KNICKS MOB
Benchwarmer
Oh and I also think it has to do with bad karma
What is wrong with the Knicks??!!
- Thread starter The Dragon
- Start date
Phil Jackson first trade on the Knicks, and Phil's first FA signing were top orders from up-stairs owner Dolan ....
1) Trading center Tyson Chandler, because Tyson made several comments bout Melo's poor defensive-switch always lead to opponent scoring easy baskets (same comment Camby made bout Melo on the Denver Nuggets losing in the first round playoffs to be quickly traded in the off-season.
2) And the resigning of FA Melo, who let everyone know at the start of the previous season he would rather play for the next team when he became a FA.
The above two moves were done by Phil Jackson in his first off-season as the Knicks president however, those two decision came from Dolan.
My biggest beef against HOF coach Phil Jackson as Knick president were Phil fired the entire Knicks coaching-staff, then hired a worst coaching-staff than he fired to replace them.
Bottom Line .. we all knew Phil had no history as a GM or President (Dolan included) !!!
The Dragon
Benchwarmer
we all say that, but last few years he is doing nothing, or at least appears to do nothing...... what did he do recently that damaged the team that much?
KNICKS MOB
Benchwarmer
His presence alone gives us bad luck.
No but seriously he shouldn't have said anything in free agency.
That could've rubbed some free agents the wrong way.
Other than that the hires he has made have been decent.
In the past 40 years the Knicks has been one of the top 5 teams having the most sell-out games at home in MSG .. The Knicks went on a decade of LOSING- Streak and still were one of the Top-5 sold-out stadiums in the NBA.
So far at the start of the millenium Dolan has concoted two plans .. Dolan's first Plan A .. were to spend a $100M cap each season on star players to make the playoffs .. Plan A became unsuccessful throughout a decade.
Now .. Dolan has been using Plan B for a half of decade, by receiving a 1 to 10 first round NBA draft pick in 4 of the Knicks past 5 season.
Dolan has even tried to take the Knicks international by selecting over-sea players in the draft with the Knicks top 10 picks in the NBA first round.
In 2014-15 Knicks had a 17 win season to receive the 4th pick in draft ..
In 2016-17 Knicks had a 31 win season to receive the 9th pick in draft ..
In 2017-18 Knicks had a 29 win season to receive the 9th pick in draft ..
In 2018-19 Knicks had a 17 win season to receive the 3rd pick in draft ..
What's wrong with Dolan's Plan B? Dolan's front-office did not hire several of the unemployed ex-headcoaches for the Knicks coaching-staff to mentor college players into NBA players.
The Dragon
Benchwarmer
But is it a one man show? i can't believe that an organization as big as the knicks is dominated by the opinion of Dolan, if so, at least the people who left it will criticize him, especially somebody like Phil Jackson. and i believe our current fron office is good, right?
Yeah .. its still a one man show .. I recall a guy name Herb Williams being a Knick top assistant head-coach under 4 or 5 of the Knicks head-coaches.
And only one of the Knicks head-coaches approve of Herb being his top assistant coach (Don Chaney).
The Knicks having a majority of young-core players for the 2nd season again (that just had a 17 win season and not firing the head-coach), you would think the Knicks front-office would've invested in one or two of the many unemployed head-coaches in this offseason to be Fizdale's top assistant-coach throughout the upcoming 2019-20 season. All the front office did was add their G.League head-coach to Fizdale's staff (Mike Miller).
For years a lot of NBA teams journeymen head-coaches has been needing the help of a veteran head-coach on their coaching-staff to be able to run a decent offense consistently, or a decent defense consistently to win games.
Last season ....
Did Fizdale's offense need help? YES! 17 win season!
Did Fizdale's defense need help? YES! 17 win season!
Did Fizdale's lineups need help? YES! ......................!
Did Fizdale's substitution need help? YES! ................!
How much does Dolan/Mills/Perry believe their off-season moves will produce a .500 performance Knick team in the upcoming season ???
The Dragon
Benchwarmer
I agree with all that BUT, do we have a better coach/player/assistant who wants to come to NY and we said no or hired somebody else? it is this vicious circle of good coaches\players\assistants... do not want to come until you are good and winning and you can't win until good coaches\players\assistants... join!!!! go figure
Dark Raider
Starter
Hi everybody,
1st time posting.
Got a question or two.
1. What was KP upset/mad with Phil about that he slip the exist meeting?
2. If KP was upset with Phil and Phil was gone then what was the problem or problems that made him not want to sign a new contract?
3. Doesn't the above two(2) question say that there was a deeper problem than Phil(if Phil was a problem at all).
4. Why didn't Fiz notice something was wrong with KP on his 3 week visit last summer(2018)? Fiz is suppose to be this player WHISPER!
5. If Mills/Perry since something was wrong with KP then why wait until this year(2019) trading deadline to make a desperate trade?
All this tell me is that there was a problem with KP during his rookie season. It doesn't seem like it was Phil!!! The problem was still there after Phil left. SO WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM OR PROBLEMS???
1st time posting.
Got a question or two.
1. What was KP upset/mad with Phil about that he slip the exist meeting?
2. If KP was upset with Phil and Phil was gone then what was the problem or problems that made him not want to sign a new contract?
3. Doesn't the above two(2) question say that there was a deeper problem than Phil(if Phil was a problem at all).
4. Why didn't Fiz notice something was wrong with KP on his 3 week visit last summer(2018)? Fiz is suppose to be this player WHISPER!
5. If Mills/Perry since something was wrong with KP then why wait until this year(2019) trading deadline to make a desperate trade?
All this tell me is that there was a problem with KP during his rookie season. It doesn't seem like it was Phil!!! The problem was still there after Phil left. SO WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM OR PROBLEMS???
mafra
Legend
KP was pissed at how PJax treated Melo...
His brother, Jan, kind of got in the way... his camp didn?t believe in Dolan/Mills, and that duo has been there regardless...
And, yes, all NYK problems stem from the inability of Dolan-Mills leadership combo.
Fiz went to Latvia to sell his vision.... supposedly, KP irked they didn?t want him returning last season and that first rift manifested itself when Fiz told the media KP would take time (to which KP immediately tweeted out his workout routine). Notice he never played for DAL either....
I think Perry acted quickly bc he believed he would lose leverage if KP went public with his trade demand. They?ll tell you it wasn?t about cap space, that getting a young player and first rounders was part of the package... but the main motivation probably came from their misplaced beliefs that KD was coming.
The smart play would have been to hold on to KP and see if he walks at end of this season.... but nobody ever accused Dolan and Mills of having an abundance of practical intelligence. Their first mistake was stretching Noah...
His brother, Jan, kind of got in the way... his camp didn?t believe in Dolan/Mills, and that duo has been there regardless...
And, yes, all NYK problems stem from the inability of Dolan-Mills leadership combo.
Fiz went to Latvia to sell his vision.... supposedly, KP irked they didn?t want him returning last season and that first rift manifested itself when Fiz told the media KP would take time (to which KP immediately tweeted out his workout routine). Notice he never played for DAL either....
I think Perry acted quickly bc he believed he would lose leverage if KP went public with his trade demand. They?ll tell you it wasn?t about cap space, that getting a young player and first rounders was part of the package... but the main motivation probably came from their misplaced beliefs that KD was coming.
The smart play would have been to hold on to KP and see if he walks at end of this season.... but nobody ever accused Dolan and Mills of having an abundance of practical intelligence. Their first mistake was stretching Noah...
I still think Porzingis was irked by the Knicks not giving him that max extension while he was rehabbing from his knee injury. I think the Knicks wanted him to come back in late Feb or Mar to evaluate him before giving him a max deal and he and his brother intended to take the entire season off to ensure a complete recovery. He's happy that Cuban acceded to his demands not rushing him back to play and also giving him his max deal.
That Knicks front office also has a credibility problem with no track record of winning and little to show except for tossing around cliches like changing the culture, building the team the right way etc. Porzingis wasn't buying it like most of the big name FA's.
That Knicks front office also has a credibility problem with no track record of winning and little to show except for tossing around cliches like changing the culture, building the team the right way etc. Porzingis wasn't buying it like most of the big name FA's.
Dark Raider
Starter
Being pissed with Phil about Melo?? Enough to make him slip an exist meeting and he's just a rookie. Who in the hell did he think he WAS!! I agree with Phil for getting rid of Melo and KP. Should have never given Melo a new contract. Just one of his mistake but at least he saw it and tried to correct it.
I'm not sure that the above cause was the real problem with KP.
I do think you are correct in the Dolan/Mills assessment. If Phil is gone then the problem should have been solve but it wasn't and that only leave Dolan/Mills.
I'm not a big or small Perry fan. Don't think he know talent or how to put a team together.
My problem is that Mills/Perry try to sell us(Fans) on a pipe-dream of 1st round overall pick(Zion) and FA(Durant & Irving). They had no plan B that is why they went and hided from public for a couple of weeks. I wouldn't have drafted Barnett and that other kid(Izzg). Trading back with Atlanta was what I would have done.
We as fans whether we want to acknowledge it have a very large problem. It like walking into a doctor office and him telling you that you have 'Big C'. QUESTION - HOW DO YOU GET RID OF IT???
I'm not sure that the above cause was the real problem with KP.
I do think you are correct in the Dolan/Mills assessment. If Phil is gone then the problem should have been solve but it wasn't and that only leave Dolan/Mills.
I'm not a big or small Perry fan. Don't think he know talent or how to put a team together.
My problem is that Mills/Perry try to sell us(Fans) on a pipe-dream of 1st round overall pick(Zion) and FA(Durant & Irving). They had no plan B that is why they went and hided from public for a couple of weeks. I wouldn't have drafted Barnett and that other kid(Izzg). Trading back with Atlanta was what I would have done.
We as fans whether we want to acknowledge it have a very large problem. It like walking into a doctor office and him telling you that you have 'Big C'. QUESTION - HOW DO YOU GET RID OF IT???
mafra
Legend
There was also the issue of his brother wanting more control within NYK .org...
?Porzingis didn?t like how the Knicks handled the end of the Carmelo Anthony era
Porzingis? frustration began during his second season in 2016-17. Then-Knicks boss Phil Jackson spent the year publicly feuding with star Carmelo Anthony. Jackson wanted to move on from Anthony, but his efforts were complicated by Anthony?s no-trade clause.
When the 2016-17 season, Jackson told reporters he thought Anthony would be better off chasing a championship ring elsewhere.
?I think the direction with our team is that he would be better off somewhere else,? Jackson said according to ESPN?s Ian Begley.
Later that day, Porzingis skipped his season-ending exit interview.?
?Porzingis didn?t like how the Knicks handled the end of the Carmelo Anthony era
Porzingis? frustration began during his second season in 2016-17. Then-Knicks boss Phil Jackson spent the year publicly feuding with star Carmelo Anthony. Jackson wanted to move on from Anthony, but his efforts were complicated by Anthony?s no-trade clause.
When the 2016-17 season, Jackson told reporters he thought Anthony would be better off chasing a championship ring elsewhere.
?I think the direction with our team is that he would be better off somewhere else,? Jackson said according to ESPN?s Ian Begley.
Later that day, Porzingis skipped his season-ending exit interview.?
The Dragon
Benchwarmer
I think we lost a very good player in KP, will he be healthy and play to his potential? nobody knows... what is funny in the current NBA that players have so much power, to the extent that they are damaging the whole thing.... they demand loyalty from the team but no player (except few maybe) is offering any loyalty, they are just chasing money.... the idea of franchise player is lost, the best players in the league are jumping from one team to the other. in the old days when you say Ewing you say Knicks, Jordan, Bulls, Kobe... Lakers.... through ups and downs.......... these players were the anchor where other things build around them, now who should retire Lebron's jersey? Cavs, Miami or the Lakers? back then players like KP would fight for several years to win something with their team, that will give the team space to change things in the proper way if they are not good, but now you have to win NOW in anyway, you just borrow players and stick them together and pray they will be good..... you can't have a great player who will take your team up the hill, maybe we have to change the way we are building our team...... if RJ is an all star in two years, and we are not winning, he will simply do the same... and the next draft pick and the next......
mafra
Legend
Crazy to think that Charlie Ward (1996?) was the last first round draft pick we signed to a second contract. Hardaway doesn?t count bc we traded him first.
I totally agree that the current economic structure, as spelled out in the CBA, isn?t working. The idea of max and supermax and catering the system to encourage A stars to remain in their small markets isn?t working. Agents and players skirt around the language by simply signing shorter deals with opt outs.
The cap situation is so convoluted. Like when Keith Van horn came out of retirement to be added as filler in a trade to make salaries work.
There will be a work stoppage and a dramatic re-working of the entire rigamarole....
Basically, Knicks dealt KP for 2 first rounders, and it?ll take a few years to see if they recovered any value.
Knicks should be featuring KP, DSJ or Mitchell, Knox and RJ as their dynamic young quartet.
They messed up the KP relationship, blew the Knits pick....
They had to use KP to atone for their Frank mistake, but DSJ or Mitchell should?ve already been here.
KP and Doncic will probably when multiple titles.
But it also could kill DAL, or would?ve killed NYK, handing out a max contract to an immature European who can?t stay healthy. Only time will tell. But, regardless, Knicks management certainly botched the KP situation.
Did Perry exasperate it? Salvage it?
We would be so much more pumped for this season with:
Payton
DSJ
RJ
KP
Randall
I totally agree that the current economic structure, as spelled out in the CBA, isn?t working. The idea of max and supermax and catering the system to encourage A stars to remain in their small markets isn?t working. Agents and players skirt around the language by simply signing shorter deals with opt outs.
The cap situation is so convoluted. Like when Keith Van horn came out of retirement to be added as filler in a trade to make salaries work.
There will be a work stoppage and a dramatic re-working of the entire rigamarole....
Basically, Knicks dealt KP for 2 first rounders, and it?ll take a few years to see if they recovered any value.
Knicks should be featuring KP, DSJ or Mitchell, Knox and RJ as their dynamic young quartet.
They messed up the KP relationship, blew the Knits pick....
They had to use KP to atone for their Frank mistake, but DSJ or Mitchell should?ve already been here.
KP and Doncic will probably when multiple titles.
But it also could kill DAL, or would?ve killed NYK, handing out a max contract to an immature European who can?t stay healthy. Only time will tell. But, regardless, Knicks management certainly botched the KP situation.
Did Perry exasperate it? Salvage it?
We would be so much more pumped for this season with:
Payton
DSJ
RJ
KP
Randall
Dark Raider
Starter
Jackson saying “I think the direction with our team is that he(Melo) would be better off somewhere else,” It Is and Was a fact. Melo hasn't help any team he has been with since leaving the Knicks. Farther more he wasn't going to help the Knicks.
Janis wanting more control within the Knicks org. bring up another question or two. If Melo stayed(thank god he didn't) then what would his people be saying about Janis wanting control?? So going over Mills head to Dolan trying to get the control they wanted? Mills should have put his foot in a certain place and kick him out of his office. There had to be 'SIGNS' that said it a problem brewing here. Should have traded KP before the start of his 2nd year or before the trade deadline.
Frank progress is being stall be Perry. Perry is jealous of anything that Phil drafted. Perry doesn't know talent and is mad that Phil had Gaines to lend on for help. Perry and Mills kept Gaines around just long enough to help with drafting Knox and Robinson then start pounding own there chest talking how GREAT AND SMART we are. Then send Gaines packing. Back to Frank!! Perry and Mills didn't re-sign D.Rose to help with Frank development. They sign Jack and Rose sign the vet. minimum with Cleveland. Now who would you rather tutoring your young PG Jack a journeyman or former MVP PG? Perry chose JACK. Fiz then have Frank going to the corner on offense to shoot 3's. Knowing very well that isn't Frank strong suit. They(Perry and Fiz -Maybe Mills) have no intention of letting Frank succeed. Perry is a selfish and very small individual.....It in his eyes.
We have NO CHEMISTRY on this team. I have faith in DSJ and RJ. Dallas got rid of DSJ for a reason. RJ wasn't worth drafting at #3...he doesn't move the needle of success for this team. Now if KP was still here a #4 pick...he move the needle. None of these players makes us any better than last year. Should have kept Mudiay and not sign Payton.
Janis wanting more control within the Knicks org. bring up another question or two. If Melo stayed(thank god he didn't) then what would his people be saying about Janis wanting control?? So going over Mills head to Dolan trying to get the control they wanted? Mills should have put his foot in a certain place and kick him out of his office. There had to be 'SIGNS' that said it a problem brewing here. Should have traded KP before the start of his 2nd year or before the trade deadline.
Frank progress is being stall be Perry. Perry is jealous of anything that Phil drafted. Perry doesn't know talent and is mad that Phil had Gaines to lend on for help. Perry and Mills kept Gaines around just long enough to help with drafting Knox and Robinson then start pounding own there chest talking how GREAT AND SMART we are. Then send Gaines packing. Back to Frank!! Perry and Mills didn't re-sign D.Rose to help with Frank development. They sign Jack and Rose sign the vet. minimum with Cleveland. Now who would you rather tutoring your young PG Jack a journeyman or former MVP PG? Perry chose JACK. Fiz then have Frank going to the corner on offense to shoot 3's. Knowing very well that isn't Frank strong suit. They(Perry and Fiz -Maybe Mills) have no intention of letting Frank succeed. Perry is a selfish and very small individual.....It in his eyes.
We have NO CHEMISTRY on this team. I have faith in DSJ and RJ. Dallas got rid of DSJ for a reason. RJ wasn't worth drafting at #3...he doesn't move the needle of success for this team. Now if KP was still here a #4 pick...he move the needle. None of these players makes us any better than last year. Should have kept Mudiay and not sign Payton.
When u mention the name Phil Jackson, people think championship winning head-coach.
Phil Jackson's many championship Titles has made him a NBA HOF head-coach. Phil dated the owner of the Lakers Jean Buss for years, and she only hired Phil to coach the Lakers nothing else.
Phil had little to none experience as a NBA GM, or being the president of an organization.
I believe .. the only reason Dolan hired Phil Jackson big NBA name were for Phil to get Melo to resign a $100M 4 yr contract.
James Dolan felt he invested a lot in Melo to keep ISO-Melo's high scoring in MSG for another 4 yrs. Dolan did not care bout Carmelo Anthony being a BIG cancer on the team.
Phil's coaching experience would have had a winning chance at rebuilding the Knicks in his first season if Phil never re-signed ISO-Melo.
The Knicks failed KP big during KP's first two seasons in the NBA, the rookie KP watch the Knicks Fire his first NBA head-coach in the mid-season.
Plus the Knicks has always had the poorest NBA programs for players entering the NBA. After two season and 3 head-coaches, plus 80% of KP rookie Knick roster were traded/cut/and change to 11 new teammates in his 2nd season to have a 30 win season under such a losing program. KP decided not to go nor to participate in the Knicks season end meeting. Could u Blame him ???
The Knicks FAILED KP .. KP did not fail on the Knicks. `
The Knicks program for young-core players are still the worst in the NBA .. having a 17 win season.
Phil Jackson's many championship Titles has made him a NBA HOF head-coach. Phil dated the owner of the Lakers Jean Buss for years, and she only hired Phil to coach the Lakers nothing else.
Phil had little to none experience as a NBA GM, or being the president of an organization.
I believe .. the only reason Dolan hired Phil Jackson big NBA name were for Phil to get Melo to resign a $100M 4 yr contract.
James Dolan felt he invested a lot in Melo to keep ISO-Melo's high scoring in MSG for another 4 yrs. Dolan did not care bout Carmelo Anthony being a BIG cancer on the team.
Phil's coaching experience would have had a winning chance at rebuilding the Knicks in his first season if Phil never re-signed ISO-Melo.
The Knicks failed KP big during KP's first two seasons in the NBA, the rookie KP watch the Knicks Fire his first NBA head-coach in the mid-season.
Plus the Knicks has always had the poorest NBA programs for players entering the NBA. After two season and 3 head-coaches, plus 80% of KP rookie Knick roster were traded/cut/and change to 11 new teammates in his 2nd season to have a 30 win season under such a losing program. KP decided not to go nor to participate in the Knicks season end meeting. Could u Blame him ???
The Knicks FAILED KP .. KP did not fail on the Knicks. `
The Knicks program for young-core players are still the worst in the NBA .. having a 17 win season.
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Mafra .... three of the players u mention above KP, Knox, and DSJ allow opponent to score easy within seven second or less, these players defense STINK! All 3 players needed to be in the NCAA for 4 years to define their defensive skills before entering the NBA.
All 3 players showed very poor defensive skills consistently as Knicks letting opponent grab 10 to 20 point leads while they were on the court.
KP never had a relationship with the Knicks, KP had a relationship with cancer-Melo.
And Frank's defensive skills has won more NBA games than DSJ.
KP's 3 yrs in the starting lineup receiving 30+ minute per game, averaging a 30 win season in 3 years should tell you KP was never a NBA starter, nor was KP performance good enough to receive above 24 minute per game.
In the KP trade the best player the Knicks receive from the trade was DJ .. swapping no defensive skill DSJ for no defensive skill Timmy was kind of equal in favor of Dallas.
Dark Raider
Starter
Not sure about the firing of his 1st head coach in the mid of the season. Jeff Hornack was his coach for 2 seasons.
The Dragon
Benchwarmer
Do you all think that we have to go all in this season with concentrating on RJ, Mitch and Knox? I think what hurt us the last season(s) is that we didn't play to win, we played to test players with crazy rotations.... stability is a key, and not for this team and this year, I think it is a key to be respectable franchise again..... stop the crazy rotations, keep testing for the training sessions!