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  1. #1
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    Default Current Knicks Defense and Off ratings

    Through 17 games on off court Def and Off ratings along with net diff.

    Best Defensive players off/on court Thomas and Dotson. Nits -4.9 in line with Trey, Vonleh and MRob. Hardaway the worst defensive diff, a terrible +17, Mudiay and Kanter are poor defenders as well. From NBA.com


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    Last edited by tiger0330; Nov 20, 2018 at 16:14.

  2. #2
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    Based on the above the logical choice at PG would be Trey when Fiz finishes tinkering.

  3. #3
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    So many agendas within the fans base...not KO per say


    1 yr we go from talking up lock down defenders ~ Shumpert & Douglas

    Another yr we go from talking up hockey assists ~ Melo

    Another yr from talking about need for a stretch 4 X factor piece ~ Bargnani

    Another yr from talking about positive signs attracting free agents ~ Afflalo

    Another yr from talking about having a unicorn ~ #kporzee

    Another yr about how great our drafting is ~ #kporzee, Cleanthony, Thanasis, Jordan, Grant, Knits, Dotson, Willy

    Another yr about +/- on off court overall

    Another yr about +/- on off court defense

    Probably end the yr defaulting back to how great we draft ~ Add Knox, Trier, Robinson

    LOL @ this Fan Base.

    Quite funny we're stuck on the Defensive Net rating when there's currently an article discussing our lottery pick who I remind everyone blew Miles Bridges out of the water during a workout showing same tendencies in college for not staying connected(LOW MOTOR) in a game and then the ongoing issue of a "so called" point guard who never started at this position overseas who can't score or hit a 3 to save his life in a league that made it easier to score and emphasizes the 3 ball...

    But this is what we're discussing as paramount currently? For the record I do like our picks a little more than the previous bunch but if they are what we think they are we should be avoiding the continual lottery results.


    Oh and don't let things slip like some of us are accustomed to doing when making player comparisons but Trae Young snuck a 25/17 game on the league the other night but I'm sure Atlanta constantly shows him how he can't score on Knits to keep him grounded

  4. #4
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    More advanced stats on our players. This one off of NYKFP.com from ESPN. I think these stats are more useful than when Tommy Beer tweets when Knits plays 30 mins or more we're 3-1 and when he plays less we're 1-13 or something like that as an endorsement of Nits because these stats say he borderline stinks. It's early in the season and with Fiz juggling his lineups we don't have large enough sample sizes on guys to really determine their impact as a caveat about any statistic.


    Knicks' ranks out of 430 total players in ESPN's Real Plus-Minus (RPM):

    92. Hardaway Jr.
    93. Vonleh
    97. Robinson
    206. Thomas
    221. Burke
    232. Kornet
    267. Mudiay
    308. Baker
    332. Dotson
    359. Kanter
    411. Ntilikina
    413. Trier
    424. Knox
    425. Hezonja

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    With Ntilikina on the court, we lose 100 to 90. With Ntilkina off the court, we lose 130 to 120. We just keep losing, which will continue until the last 2 weeks of the season when we win 5 of our last 6 and end up with the 7th pick in the draft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by htr10 View Post
    With Ntilikina on the court, we lose 100 to 90. With Ntilkina off the court, we lose 130 to 120. We just keep losing, which will continue until the last 2 weeks of the season when we win 5 of our last 6 and end up with the 7th pick in the draft.
    Spoken like a long term suffering Knicks fan. lol

  7. #7
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    Its kind of hard to rate any Knick players after Fizdale's fake coaching for 17 regular season games, and preseason games.
    The science behind Fizdale's many changes in the starting lineups and the many different game rotation in less than 17 games in the season, plus Fizdale selected a starting lineup to start the regular season that Fizdale never put on the court in any of the preseason games .. its hard to rate the 5 game starting lineup or the individual players in the lineup. Why? So many NBA teams started out slow this season but kept their same lineups and game rotation. Example: Look at the Houston Rockets they just won 4 straight games after taking one player out of their rotation 4 games ago.

    The 17 game Knicks does not have a Game-Plan, nor do they have a basic system the team rely on in offense or defense.

  8. #8
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    Here's the current real +/- ESPN numbers for the Knicks players. Nits , Zo and Knox with abysmal real RPM stats, currently ranked 471, 472 and 473 respectively out of 475 NBA players in real RPM. I did read a comment that the Knicks hoped that Nits and Knox stats were not a a true indication of their abilities but Triers poor showing is new. BTW, the best real RPM player is Harden, the worst is Sexton of the Cavs.


    New York Knicks

    PLAYER ORPM DRPM RPM WINS PREDICT
    Tim Hardaway Jr. 1.46 -2.37 -0.91 1.80 1.13
    Noah Vonleh 0.23 2.24 2.47 3.96 0.99
    Mitchell Robinson -1.18 1.15 -0.03 0.95 -0.06
    Luke Kornet -0.45 0.73 0.28 0.54 -0.77
    Enes Kanter -0.31 -1.26 -1.57 1.08 -1.09
    Courtney Lee -1.07 -0.03 -1.10 0.19 -1.73
    Trey Burke 0.13 -1.72 -1.59 0.54 -1.85
    Damyean Dotson -1.10 -1.08 -2.18 0.48 -2.15
    Mario Hezonja -2.78 -0.10 -2.88 0.10 -3.13
    Frank Ntilikina -3.29 -2.30 -5.59 -1.18 -3.50
    Emmanuel Mudiay 0.38 -1.35 -0.97 1.25 -3.60
    Lance Thomas -2.57 1.38 -1.19 0.30 -3.72
    Allonzo Trier -2.34 -2.96 -5.30 -1.03 -5.15
    Kevin Knox -2.24 -3.78 -6.02 -1.69 -5.69
    Sorted by predictive RPM

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    Thanks Tig, I'm going to use this on Twitter and tag some people. They aren't going to like what they see. I don't care for RPM but I'm going to post this to prove a point. BTW aren't the numbers quite different than when the season started?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway View Post
    Thanks Tig, I'm going to use this on Twitter and tag some people. They aren't going to like what they see. I don't care for RPM but I'm going to post this to prove a point. BTW aren't the numbers quite different than when the season started?
    Like all stats you have to take them with a grain of salt but this real RPM is what ESPN uses in their team predictions for the season and I believe they have been accurate in predicting how teams would perform but I would think the Wiz will be an outlier this season so no stat is perfect but it has been good in predicting the Knicks win loss record the past several seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger0330 View Post
    Like all stats you have to take them with a grain of salt but this real RPM is what ESPN uses in their team predictions for the season and I believe they have been accurate in predicting how teams would perform but I would think the Wiz will be an outlier this season so no stat is perfect but it has been good in predicting the Knicks win loss record the past several seasons.

    I posted it about and hour ago and no reply to it and I know exactly why. Tagged about 10 accounts. It's hilarious how quiet they are on this front

    I actually hope people are starting to get the point to not get doped/liquored up by stats, especially advance stats. The Blogs, Elias Sports, Sabermetricians, DraftKing era has IMO corrupted the way people view sports and why they watch. It's taken so much out of the pure aspect, of what being a fan is supposed to be about, away.

    I'm trying to reverse course to help change this type of thinking and get back to eye test matching it with quality review and meaningful discussions. I'm not saying don't ever use stats, they are very much needed but use them correctly and judiciously.

    I was debating with Stefan Bondy today(probably irritated him) nevertheless it dawned on me when looking at numbers...did Knick fans know every player on this team has started except Ron Baker and had he still been around I believe he would've. That's crazy and people are writing think pieces on what could be the cause of our current record trying to single out players and excuse others...
    Last edited by Broadway; Jan 19, 2019 at 21:31.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway View Post
    I posted it about and hour ago and no reply to it and I know exactly why. Tagged about 10 accounts. It's hilarious how quiet they are on this front

    I actually hope people are starting to get the point to not get doped/liquored up by stats, especially advance stats. The Blogs, Elias Sports, Sabermetricians, DraftKing era has IMO corrupted the way people view sports and why they watch. It's taken so much out of the pure aspect, of what bing a fan is supposed to be about, away.

    I'm trying to reverse course to help change this type of thinking and get back to eye test matching it with quality review and meaningful discussions. I'm not saying don't ever use stats, they are very much needed but use them correctly and judiciously.

    I was debating with Stefan Bondy today(probably irritated him) nevertheless it dawned on me when looking at numbers...did Knick fans know every player on this team has started except Ron Baker and had he still been around I believe he would've. That's crazy and people are writing think pieces on what could be the cause of our current record trying to single out players and excuse others...
    With the Knicks you may have a point as far as eye test, I guess you're going to argue THJ is not as good as his RPM albeit he has a negative one but it is one of the better ones on the team and Nits, Zo and Knox are better than their numbers.

    I'm surprised about Knox's numbers because he just won the rook of the month so you would think he would have improved from his early season numbers but don't think they have. I'd like to hear from your sources about the trend of KKs numbers over the course of the season and the explanation of why his RPM hasn't improved when he had a sensational month of DEC. Knox doesn't worry me because he seems to have a foundation he can grow from, a body that looks like he can get stronger and athleticism. Nits I don't know until he can string a few games together, nothing stands out about him even his D though he's conscientious about his D. Zo even if he doesn't develop into a rotation player, you haven't lost much as an undrafted player.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger0330 View Post
    Here's the current real +/- ESPN numbers for the Knicks players. Nits , Zo and Knox with abysmal real RPM stats, currently ranked 471, 472 and 473 respectively out of 475 NBA players in real RPM. I did read a comment that the Knicks hoped that Nits and Knox stats were not a a true indication of their abilities but Triers poor showing is new. BTW, the best real RPM player is Harden, the worst is Sexton of the Cavs.


    New York Knicks

    PLAYER ORPM DRPM RPM WINS PREDICT
    Tim Hardaway Jr. 1.46 -2.37 -0.91 1.80 1.13
    Noah Vonleh 0.23 2.24 2.47 3.96 0.99
    Mitchell Robinson -1.18 1.15 -0.03 0.95 -0.06
    Luke Kornet -0.45 0.73 0.28 0.54 -0.77
    Enes Kanter -0.31 -1.26 -1.57 1.08 -1.09
    Courtney Lee -1.07 -0.03 -1.10 0.19 -1.73
    Trey Burke 0.13 -1.72 -1.59 0.54 -1.85
    Damyean Dotson -1.10 -1.08 -2.18 0.48 -2.15
    Mario Hezonja -2.78 -0.10 -2.88 0.10 -3.13
    Frank Ntilikina -3.29 -2.30 -5.59 -1.18 -3.50
    Emmanuel Mudiay 0.38 -1.35 -0.97 1.25 -3.60
    Lance Thomas -2.57 1.38 -1.19 0.30 -3.72
    Allonzo Trier -2.34 -2.96 -5.30 -1.03 -5.15
    Kevin Knox -2.24 -3.78 -6.02 -1.69 -5.69
    Sorted by predictive RPM
    The only Knick players receiving consistent minutes, where the ratings above speak clarity of their performance are 3 Knick players .. Timmy, Mudiay, and Knox.
    The rest of the Knick players has been receiving spot-minute playing-time (2 to 4 minute a quarter), plus DNP for several games, it's hard to rate their +/- performance when they are never on the court long enough to warm up with the teammates in the line-up or to the opponents lineup.
    When a Knick player receive 8 to 19 minute of playing time from Fizdale in a game, game after game .. receiving under 5 minute of playing-time each quarter. Com'on! That is not a sign of "Developing Young-core players !!!
    Thats TANKING !!!

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    Iíve backed off on advanced metrics.

    Honestly, Iím not sure what to say other than that. I still try to watch every game, but this yearís team has really been hard for me to get behind. Much more than past seasons. Advanced metrics or not, only player who I am still 100% behind is Mitchell Robinson. Dude is the real deal. With improved health and experience, he is going to be a winner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by htr10 View Post
    Iíve backed off on advanced metrics.

    Honestly, Iím not sure what to say other than that. I still try to watch every game, but this yearís team has really been hard for me to get behind. Much more than past seasons. Advanced metrics or not, only player who I am still 100% behind is Mitchell Robinson. Dude is the real deal. With improved health and experience, he is going to be a winner.
    The only thing stopping Robinson are his health and poor decisions in regards to fouling excessively.

    Imagine him with KP on defense?


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