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  1. #1
    Member Dark Raider's Avatar
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    Default L. Rose or D. Rose?

    As for the title I would prefer Derrick Rose over Leon Rose. Not as President but on the Knicks.

    Big Question: Who is the BB person in this new Front Office? BTW the first thing I would have done my first day would have been to fire Scott Perry and his whole staff and scouts. Moving right along!!

    For the new President of the Knicks I'm not on board just yet. There are somethings that bother me about his hiring. One is he knowledgeable of BB? That is a short statement but very powerful because of what it mean to Knicks fan base. This is a big concern and the article in the NY Post didn't do anything to relive me of that concern. https://nypost.com/2020/03/04/leon-roses-knicks-preparation-includes-long-chat-with-warriors-bob-myers/

    One that stood out was Myers saying he did a year of assistant GM which really help him to prepare for the GM job. Rose doesn't have that in his resume' if I'm not mistaken. Myers also mention being on UCLA coaching staff that help with scouting and evaluating talent. I heard that Rose was a high school & college coach for two or three years. It didn't say what schools.

    To me it a BIG DIFFERENT in being President of a NBA team and being a player agent. Being an agent you are trying to sign players and then
    get them a good contract. Knowing talent isn't a Major quality that is needed. On the other hand being a NBA President you have to know talent especially when it comes to the draft. Some might say well that is what you have scouts for and you take there suggestions and decide who to pick. In the Knicks case or Rose case he doesn't have Ben Jobe or C. Gaines to get valuable info. For those of you that don't know who Ben Jobe he was a scout in the organization for years and pass a few years back.

    Will the new President select a GM that is a good BB man? Then turn over the day to day working of getting new scouts and preparing for the draft?

    Most believe that Rose 1st day as President was GREAT because the Knicks won the game. Well, that fight with Spike Lee is going to be trouble for him and the Knicks. If you remember the hiring of the agency to make us 'cool'(whatever in the hell that means in BB world). What are all of this year F.A. going to think? Any chance of signing one now? This could be the straw that breaks the camel back with the league and force Dolan to sell like they did Sterling(Clippers). If that happen will the new owner keep Rose and his new FO?

    I need to see some BB knowledge from Rose or the hiring of a real BB person. Not firing Perry day 1 is troubling!!!

    Last edited by Dark Raider; Mar 05, 2020 at 17:19.

  2. #2
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    Well my worst fear has come true with Scott Perry not being fired and running the draft. As I mention with the start of this thread those were signs that we are in trouble. Rose is being on Brock Aller as a Cap Specialist but has no BB Knowledge when it comes to talent. Look for a screw-up with Perry running it. The last two draft of 2018- when he should have trade back with Clippers for their two 1st round picks(not taking C. Gaines advice)..... 2019 when you tank in the wrong year plus not trading back to address a need at PF.

    I can only hope for fate to extend us some mercy.
    Last edited by Dark Raider; Apr 26, 2020 at 14:03. Reason: Typo

  3. #3
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    Like you Dark, I wanted to see Chainsaw Leon not Likeable Leon but you don’t change the spots on a leopard I guess and that seems to be Leon Rose personality, a deliberate, consensus building type rather than a cutthroat turnaround specialist. Read today in the NY Post this guy Aller is going to have some authority to restructure that front office as the VP of BBall Strategy, I’ve been saying that the Knicks front office seemed to be the most top heavy front office in the league and needed to be streamlined and reorganized and the Post article described it as such.

    The draft is still a couple of months away and while Perry is still in charge of it, it wouldn’t surprise me if Perry is replaced as the GM before then, that’s at least what I’m hoping. Maybe Aller being on board now will accelerate the selection of the new GM, Perry’s contract is up end of June so he won’t be kept on after his contract expires. Epic fail if Rose renews Perry’s contract, he should know that.

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    PO’d that the Bulls hired their new GM already after dumping Paxon and Forman a few weeks ago. What the hell is Rose waiting for? Perry should have been fired the day Rose was hired.

  5. #5
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    Hey Tiger, Question... Who would you like to see as GM & Director of Player development(C. Robinson)? How about Magic Johnson as GM? I know it is a reach but maybe he is mad enough with the Lakers that he will take the job. Just wondering.

  6. #6
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    Ok, it official Scott Perry will be allowed to run this year draft and will be the GM for the future according to Leon Rose.

    Let say that this is the worst thing that could happen to the Knicks for the forseeable future. We will be in this mess for another 4 to 5 years before someone makes another change at the top. The current state of the Knicks IMO will not get any better and maybe worst. We can talk about this all day but it isn't going to get better. I'm so mad right now I could chew nails.

    In the beginning of this thread I express my concerns about Rose. All of them seens to be coming true. Rose has seal his fate with me.

    Their is another thread that I post awhile back on New Management. https://www.knicksonline.com/forums/showthread.php?15524-Indictment-of-New-Management

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger0330 View Post
    Like you Dark, I wanted to see Chainsaw Leon not Likeable Leon but you don’t change the spots on a leopard I guess and that seems to be Leon Rose personality, a deliberate, consensus building type rather than a cutthroat turnaround specialist. Read today in the NY Post this guy Aller is going to have some authority to restructure that front office as the VP of BBall Strategy, I’ve been saying that the Knicks front office seemed to be the most top heavy front office in the league and needed to be streamlined and reorganized and the Post article described it as such.

    The draft is still a couple of months away and while Perry is still in charge of it, it wouldn’t surprise me if Perry is replaced as the GM before then, that’s at least what I’m hoping. Maybe Aller being on board now will accelerate the selection of the new GM, Perry’s contract is up end of June so he won’t be kept on after his contract expires. Epic fail if Rose renews Perry’s contract, he should know that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Raider View Post
    Ok, it official Scott Perry will be allowed to run this year draft and will be the GM for the future according to Leon Rose.

    Let say that this is the worst thing that could happen to the Knicks for the forseeable future. We will be in this mess for another 4 to 5 years before someone makes another change at the top. The current state of the Knicks IMO will not get any better and maybe worst. We can talk about this all day but it isn't going to get better. I'm so mad right now I could chew nails.

    In the beginning of this thread I express my concerns about Rose. All of them seens to be coming true. Rose has seal his fate with me.

    Their is another thread that I post awhile back on New Management. https://www.knicksonline.com/forums/showthread.php?15524-Indictment-of-New-Management
    Epic fail bringing Perry back. Should have done what the Bulls did bringing in a guy that's been working the draft with the Sixers which is btw one of the organizations that is heavily invested in analytics and a new age NBA basketball team.

    So far not impressed with Leon but I commented his value may only be to bring in free agents that wouldn't consider signing with the Knicks if he wasn't here. Lets see if he has the cachet to do that.

  8. #8
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    Surprise, Surprise!!
    Look like Leon Rose has hired a Real BB person in Walt Perrin. I'm not sure of his credentials but from the article they look pretty good. Maybe this will lead to Perry being axe or let go. If not then that is another bad sign for the Knicks.

    https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/knicks-expected-to-hire-walt-perrin-as-assistant-gm-as-leon-rose-continues-reshaping-front-office/313447548

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Raider View Post
    Surprise, Surprise!!
    Look like Leon Rose has hired a Real BB person in Walt Perrin. I'm not sure of his credentials but from the article they look pretty good. Maybe this will lead to Perry being axe or let go. If not then that is another bad sign for the Knicks.

    https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/knicks-expected-to-hire-walt-perrin-as-assistant-gm-as-leon-rose-continues-reshaping-front-office/313447548
    Looks to be a good talent evaluator but judging by his resume not a guy that Rose would have waiting in the wings to become the next GM after Perry's one year deal expires. Maybe Rose takes the hat of the GM himself or he signs Perry to a longer term deal if the team performs during his year long audition next season.

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    Perry worked with Perrin in DET, before he bolted for Utah. They have history and familiarity working together. Maybe complimenting Perry is the plan, and doing so while avoiding the appearance of undermining his authority. Perry did find Mrob in the second round, he added draft capital, while preserving precious cap space and was a fairly decent steward to a sinking ship that was the previous 2 years.

    While his track record is unimpressive, he’s still an evolving executive, who perhaps sold Rose on his vision, and benefits from the fact that — given a radical or miraculous alternative — this roster is YOUNG and needs 2-3 seasons together before we’ll know if there’s something here.

    The plan, it seems, is build around this roster, allow it to season some, endure growing pains, and strike when ready. Find a star somehow or just find role players that play to what our roster needs most to allow this group to fulfill the potential that led us to invest in them in the lottery.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mafra View Post
    Perry worked with Perrin in DET, before he bolted for Utah. They have history and familiarity working together. Maybe complimenting Perry is the plan, and doing so while avoiding the appearance of undermining his authority. Perry did find Mrob in the second round, he added draft capital, while preserving precious cap space and was a fairly decent steward to a sinking ship that was the previous 2 years.

    While his track record is unimpressive, he’s still an evolving executive, who perhaps sold Rose on his vision, and benefits from the fact that — given a radical or miraculous alternative — this roster is YOUNG and needs 2-3 seasons together before we’ll know if there’s something here.

    The plan, it seems, is build around this roster, allow it to season some, endure growing pains, and strike when ready. Find a star somehow or just find role players that play to what our roster needs most to allow this group to fulfill the potential that led us to invest in them in the lottery.
    Asst GM seems like a step down from his previous title of VP of Scouting, makes me wonder if he got some kind of verbal promise that he'll be the next GM when Perry's contract is up. Must at least be paying him a lot more than he was making in Utah for him to take the apparent demotion, Asst GM is a job usually relegated to young hot shots as a path to a GM job after a period of grooming.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger0330 View Post
    Asst GM seems like a step down from his previous title of VP of Scouting, makes me wonder if he got some kind of verbal promise that he'll be the next GM when Perry's contract is up. Must at least be paying him a lot more than he was making in Utah for him to take the apparent demotion, Asst GM is a job usually relegated to young hot shots as a path to a GM job after a period of grooming.

    I agree with you about maybe going on with this hire.
    Let hope Perrin is here to run this year draft because Perry track record isn't good at all. Mafra think that Perry found MRob in the 2nd round but that not true. It was C. Gaines that found MRob and Trier. Remember Gaines wasn't let go until after the draft... WHY?? Perry didn't follow all of Gaines advice and that was to trade back with the Clippers and get both of their 1st round picks.

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    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si....chell-robinson

    Gaines demoted to scout when Perry arrived. Perry led the 2018 draft. After Gaines pushed hard for NYK to take French Frank over D-MItch the year before.... his voice was tuned out by the new regime.

    D-MItch from Elmsford, his father with the Mets, the college coach begging us to take him. But Gaines wanted the perfect triangle PG. That was the final pick CG was the architect behind. MRob is on Perry’s watch and he gets credit for making the pick. Thankfully he didn’t grab another C Early.

    Phil didn’t do any work for the 2017 draft. He couldn’t even stay awake watching prospects audition. He was happy to just select whomever CG recommended. No wonder Dolan fires Phil right after the draft.

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    Thanks for website on Perry drafting. Maybe you forgot that Perry was Assistant GM under Rob Hennigan in Orlando. So if you want to give credit then let give it where it due, OK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Perry_(basketball)

    Again, for the unteenth time. If Gaines wasn't important then simply let him leave early before the draft. Why didn't this happen? Gaines didn't know anything about player evaluation then there is no reason to have him there. BUT HE WAS!! Of course MRob was drafted on Perry & Mills watch and yes he get credit but does he deserve it. Jealousy is a bad thing and that is what Perry had for Gaines. So just answer the question of why was he left until after the draft?
    I have asked that question of you several time and never an answer.

    In 2018 at the Hawks game in ATL. I had a conversation with both then Pres. Steve Mills and Scott Perry. My talk with Mills enforce what I ready knew about C. Gaines knowledge of talent. Mills said that the Knicks had just start following high school player for last 2 or 3 years. This was related to me asking about finding Trier just like they followed Dotson. He didn't say that he put it in place so knowing he doesn't know anything talent.

    Maybe you forgot there was another 2nd round pick with Cleanthony Early (No. 34) and Thanasis Antetokounmpo (No. 51). There wasn't a 1st round pick that year and yes like a lot of other team miss out on Jocic.

    I imagine there are a lot of father wishing there son would be drafted by there home team or favorite. So Mitch dad had no barring on who the Knicks drafted. BTW, you said the reason for drafting Frank. Maybe sometime you forget the environment that was happening at that time. Phil was trying to build a team that could run the triangle which won championships. I for one as a Knicks fan expected no lest from him. Of course you are happy with the people who replaced the man that won the most NBA Championship. Now again, how many championship did his replacement win with there offensive scheme? I'M WAITING!!



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    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Your grasping at straws now.... Triangle worked in 1990s, bc Phil had 2 HOF players (a G on each), arguably 2 top 50 players in each squad, and employed his offense in an era where you could win games 94-88.

    Rules changed. Three point shot made things different. Getting open 17 foot shots is a strategy of the past.

    Phil wasn’t trying to do anything in nY but pocket cash and catch up on rest.

    Signed Noah to arguably worst contract in NBA history. Drafts Cleanthony Early over Jokic, takes Frank over MItch, hires Derek Fisher, re-signed Melo, couldn’t get even B free agents to sit down and talk, and when he left the team was as bereft in talent as it was in early 1980s.

    Thank PHI and KP for the pick. KP wouldn’t work out for them and they passed. If Phil has choice, he takes Okafor over KP.

    You go out on a limb and defend that record. I won’t.

    Dolan lives to keep incompetents around. See Millls. Maybe CG under contract... simple as that.

    Even CG admits Frank a mistake. A costly blunder that set this team back 5 years.
    Last edited by mafra; May 20, 2020 at 12:47.

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