

    Brown believes all young players, especially ones who never went to college like Mudiay, need to be coached up.

    "Maybe I'm old school, we get rid of so many of these young kids that we draft so early and everybody says you gotta get me a better player," Brown said. "No, we've got to figure out a way to teach because when you go to one year of college or no years of college, you've got to have guys teaching, and not just guys throwing the ball back to you and these developmental coaches. We've got to have teachers."

    Of course, the Knicks have a point guard glut now with Mudiay, Ntilikina, Trey Burke and Jarrett Jack. It remains to be seen how that will all play out, but Perry said Wednesday the team will focus on developing its younger players moving forward.

    "I'm sure they have a plan for how they want to develop these kids," Brown said.

    He also thinks Jack could help mentor the younger players.

    "If you get in a locker room with a guy that sits there with you and mentors you, it can really make all the difference in the world to some of these young kids, and Jack seems to me like that kind of guy," Brown said. "Emmanuel will benefit."

    As far as dealing with the New York media, Brown said it shouldn't be an issue for Mudiay.

    "He's a beautiful kid," he said. "All he wants to do is be coached and play. That's why we were lucky to have him commit to us. He's a basketball junkie. He wants to be great, he wants to win, he wants to be coached. He has a really nice personality, he gets along with everybody."

    Follow @AdamZagoria on Twitter

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    Larry Brown is sure we have a “plan” for developing Mudiay and Ntilikina. That makes one of us. The rest of the world loves or hates our franchise based on how we treat their friends and/or proteges.

  7. #7
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    Default Knicks Trade for Emmanuel Mudiay

    I liked the move. We traded away a one dimensional player in McDermott who since December didn’t have any games where he was really effective. He became the offensive version of a useless lance Thomas. Meanwhile, we only had to surrender a 2nd round pick for a pg that is super young at 21 and is 6’5 and very athletic. One writer mentioned that a back court of Mudiay and Frankie would be one of the most athletic and versatile defensive back courts in the nba. Two guys that are 6’5 with near 7 foot wingspans that are very young, athletic and can defend 1-3.
    Plus Mudiay could blossom in a different situation in NY. It was a good move. Now we have 3 pgs that are young and can develop in Frankie, Burke and Mudiay. Jack is the odd man out.


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    hope spring eternal...

  9. #9
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    I havnt watched Mudiay play this season .. I liked Mudiay swagger as a rookie.
    I like the idea of having two young keeper PG (Frank & Mudiay) the remaining 26 games of regular season.

    The Knicks has eight (8) Guards on the roster right now ....
    1- Frank
    2- Mudiay
    3- Burke
    4- Jack
    5- Lee
    6- THJ
    7-Dotson
    8- Baker .. maybe out for remainder of season.

    How will coach Horn tandem the above guards?

    Will coach Horn keep playing the TANKING 3-Guards offense in the rotation the remainder of the season?

    All of headcach Horn's lineups the past 2 seasons were missing a defending PF to make the lineup complete and easy for a set of Knicks guards to run the show .. Having Kanter & K Quinn as centers the Knicks NEEDED a PF .. a Giannis Antetokounmpo / Draymon Green / Aldridge / Horford / Griffin / Harris / Markannen / Kuzma / Saric / Ibaka / both Morris / Gordon / Anderson / Randle /Turner / Sabonis .. all the above name PF had high scoring n high rebounds vs the knicks this season.

    Our guards are not gonna work well until the Knicks frontcourt big-man lineup co-exist on both sides of the court plus get their passing game together Especially after grabbing a defensive rebound .. Kanter n KP leads the league in turnovers after grabbing a defensive rebound.

  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by mafra
    (theknicksblog)


    Larry Brown hasn't been much of a Knicks fans since Isiah Thomas famously fired him as head coach in 2006, but now Brown has two big reasons to support the Knicks.

    Knicks GM Scott Perry was in the Detroit Pistons front office when Brown coached them to the 2004 NBA championship. And Perry has now engineered the Knicks' acquisition of point guard Emmanuel Mudiay, whom Brown recruited to Southern Methodist University before he opted to play professionally in China. The Knicks acquired Mudiay before Thursday's NBA trade deadline in a three-way deal that sent Doug McDermott to Dallas.

    "I have a lot of respect and admiration for [Perry]," Brown told SNY.tv by phone from his home in Long Island. "I've always been a Knick fan when he got there. I'm more and more inclined to try to watch and root for him because he's such a quality guy. And I'm happy for Emmanuel...I'm hopeful this will be a really great situation for him."

    Brown, 77, believes a change of scenery will benefit Mudiay, who averaged 11.1 points and 4.2 assists in two-plus seasons in Denver after becoming the No. 7 overall pick in 2015.

    "Sometimes you go to a situation that maybe just doesn't fit you," Brown said. "And then you land somewhere else where you have a coach that maybe you connect with right away....I know Jeff [Hornacek], he realizes he losing the kids he's lost [to injury and trades], that this is a time that he has to get people better. And he comes from an unbelievably great culture. When you play for Jerry Sloan as long as he did and you're in that situation in Phoenix where they were pretty good, I'm pretty confident he'll relate to Emmanuel and help him grow."

    Brown also thinks Mudiay can play alongside the Knicks other young lead guard in Frank Ntilikina, the No. 8 pick in 2017.

    "My thing is, the Knicks got a core of young guys and with [Kristaps] Porzingis getting hurt, it's a situation [where] I'm pretty confident they'll feel comfortable playing Emmanuel with Frank," Brown said. "That to me is a pretty good situation because when you look down the road [Enes] Kanter can score in the low block. We know Porzingis is going to be a terrific player. I think [Tim] Hardaway can score the ball, [Courtney] Lee can make a shot, so the things that Emmanuel does best, I'm hopeful they'll recognize.

    "He can be a premier defender, he's a gym rat, he's got a high IQ and he's a great kid. And I think he just wants to be coached and I'm pretty confident they'll do that."

    Brown believes Ntilikina and Mudiay can be interchangeable in the backcourt.

    "Frank and Emmanuel are both long, athletic kids, so I don't see any problem," he said. "I have confidence that they knew what they were doing when they got him. Everybody questions whether Emmanuel shoots the ball well enough, or whether Frank shoots the ball well enough. I had Bruce Bowen, who couldn't shoot a foul shot. He worked on his game, went to San Antonio and led the league in three-point shooting...You can get better. I think they both can make people better."

    Brown believes all young players, especially ones who never went to college like Mudiay, need to be coached up.

    "Maybe I'm old school, we get rid of so many of these young kids that we draft so early and everybody says you gotta get me a better player," Brown said. "No, we've got to figure out a way to teach because when you go to one year of college or no years of college, you've got to have guys teaching, and not just guys throwing the ball back to you and these developmental coaches. We've got to have teachers."

    Of course, the Knicks have a point guard glut now with Mudiay, Ntilikina, Trey Burke and Jarrett Jack. It remains to be seen how that will all play out, but Perry said Wednesday the team will focus on developing its younger players moving forward.

    "I'm sure they have a plan for how they want to develop these kids," Brown said.

    He also thinks Jack could help mentor the younger players.

    "If you get in a locker room with a guy that sits there with you and mentors you, it can really make all the difference in the world to some of these young kids, and Jack seems to me like that kind of guy," Brown said. "Emmanuel will benefit."

    As far as dealing with the New York media, Brown said it shouldn't be an issue for Mudiay.

    "He's a beautiful kid," he said. "All he wants to do is be coached and play. That's why we were lucky to have him commit to us. He's a basketball junkie. He wants to be great, he wants to win, he wants to be coached. He has a really nice personality, he gets along with everybody."

    Follow @AdamZagoria on Twitter

    Brown also knows this Knick organization is a JOKE and the coaching-staff is a JOKE!
    Hornacek learned nothing from coach Sloan !!!

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    According to Hornacek, Mudiay will debut Sunday against Indiana. Hornacek says to expect Jack’s minutes to decrease going forward so that Ntilikina, Mudiay, and Burke can get more minutes. I would also like to see Lee’s minutes decrease going forward.

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    There has to be a way we can sign Mario Hezonja in the offseason. If we can trade 1 contract it can be easily done he's probably a $7-10mil player on the open market. Orlando doesn't have the money for him with Gordon's Cap Hit and impending RFA status and they declined his option. so he's a UFA

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    Originally Posted by Broadway
    There has to be a way we can sign Mario Hezonja in the offseason. If we can trade 1 contract it can be easily done he's probably a $7-10mil player on the open market. Orlando doesn't have the money for him with Gordon's Cap Hit and impending RFA status and they declined his option. so he's a UFA
    What are we expecting to happen with Kanter and his 18.6 million player option? Is he going to decline and we’re going to have to sign him for even more? I’m assuming Baker picks up his option. Moving Lee or Lance Thomas is probably going to be hard, if our front office is even going to try. Then there’s re-signing Beasley (which I’m not entirely sold on doing if his price shoots up). Also, have to figure out what to do with Kornet and Burke. Only guy I think we get off the books for sure is O’Quinn as in my mind it is a lock he declines his player option.

    Not sure I see a lot of scenarios where we can/will create space for Hezonja.

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    Originally Posted by htr10
    What are we expecting to happen with Kanter and his 18.6 million player option? Is he going to decline and we’re going to have to sign him for even more? I’m assuming Baker picks up his option. Moving Lee or Lance Thomas is probably going to be hard, if our front office is even going to try. Then there’s re-signing Beasley (which I’m not entirely sold on doing if his price shoots up). Also, have to figure out what to do with Kornet and Burke. Only guy I think we get off the books for sure is O’Quinn as in my mind it is a lock he declines his player option.


    Not sure I see a lot of scenarios where we can/will create space for Hezonja.
    We're about $95mil in total salary including empty roster spot hits and every player with an Option picking it up. I expect the cap to be around $102-104mil. Our pick make eat into half of the space there. We just need to move Lee and/or Kyle O'Quinn and stop demanding so much for them like we were at the deadline. It can be done especially teams on the higher end looking for veterans to help solidify their competitive advantage. Kanter probably opts in on the 1yr deal since 2019 appears to be our target yr to turn the corner

    I think we can sign Hezonja to a similar deal Lou Will got on his extension 3yrs/$24mil or thereabouts. Beasley can sign another vet deal he's not going to get a rich contract from anyone...he's clearly a niche player at this point in his career. He's good for what he does don't get me wrong but he'll be turning 30 I don't see big money coming his way. He can sign another 1 yr deal if he'd like to return otherwise wish him well.

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    Originally Posted by Broadway
    We're about $95mil in total salary including empty roster spot hits and every player with an Option picking it up. I expect the cap to be around $102-104mil. Our pick make eat into half of the space there. We just need to move Lee and/or Kyle O'Quinn and stop demanding so much for them like we were at the deadline. It can be done especially teams on the higher end looking for veterans to help solidify their competitive advantage. Kanter probably opts in on the 1yr deal since 2019 appears to be our target yr to turn the corner

    I think we can sign Hezonja to a similar deal Lou Will got on his extension 3yrs/$24mil or thereabouts. Beasley can sign another vet deal he's not going to get a rich contract from anyone...he's clearly a niche player at this point in his career. He's good for what he does don't get me wrong but he'll be turning 30 I don't see big money coming his way. He can sign another 1 yr deal if he'd like to return otherwise wish him well.
    With KP’s injury likely to go well into next season, we are in the tank next season whether we like it or not. Seeing what Hezonja can do seems to make a lot more sense than trying to pointlessly ride Beasley and/or Lee for another season. Hezonja’s upside is undeniable. This would be a savvy move for us. Instead, we’ll sign some other team’s 3rd string PG who is in their mid 30s.

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