Game Thread: New York Knicks at Minnesota Timberwolves - 3/31/21

Broadway

All Star
It?s just a frustrating turn of events. To do nothing at the deadline and immediately MRob goes down for the season, not to mention Derrick Rose seems like he may just ghost the rest of this season. Hard to keep up with the pack.

Rose should?ve never been given another chance here after his first stint here. Told Casey his knees are a breath away from being shot and to please trade him while they?re on Life Support

The inactivity at deadline is inexcusable but quite honestly a lot probably had to do with Thibs...he likes the squad and probably didn?t want to deal with any major roster adjustments. They didn?t even give 2nd thought to Ferguson and waived him immediately

We?ll see how much they love the Bigs they have in the off-season when it?s time to shell out new deals

As far as Obi he hasn?t played 10gms in a row of 10-15min yet alone 20. Not sure if the kid will last here unless he becomes a near elite defender
 
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mafra

Legend
Obi Toppin the 8th pick. I thought Jordan Hill would forever by the worst draft selection I?ve witnessed personally... but Toppin is gaining steam.

Would you trade Obi straight up for Jaden? I would...

Jaden McDaniels kept it going on Wednesday by hitting 7-of-13 shots and tying his career high with four 3-pointers for 18 points, five rebounds and three assists in 36 minutes of a 102-101 win over the Knicks...

I remember an impartial article from last July which gave 5 reasons why Obi will be a bust and not worthy of a top 10 pick...

His age, his defense, the fact he cannot shoot off pick and rolls, and the mirage of college production... and while his agent Leon Rose got excited over his athleticism, this article suggested his athleticism is exactly why he would draft him...

He cannot operate in space!!!

?Obi Toppin has incredible athleticism in the open court. Multiple times this season Toppin grabbed the ball on a fast break and put down a dunk worthy of qualifying for SportsCenter Top10. One thing never talked about is where all of that athleticism disappears to when he is in traffic? With a player able to jump as high as Toppin, he should be a menace on the offensive glass. Especially given that he was playing against the likes of Fordham, La Salle, and St. Josephs twice every year. Toppin was not just bad on the offensive glass, he was ABYSMAL...

Considering all qualifying players, Toppin finished at 911th in the NCAA in offensive rebound % (that tracks how often a player grabs an available offensive rebound), with his final stat registering at 5.5% per CBS sports. The top offensive rebounder in the country for reference is Oscar Tshiebwe from West Virginia who finished the season at 20.5%.

Toppin ended the season worse at offensive rebounding than Devin Vassell and Isaac Okoro who are two WINGS that are projected lower in the draft than Toppin today. Not to mention every other post player projected in the first round was significantly higher than Toppin in this category. Even Toppin?s little brother Jacob was a better offensive rebounder than Obi Toppin this year.

In the last 20 years, only 6 post players have made an NBA all star game with ORB% numbers as low as what Toppin showed at Dayton this year. Porzingis, Bosh, Garnett, Marc Gasol, Rasheed Wallace, and Al Horford. Each of these guys other than Porzingis was over the age of 30 when they received a selection with offensive rebound percentage numbers below 5.5%. All of these players are either dominant rim protectors or incredible outside shooters that make up for their lack of work on the offensive glass.

So, don?t get distracted by the glitz and glamour of his high-flying dunks, because Toppin only uses that athleticism in the open court and won?t bring value to your franchise by helping to extend possessions.?

https://hollahoops.com/nba/f/5-reasons-why-obi-toppin-will-be-a-bust
 
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Broadway

All Star
This same roster with Fizdale and his staff is 12 - 36 instead of 24 - 24.

Ehhhhh I was never high on Fiz to begin with so the record example isn?t saying much. Thibs was very mediocre his last yr in Minnesota and they had a comparable if not better roster than we do now, a franchise that has been clowned here from time-to-time. Not necessarily his fault but also didn?t absolve him from everything either

I look at all the other newer coaches in the league with hodge podge rosters and they?re doing as good a job as Thibs and in some cases better

Yes we?ve improved but we could also be a middling team for a couple yrs unless something significant changes
 

mafra

Legend
Look at CHA 4-1 since Ball got hurt!

Going from crappy to not an embarrassment isn?t a quantum leap....

Going from good to great is a larger gulf to navigate
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Apparently Obi ain?t as NBA ready as Edwards and McDaniels.

This isn?t Obi?s fault. He?s extremely limited player and gets zero burn. But, I bet if we took Halliburton... TH scores 12 tonight and we win.

Our team prez drafted a guy bc his agency represented him. That decision is probably why we finish as 9-10 seed instead of a 4-6 seed.

Who took the last shot (twice) in this game?
Halliburton would be chillin on the bench just like Quickley .. while Randle AND Barrett run the offense the way they like it for 40 minute a game.
If u havn't notice, Randle & RJ has been doing their best to help Payton stay a starter on this team .. even if it means losing winning games.

Not letting the rookie Quickley run the point on offense one time in the last two games .. IQ speeds up the tempo in our 2-3 zone, plus go to the foul line once or twice when he's running the point for 2 to 5 minute. Quickley's explosion off the bench this season won us a lot of games.
I actually watch how .. D.Rose, Randle, RJ, and Burks took-hold of running the point every time Quickley recieve playing-time in the last two games.

Nothing is wrong with Obi Toppin, who should get all his playing-time having Taj Gibson & Quickley in his lineup throughout rookie season. Thibs type of substitution is not helping Obi's NBA growth, nor Quickley.

Thibs has a 7 man rotation that he let control the offense .. Payton, RJ, Bullock, Randle, Noel, and 6th man Rose, and 7th man Burks !!!
 

mafra

Legend
Trust me, if IQ and Obi were our 2 lead dawgs, and we didn?t have Randle and RJ, we would be 6-42.

Thibbs won?t change his ways but the roster is bad anyway.... Bullock and Alec? Meh... We saw AB?s true colors in the bubble playoffs. Those 2 are marginal bench players on a good roster. Guys who flash, playing 12 minutes off the bench vs the opponent?s reserves.

Noel is a journeyman, offensively deficient rim protector.... EP is a top 10 backup PG in the NBA, but there are 36 better PGs in this league:

Rose has 1 foot in retirement.

Knits and Knox and Toppin have the makeup of accountants.

RJ and Randle are overachievers... This alone has endeared them to Thibbs. Same with Gibson.

Where to turn?
 

mafra

Legend
I would take Burks or Quickley's shooting over RJ Barrett All-day Everyday !!!

Yea, right now for sure. But RJ has been playing well and he is part of the future so why not build equity and let him gain valuable experience that will help his growth?

AB and IQ aren?t as well rounded in their entire games. IQ averages .0001 APG?
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Trust me, if IQ and Obi were our 2 lead dawgs, and we didn’t have Randle and RJ, we would be 6-42.

Their rookies being tested throughout the season for RJ & Randle's position, and minutes.
Payton & Randle became strong friends on their previous team NO Pelicans, now they teamed up with the Knicks 3rd pick in the draft RJ Barrett .. becoming the Knicks 30+ plus minute players last season.
I recall how the trio got MitchRob taken out of the starter lineup last season.
 

mafra

Legend
Do you honestly believe Toppin should be getting Randle?s minutes?

IQ is shooting 39/38/88 %...to go with 2:1 assist:turnover ratio.

RJ is shorting 44/33/73 % to go with 3:1 a:t.

RJ plays better defense, is a better rebounder, and looks to get his teammates involved, more so than IQ.

Right now, IQ has his role. He should be trying to be a scoring spark off the bench. If he wants to be the PG, he needs to create more offense for others.
 

mafra

Legend
Anyway, I do agree. I don?t want the ball anywhere near RJ with game on the line. This is why you need a ball-dominant player to make decisions, distribute, and score...

?It?s what he thinks, it?s his read. It?s an isolation-type play with three options,?? Thibodeau said. ?That was one of them.?

?I felt it was the best shot available,?? Barrett said. ?I?ll have to go back and look at it.??

Meanwhile, the No. 1 pick in the 2020 draft, Anthony Edwards, soared late and made a big driving basket past Barrett down the stretch and finished with 24 points.

Edwards said the Timberwolves wanted to keep the ball away from Randle on the last possession.

?We told Jaden try not let Randle catch the ball, let someone else beat us,? Edwards said on the final play. ?Gladly RJ caught it and if he made the shot we would?ve lived with it. That?s who we wanted taking the shot. We didn?t want anyone else take it.?

?They just wanted it more than us in the fourth,?? Barrett said.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Yea, right now for sure. But RJ has been playing well and he is part of the future so why not build equity and let him gain valuable experience that will help his growth?

AB and IQ aren’t as well rounded in their entire games. IQ averages .0001 APG?

After 2 season of watching RJ I notice he's not a crunch-time player, maybe next year.
Randle showed in 40 something games last season that he was not a crunch-time player.

The playing-time minute Quickley receive from Thibs game after game has been getting lower and lower to spot-minute. Iso-Rose nor Iso-RJ could say their passing game is better than Quickley's, I rather see Quickley play Hero-Ball rather than Randle, Rose, or RJ .. at least Quickleys gonna hit 9 out every 10 free throws.
The Knicks will need Quickley scoring if thibs plan is making the playoff !!!
 

mafra

Legend
I know. I get it. I have more confidence in a Maoi statue head on Easter Island than I trust RJ to score in the clutch... Remember how Duke lost in the Tourny?
 

mafra

Legend
Edwards on seeing EP leave his man, as he found Beasley for the game winning three... I guess math isn?t his best subject, b/c a 2 ties it... a 3 beats you. Why concede a wide open 3 for a risky attempt to steal ball?


Jon Krawczynski
@JonKrawczynski
Edwards on the play: "I was about to turn and fade until I saw Payton came and doubled. I was like, ?He crazy.? I saw Beas in the slot and I kicked it.

"And when I kicked it you can see I just held my hands up. I knew it was good."
 
Anthony Edwards talks a lot of crap apparently. Said that TWolves wanted RJ to take the last shot. They didn?t want anyone else getting the ball other than RJ at the end.

I mean, what he?s saying is true, but saying it in an interview is a little much.
 

mafra

Legend
EP?s defense that allowed that 3 to win it was way worse than RJ?s turnover and missed shot. Unforgivable defensive brain burp left a wide open shooter to win game.
 

Broadway

All Star
I would take Burks or Quickley's shooting over RJ Barrett All-day Everyday !!!

NOT ME!!!

While Burks is better from 3, RJ is better from the field

If Burks was as great as you think he is after 10yrs in and 6 teams, none of which he contributed a lot of WINNING to, most certainly not at a championship level, he wouldn?t have signed here for peanuts

RJ has only missed 10gms in his young career Burks has missed HUNDREDS. Give me the more durable 20yr old with upside having a career yr, instead of the aging veteran journeyman
 

Broadway

All Star
Trust me, if IQ and Obi were our 2 lead dawgs, and we didn?t have Randle and RJ, we would be 6-42.

Thibbs won?t change his ways but the roster is bad anyway.... Bullock and Alec? Meh... We saw AB?s true colors in the bubble playoffs. Those 2 are marginal bench players on a good roster. Guys who flash, playing 12 minutes off the bench vs the opponent?s reserves.

Noel is a journeyman, offensively deficient rim protector.... EP is a top 10 backup PG in the NBA, but there are 36 better PGs in this league:

Rose has 1 foot in retirement.

Knits and Knox and Toppin have the makeup of accountants.

RJ and Randle are overachievers... This alone has endeared them to Thibbs. Same with Gibson.

Where to turn?

Caution expectations and criticisms...when the Lakers had Randle, D-Lo, Ingram, Hart, Zubac, Clarkson(add in Ball later)

NEWS FLASH!!! They were terrible

What proved to be, ?the Lakers were a breeding ground grooming talent?

Trial by fire isn?t necessarily always a bad thing

Randle is young by age but not NBA experience, in some cases reliance on youth is a must based on team structure and strength. We touted our front office for bringing in all this youth and the lion share of it has bend devalued underutilized
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Anthony Edwards talks a lot of crap apparently. Said that TWolves wanted RJ to take the last shot. They didn?t want anyone else getting the ball other than RJ at the end.

I mean, what he?s saying is true, but saying it in an interview is a little much.

Edward's a rookie and already know he is 10 times better than RJ Barrett on both sides of the court, that's why he called Barrett out.
There are to many fans that get highly emotional when someone mention any of RJ flaws.
I'm a Knick fan who watch RJ the last two season to know RJ Barrett has over 20 consistent flaws in his performance. Edwards spoke the truth from scouting-report or coach.
RJ Barrett was the Knicks 3rd pick in the draft, automatically Knicks FO demanded RJ Barrett receive 30+ minute of playingtime in all his rookie season games (got two head coaches FIRED!). The same thing the Knicks did when they selected KP with the 4th pick in the draft.

I would be lying if I say I didn't want Payton, RJ, and Randle traded in the Covid-19 offseason. Why? The non-chemistry trio of Payton RJ Randle kept HOGGING the ball and denying other teammates the ball last season. It was the same trio that got Fiz to take MitchRob out of the starter lineup.
The Knicks trio Payton, RJ, and Randle are doing the same thing in the 2020-21 season.
In the Knicks last two games, I watch DRose Randle and RJ deny the ball from rookie Quickley every time he was given playing-time, making Quickley look like he was no help in the offense.
Last night when RJ caught the inbound pass for the last shot, if RJ would've looked over to the side he would have seen a wide open Quickley with no defenders insight.
Quickley shot zero shots gave out 2 ast, 3 rb, and 1 steal in 13 minute of playingtime.
 
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