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  1. #1
    Superstar Dark Raider's Avatar
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    Default Burks new starting PG. Walker out!

    Ok, let hear it. This the first time a Knicks head coach has changed the starting lineup on some time. Who decision was it? Thib’s or the F.O.??
    Is this a step in the right direction? By careful how you answer.
    Is there anyone else who should have been benched??

  2. #2
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    I was expecting some change in the starting lineup, thought it was going to be DRose for Kemba or Burks for Fournier. Watching that ATL game, replacing Kemba with Burks gave them more size and D but Burks is no playmaking PG. He can shoot the rock so we don't lose much if anything scoring wise but Kemba is a better ball handler and passer. Nothing set in stone so Kemba could be back in the rotation if this change doesn't improve the record but I expect that it will.

    I'm surprised that from what I read that Kemba will be completely out of the rotation, thought his minutes would be cut but not completely riding the pine.
    Last edited by tiger0330; Nov 29, 2021 at 23:24.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Raider View Post
    Ok, let hear it. This the first time a Knicks head coach has changed the starting lineup on some time. Who decision was it? Thib’s or the F.O.??
    Is this a step in the right direction? By careful how you answer.
    Is there anyone else who should have been benched??
    It was definitely Thibs decision, Kemba has made the Knicks worse on both sides of the ball. When he’s in the game, they allow 116 pts when he’s on the court and 99 when he’s not, they are 27th in offense when he’s playing and 9th when he’s not. Thibs said he’s got to do what’s best for the team. Looks like Thibs will be distributing the playmaking responsibilities among Burks, RJ and JR without Kemba in the lineup.

  4. #4
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    For me the decision is half way surprising half way expected. Walker has been terrible this month. His shooting hardly went over 35%, didn't play much defense and he was just too inconsistent.
    In 12 games he played this month only 5 times he shot over 35%. In five games he shot over 35% only four times he scored 10 points or more. In four games he shot 35% or more and scored 10 points ore more only one was a W.

    He's the worst scorer in the starting lineup (i won't count the centers here for obvious reasons) and most of the times he's being outplayed by DRose & Quickley who are coming off the bench.

    I must say i am a bit surprised with the promotion of Burks but i guess Thibs loves Rose & Quick running with the second unit. Burks on the other hand saved our asses multiple times this season and he's presence on the court had a stronger impact. Unlike Walker, Burks shot 35% or more this month in 9 games. In 9 games he shot 35% or more, seven times he scored 10 points or more. In 7 games he shot 35% or more and scored 10 points or more, three of them were W's. Not to mention he's a better rebounder and commits less TOs.


    I'm wishing all the best to Kemba and hopefully he'll be back soon, it would be such a waste of talent otherwise. I'm now curious if McBride will get some more playtime.
    Keeping an open eye on RJ and Fournier, wouldn't be too surprised to see them demoted too if they continue to struggle.

  5. #5
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    Seems most are surprised as I am on the timing of this move. I wanted to see it through to Xmas, some wanted to give it until the AS game, Knicks don't have a bad record being above .500 but the analytics were
    so bad with Kemba on the floor that Thibs felt he
    had to make the decision now.

    If you think Thibs made the wrong move, just think back to the preseason Wiz game where Beto blew by Kemba time and again causing Clyde to comment Walker can not contain this guy, that game was a harbinger of Kemba bad defense.

  6. #6
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    Let's be honest about this with Walker. He isn't the only problem with this team. A week ago everybody was upset with Randle and now it Walker.

    Where are the ones that was jumping up and down talking about how good it was to sign both Evan and Walker? The only person that was spot on with these signing was Kiya. Again, this isn't just Walker. There should be other that are bench along with Walker but Thib's(if he did it) want do it.

    Did Thib's say, " He did what was best for the team"! Well, I got news for you. If he was doing what was best his starting 5 wouldn't be the players that started the season. How does Knox sit on the bench with RJ and Evan playing. In BB you never know who might have the hot hand tonight. In Thib's world his starter have the hot hand every night, no matter what.

    ** One other very important thing!! As much as I like Burks and Rady you are correct about him saving the Knicks Butts on several occasions this year and last year. Burks is not a PG!! So this magic might last a while but we will be back at this spot very shortly. Then WHAT??

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    Kemba Walker had to call-out Thibs and his funny coaching staff .. And now Kemba is not only taking out the starter lineup, but the team rotation too LMAO

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    Knicks shooting all these silly 3 ball shots while the Bulls are building a 20 pt lead from 2 pt shots SMH
    Then again Randle missed a easy layup, and a easy dunk, having 3 turnovers in 12 min

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    Kemba Walker had to call-out Randle 40 min at PG, and poor defense, plus his buddy RJ Barrett disappearing act on never helping the offense as a team player, plus RJ's 1 quarter of defense each game.
    And now Kemba big mouth has not only been taking out of the Knicks starter lineup, but taking out of the team rotation too LMAO

  10. #10
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    Burks gets burned on defense too. One month isn't a sample size to say Burks is the right decision at PG.
    Knicks are still losing games with Burks at PG.
    2-4 since Burks starting. That's a worst winning % than when Kemba was starting.
    Burks loss vs Indiana, he recorded 0 assist in 30 minutes.

    Elfriid Payton plays fake defense and is an offensive stopper for 80 games and doesn't get benched. Gets destroyed by Trae Young in the playoffs and is now an 11 minute per game player. Thibs is suspect with his rotations. This has been evident since his days coaching Chicago and Minnesota. Our franchise will be another example.

    95% of the point guards in the NBA don't play defense. Quickley/Rose get cooked too, despite their great movement on defense. Kemba wasn't entirely terrible neither. It's more an injury/being isolated from Randle than anything and even with that, he still managed to shoot 41% from 3PT this season and 43% FG while "slumping". Kemba's good games > Burk's good games. There was games we won where Kemba was the deciding factor.

    Worst scorer that was on the starting 5 would be Fournier, not Kemba. Kemba edges Evan in
    42% FG vs 40% FG



    41%3PT vs 38% 3PT

    eFG% 53 vs 52%
    PPGper36 17 vs 16

    Kemba only at 50% health still got to the free throw line more than Fournier who has no injuries and is 100% healthy.

    If anyone was the weakest link, it was Fournier, not Kemba.
    ?

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    Screen Shot 2021-12-11 at 2.37.15 PM.jpg




    Knicks defense has been worse without Kemba. There goes the take that Kemba was "killing" us. SMH

    We went from 19th(108) in the NBA in DRating to 28th. (117)
    ?

  12. #12
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    So what your solution??
    BTW , 19th or 28th neither is good.
    Don’t forget you wanted Walker and Evan.

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    Nobody wanted Kemba or Evan. That’s disingenuous to even suggest.

    Ball was the target for most, or at least wondered if he was worth the contract. CP3 was another pipe dream.

    Most wanted to vomit when they heard Evan signing.

    What was lauded was the fact that they did something and didn’t commit much to anything….

    Perry made the same mistake most make, fail at 1 place, go someplace else, then bring in all the players who helped you fail to begin with….

    If I am the Knicks I am focusing on Dame or Simmons. I am trying to take advantage of the Nets and Philly situation…

    Can I get Dame to add to Randle? Beal? Could I flip Randle and vets for Simmons?

    Simmons
    IQ
    RJ
    Obi
    Mitch

    Or

    Dame
    Evan
    Randle
    And a bunch of free agents….

  14. #14
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    It's a deep stretch to say "nobody" wanted Kemba, when everyone's energy was different before the season started. When Knicks signed him, 95% of the fan base was very down with it, especially considering the bargain. Especially you considering you said this in the off season:


    Quote Originally Posted by mafra View Post

    Kemba and Evan are gonna make people eat some words. Huge upgrades over Payton and Dotson. Like going from a scurrilous scarred seahag to a supermodel.
    Quote Originally Posted by mafra View Post
    Saw this tweet:

    Fun fact: The Kemba Walker/Evan Fournier tandem had a +30.8 net rating last season. The 2nd best 2-man lineup in the entire NBA.

    … lineups featuring both Fournier and Walker sported a +13.9 differential (good for 98th percentile in the league) and 120.2 points per 100 possessions (good for 93rd percentile in the league.)

    Payton and Bullock lineups posted a -3.1 differential (36th percentile) and 107.7 points per 100 possessions (22nd percentile).

    What was most surprising was how the Fournier and Walker lineups performed on the defensive end. They best the Bullock and Payton lineups in every defensive category except for the offense’s free throw rate.

    The only slight hitch in this data is that the strongest Fournier and Walker lineups featured Fournier at the 3 spot, which most Knicks faithful believe is where RJ Barrett will be most effective.

    It will be up to Tom Thibodeau to unlock Fournier’s efficiency at the 2 spot. If he does, it could result in strong play on both ends of the floor.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/dailykn...dable-duo/amp/




    Ball wasn't available. Our front office was split on him. Ball was not coming to NY for this reason:

    https://pippenainteasy.com/2021/08/1...ithout-a-fuss/

    So the Ball talk can die now, because it was never a realistic solution. I personally wanted Ball, because unlike Ben Simmons, he improved his jumpshot and is a reliable shooter, while playing both ends. Thus why Chicago is a top team in the East.

    So what are you guys saying exactly? You don't have solutions but yet want to act no Knick fan on earth wanted Kemba. Theres been Kemba trade suggestions to the Knicks for over 10 years. Kemba has made the all star team more EVERY player on this roster. More than Rose and more than Randle. Even with his injuries, he's better than a good majority of PG's in the NBA.

    Running Simmons/Robinson together is liability. Simmons refuses to shoot. Then, you have RJ who already dribbles into traffic. What sense does that make?

    Simmons has been of the worst performers in crunch time and in the playoffs. He doesn't fit with most teams because he's been the same player since his ROOKIE season. Dude is a diva and lockerroom cancer, despite his immense talent.

    Lillard isn't coming to New York, and even if he does....why does he downgrade from McCollum to Julius Randle? If Lillard can't win in Portland, why would he downgrade to the Knicks? These unrealistic trade suggestions don't say anything but show how quickly Portland would hang up the phone on us. Lillard isn't going to NY. Literally reyling Stephen A Smith as a resource will only lead to disappointment. Even if Lillard does come to NY, we won't contend. Just a treadmill with a PG who will be 34 years old in 3 seasons. Let it go.

    Simmons is detrimental. Fans being completely delusional thinking he's the solution to our problems because our defense is bad.

    “Ben Simmons was never a great player. We THOUGHT he was a great player – coming out of high school, one-and-done at LSU, ‘oh my gosh, maybe he’s a Lamar Odom/Magic Johnson kind of player!’ Well, he’s not that. I think he would be better served to play the role of a Draymond Green. Draymond Green plays defense, he can hit a couple of timely shots, he rebounds, he leads the team in assists, but you don’t expect him to be your go-to guy. Ben Simmons is really a third or fourth option on a really good team. The expectation level is so high for him and now there is almost a sadness where you feel sorry for him. Markelle Fultz forgot how to shoot and had to leave Philadelphia and went to Orlando and sort of revitalized a career there. He needs to go to a team who doesn’t have great expectations and that you don’t expect them to win, therefore he can kind of figure out who he is as a player, because I don’t know if he knows… It's almost looks like he’s a right-handed player who is learning to shoot left-handed.” - Dan Patrick

    "Last night was absolutely abysmal. Not only we lost the series, but we choked leads, and he avoided the ball in the 4th quarter every game. I've never seen a play so scared to want the ball in my entire life. He needs to go. I know Doc, Embiid, and others guys get some blame too but he gets most of it. I tried to defend him as a Sixers fan but we have suffered enough pain over the years. He has to go. Im done" - an actual Philly fan who watches Simmons games for 7+ seasons.

    So....this is enough to say that a Simmons trade suggestion is completely lacking awareness of the Simmons situation. Philly fans gave up on Simmons long ago. Knick fans who don't even watch Simmons put trade suggestions because they saw trade rumors. Simmons isn't the solution. Philly tried building around him for a longer time. Knicks don't have the roster, nor Simmons is the player worth his salary. His attitude doesn't fit in NY. He's a diva.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Raider View Post
    So what your solution??
    BTW , 19th or 28th neither is good.
    Don’t forget you wanted Walker and Evan.
    Kemba I wanted.
    Fournier I didn't care about but understood he was a superior shooter to Bullock who was really a scrub and overrated. He's currently shooting 35% FG and 25% 3PT.

    There is no instant fix solution with the Knicks.

    Our problems start at the top, not with guys who played 18 games this season.

    We've had Randle/Thibs at the realm for how long? 3 season, am I correct?

    Thibs has a history of draining his players and never amounted to anything besides being a treadmill team.

    Thibs isn't the "coach" to lead us anything beyond a first round exist.

    Randle isn't that "guy", he had a fluke season and it was proven in the playoffs when he shot 29% FG against the Atlanta Hawks.

    dump them both. Knicks given it 3 years and we don't even look like a top 10 team in the East. Houston Rockets play 2X better than us and got a superior coach, they were projected to finish last. Randle at best is a 3rd/4th option. Thibs at best is an assistant coach.


    This will open more playing time for Toppin, McBride and Grimes, who Thibs refuses to play.

    Keep Gibson who's a true professional and has intangibles that Randle lacks.

    I feel like you come to these threads just asking questions but never giving solutions yourself, if you want to understand better, please watch this video.






    If you're not going to watch it, no point of replying. I want you guys to know at deep glance what our problems are. It was never Kemba and it's a dramatic reach to assume it was. We got worse on defense without him, (28th is terrible because atleast at 19th, you can get enough offense to compete, you can't win games being 28th in defense). Our defense issues never started or ended with Kemba. Randle got exposed in the playoffs on both ends, and he isn't the alpha he was signed to be. That's just facts.
    Last edited by rady; Dec 16, 2021 at 15:31.
    ?

  15. #15
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    Two names I know you don’t see… Kiya and Dark Raider. Kiya was the most vocal voice to say this isn’t a good move.
    And he was correct!!
    You trying to wash your hands of all blame for wanting Walker.
    Not all of a sudden it Thib’s and Randle who are the problems. Well, they didn’t just become a problem. There are other problems like the F.O. and that #3 pick that you are now not mentioning as much but you want him to be a part of the future. Guess what Sherlock…. He is as much a part of the problem as all those I mention and you fail to mention.

    Stat’s can’t correct these problems… only people who know and understand BB and talent.

    As for me asking questions… we’ll that so I can understand you and what you see as the concerns for the Knicks. If you read what I post there are many ideas and suggestions that I post. I have called this team a Frankenstein team made up of body part(players) from different teams. You have to destroy the doctor as well as the monster. In other words, everybody got to go from L. Rose to RJ.
    I spoke directly to you about the cancer that exist within this organization. What did you do… turn and ran!! You talk a good game but when the heat is on you are like RJ… missing shots!!
    Last edited by Dark Raider; Dec 12, 2021 at 15:02.

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