Game thread: New York Knicks vs Cleveland Cavaliers 7:30 11/10/2019 [Game #10]
- Thread starter rady
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mafra
Legend
Look at Det, Sac, CLE games.... Knicks seem to only care when they are playing a perceived good team. This is an indictment on the players.... they act like they don?t need to show up and effort or try against inferior teams... as if it?s beneath them.
A true disgrace and why I won?t watch another minute if this team this year until the win their 20th game.
A true disgrace and why I won?t watch another minute if this team this year until the win their 20th game.
mafra
Legend
?The Cavs ran away with this one early, stomping a 31-19 first-quarter mudhole in the Knicks. The offense was a mess, essentially handing the ball to the Cavs on several occasions with botched dribble hand-offs. Cleveland has undoubtedly the worst defensive backcourt in the league, so how did the Knicks attack? You guessed it: with a bunch of Julius Randle post-ups, spineroos, and flippity-farts. When Randle grew tired of sucking, Bobby Portis was called off the bench to continue his work.
The Knicks ? supposedly a professional basketball outfit ? managed just 36 points at the half. In the year of our Lord 2019.?
The Knicks ? supposedly a professional basketball outfit ? managed just 36 points at the half. In the year of our Lord 2019.?
mafra
Legend
Cavs sank 28 of 31 attempts (90.3 percent). The Knicks, meanwhile, shot 64.4 percent on a 16-of-25 mark in that same department.
In 10 games, NYK already have 4 games where they missed 10 or more FTs... tonight they missed 9.
It?s simple, really. Protect the ball, play defense, hit your FTs and please... try, be determined, disciplined and focused.
If we don?t do all of this, we will lose bc we have worst roster in NBA. Sure, there will be games every now and then where we be raining 3s... but we can?t win missing 9 FTs and bricking 22 threes.
In 10 games, NYK already have 4 games where they missed 10 or more FTs... tonight they missed 9.
It?s simple, really. Protect the ball, play defense, hit your FTs and please... try, be determined, disciplined and focused.
If we don?t do all of this, we will lose bc we have worst roster in NBA. Sure, there will be games every now and then where we be raining 3s... but we can?t win missing 9 FTs and bricking 22 threes.
mafra
Legend
After the latest embarrassing loss for the Knicks, it was time for David Fizdale?s postgame press conference.
In walked Steve Mills and Scott Perry.
The Knicks president and general manager were not there to announce any firings, but instead impressed a sense of urgency to turn things around after a 2-8 start to the season.
?We still believe in our coaching staff,? Mills said Sunday after the 108-87 loss to the Cavaliers at the Garden. ?We?re not happy where we are right now.?
The Knicks were coming off a big win over the Mavericks on Friday night but did not carry over the momentum at all.
?I think it?s the lack of consistency,? Perry said. ?We gotta be consistent in all areas.?
In walked Steve Mills and Scott Perry.
The Knicks president and general manager were not there to announce any firings, but instead impressed a sense of urgency to turn things around after a 2-8 start to the season.
?We still believe in our coaching staff,? Mills said Sunday after the 108-87 loss to the Cavaliers at the Garden. ?We?re not happy where we are right now.?
The Knicks were coming off a big win over the Mavericks on Friday night but did not carry over the momentum at all.
?I think it?s the lack of consistency,? Perry said. ?We gotta be consistent in all areas.?
mafra
Legend
Dolan, Mills, and Perry left their seats at halftime and never returned.
Mills and Perry sold Dolan a KD/KI dream, so much so that Dolan went on air and announced that good things were coming in free agency.
Now, the team is 2-8... KP is returning to his unicorn form, and we got nothing for him except picks in 2021 & 2023... We are dead last in most offensive categories.... Perry and Mills spent 70 mil this year on barely average replacement level players.... the young guys not developing....
Dolan has blown up things for lesser reasons.... he obviously sent them to presser to get their medicine.... this tells me he?ll be firing everybody come Feb, when team is 8-42.
Mills and Perry sold Dolan a KD/KI dream, so much so that Dolan went on air and announced that good things were coming in free agency.
Now, the team is 2-8... KP is returning to his unicorn form, and we got nothing for him except picks in 2021 & 2023... We are dead last in most offensive categories.... Perry and Mills spent 70 mil this year on barely average replacement level players.... the young guys not developing....
Dolan has blown up things for lesser reasons.... he obviously sent them to presser to get their medicine.... this tells me he?ll be firing everybody come Feb, when team is 8-42.
mafra
Legend
CLE rag laughing at Knicks... this was Cavs 11th straight win at MSG... I guess that didn?t motivate this team to show up today. Well, they all probably partied hard Sat night and basked in their DAL glory...
Heck, even Garland is showing up RJ now...
?Scouting. Player development. Culture. Coaching. Front office decision-making. It all matters.
The Cavs won their second straight game Sunday night, crushing the Knicks 108-87 at famed Madison Square Garden. It?s 11 straight victories for Cleveland at MSG, the longest streak ever recorded by a visiting team. In the process, the Cavs also showed that their renaissance appears much closer than New York?s.
Two draft picks serve as a prime example.
In 2018, after some deliberation, the Cavs? scouting department chose point guard Collin Sexton over swingman Kevin Knox, who went one pick later to the Knicks at No. 9. Sexton still remembers Knox as the player who received an invite to the Rising Stars Challenge instead of him. Sexton used it as fuel during a second-half flurry to finish fifth in Rookie of the Year voting. He?s shown no signs of slowing down in his sophomore season.
Knox, on the other hand, was statistically the NBA?s worst player last year and is off to a rough start.
Every youngster evolves at a different rate. But Sexton seems to have lapped his draft classmate, with Sunday night providing new evidence.
Neither Cleveland nor New York won the Williamson sweepstakes a few months back. The New Orleans Pelicans flew up the draft board, snagging the exciting high-flyer from Duke whose rookie campaign has been sabotaged because of a knee injury. The Knicks landed at No. 3, picking Williamson?s Blue Devil teammate, RJ Barrett.
The teenager has enjoyed bright moments this season, looking like a key piece of the Knicks? future. Sunday night was not one of them. Barrett, plagued by foul trouble, tallied just nine points on 4-of-11 from the field.
Cavs rookie guard Darius Garland followed up his breakout game against Washington with another solid all-around game. He reached double-digits in scoring for the second game in a row. He also dished out a team-best six assists, tying his career-best mark set Friday.
It was only one game between the two top-5 picks. There?s another coming next week. And more after that. It?s too early to make any call either way. For the season, both Garland and Barrett are averaging at least 8.0 points and 3.0 assists -- two of the three rooks with those marks. No. 2 overall pick Ja Morant of the Grizzlies is the other.
The other layer to the plan, putting veterans around the young core to provide stability and guidance, points the Cavs? direction as well. The Knicks went all-in on free agency, creating massive cap space to lure the likes of Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. Instead, they were forced to hand out bloated contracts to other teams? rejects -- Bobby Portis, Julius Randle, Taj Gibson, Marcus Morris Sr. and Wayne Ellington.
The Cavs have been anchored by Tristan Thompson and Kevin Love, two champions who have set the tone on and off the floor each day. Jordan Clarkson and Matthew Dellavedova are key contributors for the second unit. Cleveland continues to wait on John Henson to get healthy again.
Being better than the woeful, directionless Knicks is not the goal. But these two teams, for a variety of different reasons, were essentially side by side last season. Look at them now. Which team seems better positioned moving forward? The final score Sunday night wasn?t even necessary to answer that question.
The Knicks were booed off their home floor. Those Bronx cheers started at the 6:48 mark of the third quarter when the Cavs? lead ballooned to 26 points.
The boos continued into the fourth quarter while the final seconds were ticking away. Well, from the fans who stuck around until the end, anyway.
Heck, even Garland is showing up RJ now...
?Scouting. Player development. Culture. Coaching. Front office decision-making. It all matters.
The Cavs won their second straight game Sunday night, crushing the Knicks 108-87 at famed Madison Square Garden. It?s 11 straight victories for Cleveland at MSG, the longest streak ever recorded by a visiting team. In the process, the Cavs also showed that their renaissance appears much closer than New York?s.
Two draft picks serve as a prime example.
In 2018, after some deliberation, the Cavs? scouting department chose point guard Collin Sexton over swingman Kevin Knox, who went one pick later to the Knicks at No. 9. Sexton still remembers Knox as the player who received an invite to the Rising Stars Challenge instead of him. Sexton used it as fuel during a second-half flurry to finish fifth in Rookie of the Year voting. He?s shown no signs of slowing down in his sophomore season.
Knox, on the other hand, was statistically the NBA?s worst player last year and is off to a rough start.
Every youngster evolves at a different rate. But Sexton seems to have lapped his draft classmate, with Sunday night providing new evidence.
Neither Cleveland nor New York won the Williamson sweepstakes a few months back. The New Orleans Pelicans flew up the draft board, snagging the exciting high-flyer from Duke whose rookie campaign has been sabotaged because of a knee injury. The Knicks landed at No. 3, picking Williamson?s Blue Devil teammate, RJ Barrett.
The teenager has enjoyed bright moments this season, looking like a key piece of the Knicks? future. Sunday night was not one of them. Barrett, plagued by foul trouble, tallied just nine points on 4-of-11 from the field.
Cavs rookie guard Darius Garland followed up his breakout game against Washington with another solid all-around game. He reached double-digits in scoring for the second game in a row. He also dished out a team-best six assists, tying his career-best mark set Friday.
It was only one game between the two top-5 picks. There?s another coming next week. And more after that. It?s too early to make any call either way. For the season, both Garland and Barrett are averaging at least 8.0 points and 3.0 assists -- two of the three rooks with those marks. No. 2 overall pick Ja Morant of the Grizzlies is the other.
The other layer to the plan, putting veterans around the young core to provide stability and guidance, points the Cavs? direction as well. The Knicks went all-in on free agency, creating massive cap space to lure the likes of Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. Instead, they were forced to hand out bloated contracts to other teams? rejects -- Bobby Portis, Julius Randle, Taj Gibson, Marcus Morris Sr. and Wayne Ellington.
The Cavs have been anchored by Tristan Thompson and Kevin Love, two champions who have set the tone on and off the floor each day. Jordan Clarkson and Matthew Dellavedova are key contributors for the second unit. Cleveland continues to wait on John Henson to get healthy again.
Being better than the woeful, directionless Knicks is not the goal. But these two teams, for a variety of different reasons, were essentially side by side last season. Look at them now. Which team seems better positioned moving forward? The final score Sunday night wasn?t even necessary to answer that question.
The Knicks were booed off their home floor. Those Bronx cheers started at the 6:48 mark of the third quarter when the Cavs? lead ballooned to 26 points.
The boos continued into the fourth quarter while the final seconds were ticking away. Well, from the fans who stuck around until the end, anyway.
Well .. this Knicks Game tells me that there is no identity! The coaching staff is not doing what is needed to get this team ready to play HARD every Game. The Knicks as a team had no knowledge (scouting-report) of their low level opponents or how to defend them.
Tonight we watched a 48 minute Stand-Still offense of isolation B.ball from the Knicks .....
I kept asking myself why do Morris and Randle bring the ball up so often instead of Frank?
In the first quarter when Morris and Randle and RJ start doing ISO ball the game was over.
Their results ended in a ton of turnovers and brutal possessions
At the end of the day .. Fizdale's all ISO ball and a very poor one on one defense coach !!!
Tonight we watched a 48 minute Stand-Still offense of isolation B.ball from the Knicks .....
I kept asking myself why do Morris and Randle bring the ball up so often instead of Frank?
In the first quarter when Morris and Randle and RJ start doing ISO ball the game was over.
Their results ended in a ton of turnovers and brutal possessions
At the end of the day .. Fizdale's all ISO ball and a very poor one on one defense coach !!!
Bro I've been saying this exact line for almost 10yrs to Knick fans. Every yr our fans think our youth is so much better than everyone else's only in an alternate universe or in a world of alternative facts
Frank still Stinks guys, yes he played other worldly the other night but thought nothing different about his overall talent. He's marginal and I still hope we trade him
I think the game against the Mavs had a lot to do with the trade and we were away from home. It's like the team decided they weren't going to get embarrassed there but came right back home and made sure they would
Remember I told you guys drafting Knox over Bridges was nothing to be giddy over and that he probably wasn't better than him. He's downright awful to be a Lottery Pick
We got WAXED by the Mighty Cavs on our floor and Sexton did whatever he wanted tonight. This is what a lottery pick point guard that you can build with looks like...not Stank Frank
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A rare occurrence for an NBA team for its 2 principal front office executives to make a public appearance to effectively lay down a warning to Fizdale that his days are numbered unless the team turns their season around.
Pretty sure Dolan heard the boo birds and probably even said to himself this team is awful, I wouldn't pay 600 bucks for a seat close to the floor to watch these bums. I need to send in my team to say we're not happy and we'll take action to have a better product for the paying fans.
I believe Greg Anthony's take...he said he believes Dolan spoke to Mills and Perry expressing his deep disappointment in this team which is what prompted the impromptu post-game presser
I agree with the thought of wanting to acknowledge the disappointment in this team but not sure this was the appropriate way to do it. Seems like they were trying to place the bullseye on everyone but themselves by going public
Wasn't Dolan high fiving guys in the tunnel after the Mavs win or was I seeing things
I agree with the thought of wanting to acknowledge the disappointment in this team but not sure this was the appropriate way to do it. Seems like they were trying to place the bullseye on everyone but themselves by going public
Wasn't Dolan high fiving guys in the tunnel after the Mavs win or was I seeing things
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I didn't hear Greg Anthony's comments but I just posted that I thought it was Dolan that ordered Mills and Perry to make an appearance. Only guy that can fire Mills and Perry is Dolan but now that he's taken notice I think he'll be open to cleaning house if what is looking to me to be a 6-22 team by the Dec 15 trade deadline to trade free agents.
mafra
Legend
Based on 20 years of Dolan?s ownership, to me it?s crystal clear what happened.
1) Dolan irked Perry and Mills led him to believe we were going to be serious players in free agency. They failed and that was when their honeymoon period ended. Dolan made to look foolish going on Michael Kay show bleating about what?s to come in July. Oh, and we traded away our only decent asset just a o clear up cap space, for free agents who didn?t materialize.
Oh, and isn?t it great we are now that bottom feeder who can?t keep their star. It?s hard enough to find a gem in the lottery, and when we do... it?s only for 4 years bc that star is going to run out of town as fast as he can. Great!
2) Mills and Perry put out that fire quickly n July.... and said free agency a crapshoot.... the KD injury altered everything.... but the plan is, as it always was, to build a strong foundation.... let?s sign vets and continue to groom our guys.
3) Team is 2-8. Booed all 4 home games for pathetic players (1-3). This after they lost 18 straight at the garden. Jets and Giants both suck and played each other today. GM meetings begin Monday. Lots of NFL and MLB hot stove talk on Monday.... Dolan wants to play media.
4) Dolan fed up with Mills and Perry and now isn?t buying what they are selling him. It?s punishment time. Send them to act like clowns and take their medicine. Get out ahead of this media talk.... media satisfied now and will spend their energy talking Jets, Giants, Yankees.
The company line is to be competitive and playing meaningful games come late March. Be in mix to battle for 8th seed.
Dolan told Mills and Perry that another 20 win season not acceptable. Probably told them they and Fiz will be fired if nothing changes. Nothing will change. So hopefully Dolan accidentally falls into a good hire with his next GM search.
But, good news is, Mills/Perry/Fiz all officially on notice. If all let go today, not 1 NBA team would consider these bums for their current job title.
1) Dolan irked Perry and Mills led him to believe we were going to be serious players in free agency. They failed and that was when their honeymoon period ended. Dolan made to look foolish going on Michael Kay show bleating about what?s to come in July. Oh, and we traded away our only decent asset just a o clear up cap space, for free agents who didn?t materialize.
Oh, and isn?t it great we are now that bottom feeder who can?t keep their star. It?s hard enough to find a gem in the lottery, and when we do... it?s only for 4 years bc that star is going to run out of town as fast as he can. Great!
2) Mills and Perry put out that fire quickly n July.... and said free agency a crapshoot.... the KD injury altered everything.... but the plan is, as it always was, to build a strong foundation.... let?s sign vets and continue to groom our guys.
3) Team is 2-8. Booed all 4 home games for pathetic players (1-3). This after they lost 18 straight at the garden. Jets and Giants both suck and played each other today. GM meetings begin Monday. Lots of NFL and MLB hot stove talk on Monday.... Dolan wants to play media.
4) Dolan fed up with Mills and Perry and now isn?t buying what they are selling him. It?s punishment time. Send them to act like clowns and take their medicine. Get out ahead of this media talk.... media satisfied now and will spend their energy talking Jets, Giants, Yankees.
The company line is to be competitive and playing meaningful games come late March. Be in mix to battle for 8th seed.
Dolan told Mills and Perry that another 20 win season not acceptable. Probably told them they and Fiz will be fired if nothing changes. Nothing will change. So hopefully Dolan accidentally falls into a good hire with his next GM search.
But, good news is, Mills/Perry/Fiz all officially on notice. If all let go today, not 1 NBA team would consider these bums for their current job title.
I get a feeling Dolan knows days are numbered of just taking fans for granted they'll show up to the Garden no matter what while the cost is Sky High. The average ticket price to MSG is $190.00(possibly higher this season)
https://www.barrystickets.com/blog/nba-ticket-prices/
This is asinine and no way knowledgable fans would keep showing up at this premium for this product. Only dummies would do this unless their entire mission is to attend to booooo, cuhz rest assured this team is going to give every reason to do so, and even still one has to ask "at what cost?"
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Maf you're on a roll tonight..couldn't agree more and to take it a step further there are few trades we can make to get good value. I don't think there will be teams beating down our doors for our players at this rate
mafra
Legend
It?s clear Dolan told Mills and Perry to fix this mess now or else they?ll be fired by the halfway point.
We all know it won?t work with this triumvirate. It only compounds the problem to wait.... Our youth still young enough that something might be salvageable.... so act quickly!
What sort of moves do you see?
I would trade everybody if I could... what sort of moves could we make?
I would hire a guy that wants to build around RJ and MRob, and tell him he has this season and next to determine if Dotson, Trier, Knox, DSJ, Frank have any value for us down the road (and would trade them if an offer surfaced).
I would then take back a few bad contracts for picks and assets.
By dealing KP, we are basically in Year 1 of rebuild anyway... these take 3-5 years. So, nothing good is happening here until 2023 maybe.
mafra
Legend
Bondy:
Mills harped on consistency and effort, which falls on Fizdale but doesn?t address his head-scratching roster composition. Mills supported Fizdale to a point. He said the same things about Jeff Hornacek before firing him after the 2017-18 season. As Knicks president or GM, Mills has presided over five head coaches.
Mills harped on consistency and effort, which falls on Fizdale but doesn?t address his head-scratching roster composition. Mills supported Fizdale to a point. He said the same things about Jeff Hornacek before firing him after the 2017-18 season. As Knicks president or GM, Mills has presided over five head coaches.
mafra
Legend
After a 21-point blowout loss to the Cleveland Cavaliers on Sunday at home, New York Knicks president Steve Mills and general manager Scott Perry addressed the media to express their displeasure with the team's struggles.
"We're not happy with where we are," Mills said. "This is not where we expected to be at this point -- 10 games in."
Sunday's loss dropped the Knicks to 2-8 on the season. It was their third loss by at least 20 points in the past four games and the second at Madison Square Garden in that span.
The Cavs opened the second half on an 18-6 run and led the Knicks by as many as 30 in the third quarter. After a fast-break layup by Collin Sexton with under seven minutes left in the quarter, fans booed the Knicks.
Perry said the team has lacked consistency in its effort.
"I think the lack of consistency, that for the most part we've seen it, but you see sporadic efforts, too," Perry said. "That's what we talked about as we sat during this game and one of the reasons we wanted to come out and address you guys. Because we got to be consistent in all areas of the game, starting with the effort."
Despite the struggles, Mills said the front office still believes in coach David Fizdale.
"We have patience, and we believe in Coach," Mills said. "And we believe in the group that we put together, but we also know that, as Scott and I both have said a number of times, we need to find a way to have a consistent level of effort and execution."
"Got to own that our home consistency is not there," Fizdale said after the game. "I take full responsibility for that."
The Knicks didn't necessarily have playoff expectations this season after whiffing on landing a big free agent in the offseason, but they were expected to be more competitive than last season's league-worst 17-65 team. So far, that hasn't been the case.
"We're not here focused on the record," Mills said. "We're focused on improvement and delivering a consistent effort because we believe that if this team plays with the kind of effort that they played against Dallas that we'll win basketball games."
ESPN
"We're not happy with where we are," Mills said. "This is not where we expected to be at this point -- 10 games in."
Sunday's loss dropped the Knicks to 2-8 on the season. It was their third loss by at least 20 points in the past four games and the second at Madison Square Garden in that span.
The Cavs opened the second half on an 18-6 run and led the Knicks by as many as 30 in the third quarter. After a fast-break layup by Collin Sexton with under seven minutes left in the quarter, fans booed the Knicks.
Perry said the team has lacked consistency in its effort.
"I think the lack of consistency, that for the most part we've seen it, but you see sporadic efforts, too," Perry said. "That's what we talked about as we sat during this game and one of the reasons we wanted to come out and address you guys. Because we got to be consistent in all areas of the game, starting with the effort."
Despite the struggles, Mills said the front office still believes in coach David Fizdale.
"We have patience, and we believe in Coach," Mills said. "And we believe in the group that we put together, but we also know that, as Scott and I both have said a number of times, we need to find a way to have a consistent level of effort and execution."
"Got to own that our home consistency is not there," Fizdale said after the game. "I take full responsibility for that."
The Knicks didn't necessarily have playoff expectations this season after whiffing on landing a big free agent in the offseason, but they were expected to be more competitive than last season's league-worst 17-65 team. So far, that hasn't been the case.
"We're not here focused on the record," Mills said. "We're focused on improvement and delivering a consistent effort because we believe that if this team plays with the kind of effort that they played against Dallas that we'll win basketball games."
ESPN
The Dragon
Benchwarmer
for the past years in all our games, you don't see the players playing with heart, they don't play as if this is their team, they all play as if they are mercenaries who have a year or two and they are gone. we all saw glimpses of the power of the team when they play with heart, and most of them are very good, and have high potential, the question is, why they don't play hard or they play as if they don't care? before few games Clyde said during the game that teams are not affraid to come to MSG anymore, which is true, instead they come here to have a field day. MSG is not feared because nobody is defending it, Knicks is not a good team cause nobody is playing their heart out for it......
do players feel that they don't belong? if you feel that you are really part of a team you defend it, you do your best...... do anybody feel that our players are doing their best?
we can say the coach, we can say Dolan, we can say front office, we can say Melo.....etc. but we changed all that and dolan is not involved at all but we are still the same, players do not care........
do players feel that they don't belong? if you feel that you are really part of a team you defend it, you do your best...... do anybody feel that our players are doing their best?
we can say the coach, we can say Dolan, we can say front office, we can say Melo.....etc. but we changed all that and dolan is not involved at all but we are still the same, players do not care........