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  1. #1
    12th man metrocard's Avatar
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    Default Randle should never wear a Knicks uniform again.

    1558 minutes played.
    40% FG
    29% 3PT
    3.4 Turnovers Per Game
    1.8 offensive rebounds per game with a 280lb body.
    The worst defender at his position.
    Slows down the pace offensively for the Knicks.



    Randle is easily the worst contract in the NBA.
    The combo of him and Thibs will result is ultimate doom.Randle is the worst rotation player in the league right now. His body language and effort both are low tier.

    Nate McMillan showed the NBA how to make sure Julius never gets into a rhythm and how to keep him off-balance.
    The minute Randle begins to attack the basket, throw a double his way and try to cut off passing lanes. Now, if you watch, teams are deciding to double or not. When Julius knows he will be doubled a lot, he gets into distribution mode and plays well. However, that still doesn't allow him to get into a scoring rhythm. Teams are allowing him to get into a passing rhythm and letting our other players try to beat us. Also, they can create turnovers this way. If Julius isn't being doubled, he struggles even harder because now his teammates don't move without the ball and just watch Julius make a move.

    No one but Mitch gets to the glass either. You just have 3 guys on the perimeter, Mitch staying close to the paint so he doesn't get called for it, and Julius at this point feels that he has to make a shot. With not being in rhythm and teammates being inconsistent in hitting shots, Julius is in a bad place in terms of what decision to make.




    In this game, Jose Alvarado and Josh Hart shut down Julius Randle defensively. Pelicans didn't even need to send their bigs on him. Randle shut us out on both ends.




    How can you throw all the load on RJ who carries us on the court and off the court(only one who shows up to press conferences) and expect that your contract is justified? Randle isn't a vocal leader or stands up for our team.

    There were people on this forum trashing RJ...It's been 7 straight games in which our supposed best player and "leader" has not sat down and talked to the media after a game. But our 21 year old has sat & taken accountability every time. Sit there like a man and take the punches from Berman and media. Randle is a lame and those who gave up on RJ will always be wrong but RJ has carried the load for this team on and off the court.

    When Hawks was giving us that work in the playoffs., Randle didn't even flinch or showed anger. He has fake pride in NY and is just happy he fugazied his way to securing a long term contract because Knicks were desperate and lacking in talent. Julius is the ultimate fail...comeback player of the year was the ultimate grab when he wasn't even top 3 on the team.

    Where is the supposed leader Julius Randle? Why does RJ have to be thrown to the wolves after every loss and not him?

    The worst contract in the league.

    23.7 million in 2022-23
    25.6 million in 2023-24
    27.5 million in 2024-25
    29.4 million in 2025-26 (player option)

    Randle basically cripples our franchise not only for 2022, but until 2026.
    Last edited by metrocard; Jan 21, 2022 at 08:02.
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  2. #2
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    I appreciate the work that went into this, but too much hyperbole.

    Randle is not the worst contract in the NBA when there are other players making more per year than him that aren’t even playing.

    Randle is not the worst rotation player on this team, let alone the worst rotation player in the NBA.

    This obsession with blaming everything on the coach or one player night after night blows my mind.

    This Knick fan culture of Randle vs RJ is toxic. It makes no sense when our entire roster has major issues as a whole.

    That said, both Randle and RJ need to be better. They are part of the problem right now, but so is pretty much everything else surrounding this team at the moment, including the fans and booing our guys game after game.

  3. #3
    12th man metrocard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htr10 View Post
    Randle is not the worst contract in the NBA when there are other players making more per year than him that aren’t even playing.
    Meaningless.

    Simmons playing 0 games still has more value than Randle.

    There is no logic behind the notion you can acquire more value for Randle than a guy who plays no games. Irving/Simmons will always get you more and this is just facts based on two things: They're superior players and don't have a player option that last till 2026. Simmons contract ends in 2025 and is younger than Randle.

    There isn't an argument out there that debunks Randle isn't the worst big contract. The length and little value is provides is all evident in the first post.

    For example John Wall is a massive contract it expires shortly. Randle does not. This is why your argument fails about Randle not being the worst because anyone you list, they have a positive (either expiring or they're superior players to Randle), it will be consistent with any player you name, thus a take that has no truth. Kevin Love's expires in 2023-24, Cleveland wouldn't even care to trade for Randle, they're already a playoff team. Randle's trade value also takes a hit because 99% of NBA teams don't need him. Even bottom teams that end up beating us. The Randle is something you can't have a valid argument for because NBA franchises already improved, and Randle's game regressed completely. Starting him is a liability, atleast with Tim Hardaway Jr, he knows his role off the bench despite being overpaid and again it expires before 2025. Randle's contract does not, he has a player option.

    If you can't see how Randle's contract cripple our franchise, then you need 2-3 more seasons of Randle to finally accept the facts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by metrocard View Post
    Meaningless.

    Simmons playing 0 games still has more value than Randle.

    There is no logic behind the notion you can acquire more value for Randle than a guy who plays no games. Irving/Simmons will always get you more and this is just facts based on two things: They're superior players and don't have a player option that last till 2026. Simmons contract ends in 2025 and is younger than Randle.

    There isn't an argument out there that debunks Randle isn't the worst big contract. The length and little value is provides is all evident in the first post.

    For example John Wall is a massive contract it expires shortly. Randle does not. This is why your argument fails about Randle not being the worst because anyone you list, they have a positive (either expiring or they're superior players to Randle), it will be consistent with any player you name, thus a take that has no truth. Kevin Love's expires in 2023-24, Cleveland wouldn't even care to trade for Randle, they're already a playoff team. Randle's trade value also takes a hit because 99% of NBA teams don't need him. Even bottom teams that end up beating us. The Randle is something you can't have a valid argument for because NBA franchises already improved, and Randle's game regressed completely. Starting him is a liability, atleast with Tim Hardaway Jr, he knows his role off the bench despite being overpaid and again it expires before 2025. Randle's contract does not, he has a player option.

    If you can't see how Randle's contract cripple our franchise, then you need 2-3 more seasons of Randle to finally accept the facts.

    LOVED Randles tenacity last season. Once we watched him in the playoffs it was no brainer not to sign him.

  5. #5
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    I’ll be disappointed if he’s not dealt before next season. If not, he’s in year 3 of a 4 year deal, which means he’s an expir BG contract the following season.

    His contract won’t stunt the growth of RJ-Mitch-Grimes and the youth movement….

    At the very least, they hover around 35-45 wins next 2 seasons. It’s not end of world, bc it seems like he’s a team guy and is coachable.

    I am really hopeful they can flip Randle for an asset, with specially a PG. If Leon Rose cannot flip Randle, then he’s not good at his job. As a third option, for a team with a real PG, he might be one of the better options available…. Maybe PHI decides they’ll take JR for BS!

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    Metrocard, I understand what you are saying and appreciate that you are posting detailed, well thought out posts on here.

    I just don’t agree about Randle. He has bad games, but when I watch him play well, pushing for triple doubles, I just don’t see how he is as bad as you are saying.

    26 to 32 million per year over the next 4 years for a team that never attracts any big free agents just doesn’t seem as big a deal as you are making it sound. We had huge cap space in recent offseasons and literally couldn’t get anyone of note to take it, which is how we ended up with Randle to begin with.
    Last edited by htr10; Jan 21, 2022 at 13:10.

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    I’m defending Randle in one thread, RJ in a different thread, and Thibs in another. Man, I miss the good old days last year where I was just defending Obi.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by htr10 View Post
    I appreciate the work that went into this, but too much hyperbole.

    Randle is not the worst contract in the NBA when there are other players making more per year than him that aren’t even playing.

    Randle is not the worst rotation player on this team, let alone the worst rotation player in the NBA.

    This obsession with blaming everything on the coach or one player night after night blows my mind.

    This Knick fan culture of Randle vs RJ is toxic. It makes no sense when our entire roster has major issues as a whole.

    That said, both Randle and RJ need to be better. They are part of the problem right now, but so is pretty much everything else surrounding this team at the moment, including the fans and booing our guys game after game.
    Hey HTR. We don’t agree on much but you a 100% correct on this one. Trying to change the narrative from the real problems. A guy who gets the most improved player of the year award.
    If he’s the problem then what are those other??

  9. #9
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    This Thread is an attempt to turn the light off of the true problem. Nothing more... Most know what the real trouble is on this team and it ain't Randle.

    Julius Randle is not the problem with the Knicks. He has been placed in a situation that he isn't fit for as a lead player. This was very obvious when he was with N.O. and had a couple of good years with A.D. and Cousins.

    I have said many times that where do you find a double/double player. They ain't walking the street!!

    Place Randle in the same or similar situation like he was in N.O. That formula seems to work well for the team and him. That wasn't done with Knicks when setting up an offensive scheme to fit him.

    Put let be CLEAR!! Julius Randle was never, repeat NEVER supposed to be the leader focal point of the offensive. The player the offensive was supposed to be running it was RJ.
    *Remember the disaster at PG?? Why do you think he was at the point? This was supposed to be his team and his offensive.
    *HOUSTON... we have a problem!! RJ can't handle the PG position and not needs to be move to the SG immediately.
    *We all know how that year went with the Knicks.
    *Randle took the off year and refine his game and became the focal point of the offensive. NOW THIS.... HE EARNED IT!! It was given to him.
    These are facts!!

    BTW, isn't Russell Westbrook the worst contract to try to trade? Hear or read that somewhere.

  10. #10
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    Great Thread & Video Metro .. It's a shame so many Knicks forums has Threads on Randle being traded before Feb deadline. GM Perry got a lot of PROPS last season from the Knicks above FO, for the success of Thibs, Randle, and the team record. Leon Rose forgot there weren't any fans in the stadium during the NBA 2020-21 regular season, when he gave out awards. Giving Randle an extension in the offseason was stupid after Randle 2nd season on a 4 yr contract. In Randle's 3rd season, and 2nd All-Star appearance would've been the wise time to give Randle an extension.

    The video of Randle tells a lot of things, Randle catching and passing without dribbling, and moving without the ball are a positive in Randle's performance.
    The Big negative on Randle offense performance are the dribble-dribble-dribble giving opponents defense time to double him quickly, which leads to turnovers.
    Plus when Randle does his dribble-dribble on consecutive offensive-possession, Randle's teammates become unaware of what Randle are gonna do offense so they stand like statue watching and waiting for a pass, or to see if this is one of Randle's 20 or more shot attempts a game. It's all good if the shot goes in on consecutive possession, but missing consecutively in all 4 quarters .. YEAH! Some fan in MSG are going to call u out !!!
    A Tired Randle are no good in the final 6 minute of a Knicks game.
    When Randle's tired he'll give the Knicks one or maybe two good plays, along with 3 to 5 bad plays within those final 6 minute of the game.
    After the Knicks postseason performance coach Thibs should've been hard on Randle & Barrett to improve their passing skills in the starter lineup the first day of training-camp. Knowing ur adding two new scorers to the starter lineup, and not doing anything about how the starter lineup share the ball on offensive possessions are cruel.

    Randle should have been averaging 28 to 30 minute per game this season.
    There's NO reason for Randle to play the entire first quarter, plus the entire 3rd quarter in every game, against good & bad opponents .. It makes Fans and teammates SICK!

    The negative on Randle defense performance has been the first 3 quarters of a Knicks game Randle perform with no effort on defense. And Randle's 4th quarter defense when he do apply effort he's to tired to give it 100%.

    I did not understand why no one in KO wanted to comment on coach Thibs playing Randle, Barrett, and Fournier for 30 or more minute throughout the Preseason games?
    Plus playing Kemba the same minutes he played Payton last season?

    The Knicks preseason performance showed me Thibs were not prepared to coach at the start of the NBA 2021-22 season. Plus the way things has been turning out after half a season, I believe coach Thibs wasn't happy about any of the new players added to the Knicks roster in the offseason.

  11. #11
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    Who is the Knicks biggest problem on the roster?
    Head coach Thibs !!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by htr10 View Post
    Metrocard, I understand what you are saying and appreciate that you are posting detailed, well thought out posts on here.

    I just don’t agree about Randle. He has bad games, but when I watch him play well, pushing for triple doubles, I just don’t see how he is as bad as you are saying.

    26 to 32 million per year over the next 4 years for a team that never attracts any big free agents just doesn’t seem as big a deal as you are making it sound. We had huge cap space in recent offseasons and literally couldn’t get anyone of note to take it, which is how we ended up with Randle to begin with.
    It's a bad deal for us because:

    Randle's defense is below average, we're paying 26-30 million annually when we should pay that money to a two way player. I rather keep cap space than waste on a player who will be exposed on defense and offense can get as cold as anyone. I never seen any argument here that Randle is worth that money, even in his MIP season, Randle was a slack on defense and settled for too many perimeter shots.


    When Randle was on the Knicks on a short term contract and we had a little something going. (I think this is where most who support Randle come from, hoping things we would be the same)
    After Randle resigned, we completely got ourselves into a different scenario.

    4 years is a long time, Randle already plays passed his physical prime, he slows down pace and doesn't contribute on defense. Give that 30 minutes a season for the 4 years, do we expect to even contend? We made the playoffs last year, but Randle was legitimately the worst player during the playoffs. We can't remember a Knick who had a worst performance, not even Starks.


    I only see Randle's contract worth it if he's hitting 40% from 3PT and playing defense and boxing out.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by htr10 View Post
    I’m defending Randle in one thread, RJ in a different thread, and Thibs in another. Man, I miss the good old days last year where I was just defending Obi.
    RJ has been the leader of this team at the young age of 21...those who slander RJ are just looking for something to post.

    The blame should go to Thibs how he handled the rotations this season, overplaying Randle and gasing him out 20 games into the season. Also it's hard to defend Thibs when you was defending Obi and Thibs doesn't even play Obi and let him even develop a role on the team.


    I believe the sooner we gut Randle, Toppin can implode and turn into a contributing starter on both ends, with less usage than Randle so we can see our guards get more involved and RJ be the 22 ppg player he can be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiyaman View Post
    Great Thread & Video Metro .. It's a shame so many Knicks forums has Threads on Randle being traded before Feb deadline. GM Perry got a lot of PROPS last season from the Knicks above FO, for the success of Thibs, Randle, and the team record. Leon Rose forgot there weren't any fans in the stadium during the NBA 2020-21 regular season, when he gave out awards. Giving Randle an extension in the offseason was stupid after Randle 2nd season on a 4 yr contract. In Randle's 3rd season, and 2nd All-Star appearance would've been the wise time to give Randle an extension.

    The video of Randle tells a lot of things, Randle catching and passing without dribbling, and moving without the ball are a positive in Randle's performance.
    The Big negative on Randle offense performance are the dribble-dribble-dribble giving opponents defense time to double him quickly, which leads to turnovers.
    Plus when Randle does his dribble-dribble on consecutive offensive-possession, Randle's teammates become unaware of what Randle are gonna do offense so they stand like statue watching and waiting for a pass, or to see if this is one of Randle's 20 or more shot attempts a game. It's all good if the shot goes in on consecutive possession, but missing consecutively in all 4 quarters .. YEAH! Some fan in MSG are going to call u out !!!
    A Tired Randle are no good in the final 6 minute of a Knicks game.
    When Randle's tired he'll give the Knicks one or maybe two good plays, along with 3 to 5 bad plays within those final 6 minute of the game.
    After the Knicks postseason performance coach Thibs should've been hard on Randle & Barrett to improve their passing skills in the starter lineup the first day of training-camp. Knowing ur adding two new scorers to the starter lineup, and not doing anything about how the starter lineup share the ball on offensive possessions are cruel.

    Randle should have been averaging 28 to 30 minute per game this season.
    There's NO reason for Randle to play the entire first quarter, plus the entire 3rd quarter in every game, against good & bad opponents .. It makes Fans and teammates SICK!

    The negative on Randle defense performance has been the first 3 quarters of a Knicks game Randle perform with no effort on defense. And Randle's 4th quarter defense when he do apply effort he's to tired to give it 100%.

    I did not understand why no one in KO wanted to comment on coach Thibs playing Randle, Barrett, and Fournier for 30 or more minute throughout the Preseason games?
    Plus playing Kemba the same minutes he played Payton last season?

    The Knicks preseason performance showed me Thibs were not prepared to coach at the start of the NBA 2021-22 season. Plus the way things has been turning out after half a season, I believe coach Thibs wasn't happy about any of the new players added to the Knicks roster in the offseason.
    Exactly.

    Even when Randle plays well, it's at the expense of our pace and defense.
    Teams have improved this season and Nate McMillain exposed the Knicks so anytime who plays us will play us like how the Hawks did and every time we get exposed.


    Randle's playoff performance and how he plays in the fourth quarter is enough to believe he isn't the fit. How he handle fans and the press in NY...he's not built for this. He's the core of our problems based on his contract will be harder to move than we want to believe (btw Westbrook contract expires waaaaay earlier than Randle, expiring contract > soft fat guy who doesn't play defense and turn the ball over. This goes for John Wall too, so my point still stands that Randle is the worst contract in the NBA.) You got a bad player for 4 years + a player option. Lakers and Rockets can trade Westbrook or Wall to a team that needs an expiring contract for cap space. Randle's doesn't expire anytime soon, so no one on this forum can find me a worse contract than his.
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    RJ isn't leadership material!! Let me say it again, RJ isn't leadership material!!

    First of all, you need to know what a leader is when it comes to BB. There things that are seen and unseen by the naked eye.
    I have stated those things several times. Example... No one looks at RJ when they come off court when a time out is called when the team and made a run at them.
    When one your teammate is having a bad time the leader step up with words of encouragement. Example... remember when DSJ was 'Booed' off the floor for Frank. The only two players that did any to console DSJ was Frank(by reaching his hand out to him when he came off the court) and by a True leader who got out of his seat and when down at the far end of the bench and talk with DSJ. That player was Dotson.

    Those are just a few things that comprise leadership.

    It is not in RJ DNA to be a leader. You can give Starting Positions, You can give 3 different positions in 3 years, You can give 40minutes a game(for what I don't know), You can give more shoots in a game than any other player..... But you can't make a leader if it isn't in them.

    BTW, Leadership is Earned!! not Given!!

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