Results 1 to 3 of 3
  1. #1
    12th man
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Rep Power

    Nyk Logo How overrated is Kanter? It's complicated

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Do ‘empty stats’ exist?
    Enes Kanter needs to forget about DRE
    By Drew Steele@ScooterToots Sep 5, 2018, 9:30am EDT
    Jeremy Brevard-USA TODAY Sports
    It’s an important question to ask: do empty statistics exist in basketball? Short answer: no… per se. However, you’re reading this with the intention of me expanding on the topic, so I will continue. This concept of production not leading to value on the court or team wins is a fascinating one. Whether you want to frame the discussion harshly by saying a player has “empty stats” or the more polite way of a player has “good stats but on a bad team,” determining if box score statistics paint an accurate picture of a player’s value on the court is not only a discussion worth having, but also one that is ever present in online NBA communities, sports talk radio, and everything in between.

    Every team has that guy who fans point to and say something along the lines of “his numbers are empty and don’t contribute to winning.” DeMar DeRozan gets the brunt of this by a segment of Raptors fandom. Despite averaging 23.0 points, 3.9 rebounds, 5.2 assists, and being named an All-Star last season, Toronto was +9.9 with DeRozan off the floor compared to +7.2 when he was on the floor, an on/off differential –2.7, per Basketball-Reference. For the Knicks, the empty stats target is zeroed in on Enes Kanter, a player whose on/off differential was –2.3 as a bad Knicks was less bad with him off the floor.
    Unfortunately for Kanter, he was the inspiration for this article. When you look at Kanter’s box score stats from last season, they look quite impressive: 14.1 points on 63.0 true shooting percentage, 11.0 rebounds, and a career-high 1.5 assists. His per-100 possession numbers are even more impressive, as he averaged 27.1 points and 21.1 rebounds. How could anyone say with a straight face that a player who averages an efficient double-double is not providing value, not contributing to winning, and is putting up empty statistics?

    Well… Enes Kanter, despite averaging an efficient double-double, does not provide value, does not contribute to winning basketball, and puts up empty statistics… sort of.
    “Empty stats” is a misleading term. The issue isn’t that a player’s box score statistics don’t have value — they do and contribute to winning basketball games — but rather a player is performing so poorly in other facets of the game that it is taking away the positives of putting up good basic box score statistics. This is where DRE enters the programs.
    DRE is an acronym for “Daily RAPM Estimate.” The metric was developed by Kevin Ferrigan back in 2015 and then updated in 2017. His goal was to track game-to-game performance fluctuations by determining what weights to place on specific box score metrics. Ferrigan’s methodology is somewhat of a raw, stripped-down version of Basketball-Reference’s box plus-minus. He ran a linear regression of per-100 possession basic box score stats against 14 seasons worth of multi-year RAPM.

    Ferrigan reworked the regression’s explanitory variables a few years later and settled on the following: points, two-point attempts, three-point attempts, free throw attempts, offensive rebounds, defensive rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, turnovers and personal fouls (sound familiar?).

  2. #2
    12th man
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Rep Power


    Kanter's type of performance are why the selection of Mitchell Robinson 2-Way multi-position performance will be a super-super steal for the Knicks in the 2018 Draft class. Plus the rumors of buying-out or stretching Noah's contract.
    Having KP out till December or January would give coach Fix plenty of playing time to establish young Noah Vonleh and Mitchell Robinson at the PF position.
    Im hoping head coach Fix (Fizdale) start putting Mitchell Robinson in the starting lineup as PF alongside center Kanter every once in a while or at least at the end of every Back to Back game in the upcoming season to give him playing-time confidence at the PF position in his rookie season.

  3. #3
    12th man
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Rep Power


    Kanter average a Grade "B" performance in my book for last season performance as our Starter-Center ....

    It's a situation where a player gets labeled and that tag maybe stuck on him throughout the rest of his career.
    Kanter maybe far from a great defensive player but I don't think he was nearly as bad as advertised, especially his standout performance when he arrived as a Knick last season. I guess after helping Westbrook win the MVP Kanter got in probably the best shape of his career over the offseason to not be a liability coming off the bench for the Thunder. I'm not saying Kanter was great defensively, I'm just saying he wasn't THAT bad.
    I think Kanter's biggest issue were not being able to defend the pick and roll and the perimeter. Sometime Kanter's movement in the rotations were late having the Knicks Tanking-system in full affect after lastseason 36th games. However, Kanter doesn't have great foot speed or lateral quickness making him limited when he does not have any help-defense in the paint from his forwards.
    Hopefully, new coach Fix (Fizdale) will fix this early in the regular season having two new help defenders added to the frontline in PF Vonleh and rookie PF Robinson.
    That being said, offensively Kanter is a beast! 27 points and 12 rebounds per 100 possessions are very impressive, If Kanter can muster up enough defense having Vonleh or Robinson alongside of him to grab 26 to 30 minute of playing time, Kanter can average 20 and 12 easy in the upcoming season.
    I will be cheering for our Starter center Kanter in the upcoming season .. so I'm on Kanter side this season until proven otherwise. Kanter looks like he is in great shape to start the season so lets see how he performs on our confused mismanagement team.
    Go Knicks!!!

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: Apr 09, 2018, 19:25
  2. Is Gallinari overrated?
    By OGKnickfan in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: Feb 13, 2009, 06:37
  3. 10 Most Overrated
    By MSGKnickz33 in forum NBA
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: Dec 02, 2008, 11:43
  4. Larry Brown overrated
    By Rojasmas in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Aug 09, 2005, 16:23
  5. Sweetney overrated?
    By Big C in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: Feb 09, 2005, 02:28

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts