Utah / NYK enter D-Mitch trade talks
- Thread starter mafra
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Who's going after Jazz winning head coach Snyder ???
The only way I would give Ainge a couple or more first round draft picks, he has to take Fourniers contract too.
However, having Brunson & Mitchell as a tandem in the back-court, plus a defensive center MitchRob in the paint blocking inside shots (like Gobert) are the start to a winning chemistry in MSG .. that's 3 winners in the lineup. The 4th player to add to the lineup the Knicks don't have!
Our missing piece player to the Knicks new backcourt of Brunson & Mitchell ???
Should be a winning player having the skills of Suns Mikal Bridges style, or the 76ers Tucker 2-Way hustle, or even Mavs Bullocks hustle performance.
The Knicks (FO & Coach) would probably destroy a good back court of Brunson & Mitchell by adding to the lineup .. Barrett's on & off defense performance, or Fournier's weak defense performance, or Cam's clueless defense performance. Having Randle or Obi Toppin high scoring performance plus their weak defense at PF in the lineup.
Struggling to stay at .500 season (having Donovan Mitchell) !!!
The only way I would give Ainge a couple or more first round draft picks, he has to take Fourniers contract too.
However, having Brunson & Mitchell as a tandem in the back-court, plus a defensive center MitchRob in the paint blocking inside shots (like Gobert) are the start to a winning chemistry in MSG .. that's 3 winners in the lineup. The 4th player to add to the lineup the Knicks don't have!
Our missing piece player to the Knicks new backcourt of Brunson & Mitchell ???
Should be a winning player having the skills of Suns Mikal Bridges style, or the 76ers Tucker 2-Way hustle, or even Mavs Bullocks hustle performance.
The Knicks (FO & Coach) would probably destroy a good back court of Brunson & Mitchell by adding to the lineup .. Barrett's on & off defense performance, or Fournier's weak defense performance, or Cam's clueless defense performance. Having Randle or Obi Toppin high scoring performance plus their weak defense at PF in the lineup.
Struggling to stay at .500 season (having Donovan Mitchell) !!!
I think we?re getting played by the media again.
Reportedly we?re ?clear favorites? to land Donovan Mitchell.
Just like we were going to sign Kevin Durant?
I?m not going to hold my breath here.
That said, Grimes and 4 1st round picks is fine with me. Our franchise drafts like garbage anyway and we have a boatload of 1st round picks.
Reportedly we?re ?clear favorites? to land Donovan Mitchell.
Just like we were going to sign Kevin Durant?
I?m not going to hold my breath here.
That said, Grimes and 4 1st round picks is fine with me. Our franchise drafts like garbage anyway and we have a boatload of 1st round picks.
mafra
Legend
donchris
Next season, keep waiting
I'm not sold on D. Mitchell at all. How much better does he make the Knicks? 5 games, 6 maybe? Not sure that's worth mortgaging the future. If Utah is willing to take a boatload of picks, Evan F. that's worth a talk. Recent report indicates that Utah wants Quentin Grimes, picks and probably Obi Toppin. That might be worth it. Just sucks that we never got to see what Obi and Grimes can do before we ship them out.
Also we're stuck w Julius if Obi is traded, which I'm not worried about if he stays in the paint.
Also we're stuck w Julius if Obi is traded, which I'm not worried about if he stays in the paint.
mafra
Legend
I heard a stat, where Utah was +10 per 100 possessions with Rudy G on the floor and no DM? they were +7.5 with both of them on the floor and just +0.5 with only DM (no Rudy) on the court.
Rudy?s defense was the true difference maker, apparently, for the Jazz.
Mitchell is a 25-yr-old, multiple all star, 6?1? scoring dynamo. Arguably a top 3 SG in the NBA.
Knicks have Rudy G clone in Mitchell Robinson, so that?s a good thing. M-Rob should help cover for DM?s defensive mistakes?.& DM should be able to feed MRob alley-oops and help him offensively.
DM isn?t a finished product either. I am
Not making this comparison, but I recall
Vividly defending MJ ala 1989-1990? BOS fans saying he ain?t Bird and can?t win in playoffs.
The kid can evolve and improve. Utah Jazz handed him the keys early and he ran with it.
Leon Rose and Thibbs need to explain to DM that he needs to play off the ball more and be more involved defensively.
DM makes team much better, obviously.
Kemba and Fournier were awful defensive pair? Jalen and Donovan are very good offensive players?
If Knicks can get DM without surrendering RJ, Randle , and IQ? only surrendering Obi or Grimes?. That?s a steal! If they have to give them both? you still make the deal.
The line is drawn when they start asking for size ? RJ and Simms.
It appears Grimes is the piece Utah covers. Good. Obi close to second contract, so I imagine he?s not that attractive?. We shall see?
Jalen, Mitch, RJ, Randle, Robinson
With Rose, Obi, IQ, Simms off bench?
That?s a good start.
Maybe next summer? the final piece demands to join them?
Rudy?s defense was the true difference maker, apparently, for the Jazz.
Mitchell is a 25-yr-old, multiple all star, 6?1? scoring dynamo. Arguably a top 3 SG in the NBA.
Knicks have Rudy G clone in Mitchell Robinson, so that?s a good thing. M-Rob should help cover for DM?s defensive mistakes?.& DM should be able to feed MRob alley-oops and help him offensively.
DM isn?t a finished product either. I am
Not making this comparison, but I recall
Vividly defending MJ ala 1989-1990? BOS fans saying he ain?t Bird and can?t win in playoffs.
The kid can evolve and improve. Utah Jazz handed him the keys early and he ran with it.
Leon Rose and Thibbs need to explain to DM that he needs to play off the ball more and be more involved defensively.
DM makes team much better, obviously.
Kemba and Fournier were awful defensive pair? Jalen and Donovan are very good offensive players?
If Knicks can get DM without surrendering RJ, Randle , and IQ? only surrendering Obi or Grimes?. That?s a steal! If they have to give them both? you still make the deal.
The line is drawn when they start asking for size ? RJ and Simms.
It appears Grimes is the piece Utah covers. Good. Obi close to second contract, so I imagine he?s not that attractive?. We shall see?
Jalen, Mitch, RJ, Randle, Robinson
With Rose, Obi, IQ, Simms off bench?
That?s a good start.
Maybe next summer? the final piece demands to join them?
I know I just said this about signing Jalen Brunson and it ended up being real, but I?m just going to assume we are being messed with as Knicks fans by the media about us trading for Donovan Mitchell until it happens.
For anyone who is against trading for Mitchell, he is a bonafide star just entering his prime. By no right should any team be looking to trade him, of course the price is going to be crazy.
This is what teams like the Lakers do though. Be aggressive. Get what you can get. If your front office is any good, assets can always be reaccumulated. The teams with lots of cap space and lots of future picks are the teams that are going to be bad that next season, not good.
For anyone who is against trading for Mitchell, he is a bonafide star just entering his prime. By no right should any team be looking to trade him, of course the price is going to be crazy.
This is what teams like the Lakers do though. Be aggressive. Get what you can get. If your front office is any good, assets can always be reaccumulated. The teams with lots of cap space and lots of future picks are the teams that are going to be bad that next season, not good.
There is a great chance that the New York Knicks can pull off a blockbuster trade for three-time All-Star guard Donovan Mitchell without losing RJ Barrett.
But it doesn?t mean that the price isn?t steep.
The Jazz reportedly asked for a historic haul ? a combination of the Knicks? other young pieces, the majority of the eight first-round picks that New York can trade and pick swaps.
With their eyes reportedly set on Quentin Grimes, ?the Jazz asked for some combination of youngsters Grimes, Immanuel Quickley, Obi Toppin, Miles McBride, and Cam Reddish,? according to The Salt Lake Tribune.
While over two dozen executives polled by Bleacher Report?s Jake Fischer in the Las Vegas Summer League resulted in Barrett as a better trade chip than Miami Heat?s Tyler Herro, one member of the Jazz organization reportedly prefers the reigning Sixth Man of the Year as a return for Mitchell.
Some believed a deal could have been completed as early as last Tuesday, but the Knicks have been haggling, wary of gutting out their young core and coughing up more draft capital. They reportedly made a significant counter-offer ?that included a smaller number of those [trade] pieces.?
On top of the combination of the young players, one of the veterans left on the Knicks roster must also be included to match Mitchell?s $30.3 million salary for next season.
The Jazz are reportedly not interested in Julius Randle, meaning Evan Fournier or Derrick Rose would be included to complete the deal.
It is just a matter of who blinks first in this high-stakes stare-down, as the expectation around the league is that the Knicks and Jazz will reach a compromise at some point.
The likelihood of the Knicks pulling off the trade increased after the Indiana Pacers tendered a maximum offer sheet to Phoenix Suns? restricted free-agent center DeAndre Ayton.
Ayton will no longer be eligible to be sign-and-traded once he signs the offer sheet with Indiana. If Phoenix matches, Ayton will have veto power on any trade, and he will only be trade-eligible by Jan. 15 and cannot be shipped to Indiana for a year.
The wild four-team trade scenario that could land Mitchell in Brooklyn as part of a mega-blockbuster trade centered on Kevin Durant going to Phoenix with Myles Turner and Ben Simmons heading to Utah is now tougher to pull off without Ayton.
Unless the Heat can rope in a third team to supply the historic haul of draft picks that the Jazz covet, the Knicks can leverage that they are the only team capable of meeting Utah?s demands.
But it doesn?t mean that the price isn?t steep.
The Jazz reportedly asked for a historic haul ? a combination of the Knicks? other young pieces, the majority of the eight first-round picks that New York can trade and pick swaps.
With their eyes reportedly set on Quentin Grimes, ?the Jazz asked for some combination of youngsters Grimes, Immanuel Quickley, Obi Toppin, Miles McBride, and Cam Reddish,? according to The Salt Lake Tribune.
While over two dozen executives polled by Bleacher Report?s Jake Fischer in the Las Vegas Summer League resulted in Barrett as a better trade chip than Miami Heat?s Tyler Herro, one member of the Jazz organization reportedly prefers the reigning Sixth Man of the Year as a return for Mitchell.
Some believed a deal could have been completed as early as last Tuesday, but the Knicks have been haggling, wary of gutting out their young core and coughing up more draft capital. They reportedly made a significant counter-offer ?that included a smaller number of those [trade] pieces.?
On top of the combination of the young players, one of the veterans left on the Knicks roster must also be included to match Mitchell?s $30.3 million salary for next season.
The Jazz are reportedly not interested in Julius Randle, meaning Evan Fournier or Derrick Rose would be included to complete the deal.
It is just a matter of who blinks first in this high-stakes stare-down, as the expectation around the league is that the Knicks and Jazz will reach a compromise at some point.
The likelihood of the Knicks pulling off the trade increased after the Indiana Pacers tendered a maximum offer sheet to Phoenix Suns? restricted free-agent center DeAndre Ayton.
Ayton will no longer be eligible to be sign-and-traded once he signs the offer sheet with Indiana. If Phoenix matches, Ayton will have veto power on any trade, and he will only be trade-eligible by Jan. 15 and cannot be shipped to Indiana for a year.
The wild four-team trade scenario that could land Mitchell in Brooklyn as part of a mega-blockbuster trade centered on Kevin Durant going to Phoenix with Myles Turner and Ben Simmons heading to Utah is now tougher to pull off without Ayton.
Unless the Heat can rope in a third team to supply the historic haul of draft picks that the Jazz covet, the Knicks can leverage that they are the only team capable of meeting Utah?s demands.
mafra
Legend
Sounds like deal could eventually land about 3 of those players and 3-4 picks. Knicks almost bidding against themselves?.
Will Utah take Evan?s contract (probably cost another pick).
Knicks get to keep Cam? Will IQ and/or Obi be the dealbreakers?
Grimes and McBride and 3 first rounders? that?s the start of the deal?
Leon Rose vs Danny Ainge. Here we go?.
Will Utah take Evan?s contract (probably cost another pick).
Knicks get to keep Cam? Will IQ and/or Obi be the dealbreakers?
Grimes and McBride and 3 first rounders? that?s the start of the deal?
Leon Rose vs Danny Ainge. Here we go?.
donchris
Next season, keep waiting
How about the Knicks present a counteroffer of Julius Randal for 3 of Utah's draft picks and tell them Ange to go F'k himself! The media is completely wrong about this. They all seem to salivate on the Knicks dumping everything for one player just to turn on the team when this inevitably doesn't work out and equate to playoff wins.
mafra
Legend
Donovan Mitchell has made playoffs every year, a 3 time All Star, I believe? and he?s just 25?
Brunson and Mitchell best backcourt since Starks and Harper.
I get it? don?t go all-in Melo on the undersized SG?.
But giving up 3 of the following 4: Grimes, IQ, McBride, and Obi isn?t crazy.
3 draft picks? 4? 5? Where do you draw the line? I do it at 4 (if they take 3 players and 5 if they take 2)
McBride is gone.
So, it?s either Grimes or Obi/IQ, if I am GM?.
Ainge not taking Randle? he wants cheap, young players?
This is why I think deal settles at Grimes, McBride and 5 first rounders? or Leon should walk away.
I would hold line at IQ, Obi, McBride and 4 first rounders. I prefer to keep Grimes (defense)?. Although IQ/OBi could make second unit lethal.
Sure, play the kids all season. Hope for another top 5 pick? that?s another route.
But at least this is something you can control. If you can get D Mitch for Grimes and McBride and 5 first rounders? do it. Knicks are young and loaded with talent then and free agents will come.
Not going to break you not selecting 23rd.
They?ve been bad for 2 decades? it?s time to start making runs at ECF.
Brunson and Mitchell best backcourt since Starks and Harper.
I get it? don?t go all-in Melo on the undersized SG?.
But giving up 3 of the following 4: Grimes, IQ, McBride, and Obi isn?t crazy.
3 draft picks? 4? 5? Where do you draw the line? I do it at 4 (if they take 3 players and 5 if they take 2)
McBride is gone.
So, it?s either Grimes or Obi/IQ, if I am GM?.
Ainge not taking Randle? he wants cheap, young players?
This is why I think deal settles at Grimes, McBride and 5 first rounders? or Leon should walk away.
I would hold line at IQ, Obi, McBride and 4 first rounders. I prefer to keep Grimes (defense)?. Although IQ/OBi could make second unit lethal.
Sure, play the kids all season. Hope for another top 5 pick? that?s another route.
But at least this is something you can control. If you can get D Mitch for Grimes and McBride and 5 first rounders? do it. Knicks are young and loaded with talent then and free agents will come.
Not going to break you not selecting 23rd.
They?ve been bad for 2 decades? it?s time to start making runs at ECF.
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I don?t think a Rudy Gobert type of haul is excessive to get a player of DM's caliber. Multiple draft picks and serviceable players like Beasley, Beverly or in the Knicks case Grimes, Fournier, Toppin, McBride. That said I do question the fit of acquiring DM after getting Jalen. I'd prefer getting long wings like the Celts have instead of the pair of DM/JB.
I want DM. Still, it?s scary to think about paying a price for him that no one is willing to pay but us. I?m guessing that if we traded for him, even if he kept up his all-star play, no way we could get 5 or 6 1st round picks for him a year from now. The price seems too high.
Still, the Knicks have very little to lose here. We draft badly. If we can get DM for a bunch of 1st round picks and some of our bench guys, we?re probably a lot better team in the long run for it. An endless string of Ntilikina, Knox, Toppin, Grimes-type 1st round picks will never get us anywhere. A lot of our picks are protected and/or our luck in the lottery is horrific, so our chances of any one of our future 1st rounders being a generational player seem low.
Still, the Knicks have very little to lose here. We draft badly. If we can get DM for a bunch of 1st round picks and some of our bench guys, we?re probably a lot better team in the long run for it. An endless string of Ntilikina, Knox, Toppin, Grimes-type 1st round picks will never get us anywhere. A lot of our picks are protected and/or our luck in the lottery is horrific, so our chances of any one of our future 1st rounders being a generational player seem low.
mafra
Legend
I agree. MJ was what? 1988-1989 season, when he was same age as DM is now. I vividly recall numerous debates with BOS fans, who cried MJ was never and never would be a champion?.
Not often a multiple time all star at 25 falls into your laps.
I think Rose is fine with 4-5 first rounders, of which 2-3 are the only NYK original ones. From here, we shall see how willing and able.
I would hope Leon is comfortable with 6 first rounders, as long as the players going to Utah are Evan, Cam, & McBride.
I don?t feel like he should surrender Grimes. Definitely either Grimes or IQ/Obi duo.
Utah ultimately values picks over players and they don?t want DM in team to start season and risk lowering their lottery odds.
Meanwhile, Rose should be content dumping Randle on LAK for Westbrook, then buying RW out, going with kids and rebuilding in upcoming draft
Pressure should be on Utah to make a deal, not NY. SGA or another star will be on the market next year.
6 first rounders (2-3 NY?s), Evan, Cam, McBride is ideal.
Flip Randle to LAK. Release RW.
You got a star back court to attract free agents, you have youth (RJ, Mitch, IQ, Obi, Grimes, Simms) and you have cap space moving forward. How is this bad?
If Utah wants either Grimes or IQ/Obi then you lower to just 4 or 5 first rounders.
Remember, 1 first is simply to dump Evan on them. And Rose amassed a stockpile of 4 first rounder via trade. That?s 8 next 4 years, so even if Ny deals 6 they still have 2 next 4 years.
That has to be the line? we shall see.
Not often a multiple time all star at 25 falls into your laps.
I think Rose is fine with 4-5 first rounders, of which 2-3 are the only NYK original ones. From here, we shall see how willing and able.
I would hope Leon is comfortable with 6 first rounders, as long as the players going to Utah are Evan, Cam, & McBride.
I don?t feel like he should surrender Grimes. Definitely either Grimes or IQ/Obi duo.
Utah ultimately values picks over players and they don?t want DM in team to start season and risk lowering their lottery odds.
Meanwhile, Rose should be content dumping Randle on LAK for Westbrook, then buying RW out, going with kids and rebuilding in upcoming draft
Pressure should be on Utah to make a deal, not NY. SGA or another star will be on the market next year.
6 first rounders (2-3 NY?s), Evan, Cam, McBride is ideal.
Flip Randle to LAK. Release RW.
You got a star back court to attract free agents, you have youth (RJ, Mitch, IQ, Obi, Grimes, Simms) and you have cap space moving forward. How is this bad?
If Utah wants either Grimes or IQ/Obi then you lower to just 4 or 5 first rounders.
Remember, 1 first is simply to dump Evan on them. And Rose amassed a stockpile of 4 first rounder via trade. That?s 8 next 4 years, so even if Ny deals 6 they still have 2 next 4 years.
That has to be the line? we shall see.