Let's not take Kemba Walker for granted

metrocard · Nov 9, 2021

Kemba has joined the Knicks this 2021-22 season on a great bargain deal. Kemba has spent his entire NBA career in Charlotte where guards weren't even given a formidable defensive scheme. You saw Kemba in the 4th quarter get a steal and try to help on defense? He has it in him to get make plays on both ends, however, expecting Kemba to be a force on defense is like expecting Jose Juan Barea to guard the perimeter defensively. We have to know our personnel and talent. He's clearly pass his "prime" but still is a good player.

One positive that helps this team, despite their rocky season in 11 games already is we have a PG who doesn't turn the ball over.

Kemba Walker currently in 10 games:
26 minutes
12.3 ppg
44% FG
45% 3PT
3.2 apg
3.0 rpg
1.2 spg to 1.4 turnovers (this is one of the best ratio's in the NBA right now)

Kemba hasn't driven to the basket because he's still "easing" back into full health.
Yesterday, Kemba driving had it's affect in the 4th quarter against Philly.
I believe once Kemba is settled, his ppg will go up to 15 ppg. Rose's PPG will go up as well.

LA Lakers have a far worse problem in Westbrook who's more expensive, doesn't play defense, and turns the ball over without being able to shoot.

We got Kemba at a bargain, so Kemba critics understand for 26 minute per game, we have an efficient low turnover PG who's obviously offensive sided but can make plays time to time. Kemba makes the game waaaaaaay easier for Robinson and Randle on offense. His range and pick and roll play is outstanding.

Knicks have a chance to creep up in the standings once we get McBride/Grimes into the mix. McBride can be the catalyst for a perimeter defensive guard without us gutting our roster for one.

Before anyone gives up on Kemba, give the man atleast 40 games to prove he's worth his contract. I believe we can win with the Kemba/Rose duo. Fournier needs to figure it out, despite him being a human turnstile, he can shoot the ball. We didn't have shooting did this good and it shows because Randle and RJ are getting more open and having more space to operate offensively.

RJ is our best player and Kemba is a great player for his growth. We haven't seen the best of Kemba yet, I hope everyone is open to giving him a second look than the bad games he had this season. His struggle is better than most's best season. When he comes back to form, we have a legit 15-18 sniper who doesn't turn the ball over. That's huge for us because it only generates more offense and lead us into top seed in the East. Peace.

tiger0330 · Nov 9, 2021

metrocard said:
Kemba has joined the Knicks this 2021-22 season on a great bargain deal. Kemba has spent his entire NBA career in Charlotte where guards weren't even given a formidable defensive scheme. You saw Kemba in the 4th quarter get a steal and try to help on defense? He has it in him to get make plays on both ends, however, expecting Kemba to be a force on defense is like expecting Jose Juan Barea to guard the perimeter defensively. We have to know our personnel and talent. He's clearly pass his "prime" but still is a good player.

One positive that helps this team, despite their rocky season in 11 games already is we have a PG who doesn't turn the ball over.

Kemba Walker currently in 10 games:
26 minutes
12.3 ppg
44% FG
45% 3PT
3.2 apg
3.0 rpg
1.2 spg to 1.4 turnovers (this is one of the best ratio's in the NBA right now)

Kemba hasn't driven to the basket because he's still "easing" back into full health.
Yesterday, Kemba driving had it's affect in the 4th quarter against Philly.
I believe once Kemba is settled, his ppg will go up to 15 ppg. Rose's PPG will go up as well.

LA Lakers have a far worse problem in Westbrook who's more expensive, doesn't play defense, and turns the ball over without being able to shoot.

We got Kemba at a bargain, so Kemba critics understand for 26 minute per game, we have an efficient low turnover PG who's obviously offensive sided but can make plays time to time. Kemba makes the game waaaaaaay easier for Robinson and Randle on offense. His range and pick and roll play is outstanding.

Knicks have a chance to creep up in the standings once we get McBride/Grimes into the mix. McBride can be the catalyst for a perimeter defensive guard without us gutting our roster for one.

Before anyone gives up on Kemba, give the man atleast 40 games to prove he's worth his contract. I believe we can win with the Kemba/Rose duo. Fournier needs to figure it out, despite him being a human turnstile, he can shoot the ball. We didn't have shooting did this good and it shows because Randle and RJ are getting more open and having more space to operate offensively.

RJ is our best player and Kemba is a great player for his growth. We haven't seen the best of Kemba yet, I hope everyone is open to giving him a second look than the bad games he had this season. His struggle is better than most's best season. When he comes back to form, we have a legit 15-18 sniper who doesn't turn the ball over. That's huge for us because it only generates more offense and lead us into top seed in the East. Peace.

Good having you back Metro. I said the same about the 2 new Knicks acquisitions in the preseason, give those 2 until Xmas before coming to any conclusion about the 2, though I cautioned about the falloff in D after losing Payton and Bull but said the upside was higher with the former AS Kemba and someone like Fournier who was more than the catch and shoot threat Bull was. Both have shown offensive flashes this season but the Knicks are currently ranked 27th in D which is partially attributable to our new backcourt. After the Wiz game in the preseason I suggested that Rose won the starting PG job and that's where I think we're headed with Thibs rolling out Kemba as the starter but DRose getting the bulk of the minutes and closing out the game. Thibs said it you can?t rely on offense alone to win games, so he's going make adjustments to improve the D.

RunningJumper · Nov 9, 2021

Welcome back, metro.

Good post. Also I think it's a great thing for us fans to support a New York native. Players bounce around going after money, playing time, etc. Fans want to trade players to get better, which is in some ways fine, but us fans have to remember the name across the chest. Are we supporting the Whoever Wears This Jersey Knicks or the New York Knicks?

tiger0330 · Nov 10, 2021

What I?ve been saying.

When the New York Knicks initially signed Kemba Walker after a sign-and-trade deal with the Boston Celtics and Oklahoma City Thunder, they envision him being an immediate upgrade over Elfrid Payton.
Walker has elite offensive attributes ? lethal agility paired with quality shooting efficiency. However, he?s had a somewhat tricky time gelling with his new team, failing to make an impact on defense and not doing enough with the ball in his hands to provide opportunities for his teammates.
According to Fred Katz of The Athletic, veteran PG Kemba Walker is a common cause of poor scoring and defensive efficiency.

Whenever Evan Fournier, RJ Barrett, Randle or Mitchell Robinson plays next to Walker, the Knicks get outscored. But every one of those players is individually in the green when Walker is on the bench.

Walker is undoubtedly still developing chemistry and learning a new offensive system, which takes time, so his production should increase as the season progresses. However, I wouldn?t be surprised to see Derrick Rose earn starting minutes and Walker sub in behind him.
Essentially, the Knicks find themselves digging out of early holes due to Walker?s inefficiency on defense and lack of transition scoring, while Rose provides a different approach. Rose acts as a game manager and has the athleticism to push the floor with gusto and drive to the rim physically. He?s entirely different than Walker in almost every way, especially on defense, where his plus-minus blows his compadre out of the water.

The only statistic keeping Walker in the conversation was his elite 3-PT shooting to open the year, but he?s since cooled off. The former Celtic has shot under 30% from deep over his last three games, which has made him a liability. He?s averaging just 3.2 assists per game, a career-low up to this point, despite playing in just 26.5 minutes per.
While Walker?s numbers may indicate an inconsistent player learning a new system on both sides of the ball, let?s not forget just how important he is to the team?s success. Increased offensive efficiency opposite Rose is a necessary trade-off compared to the PG duo the Knicks featured last season. The defensive side has taken a hit, but Walker makes up 10-fold with his offense, and until he finally perfects his chemistry with Julius Randle, the work-horse of the starting unit, it will be rocky ? it?s worth the wait.
In the meantime, Thibodeau may consider starting Rose and subbing in Walker behind him to provide the Knicks with better starts. The Knicks can?t afford to keep digging out of early deficits and expecting to win.

Kiyaman · Nov 11, 2021

Wsup Metro .. Kemba's offense couldn't bring success to the Charlotte Hornets, and when Boston Celtics Smart, Brown, and Tatum don't step up for you, and ur traded to a team (OKC) in need of a PG, and they only want to talk about is a buy-out. It's time to worry!

Do i like Kemba bringing down the ball on offense for the Knicks than Randle? Hell yeah!

metrocard · Nov 12, 2021

Kiyaman said:
Wsup Metro .. Kemba's offense couldn't bring success to the Charlotte Hornets, and when Boston Celtics Smart, Brown, and Tatum don't step up for you, and ur traded to a team (OKC) in need of a PG, and they only want to talk about is a buy-out. It's time to worry!

Do i like Kemba bringing down the ball on offense for the Knicks than Randle? Hell yeah!

Charlotte didn't build a roster to win around Kemba, he was basically carrying 75% of their offense.

Marcus Smart is a PG/SG who shoots 36% FG and the reason why Boston will be a jobber team. Tatum/Brown elite young talents, but thats a Pierce/Walker situation. Boston has Schroeder who isn't an answer at PG and OKC traded Kemba because they were going to draft a PG at 6. Josh Giddey clealry is their guy with Shai at SG/PG.

I believe in 35 games, Kemba will change your mind.

best regards to Running, Tig and Kiya.

Dark Raider · Nov 12, 2021

D. Rose as good as you may think he is? he isn?t the answer. I?m a D. Rose fan and BTW we should have never let him go to begin with but that Perry for you. Two things Rose too old to start and isn?t a long term answer. No that knows BB should have ever thought this for a minute. Rose was the answer for Frank and nothing else. Remember ?J. Jack?!!
Walker was another desperate reach by L. Rose to show he knows something about BB. He an agent and someone that coach years ago. L. Rose doesn?t have a clue about what to do for the Knicks. Prime example: He doesn?t fire Perry as soon as he walks into the front door.
And if you think ?Q? is the answer think again. That kid doesn?t have any business in the NBA. He a street baller and nothing else.

So who or whom can solve a problem that should have never happened. Now this is just one of many problems that you will face with a Frankenstein team. Who has the nerve to face the ?Dr? and Monster??

metrocard · Nov 12, 2021

Dark Raider said:
D. Rose as good as you may think he is? he isn?t the answer. I?m a D. Rose fan and BTW we should have never let him go to begin with but that Perry for you. Two things Rose too old to start and isn?t a long term answer. No that knows BB should have ever thought this for a minute. Rose was the answer for Frank and nothing else. Remember ?J. Jack?!!
Walker was another desperate reach by L. Rose to show he knows something about BB. He an agent and someone that coach years ago. L. Rose doesn?t have a clue about what to do for the Knicks. Prime example: He doesn?t fire Perry as soon as he walks into the front door.
And if you think ?Q? is the answer think again. That kid doesn?t have any business in the NBA. He a street baller and nothing else.

So who or whom can solve a problem that should have never happened. Now this is just one of many problems that you will face with a Frankenstein team. Who has the nerve to face the ?Dr? and Monster??

I think eventually McBride will find his way into the rotation and present himself as a two way prototype who can score, handle the ball and play within the offense at a more controlled pace than Quickley.

Quickley is a good spark off the bench, but his offense is erratic and depends on hail mary plays that kills offensive flow nor is Quickley a lockdown defender (most guards arent).

I think we have to be content with Rose/Walker/McBride and give it a chance. Atleast for one year. There wasn't a market out there for PG's for us....we got what we can within 1 year. We were playing Elfrid Payton over 25 minutes a game last year. We made a vast improvement.

We can make roster moves to balance the team out, Rose/Walker aren't long term solutions, but you can't find more serviceable veterans to have right now. It could be that or it could be Russell Westbrook and John Wall, two dated PG's who still can't shoot and stop defending while being turnover prone. We aren't that bad, we just need to give our time table some space for growth.

Kiyaman · Nov 13, 2021

metrocard said:
I think eventually McBride will find his way into the rotation and present himself as a two way prototype who can score, handle the ball and play within the offense at a more controlled pace than Quickley.

Quickley is a good spark off the bench, but his offense is erratic and depends on hail mary plays that kills offensive flow nor is Quickley a lockdown defender (most guards arent).

I think we have to be content with Rose/Walker/McBride and give it a chance. Atleast for one year. There wasn't a market out there for PG's for us....we got what we can within 1 year. We were playing Elfrid Payton over 25 minutes a game last year. We made a vast improvement.

We can make roster moves to balance the team out, Rose/Walker aren't long term solutions, but you can't find more serviceable veterans to have right now. It could be that or it could be Russell Westbrook and John Wall, two dated PG's who still can't shoot and stop defending while being turnover prone. We aren't that bad, we just need to give our time table some space for growth.

Did we make a better improvement letting Payton & Bullocks go?
Bullocks and Randle had the best chemistry as a Knicks on the court on offense/dense last season.
Payton only had a couple of good offensive moves as a play-maker having Randle take over the PG spot worked well for the two on pick n roll.
Thibs upset me big time when he DNP Payton in the final 3 postseason games, as if he didn't have success throughout the regular season playing Payton as our starter all season.

I wanted us to break walls to sign FA Dinwiddle the moment I found out the Nets were not going to resign him. Dinwiddle's creative performance would've help RJ Barrett's passing & position game as a scoring SG, plus Dinwiddle would've took a lot of pressure off of D.Rose leadership of the 2nd unit lineup throughout the season.
The Wizards fresh start of 8-3 record comes from Dinwiddle & Harrell leadership, both has been playing extra hard for the win in the 4th quarter the past 5 seasons. It's up to Beal to be consistent at what he do best for the Wizards to make noise this season.

metrocard · Nov 13, 2021

Kiyaman said:
Did we make a better improvement letting Payton & Bullocks go?
Bullocks and Randle had the best chemistry as a Knicks on the court on offense/dense last season.
Payton only had a couple of good offensive moves as a play-maker having Randle take over the PG spot worked well for the two on pick n roll.
Thibs upset me big time when he DNP Payton in the final 3 postseason games, as if he didn't have success throughout the regular season playing Payton as our starter all season.

I wanted us to break walls to sign FA Dinwiddle the moment I found out the Nets were not going to resign him. Dinwiddle's creative performance would've help RJ Barrett's passing & position game as a scoring SG, plus Dinwiddle would've took a lot of pressure off of D.Rose leadership of the 2nd unit lineup throughout the season.
The Wizards fresh start of 8-3 record comes from Dinwiddle & Harrell leadership, both has been playing extra hard for the win in the 4th quarter the past 5 seasons. It's up to Beal to be consistent at what he do best for the Wizards to make noise this season.

I can make the argument for Bullocks vs Fournier. Fournier has been a bad fit because of what he lacks defensively and in food speed. He's slower than Randle but plays SG.

However it is a completely false narrative that Payton was a better fit than Kemba.

Payton was taking more shots than RJ at one point and Elfriid Payton was the worst starting PG in the NBA last season. With Payton on the floor most of the time the spacing just collapses. Even when Quickley is struggling the spacing is 10x better.
You replace Payton with Kemba, Knick broke their franchise record in 3pt shot made. We have superior spacing and that's what we lacked in the playoffs. Offensively, Payton killed us. He average 6apg for his career only to come to NY to average 3apg with all the minutes Thibs gave him.

Payton's defense wasn't the worst but it was not good. Alot of PGs dropped 30 on him while Payton collected offensive rebounds and a few steals. Payton's defense rating became the worst on the roster last season. He was only playing for himself and that's the last kind of PG the Knicks need.

Kemba can have a long streak of good games, our guys still trying to mesh chemistry with Fournier and RJ + the bench. Give it time.

Dinwiddie/Harrell nice players but they're both as old as Kemba and are bench players on a playoff team. Bucks are .500 right now. I wouldn't put too much stock in what teams record are 10 games into the season. over 70 games left, a lot can change and Wizards can be a team who completely goes flat. Dinwiddie is a career 40% FG shooter, he can play but he's streaky as hell. He's a big PG which is what the Knicks could use. I like his playstyle and Washington can stay good if they stay healthy.

Dark Raider · Nov 13, 2021

metrocard said:
I can make the argument for Bullocks vs Fournier. Fournier has been a bad fit because of what he lacks defensively and in food speed. He's slower than Randle but plays SG.

However it is a completely false narrative that Payton was a better fit than Kemba.

Payton was taking more shots than RJ at one point and Elfriid Payton was the worst starting PG in the NBA last season. With Payton on the floor most of the time the spacing just collapses. Even when Quickley is struggling the spacing is 10x better.
You replace Payton with Kemba, Knick broke their franchise record in 3pt shot made. We have superior spacing and that's what we lacked in the playoffs. Offensively, Payton killed us. He average 6apg for his career only to come to NY to average 3apg with all the minutes Thibs gave him.

Payton's defense wasn't the worst but it was not good. Alot of PGs dropped 30 on him while Payton collected offensive rebounds and a few steals. Payton's defense rating became the worst on the roster last season. He was only playing for himself and that's the last kind of PG the Knicks need.

Kemba can have a long streak of good games, our guys still trying to mesh chemistry with Fournier and RJ + the bench. Give it time.

Dinwiddie/Harrell nice players but they're both as old as Kemba and are bench players on a playoff team. Bucks are .500 right now. I wouldn't put too much stock in what teams record are 10 games into the season. over 70 games left, a lot can change and Wizards can be a team who completely goes flat. Dinwiddie is a career 40% FG shooter, he can play but he's streaky as hell. He's a big PG which is what the Knicks could use. I like his playstyle and Washington can stay good if they stay healthy.

Metro, you cooking the books with Payton taking more shots than RJ. Randle is the only player taking more shots than RJ. Think about that was minute. Not a Payton fan but he played what the coach told him to play. Many times that is a factor that is often over looked. Who calling the offensive? What was the game plan to began with? All is that goes to coaching and then you have the problem where is he getting his instructions from???? Upstairs???

Chemistry was killed long time ago with this when the second unit often out played the starters. But what did the Front Office do dismantle it and rebuilt and told all the fans it was for the better. Seriously!!

Time is a luxury that this team or organization doesn't have. The clock is ticking and they have made decision that will effect this team for the next 5 years or more. Always ask the question of those clowns running the Knicks... How close are we to a CHAMPIONSHIP?? You Know the Answer!!

Kiyaman · Nov 14, 2021

We need last season assistant-coach Woody back on the bench ..
A lot of the Knicks last season success came from Covid-19 protocol, and performing night after night in empty stadiums. The Obi Toppin Fan base has become much louder in MSG, so expect the noise the next couple of games at MSG. Especially, if Thibs starters keep performing individual b.ball. ....

Randle .... dribble-dribble! No more bullock & Payton covering & meshing for him on offense/defense
Fournier .... a 20 min uptempo scorer, weak in halfcourt offense/defense
RJ Barrett .... A raw inconsistent offense/defense rarely passes ball
Kemba .... dribble-dribble-dribble! No-creativeness, rarely passes ball
MitchRob .... working with Four ISO selfish starters that don't mesh on offense/defensee

metrocard · Nov 14, 2021

Dark Raider said:
Metro, you cooking the books with Payton taking more shots than RJ. Randle is the only player taking more shots than RJ. Think about that was minute. Not a Payton fan but he played what the coach told him to play. Many times that is a factor that is often over looked. Who calling the offensive? What was the game plan to began with? All is that goes to coaching and then you have the problem where is he getting his instructions from???? Upstairs???

Chemistry was killed long time ago with this when the second unit often out played the starters. But what did the Front Office do dismantle it and rebuilt and told all the fans it was for the better. Seriously!!

Time is a luxury that this team or organization doesn't have. The clock is ticking and they have made decision that will effect this team for the next 5 years or more. Always ask the question of those clowns running the Knicks... How close are we to a CHAMPIONSHIP?? You Know the Answer!!

Payton was constantly looking off RJ during their offensive sets. RJ would be open in the corner and Payton would really rely on his tendencies than actually make a play. He wasn't doing what the coach "told him to play" if he did, he would of averaged more assist with his starter minutes. He would hold the ball and not move the offense. Do you remember how bad our offense was last season? It just the Randle show until Derrick Rose came back. When Julius Randle is your best passer, then you know the offense is lacking playmakers. This off-season we tried our best to address that.

Payton has no jumpshot. This is 2021-22 NBA. Guys without jumpshots get PHASED out. Ben Simmons is 6"11 but has been phased out, Andre Drummond is a back up. Former all stars are getting demoted if their shot isn't developing. John Wall/Westbrook age caught up to them because they just can't rely on athleticism anymore. Why would Knicks even normalize giving a PG who can't shoot starter minutes and doesn't pass to the guys who are open in the corner? Payton killed us last year and that's evident. Payton is currently a 3rd string PG on the Suns who been struggling offensively, I wonder why. Suns were in the Finals last year, now they add Payton and everyone's numbers goes down. Booker having a career worse season. Payton kills ball movement and doesn't space the floor. Kemba does the opposite.

The Knicks front office historically have been of the worst in the NBA. From the draft to free agency. However, we are in better hands than the past. Knicks have future draft picks and our best player (RJ Barrett) is developing into a two way who will be on Tatum/Browns level. I believe RJ breaks out in the 2nd half and we'll see an enhanced version of his game.

Kiyaman said:
We need last season assistant-coach Woody back on the bench ..
A lot of the Knicks last season success came from Covid-19 protocol, and performing night after night in empty stadiums. The Obi Toppin Fan base has become much louder in MSG, so expect the noise the next couple of games at MSG. Especially, if Thibs starters keep performing individual b.ball. ....

Randle .... dribble-dribble! No more bullock & Payton covering & meshing for him on offense/defense
Fournier .... a 20 min uptempo scorer, weak in halfcourt offense/defense
RJ Barrett .... A raw inconsistent offense/defense rarely passes ball
Kemba .... dribble-dribble-dribble! No-creativeness, rarely passes ball
MitchRob .... working with Four ISO selfish starters that don't mesh on offense/defensee

Toppin will be our future starter at the forward position. I believe he's brewing into an all around player. You see him now making passes, driving to the basket, playing defense, posting up on smaller players. The only thing that is left is the jumpshot. If Toppin averages 35-37% 3pt we have a potential Jerami Grant on our team, who would compliment RJ.

Kiyaman said:
We need last season assistant-coach Woody back on the bench ..
A lot of the Knicks last season success came from Covid-19 protocol, and performing night after night in empty stadiums. The Obi Toppin Fan base has become much louder in MSG, so expect the noise the next couple of games at MSG. Especially, if Thibs starters keep performing individual b.ball. ....

Randle .... dribble-dribble! No more bullock & Payton covering & meshing for him on offense/defense
Fournier .... a 20 min uptempo scorer, weak in halfcourt offense/defense
RJ Barrett .... A raw inconsistent offense/defense rarely passes ball
Kemba .... dribble-dribble-dribble! No-creativeness, rarely passes ball
MitchRob .... working with Four ISO selfish starters that don't mesh on offense/defensee

so-called "point guard" Elfriid Payton has horrible vision, misses open guys all the time, takes bad shots instead of moving the ball, and commits sloppy turnovers. We can't forget last season.

I believe Kemba is the more creative PG than Payton, and it's not even close. Kemba at 25% health does more on offense than Elfriid Payton at full health. Kemba stretches the floor and has found guys open on the corner. We broke our franchise 3pt record with Kemba as our floor general.

Payton not being able to stretch the floor hurts guys like Mitchell Robinson. It clogs the paint with a guy who can easily get blocked, as oppose to having a 3pt threat who can space the floor and give Robinson room to operate. Having a PG and Center who can't shoot = no offensive creativity.

in NBA history, all the championship caliber teams had a PG who can shoot to compliment the center who can't stretch the floor. D. Fisher for Shaq, C. Billups for Wallace, Kidd/Terry/Barea for Chandler. Miami championship teams always had a PG who can shoot or pass, but they also had the luxury of having Bosh who can shoot and defend, which changed the NBA. Draymond Green comes in, Warrior's dynasty starts brewing because Draymond not the most accurate 3pt shooter, still stretches the floor and makes the offense more lethal since you have the two ATG's shooters to play with.

Knicks don't have a center who can stretch the floor. So it's mandatory our PG's shoot well. Kemba is shooting 43% 3pt and Rose is shooting 46% 3pt.

because of that, Mitchell Robinson leads the NBA in FG% at 82%. We do need to run more pick and roll and Kemba does need to pass more effectively. I agree with that.

Rose has outpreformed everyone on this team overall. He's the 6th man of the year along side Jordan Clarkson. But Knicks have depth at PG and it'll be the least of our problems this season.

Have some faith in this team!!!

We were running with 3rd string PG's like Chris Duhon/Raymond Felton who lead us nothing but low seed finishes. Now we have Rose/Walker. Not in their primes, but both guys are shooting better than any PG we had in the last 25 years. We need to be patient with this squad.

The timetable is around RJ. We have a 5 year span to build a contender. Rose, Burks, Walker may not be part of the team by that time, but this is great experience and growth for RJ who can learn and play around veterans who produced at elite levels for most of their NBA career. It's the best we can do, Lillard isn't available nor do we want Ben Simmons because he'll get trashed by NY media and he's already sensitive and soft.

Dark Raider · Nov 14, 2021

metrocard said:
Payton was constantly looking off RJ during their offensive sets. RJ would be open in the corner and Payton would really rely on his tendencies than actually make a play. He wasn't doing what the coach "told him to play" if he did, he would of averaged more assist with his starter minutes. He The timetable is around RJ. We have a 5 year span to build a contender. Rose, Burks, Walker may not be part of the team by that time, but this is great experience and growth for RJ who can learn and play around veterans who produced at elite levels for most of their NBA career. It's the best we can do, Lillard isn't available nor do we want Ben Simmons because he'll get trashed by NY media and he's already sensitive and soft.would hold the ball and not move the offense. Do you remember how bad our offense was last season? It just the Randle show until Derrick Rose came back. When Julius Randle is your best passer, then you know the offense is lacking playmakers. This off-season we tried our best to address that.

Payton has no jumpshot. This is 2021-22 NBA. Guys without jumpshots get PHASED out. Ben Simmons is 6"11 but has been phased out, Andre Drummond is a back up. Former all stars are getting demoted if their shot isn't developing. John Wall/Westbrook age caught up to them because they just can't rely on athleticism anymore. Why would Knicks even normalize giving a PG who can't shoot starter minutes and doesn't pass to the guys who are open in the corner? Payton killed us last year and that's evident. Payton is currently a 3rd string PG on the Suns who been struggling offensively, I wonder why. Suns were in the Finals last year, now they add Payton and everyone's numbers goes down. Booker having a career worse season. Payton kills ball movement and doesn't space the floor. Kemba does the opposite.

The Knicks front office historically have been of the worst in the NBA. From the draft to free agency. However, we are in better hands than the past. Knicks have future draft picks and our best player (RJ Barrett) is developing into a two way who will be on Tatum/Browns level. I believe RJ breaks out in the 2nd half and we'll see an enhanced version of his game.

Payton was suppose to look off RJ. Even if it didn't come from Thib's he should have done so. RJ don't run nothing!! He's a rookie that should have been starting to began with. That another problem among many that you never talk about. If you look at 'Tiger' video clip it shows RJ waving off Randle pick. That is a set play for them to run but instead took an outside shot. Why do you think RJ is open in the corner?? Because teams no that RJ isn't going to hurt them. Never he can hit 40 and we would still lose. You only get an assist if that player you pass the ball to hit the shot. Now who would you pass to an open RJ in the corner or a JR closer to the basket. "Five 5 years span to build a contender"... "Timetable is around RJ". Are Serious?? Where the hell did you get that from? First of all RJ is in his 3rd year... Secondly all of the start with signing of Randle, Bullock, Bobby P. Ellington and Payton. So do the math, Ok! You are in the 3rd year of rebuilding. If you want RJ to learn send him to G-league with a coach that know something about BB. Then trade him to the first fool you can find. As bad as Simmons may be I offer RJ for him in a heartbeat. I don't know what you think the Knicks have in RJ but it isn't anything to build around. He not that kind of player. He will never transform the Knicks into anything good. He doesn't have any electricity... no explosiveness to basket, no light out 3 pt shooter, no hellve rebounder, no great passer. Look at my Avatar and that someone he will never come close to beginning. No matter how many minutes you play him. IT AIN'T HAPPENING!! There are a lot of problems with this team and I don't care how much time you give them that ain't going to be contender and at best just playoff.

If Payton is the 3rd sting PG then he can't be effecting Sun's that much, huh. So they have another problem but it ain't Payton. Again you like to cook the books, Don't U!!

"However, we are in better hands than the past". Do you really believe this?? This is the same F.O. that tank the 1st year restrictions were place to deter Tanking. This is the same F.O. that traded K.P. The same F.O. that didn't have enough sense to trade back in that 1st year of restrictions for tanking after they didn't get the #1 overall pick. This is the same F.O. that let D. Rose go to another team only to realize that they made a mistake. This is the same F.O. that sign J. Jack to mentor Frank. I can keep going if you want!!!

Cook the books with someone that don't know.

Dark Raider · Nov 14, 2021

Kiyaman said:
We need last season assistant-coach Woody back on the bench ..
A lot of the Knicks last season success came from Covid-19 protocol, and performing night after night in empty stadiums. The Obi Toppin Fan base has become much louder in MSG, so expect the noise the next couple of games at MSG. Especially, if Thibs starters keep performing individual b.ball. ....

Randle .... dribble-dribble! No more bullock & Payton covering & meshing for him on offense/defense
Fournier .... a 20 min uptempo scorer, weak in halfcourt offense/defense
RJ Barrett .... A raw inconsistent offense/defense rarely passes ball
Kemba .... dribble-dribble-dribble! No-creativeness, rarely passes ball
MitchRob .... working with Four ISO selfish starters that don't mesh on offense/defensee

Please say the second sentence again so all of these Knick fans can know what is really going on. Teams that normally made the playoff were playing for the best draft in years. They were retooling there team for the long haul.

So what do you do with that starting Five? If I can recall all of those things were said before the season started. Only thing missing is how long will Walker stay healthy?

metrocard · Nov 15, 2021

Dark Raider said:
Payton was suppose to look off RJ. Even if it didn't come from Thib's he should have done so. RJ don't run nothing!! He's a rookie that should have been starting to began with.

To be accurate, RJ was a sophomore on the season I was assessing Payton, not a rookie. It's important we know this because I wasn't talking about RJ as a rookie. Sophmore, more particular after the all star break of 21' which lead us to the playoffs because RJ and Rose got hot at the same time.

Dark Raider said:
"Five 5 years span to build a contender"... "Timetable is around RJ". Are Serious?? Where the hell did you get that from? First of all RJ is in his 3rd year... Secondly all of the start with signing of Randle, Bullock, Bobby P. Ellington and Payton. So do the math, Ok! You are in the 3rd year of rebuilding. If you want RJ to learn send him to G-league with a coach that know something about BB. Then trade him to the first fool you can find. As bad as Simmons may be I offer RJ for him in a heartbeat. I don't know what you think the Knicks have in RJ but it isn't anything to build around. He not that kind of player. He will never transform the Knicks into anything good. He doesn't have any electricity... no explosiveness to basket, no light out 3 pt shooter, no hellve rebounder, no great passer. Look at my Avatar and that someone he will never come close to beginning. No matter how many minutes you play him. IT AIN'T HAPPENING!! There are a lot of problems with this team and I don't care how much time you give them that ain't going to be contender and at best just playoff.

RJ shoots 40% from 3pt and plays defense in his 2nd year in the NBA. Ben Simmons been in the NBA 4+ years and is STILL one of the worst shooters in the NBA virtually with no jumpshot. RJ has higher value than Simmons and trading RJ for Simmons is just poor. Simmons has been exposed in the playoffs and has checked out of the NBA. Dude is legit afraid to play a game and hates his team/franchise. Sure, let's trade a level headed 3rd year player who has been nothing but drama free, durable and got better every season and shoots 40% from 3PT his sophmore year for a guy who's been in the NBA for 4 years and is always injury prone. Theres no argument for this. Simmons is a career 14% 3PT shooter and 59% FT shooter while averaging 14ppg. Sure he can rebound/pass/defend, but he folds in the playoffs. This is known amongst the NBA community and you're acting new.

Ben Simmons is soft and timid, right now he doesn't even show up for NBA games and has abandoned his team. Philly is currently FINING him and you want us to trade our best young talent for him? so if Simmons didn't workout in Philly, what makes you think he'll handle NY media and pressure better? Makes zero sense. You got some information wrong, read this:

You say RJ isn't a good shooter but:

Ever since the All-Star break of 21', Barrett has averaged 19.2 points, 5.2 rebounds, and 3.2 assists. He has a True Shooting percentage of 56.2%, an improved free-throw shooting of 74.4%, and three-point percentage of 42.3%. So you're 200% wrong about RJ not being a "good shooter". He's one of our best options in the corner if you watched games and researched. That's why starting the statement with "its a good idea to ignore RJ in the corner" you knew wasn't coming here to make sense. If you're shooting 56.2% TS in your sophmore, you're very good. At least you're learning something here. But you're 200% wrong about RJ being bad at shooting and defense. RJ has ranked as our best perimeter defender and his shooting has improved. Why are you ignoring the stats that show he plays both ends, get rebounds and assist not even as the primary ball handler, let alone secondary. It's usually Randle or the PG, yet RJ still gets out 3.2 apg at the 3. That can go up to 4-5 in his career which is solid af.

If Payton is the 3rd sting PG then he can't be effecting Sun's that much, huh. So they have another problem but it ain't Payton. Again you like to cook the books, Don't U!!

3rd string, 2nd string, 1st string, 0 strings, Elfriid isn't good in any role and doesn't impact winning. Suns had a better player in Jevon Carter. Just facts.

"However, we are in better hands than the past". Do you really believe this??

Yea guy, I watched this team when they were at their worst. Did you? What we're doing now is light years better than the Isiah era. Not even close. Ask yourself if you're actually reading my post or you're just replying just to reply. These responses bring nothing to the discussion Kiyaman and I were having.

This is the same F.O. that tank the 1st year restrictions were place to deter
Tanking. This is the same F.O. that traded K.P. The same F.O. that didn't have enough sense to trade back in that 1st year of restrictions for tanking after they didn't get the #1 overall pick. This is the same F.O. that let D. Rose go to another team only to realize that they made a mistake. This is the same F.O. that sign J. Jack to mentor Frank. I can keep going if you want!!!

Cook the books with someone that don't know.

KP wasn't worth it. He's always INJURED and has clashed with Luka. KP wanted to leave NY....that wasn't just the front office, dude wasn't a good locker room presence nor he has chemistry with teammates in Dallas. Zion Williams is 330lbs and not even playing games for NOLA and he doesn't even play defense. Do you even watch the Pelicans play? You seem not up to date with what's going on in the NBA today. Ben Simmons is checked out, Zion ate his way out of even playing games, KP has stunk in Dallas and struggles to play with LUKA. Ask yourself how many games KP plays a season.

Last season it was 43, previous shorten season but it was 57, before that he skipped an ENTIRE season with an ACL injury and before that he only played 48 games. Act like you know. KP plays like Keith Van Horn with shot blocking. Nothing to cry about. Knicks letting him made us better for our rebuild. RJ > KP and we're building a better future with KP.

Zion is nothing to be sad about too. Yea we didnt get the #1 pick, but NY media would of destroyed and buried Zion. Zion can get fat and not attend games because he's in NOLA where theres no pressure on players to play to expectations. Research Zion's career. Dude struggling to even get on the court. He's a generational talent, but he's been exposed as fragile, lacking conditioning and a young player with weight issues. If you're sad about Zion not coming to NY, I can't imagine how you felt when Michael Sweetney and Eddie Curry left. We don't need players who don't take their conditioning seriously. I rather cook books with someone who takes conditioning seriously and statistics seriously.

We sign Jarrett Jack to to a 1 year deal...that didn't even kill our cap, you have alot of dramatic reaches here for no reason. lol Jarrett Jack? We really MAD about Jarrett Jack?

We are a playoff team and we'll get better. Sorry if you don't want to be patient for this team. I do. Revise your information and see why RJ is a great catalyst for our future. He's a better shooter and defender than you think. Watch the games. Without RJ, we wouldn't be where we are. His development has been excellent and his doubters been wrong.

You're acting like Knicks made bad moves, but they turned out to be in their factor.

Theres a difference in being a pessimistic fan or choosing to be pessimistic when you have little to be pessimistic about.

Lacking sense and in an alternate universe if you were GM of the Knicks, we'll have the most toxic team of all time.

Simmons
Burks
Bullock
Williamson
Porzingis

3 guys who don't even play full seasons, 1 guy with an eating disorder(Zion), 1 guy with a jumpshot disorder(Ben Simmons) and 1 guy with a personality disorder (KP). You seem to favor guys who don't show up to games, don't take their career seriously as they should and clash with teammates as oppose to the opposite.

What's funny is I pushed for KP, Simmons, Williamson. I was a big supporter of them. But anyone can be wrong and I was wrong about them because I didn't know they would have so many personal issues that would get in the way of their career and you failed to highlight that. As a caring and smart GM, you don't trade guys who show up for guys who are cancers for other teams. That's what Isiah Thomas did and if you're Isiah Thomas under a hidey, please reveal your identity now. That dude brought some of the most toxic rosters in NY history and gaslighted our players. It's just bad suggestions, nothing personal. I think majority of NBA fans would agree Simmons for RJ is a bad trade. Most of this forum would agree. Don't mean to magnify you to being the minority on this opinion, but that's where you stand at on this. RJ >>>> Simmons. Simmons has more talent and size, but does nothing with it. He's been the same player since LSU. Doesn't even try to learn a jumpshot.

RunningJumper · Nov 15, 2021

How many players are better ball handlers than Walker in the NBA? Kyrie is probably the best, maybe Chris Paul second? When Kemba gets healthy enough we might be seeing those handles more often.

metrocard · Nov 15, 2021

RunningJumper said:
How many players are better ball handlers than Walker in the NBA? Kyrie is probably the best, maybe Chris Paul second? When Kemba gets healthy enough we might be seeing those handles more often.

I agree.

I think when Randle/RJ/Fournier stop slumping, we'll see more assist from our PG's because if we look at it compared to other NBA PG's, Knicks Rose and Walker both have low turnovers. We're very lucky to have two PG's who have tight handles and can save Randle from his iso play. If we didn't have Rose/Walker, Randle would spam iso and take less percentage shots.

Dark Raider · Nov 16, 2021

metrocard said:
To be accurate, RJ was a sophomore on the season I was assessing Payton, not a rookie. It's important we know this because I wasn't talking about RJ as a rookie. Sophmore, more particular after the all star break of 21' which lead us to the playoffs because RJ and Rose got hot at the same time.

RJ shoots 40% from 3pt and plays defense in his 2nd year in the NBA. Ben Simmons been in the NBA 4+ years and is STILL one of the worst shooters in the NBA virtually with no jumpshot. RJ has higher value than Simmons and trading RJ for Simmons is just poor. Simmons has been exposed in the playoffs and has checked out of the NBA. Dude is legit afraid to play a game and hates his team/franchise. Sure, let's trade a level headed 3rd year player who has been nothing but drama free, durable and got better every season and shoots 40% from 3PT his sophmore year for a guy who's been in the NBA for 4 years and is always injury prone. Theres no argument for this. Simmons is a career 14% 3PT shooter and 59% FT shooter while averaging 14ppg. Sure he can rebound/pass/defend, but he folds in the playoffs. This is known amongst the NBA community and you're acting new.

Ben Simmons is soft and timid, right now he doesn't even show up for NBA games and has abandoned his team. Philly is currently FINING him and you want us to trade our best young talent for him? so if Simmons didn't workout in Philly, what makes you think he'll handle NY media and pressure better? Makes zero sense. You got some information wrong, read this:

You say RJ isn't a good shooter but:

Ever since the All-Star break of 21', Barrett has averaged 19.2 points, 5.2 rebounds, and 3.2 assists. He has a True Shooting percentage of 56.2%, an improved free-throw shooting of 74.4%, and three-point percentage of 42.3%. So you're 200% wrong about RJ not being a "good shooter". He's one of our best options in the corner if you watched games and researched. That's why starting the statement with "its a good idea to ignore RJ in the corner" you knew wasn't coming here to make sense. If you're shooting 56.2% TS in your sophmore, you're very good. At least you're learning something here. But you're 200% wrong about RJ being bad at shooting and defense. RJ has ranked as our best perimeter defender and his shooting has improved. Why are you ignoring the stats that show he plays both ends, get rebounds and assist not even as the primary ball handler, let alone secondary. It's usually Randle or the PG, yet RJ still gets out 3.2 apg at the 3. That can go up to 4-5 in his career which is solid af.

3rd string, 2nd string, 1st string, 0 strings, Elfriid isn't good in any role and doesn't impact winning. Suns had a better player in Jevon Carter. Just facts.

Yea guy, I watched this team when they were at their worst. Did you? What we're doing now is light years better than the Isiah era. Not even close. Ask yourself if you're actually reading my post or you're just replying just to reply. These responses bring nothing to the discussion Kiyaman and I were having.

KP wasn't worth it. He's always INJURED and has clashed with Luka. KP wanted to leave NY....that wasn't just the front office, dude wasn't a good locker room presence nor he has chemistry with teammates in Dallas. Zion Williams is 330lbs and not even playing games for NOLA and he doesn't even play defense. Do you even watch the Pelicans play? You seem not up to date with what's going on in the NBA today. Ben Simmons is checked out, Zion ate his way out of even playing games, KP has stunk in Dallas and struggles to play with LUKA. Ask yourself how many games KP plays a season.

Last season it was 43, previous shorten season but it was 57, before that he skipped an ENTIRE season with an ACL injury and before that he only played 48 games. Act like you know. KP plays like Keith Van Horn with shot blocking. Nothing to cry about. Knicks letting him made us better for our rebuild. RJ > KP and we're building a better future with KP.

Zion is nothing to be sad about too. Yea we didnt get the #1 pick, but NY media would of destroyed and buried Zion. Zion can get fat and not attend games because he's in NOLA where theres no pressure on players to play to expectations. Research Zion's career. Dude struggling to even get on the court. He's a generational talent, but he's been exposed as fragile, lacking conditioning and a young player with weight issues. If you're sad about Zion not coming to NY, I can't imagine how you felt when Michael Sweetney and Eddie Curry left. We don't need players who don't take their conditioning seriously. I rather cook books with someone who takes conditioning seriously and statistics seriously.

We sign Jarrett Jack to to a 1 year deal...that didn't even kill our cap, you have alot of dramatic reaches here for no reason. lol Jarrett Jack? We really MAD about Jarrett Jack?

We are a playoff team and we'll get better. Sorry if you don't want to be patient for this team. I do. Revise your information and see why RJ is a great catalyst for our future. He's a better shooter and defender than you think. Watch the games. Without RJ, we wouldn't be where we are. His development has been excellent and his doubters been wrong.

You're acting like Knicks made bad moves, but they turned out to be in their factor.

Theres a difference in being a pessimistic fan or choosing to be pessimistic when you have little to be pessimistic about.

Lacking sense and in an alternate universe if you were GM of the Knicks, we'll have the most toxic team of all time.

Simmons
Burks
Bullock
Williamson
Porzingis

3 guys who don't even play full seasons, 1 guy with an eating disorder(Zion), 1 guy with a jumpshot disorder(Ben Simmons) and 1 guy with a personality disorder (KP). You seem to favor guys who don't show up to games, don't take their career seriously as they should and clash with teammates as oppose to the opposite.

What's funny is I pushed for KP, Simmons, Williamson. I was a big supporter of them. But anyone can be wrong and I was wrong about them because I didn't know they would have so many personal issues that would get in the way of their career and you failed to highlight that. As a caring and smart GM, you don't trade guys who show up for guys who are cancers for other teams. That's what Isiah Thomas did and if you're Isiah Thomas under a hidey, please reveal your identity now. That dude brought some of the most toxic rosters in NY history and gaslighted our players. It's just bad suggestions, nothing personal. I think majority of NBA fans would agree Simmons for RJ is a bad trade. Most of this forum would agree. Don't mean to magnify you to being the minority on this opinion, but that's where you stand at on this. RJ >>>> Simmons. Simmons has more talent and size, but does nothing with it. He's been the same player since LSU. Doesn't even try to learn a jumpshot.

Don't apology about putting me in the minority... if that the case. Where I stand on RJ is where every Knick Fan should stand. You mention Cancer and I start to mention it in the post you replied too but I said No. So since you bought it up lets talk about it. You Don't Know Cancer, Why!! For several reason.. If you did you would know what starts Cancer? You would know how it spread? None of these things in your comments about I.T. came up. Why?? Again you don't know. Let me give you an example - You bring a new player onto a team and you give him the starting job. Now you give(I said give not EARN) him this job over not 1 vet but 3 vet and 1 with 2 years. Now there is no competition in training camp cause if it was then that player wouldn't be starting. Now what do you think those 4 players are saying to one another? What do you think they are saying to other player on other teams? Long story short... This is your Cancer!! Want to know how I know is because I have seen it as a player and coach. You haven't because if you had you would not be taking the position you are taking about RJ. That is why we aren't going to get a Big name player that you talk about. Look at what Bullock said about leaving. You are a 'Stat' person and they don't know talent. But don't get angry you are in the majority along with the F.O. That is why we are doom to FAILURE!!

metrocard · Nov 16, 2021

RJ was our top 3 pick, he's currently our best two way player....stats or talent, RJ passes the test. He surpassed the bust labels and I'll put money on it in the second half, RJ will average more points than Randle and become the Alpha of this starting 5.

Let's not take Kemba Walker for granted

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