2018 NBA Draft Night Thread - ESPN 7PM Thursday June 21

Broadway

All Star
Sounds like we are willing to let another team make Luke Kornet a better offer for this coming season. I’ll take that as a sign either we think Kanter is opting in or that Mitchell Robinson is going to be useful for us. I think we are almost certainly letting KOQ go elsewhere.

We have our Kanter answer

Good Riddance, a long term contract even at lesser pay is not an option

 

tiger0330

Legend
We have our Kanter answer

Good Riddance, a long term contract even at lesser pay is not an option

Need to hear it from Kanter, this says he hasn't decided. Bucks supposedly are interested but they're over the cap.

NEW YORK KNICKS


Knicks Rumors: Enes Kanter Hasn't Decided on Option, Bucks Interested in Center




Enes Kanter may have his choice of suitors this offseason if he declines his 2018-19 contract option to remain with the New York Knicks.


Per ESPN's Ian Begley, Kanter hasn't decided if he will opt in to his $18.6 million deal. If he elects to become a free agent, the Milwaukee Bucks are among the teams that have expressed internal interest in signing the veteran center.


Per Newsday's Al Iannazzone, the Knicks are shifting toward player development under head coach David Fizdale, so they aren't expected to make Kanter a contract offer if he opts out.


However, Iannazzone also noted Kanter "loves New York," and odds favor him exercising his deal for next season.


New York acquired the 26-year-old Kanter last September as part of the Carmelo Anthony trade with the Oklahoma City Thunder. He averaged 14.1 points and a team-high 11 rebounds per game last year.


The Bucks relied on John Henson at center last season. He averaged 8.8 points and 6.8 rebounds per game but missed the last five playoff games against the Boston Celtics with a back injury.


Coming off a 29-53 record last season, the Knicks appear to be building for the future. They still have Kristaps Porzingis, who is coming off a torn ACL suffered in February, and added Kevin Knox with the No. 9 pick in the 2018 NBA draft.


Kanter has proven himself to be a solid starting center, averaging at least 12.5 points and 10 rebounds per game in each of his seven seasons in the NBA. He would be an upgrade for a playoff contender like the Bucks if he chooses to leave the Knicks this summer.
 
Just read on HoopsHype that Kanter said that the report that he was going to opt out is not true. He says that he is going to make his decision at the last possible second. Only reason to do that is you are going to opt in and that you are desperate for attention. O?Quinn opted out at the 1st possible second, Kanter will opt in at the last possible second. Fine.
 

tiger0330

Legend
I could see the interest on the part of the Bucks, he'd be better than Henson but they would have to clear salary to get him. Get Kanter or renounce Jabari, I doubt the Bucks renounce Parker to get Kanter.
 

mafra

Legend
Would be interesting to see if we could trade Kanter tho... and, if we did, would we target a player like Parker? Lock him up on the cheap? Or swipe a Randle or Smart, as a RFA?

Do you roll the dice on a Parker? Buy low? Invest in a young player like Smart or Randle?

Or just go with all kids this year... secure best pick possible (assuming that vet guys would fetch a few more wins) and wait to spend money next year?

Don?t get me wrong, if we start the kids and win 33 games... I?m not complaining... just don?t want to win 33 with vets who aren?t part of the future, and their playing time comes at expense of kids.

In other words, if we could send Kanter and Lee over to MIL for Parker... in a sign and trade... would it be wise to gamble on a young wing player like that?

Lee and Kanter would really help MIL...
 

tiger0330

Legend
Would be interesting to see if we could trade Kanter tho... and, if we did, would we target a player like Parker? Lock him up on the cheap? Or swipe a Randle or Smart, as a RFA?

Do you roll the dice on a Parker? Buy low? Invest in a young player like Smart or Randle?

Or just go with all kids this year... secure best pick possible (assuming that vet guys would fetch a few more wins) and wait to spend money next year?

Don’t get me wrong, if we start the kids and win 33 games... I’m not complaining... just don’t want to win 33 with vets who aren’t part of the future, and their playing time comes at expense of kids.

In other words, if we could send Kanter and Lee over to MIL for Parker... in a sign and trade... would it be wise to gamble on a young wing player like that?

Lee and Kanter would really help MIL...
Kanter would be pissed, he opts in to stay in NY because he loves NYC and then we send him to the boonies of MIL. Jabari is a RFA himself looking for a max deal so that's got to get sorted out before you discuss any deal with him. I really don't see a deal for Jabari with the Knicks, unlike in the past they're not trading firsts and they're not signing guys with histories of knee surgeries anymore.
 

Mike1989

Rookie
Kanter would be pissed, he opts in to stay in NY because he loves NYC and then we send him to the boonies of MIL. Jabari is a RFA himself looking for a max deal so that's got to get sorted out before you discuss any deal with him. I really don't see a deal for Jabari with the Knicks, unlike in the past they're not trading firsts and they're not signing guys with histories of knee surgeries anymore.

If Kanter tells us he's only opting in to stay in New York long term and if we don't want to extend him he will opt out and test free agency, at that point it might be considered a low-ball move to trade him if he's been honest about his intentions, however we don't really owe him anything and in our current situation our front office are always going to do what is best for this team long term. If that means trading Kanter after he opts in for a young high upside prospect (e.g. Jabari Parker), or just a young glue guy that fills a hole in our starting line up (e.g. Tony Snell), then in all honest we should expect our front office to make that trade and not worry about whether Kanter feels aggrieved by the situation. At the end of the day the NBA is a business and Kanter likely knows that, and whether he's here in New York or out in Milwaukee he is going to get paid $18,622,514 next season for his services.

As for a potential trade it depends on whether Milwaukee want to pay Jabari Parker a max level deal and believe he's part of their long term future. With how they stand currently they have Giannis as their go to guy at PF, Middleton as their second option 20 a night scorer at SF, and Snell as their 3-and-D specialist at SG and he's hitting 40% of his three point attempts. That trio seems pretty set and I don't see them moving Giannis to center to free up the power forward spot for Parker. If Parker was a more consistent 3 point shooter and a better defender they might have been able to take Snell out of the starting line up, move Middleton to SG, and start Parker at SF but I don't see that scenario happening either. Likewise Middleton is a better player so he's not dropping out of the line up for Parker. So I think that makes Parker expendable for the right price and I don't see it including a future first round pick.

What's a max contract worth for Jabari Parker? I think the figure mentioned is between $146 million for five years, that is an average salary of $29,200,000. Now that might seem excessive considering Parker has had his injury woes but he would bring a potential 20 a night scorer to this team and a former second overall pick. If he can stay healthy and is on a team that will start him, he can still be a very good player in this league. He would be an ideal fit at SF/PF with Knox at the other forward spot and KP at center. That would be a pretty good young front court to work around. Admittedly there's injury risk with Parker and KP but sometimes you have to take that.

So what could we offer them in exchange? Well Kanter will earn roughly $18.6 million next season. He is a capable starter if they want another scorer, or they could use him as a sixth man like OKC did a couple of seasons ago and he actually posted some of the best numbers of his career in that role. We could then throw Courtney Lee's $12.2 million contract into the deal as well giving them another 3-and-D SG/SF option. That duo would help them be more competitive in the play offs next season. This deal would get them a return for a player they are not going to match. I think they'd do it and happily add Lee and Kanter and be a better team for it, as below with their depth chart:

- PG: Bledsoe / Brogdon / Dellavedova
- SG: Snell / DiVincenzo (Draft Pick) / Brown
- SF: Middleton / Lee
- PF: Giannis / Henson / Wilson
- C: Kanter / Maker / Zeller

I guess we could go one step further and throw Lance Thomas into the deal with Lee and Kanter, then take Parker and Dellavedova. The latter has shown he can play both guard spots and shoot threes at a good rate. We could use him off the bench with Burke, if Frank and Hardaway are our starting guards. His contract is reasonable enough to not make it burdensome and would be off the books in 2020 the same year as Lee and Thomas' deals. Either deal works for both parties.

Deal 1
- PG: Frank / Burke / Baker
- SG: Hardaway / Mudiay / Dotson
- SF: Knox / Williams
- PF: Parker / Thomas
- C: KP [when healthy] / Noah / Robinson

Deal 2
- PG: Frank / Burke / Baker
- SG: Hardaway / Dellavedova / Mudiay
- SF: Knox / Dotson?
- PF: Parker / Williams?
- C: KP [when healthy] / Noah / Robinson
I guess Parker's max deal could make it problematic in the pursuit of Kyrie Irving, but we have to ask ourselves how realistic it is for us to acquire him. At the end of the day the Boston Celtics have to be the favorites for his extension because there is no weakness in their starting line up next season with Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum and Horford. Factor in their pick next year from Sacramento which could be another high value pick and they are well set to be a contender for many years to come. Obviously he might want to play in New York and lead this team which would be great for us but we can't pin our hopes on a guy that might never join us.
 
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tiger0330

Legend
After Stat, McDyess, Houston no thanks to Jabari Parker esp if its for 146M. Parker ain't getting anywhere near that amount, Bucks might not even match a 4yr 80M deal if some team offers it to him. More likely the market is cold for him this off-season and he plays for the qualifying offer from the Bucks and becomes an unrestricted FA next season.
 

mafra

Legend
Good post, Mike. Lee is on the books for 12 mil next year anyway... LT for 7... so, if we send both of those to MIL... even if we take back a bad contract in Delly... NYK still shave 10 mil off the books. So, if we hand out a big contract you Parker... say he?s on books for 18-23 mil for 2019... well, subtract the 10 we save in this deal... and it still leaves NYK with enough to offer Kyrie a max (if we flex Noah).

Tough call... but I think Parker, Smart, and randle are young and good enough to roll the dice on. Like you said, not looking hopeful we?ll get Kyrie, Klay or Kawhi... our luck, we end up giving a max to the only one willing to accept it - Kevin Love.

We could see both Kanter and Parker accept their QO... only to then see them dealt for one another.
 

Mike1989

Rookie
After Stat, McDyess, Houston no thanks to Jabari Parker esp if its for 146M. Parker ain't getting anywhere near that amount, Bucks might not even match a 4yr 80M deal if some team offers it to him. More likely the market is cold for him this off-season and he plays for the qualifying offer from the Bucks and becomes an unrestricted FA next season.

Ideally Parker doesn't get a max contract and based on his injury history and lack of cap space around the league I think an $80 million 4 year deal is a possibility. At that price point I would take a risk because I can see him being at least a Rudy Gay caliber player in this league. Rudy Gay averaged 17.9 per game for Memphis, 19.5 for Toronto, and 19.3 for Sacramento. If we got that level of production from Jabari Parker we would have two scorers in him and Hardaway to pair with KP. This is even ignoring the possibility that Kevin Knox can develop into a scorer. Essentially we need to be in talent acquisition mode and Parker is well worth rolling the dice on, much like Julius Randle would be worth taking a risk on.

The way I see it is we have three paths open to us:

1. Build through the draft: This option involves ignoring free agency and trades, instead we build around in house young talent. We tank next season for a high pick and potentially add another lottery pick the following year. Thus we round out a Frank, Knox, KP, 2019 and 2020 draft picks.

2. Take a risk on free agency:
This could mean going for an RFA like Parker or Randle, or waiting until 2019 to go after Kyrie and Kawhi, or 2020 for Klay. Essentially our hopes are pinned around landing a franchise changing talent (or two) to pair with KP, Knox and Frank.

3. Take a risk on a trade: Now this path can involve trading for a potential franchise changing player (e.g. somehow finding a way to get Kawhi) or doing a sign-and-trade for an RFA like Parker or Randle.

The problem with all three paths is they are all risky and have no guarantee of success. We could try to stick with drafting players but we could miss on franchise changing talent. If we try the free agent route they might prefer to go elsewhere, the Mavericks are a prime example of continuing to miss out on top free agents since their title win in 2011. And trades might result in that player leaving or not getting it done. But the flip side of each route is maybe we do land franchise changing talent through the draft, or maybe that free agent or traded player gets it done. You don't get anywhere in life without taking a risk or two at some point and at this juncture we need to be open minded to going down any of these routes.

Which would I gamble on? Well, I'd probably take a risk on Parker or Randle as long as they were not max level deals because they can slot in with KP, Knox and Frank as our young core to build around. Add the 2019 draft pick and we can roll out a young ascending line up in the 2019-2020 season aiming for the play offs. I'd love Kyrie or Kawhi, but I am not convinced we are a free agent haven as much as we'd like to think we are one, and if we swing and miss we'll end up stuck like the Mavericks have been since 2011 which is no good for anyone, and that could see KP leave because he might not be as loyal as Dirk has been to the Mavericks.
 

mafra

Legend
I agree. We?ve attempted the trade / free agent route since 2000 and have produced nothing but an awful 17-yr run of futility. 1 good season in 17 years.

We had a chance to use the 9th pick to accumulate assets for a future trade, but we drafted Knox (instead of trading 9 for 16 and a future, unprotected 1st).

We aren?t tanking next season... but we are going the smart route. Is this because we don?t have cap space? We shall see, but I?ll be pissed if we use our MLE and something else and brought in a Beasley type and something else... I?ll also be pissed if Lee gets a ton of minutes.

We are so close... We drafted 3 lottery prospects in the span of 4 years.. Now, while we may not be rich in terms of evident talent... there?s enough hope to believe in buying the future of all 3 picks... if we stick to our guns and play the kids... We guarantee another top lottery pick while we develop the kids.

We could be sitting here next year with KP showing he?s healthy again, the third pick in the draft, with Knits and Knox and possibly another young asset or 2 to boast of (Mitchell Robinson, Mudiay, Burke perhaps).

Then, all it takes is 1 free agent or shrewd trade... and NY is back. And, once we are back, as with any good team, the free agents will flock.

So, while adding Parker or Randle may jeopardize our draft position... NY can be stagnant and wish for future free agents.

If we gamble on Parker for 4/80... or Randle... and they show something... that goes a long way to recruit free agent next summer anyway.

Look at Livingston in GSW. He?s a key cog in their rotation... he?s another top young talent written off bc of a knee injury.

Doesn?t hurt Parker is a Duke guy too.

Anyway, I think NY?s main focus should be to shed contracts of Lee, LT, and Noah... Lee especially. Perry has to find a taker... Most teams are able to dump these types... let?s see if Perry can earn his keep and do this.

If we can shed LT and Lee from our 2019 book... why not bring in Parker... even if just a straight up swap for 20 mil in 2019 (in that 2 for 1)...
 

tiger0330

Legend
If it was me I'd burn all my dough on lottery tickets for young guns like Kornet, Hicks, Robinson etc. like Perry is doing. Try to find a couple of gems among them, kind of like panning for gold, look in the right places and screen enough players you're likely to find someone. Perry is taking that approach it seems with Kornet and Robinson, Kornet was yesterday's flavor of the day and Robinson today's.

Talking about FA this year is a waste of time in light of what Perry said about the Knicks not being active this season, I think he'll hold to that even if Kanter opts out creating some cap space. As far as Parker, my guess is teams will pass on him until he shows he can stay on the floor for a full season, he's still a step slow defensively also. I'd wait to see if he gets that back before committing 80M to the guy, I'd rather throw 60M to Will Barton instead of Jabari.
 

mafra

Legend
I probably wouldn?t feel comfortable giving Parker anything more than 2/40... player option year 2.

But, Parker is a lottery ticket.... Barton is 4 years older and is more of Lee redux. He?s the type you get when you?re Indiana or something and have a good team already.

Parker is the type you roll dice on if price is right. Only reason NYK would have a shot is bc of his red flags. Most likely, he?s the type where in 2 years he?ll recover enough to be a useful guy. That?s it.

I wouldn?t go crazy to get him but if I could trade Kanter and Lee or LT and Lee for him, I do it in a heartbeat... but only if he accepts his QO, bc I wouldn?t feel Good giving him a large commitment.

Point is, while we look to deal useful parts... the thinking should be to collect young assets (picks or players).

Again, the most important mission for the next 12 months is to get out under of 3 contracts: Lee, Noah, LT.
 

Kiyaman

Legend


Mafra .. nice piece on Knox .. I'm looking forward to the 18 yr old Knox manning both forward spot-positions in his rookie season (more like Kuzma), plus i hope the Knicks new (so-called) developing coaching-staff let both veterans Kanter n Noah mentor Knox in the front-line rotation throughout the 2018-19 season.
I don't see Kanter opting-out of this season contract (18M) !!!
I'm hoping coach Fiz make Noah the 7th Man off the bench next season ..
I'm hoping to see a 2-Way 4th quarter lineup of "Noah/Knox/Williams/Knits/Burke" to be our crunch-time lineup.
I'm hoping Kanter / Timmy /and Mudiay start next season having a decent offensive-chemistry in their lineup together.
I'm looking forward to Dotson n Baker n rookie Robinson to have a break-out mid-season performance.

A injury-prone Parker on the Knicks would look real bad having Knick fans expecting a injury every time Parker suit up.
Randal has become a decent 25 minute backup PF a team could use for bench depth n energy.
Jerami Grant has become a decent 2-Way SF that's hungry for a starter position.
Or we could resign Beasley, but this season we put Beasley as our starter SF.

The Knicks poor coaching-staff n clueless head coach rotation the past 5 seasons are responsible for 65% of the Knick 30 win seasons.
If the Knicks tank next season to become a top-10 lottery pick team for the 2019 draft .. then Fiz and the entire coaching-staff need to be FIRED asap before the June 2019 draft night !!!
 
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