Probably one of the worst games I?ve seen him play. Wasn?t aggressive from the little I saw of him in the first half, you would think that his back problem maybe lingering because he looked out of sorts, wasn?t attacking, looked slow and he?s small. Been watching KP and while he?s not having a super preseason, he is coming along after being out a season. This trade has the worst trade in Knicks history written all over it.
Game thread: New York Knicks vs Atlanta Hawks 7:30 10/16/2019 [Preseason Game #3]
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mafra
Legend
I think DSJ is odd man out.... If he cannot be a dynamic offensive force.... what good does he serve?
?Frank is a beast on defense,? forward Bobby Portis said. ?I never really saw Frank play much being on an opposing team, but being on his team, he?s a great teammate and does all the little things that?s not on the stat sheet, like getting over screens, diving on the floor for loose balls and things like that. Having guys committed to the team is really big with us.?
Payton will be a Fizdale fav bc of Perry and his toughness on defense....
I think RJ will actually be groomed to be our Ben Simmons type PG...
?He?s good. It gives a completely different dynamic to his game,? Randle said of Barrett?s decision-making. ?Teams will load up on him because they know he can score the ball. It?s also a learning experience because he?s gotta learn how to balance both [scoring and play-making].?
?He?s a play-maker. He?s just being himself,? Portis added. ?We?ve got that trust in RJ. He?s gonna be a big-time player in this league, and just having the ball in his hands at what? 19 years old? I think that?s big for him and he?s got a bright future ahead.?
?Frank is a beast on defense,? forward Bobby Portis said. ?I never really saw Frank play much being on an opposing team, but being on his team, he?s a great teammate and does all the little things that?s not on the stat sheet, like getting over screens, diving on the floor for loose balls and things like that. Having guys committed to the team is really big with us.?
Payton will be a Fizdale fav bc of Perry and his toughness on defense....
I think RJ will actually be groomed to be our Ben Simmons type PG...
?He?s good. It gives a completely different dynamic to his game,? Randle said of Barrett?s decision-making. ?Teams will load up on him because they know he can score the ball. It?s also a learning experience because he?s gotta learn how to balance both [scoring and play-making].?
?He?s a play-maker. He?s just being himself,? Portis added. ?We?ve got that trust in RJ. He?s gonna be a big-time player in this league, and just having the ball in his hands at what? 19 years old? I think that?s big for him and he?s got a bright future ahead.?
I been saying and Berman wrote after this game the Knicks may have no choice but to pick up his option to try to salvage that KP trade. Either way even if DSJ turns into a serviceable player, the Knicks lose in this trade head to head, there is no way DSJ is going to have the kind of impact a 7’3” player with the skills KP has.
Fiz ran RJ out at the point for some of the game, would he have the nerve to go with him opening night? Put Ellington in for his shooting along with RJ, anything has got to be better than the backcourt play we’ve been getting so far.
mafra
Legend
Hold the mic... Nothing wrecked the Knicks like what happened in the 1987 draft!
This followed the pathetic 1986-87 season.... HC Hubie Brown fired after a 4-12 start (Rick Pitino would be hired during the offseason)....
This was Ewing?s second season.... B-King had badly injured knee that 1984-85 season, missed all of PE?s rookie campaign and played in just 6 games in the 1986-87 season...
Knicks finished 24-58 that 1986-87 season.... It was a season of rebuilding.... NYK has zero chance. Remember BOS had an all-time great squad...
October 2, 1986
NYK traded Darrell Walker to the Denver Nuggets for a 1987 1st round draft pick. This pick turned out to the the 8th pick of the draft!
October 30, 1986
Knicks quickly flip the DEN pick they acquired at the beginning of the month and a 1988 2nd round draft pick to the Chicago Bulls for Jawann Oldham. (Bulls would walk away with Scottie Pippen with this pick).
November 12, 1986
Knicks dealt their 1987 1st round draft pick (and this pick turned out to be the 5th pick in the draft) and a 1990 2nd round draft pick to the Seattle SuperSonics for Gerald Henderson and a 1987 1st round draft pick (Mark Jackson was later selected).
Knicks ended up with 7 picks for this draft. People forgot what happened, bc we walked away with a franchise favorite in M-Jax.... Still....
To Recap:
The Knicks traded their original first round pick to SEA for Gerald Henderson (and, guess what, GH was a 76er at the start of the 1987-88 season).... so, NYK flipped what became the 5th pick to rent GH for barely 1 season of service....
The Knicks flipped Darrell Walker for a first round pick.... but turned around and dealt that pick for Jawann Oldham. Guess what, like GH, Mr. Oldham would be suiting up for Sac-town to start 1987-88 season.
Somehow, in a lost season where team wins 24 games.... Knicks turned the 5th and 8th picks into thin air.... getting nothing for the franchise beyond 1987.... why? Well, both players they brought in played only 1 season with the team!
Check out the 1987 draft!
We already had Ewing; we took Rod Strickland 19th the following draft (and POR took our man Anthony Mason, who would soon join Starks and Riley at MSG)... in 1988, we flipped Cartwright for Charles Oakley....
Guess who available at 5 & 8 in the 1987 NBA draft: Scottie Pippen and Reggie Miller.
Instead of having this lineup for the 1990s:
Strickland
Miller
Pippen
Oakley
Ewing
*** w/ Starks and Mason off the bench....
We ended up with with a titleless era of b-ball, where NY was cast as that other team playing the Harlem Globetrotters.... always the bridesmaid.
Ewing should be Jeter times Reggie times Messier times Simms/Eli in this town.... instead....
Well, our irresponsible bungling of those two picks accomplished 2 things: it robbed NY of greatest dynasty in NBA history.... and it armed the 2 teams that stood in our way that decade!
Imagine that suffocating defensive front court.... Miller raining 3s.... Rod from DePaul running the show, with gritty Mason and Starks off the bench. Led by Riley, who would still be our president... running the show.... attracting free agents and signing deals!
Sure, we had a nice ride.... but imagine where our franchise is now? How many titles? We definitely get LeBron, and that means we would?ve had a seamless transition from Ewing to LJ....
Here?s how the 1987 draft turned out for us instead:
June 22, 1987
Drafted Mark Jackson in the 1st round (18th pick) of the 1987 NBA Draft.
Drafted Ron Moore in the 2nd round (25th pick) of the 1987 NBA Draft.
Drafted Jerome Batiste in the 3rd round (49th pick) of the 1987 NBA Draft.
Drafted Mike Morgan in the 4th round (71st pick) of the 1987 NBA Draft.
Drafted Glenn Clem in the 5th round (95th pick) of the 1987 NBA Draft.
Drafted Howard Triche in the 6th round (117th pick) of the 1987 NBA Draft.
Drafted Wayne Williams in the 7th round (141st pick) of the 1987 NBA Draft.
Knicks Should?ve had the 5th and 8th selections.... That draft should be a holiday for us.... instead...
But, yes, if Kp is a perennial all star and DSJ not here next year.... oh no!
Saving grace is look who DEN took with the last pick the ducked out of Walsh - Dolan in that Carmelo deal: Murray is a stud PG! Maybe those picks from DAL offer some redemption.... I doubt it tho.
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mafra
Legend
Ian Begley, SNY.tv | Twitter |
Wednesday's game didn't provide much clarity in the Knicks' starting point guard competition.
Dennis Smith Jr. was out of rhythm in his preseason debut, shooting 1-for-5 in 20 minutes. Elfrid Payton was a DNP, by design. And Frank Ntilikina defended well but didn't provide the offensive spark that David Fizdale said he's looking for in his starting point guard.
Let's start with Smith Jr. He felt some rust after playing for the first time in roughly 10 days due to a back ailment.
"No rhythm at all. But he's got to play through that stuff," Fizdale said afterward. "He had to get out there and go through it to start shaking it off."
Smith Jr. said his back was a non-issue against Atlanta, but his conditioning and timing felt off.
"That's why I think it's important for me to play these last two presaeason games and start building for the regular season when it really counts," he said.
Smith Jr.'s competing against Ntilikina and Payton for the Knicks' starting point guard role. The general feeling throughout camp has been that the starting point guard on opening night would be either Payton or Smith Jr., who was acquired in the Kristaps Porzingis trade last January.
Payton, who signed with the Knicks in free agency this summer, didn't play against Atlanta because Fizdale wanted to see more of Smith Jr. and Ntilikina.
Ntilikina had a few standout defensive moments in the fourth quarter, particularly when defending Trae Young. He finished with three assists, two blocks and two points in 21 minutes.
Fizdale has said that, ideally, his starting point guard will be a threat to score. While Ntilikina has improved his shot and seems more assertive, the points haven't come in the preseason.
It will be interesting to see how Fizdale and the Knicks value Ntilikina's defense compared the desire to have an offensive threat at point guard.
This is how Fizdale assessed Ntilikina on Wednesday: "Competition. I just really thought he battled. He organized us. He ran the team. He stayed aggressive. He got a timely rebound down the stretch to give us another chance. He's had a solid training camp."
Wednesday's game didn't provide much clarity in the Knicks' starting point guard competition.
Dennis Smith Jr. was out of rhythm in his preseason debut, shooting 1-for-5 in 20 minutes. Elfrid Payton was a DNP, by design. And Frank Ntilikina defended well but didn't provide the offensive spark that David Fizdale said he's looking for in his starting point guard.
Let's start with Smith Jr. He felt some rust after playing for the first time in roughly 10 days due to a back ailment.
"No rhythm at all. But he's got to play through that stuff," Fizdale said afterward. "He had to get out there and go through it to start shaking it off."
Smith Jr. said his back was a non-issue against Atlanta, but his conditioning and timing felt off.
"That's why I think it's important for me to play these last two presaeason games and start building for the regular season when it really counts," he said.
Smith Jr.'s competing against Ntilikina and Payton for the Knicks' starting point guard role. The general feeling throughout camp has been that the starting point guard on opening night would be either Payton or Smith Jr., who was acquired in the Kristaps Porzingis trade last January.
Payton, who signed with the Knicks in free agency this summer, didn't play against Atlanta because Fizdale wanted to see more of Smith Jr. and Ntilikina.
Ntilikina had a few standout defensive moments in the fourth quarter, particularly when defending Trae Young. He finished with three assists, two blocks and two points in 21 minutes.
Fizdale has said that, ideally, his starting point guard will be a threat to score. While Ntilikina has improved his shot and seems more assertive, the points haven't come in the preseason.
It will be interesting to see how Fizdale and the Knicks value Ntilikina's defense compared the desire to have an offensive threat at point guard.
This is how Fizdale assessed Ntilikina on Wednesday: "Competition. I just really thought he battled. He organized us. He ran the team. He stayed aggressive. He got a timely rebound down the stretch to give us another chance. He's had a solid training camp."
Dark Raider
Starter
Watch the game last night.
As for that experiment with RJ at the PG... FORGET!! I don't know what everybody so but the must have miss this. The Hawk's trapped RJ and he had problem getting the ball into the offensive. He isn't a true PG by any stretch of the imagination. He isn't a pure ball-handler. ATL was waiting for this and showed what other teams are going to do if Fiz think it going to work. Hawk's trapped RJ before he crossed 1/2 court and other time after he cross 1/2 court. Both time he didn't recognize the trap or players came to give him for a pass.
Outside of that I think Frank played VERY WELL for a player to score just 2 point. QUESTION: Has anybody notice there are no offense plays for Frank. It always Frank running the offense plays for someone else. The ball goes to someone and never ever comes back out to RESET.
As for that experiment with RJ at the PG... FORGET!! I don't know what everybody so but the must have miss this. The Hawk's trapped RJ and he had problem getting the ball into the offensive. He isn't a true PG by any stretch of the imagination. He isn't a pure ball-handler. ATL was waiting for this and showed what other teams are going to do if Fiz think it going to work. Hawk's trapped RJ before he crossed 1/2 court and other time after he cross 1/2 court. Both time he didn't recognize the trap or players came to give him for a pass.
Outside of that I think Frank played VERY WELL for a player to score just 2 point. QUESTION: Has anybody notice there are no offense plays for Frank. It always Frank running the offense plays for someone else. The ball goes to someone and never ever comes back out to RESET.
I have to agree on Fizdale .. his one game experiments are not working when the Knick players are looking for ball movement and touches on at least half the time on the offensive-end. Plus player/coach Vince Carter Team-leadership out-witted Fizdales ISO-system on both sides of the court .. I wanted to cry watching 2nd season Trae Young do all the things i expected to see DSJ do to out-smart opponents in his first outing in preseason.
It doesn't look like Fizdale's (17 win season) type of coaching change any in the 3 preseason games i watched !!! bad bad bad
That's the front-office fault .. last season at the start of March the Knicks record were 13-50 having the poorest Iso-system in the history of the NBA. The Knick $$$ front-office should have had 2 or 3 unemployed NBA head-coaches ready to sign on to the Knicks coaching-staff in June to coach the Knicks summer league team, and prepare a few team offensive-defensive plays for the nine new players for the upcoming season.
Rookie RJ Barrett's multi-position performance look to be the best player for the 6th Man role for the next two seasons.
Our roster is an endless string of landmines for Fizdale. Portis vs MRob? Ntilikina vs DSJ vs Payton? No room in the rotation for Trier and/or Dotson and/or Brazdeikis? Etc.
If we struggle out of the gates, it?s going to be very hard for Fizdale to control the locker room.
He’s setting up for a disappointing start of the season with his comment that it’s going to take time for all the new guys to gel and come together as a team.
PG play is going to be the key, you’re not winning many games with the production we’ve gotten out of the position.
DSJ looked like crap on both ends, an off night shooting is one thing but the guy looked like he wasn’t even trying to play defense. He’ll get plenty of playing time today, he better deliver.
mafra
Legend
an Begley, SNY.tv | Twitter |
Frank Ntilikina will likely sit out of Friday's preseason finale on Friday so the Knicks can see more of Elfrid Payton and Dennis Smith Jr. at point guard.
"Frank has played three (games), Elfrid has played two, Dennis is now going to play two, so I feel like I'm getting them all (playing time)," David Fizdale said Thursday. "? I feel like I gave all three guys ample opportunity to show what he can do."
Fizdale is choosing among Ntilikina, Payton and Smith Jr. for his starting point guard. Smith Jr. missed about ten days with a back ailment during preseason and looked rusty during his preseason debut Wednesday. He should get plenty of minutes on Friday against New Orleans.
"His body seems to be doing OK," Fizdale said. "He had a really good practice."
Fizdale cautioned not too overvalue his starting lineup on opening night. He will tweak minutes and roles based on performance.
"(Lineups) are not set in stone just because we're getting out of preseason," the coach said. "That thing can always be a revolving door because these guys are so competitive. From one week to the next, it can be a different guy. And I want them to stay on edge like that."
Particularly in the backcourt and wing positions, Fizdale has plenty of options. He's been starting RJ Barrett at shooting guard ahead of Wayne Ellington, Allonzo Trier and Damyean Dotson. (Trier didn't play on Wednesday but will play with the second unit on Friday).
At small forward/wing, Fizdale has started Marcus Morris ahead of Kevin Knox II.
No matter who he plays on a given night, there will be several players left out of the rotation who came into the season expecting to play. So it shouldn't be a surprise that, per SNY sources, there has already been some grumbling about minutes/roles.
Players not being thrilled about their minutes/roles is pretty common in the NBA. All coaches/teams deal with it to a certain degree. But the idea that the Knicks have so many players who - from the outside at least - can make a case for a spot in the rotation makes this something to keep an eye on.
Frank Ntilikina will likely sit out of Friday's preseason finale on Friday so the Knicks can see more of Elfrid Payton and Dennis Smith Jr. at point guard.
"Frank has played three (games), Elfrid has played two, Dennis is now going to play two, so I feel like I'm getting them all (playing time)," David Fizdale said Thursday. "? I feel like I gave all three guys ample opportunity to show what he can do."
Fizdale is choosing among Ntilikina, Payton and Smith Jr. for his starting point guard. Smith Jr. missed about ten days with a back ailment during preseason and looked rusty during his preseason debut Wednesday. He should get plenty of minutes on Friday against New Orleans.
"His body seems to be doing OK," Fizdale said. "He had a really good practice."
Fizdale cautioned not too overvalue his starting lineup on opening night. He will tweak minutes and roles based on performance.
"(Lineups) are not set in stone just because we're getting out of preseason," the coach said. "That thing can always be a revolving door because these guys are so competitive. From one week to the next, it can be a different guy. And I want them to stay on edge like that."
Particularly in the backcourt and wing positions, Fizdale has plenty of options. He's been starting RJ Barrett at shooting guard ahead of Wayne Ellington, Allonzo Trier and Damyean Dotson. (Trier didn't play on Wednesday but will play with the second unit on Friday).
At small forward/wing, Fizdale has started Marcus Morris ahead of Kevin Knox II.
No matter who he plays on a given night, there will be several players left out of the rotation who came into the season expecting to play. So it shouldn't be a surprise that, per SNY sources, there has already been some grumbling about minutes/roles.
Players not being thrilled about their minutes/roles is pretty common in the NBA. All coaches/teams deal with it to a certain degree. But the idea that the Knicks have so many players who - from the outside at least - can make a case for a spot in the rotation makes this something to keep an eye on.
Fizdale cautioned not too overvalue his starting lineup on opening night. He will tweak minutes and roles based on performance.
Sounds like Fizdale telling us we aren't that good so expect us to start slow. DSJ Nits and Payton the worst shooting PG trio in the NBA, going to be a long season.
Sounds like Fizdale telling us we aren't that good so expect us to start slow. DSJ Nits and Payton the worst shooting PG trio in the NBA, going to be a long season.