What We Need VS. What's Available

bobs3304

Benchwarmer
If we're keeping Marbury, bringing in Walker couldn't possibly hurt the team any more than it already is. We would def. be a run-and-gun team and he has the heart and confidence to last in NY. He's the same age as Marbury, so that has nothing to do with it. And the most he'll make next season is around 7 Mill per.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves. There are plenty directions Isiah could go this summer.
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
bobs3304 said:
If we're keeping Marbury, bringing in Walker couldn't possibly hurt the team any more than it already is. We would def. be a run-and-gun team and he has the heart and confidence to last in NY. He's the same age as Marbury, so that has nothing to do with it. And the most he'll make next season is around 7 Mill per.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves. There are plenty directions Isiah could go this summer.

I think Walker makes more sense if we aren't keeping Marbury... He's a point forward, he likes to handle the ball and run the offense.His game would clash with Steph's like it did with Pierce. I don't think Boston would want Sweets, they have Jefferson, Blount and Perkins.. and they are all 6' 10' and above. I don't think they are going to resign Payton so they would like a veteran point guard; especially if they are rebuilding. They would need some sort of a quaterback to keep order. Plus they need to sell tickets, like the knicks and at the very least, Steph can put butts in the seats. Again, this is all speculation but JD or Taylor will not bring back quality at all. They would bring back a longer contract that is worse than theirs. The knicks only have 1 or 2 pawns to bargain with. Yes, sweetney might bring in Brown from Washington. They are desperate to get rid of him but not loose their number 1 pick for nothing. Sweets is better than anything NJ would offer. Isiah does have 1 or 2 future #1 picks that he can add to a offer but we have guys that are not trade friendly. If we still had Nazr then we would have a better trade chip, but Rose and Taylor have contracts that no one will want. JD might find a home in Toronto, they seem to have a sentimental attatchment to him, but he is not a name that is ever mentioned in a trade. As far as Carter was concerned, Isiah would have given them K Thomas and JD for him but Toronto specifically asked for Marbury and Isiah pulled out on the deal. He has stated this on radio interviews. He did try to throw in Houston at first, but in the end, it came down to Isiahs unwillingness to trade Steph the put the cabosh on that deal. Unless we do a total dump, really there isn't to many options we have. Ariza won't get much, he probably needs this year to really cement his value, and TT won't be attractive until the trade deadline. So, this off season will be siging a big guy got the M/L/E, whom ever that might be and trading for Brown (if Washington will take Sweets as compinsation). Unless he (Isiah) is willing to use Steph to get that quality guy, than there isn't much more he will be able to do. That is the reality of a team that is so horribly capped out like the Knicks.
 

bobs3304

Benchwarmer
I see your point. I like Walker's enthusiasm, but I guess what it comes down to is this:

Isiah will surprise us once again. I doubt any of us will be able to predict which direction he's going this summer, b/c it's his vision and only he has intimate knowledge of what sort of team he plans on assembling.
 

KnicksFan20

Rotation player
when walker touches the ball he will want to shooot.......when he shoots he misses alot....he will have streak when hes on and off


he is a horrible freethrow shooter......

he isnt a great defender or shotblocker which wut we need....


if isaih goes for walker.......BAD MOVE
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
KnicksFan20 said:
when walker touches the ball he will want to shooot.......when he shoots he misses alot....he will have streak when hes on and off


he is a horrible freethrow shooter......

he isnt a great defender or shotblocker which wut we need....


if isaih goes for walker.......BAD MOVE

When Walker came back to Boston last season he was much more focused and spread the ball out alot better than he did in the past. No, he is not a shot blocker but he is an offesnive threat. All good shooters are streaky, it is the nature of the game. When he is on, he can put up big numbers. Walker wouldn't be the savior of the knicks but he would be a piece to the puzzle. He demands a double team when he touches the ball, and he could kick it out to QR or JC. One thing that he is, is consitant on is his passing. He handles the ball very well for a big man and has good court vision. He bombed in Dallas because he didn't fit the system and wasted away in Atlanta. He is a quality player but not a dominate player. If the get Walker, they would still need to add size but they would have a proven NBA forward. Drafting is a crap shoot, you can't hinge the future on lottery balls but you can bring in quality players. You need quality to get quality. Walker is quality and, at the very least, you at least know what you are getting. Kwame and Swift are crap shoots as well. Walker is more stable and grounded than they are. I'm not saying that the Knicks shouldn't take a chance on one of them but they should still bring in someone who is a sure thing on some level as well. If not Walker, who else is out there. It will be years before they can outright sign someone in free agency. So in the meant time, what player can they get??? The Knicks need to stay competitive, so whom ever they bring in better be able to make an impact on some level. A rookie has some growing room. Frye will make rookie mistakes, it is inevidable. As long as you have some stability, you will be able to let them grow into their roles and let their talent flurish. Isiah needs to make 1 solid move here. Kwame or Swift is not a solid move, Walker would be.
 

bobs3304

Benchwarmer
Theatre hit it right on the nail. While Kwame or Swift would be the sexy way to go, theyre not necessarily the smart route to take.

I like Walker b/c he basks in the big moments and isn't afraid to take the last shot. He plays hard, and at the least he's an average defender. He's the same age as Marbury, but would give us tons of playoff experience.

I think in order to make room for Walker, however, you need to find a way to deal JYD and Sweetney, along /w/ maybe a future pick. Roster space is a premium right now.

And on top of that, we also have the MLE to spend on a legit big, like James. Here's how I would see it going down:

Frye, J. James
Walker, Taylor, Rose
Ariza, Timmy, Lee
Q, Crawford
Marbury, Nate


But no doubt, I know Isiah has something special in mind. Can't wait to see what he comes up with...
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
I guess ideally it would be nice to keep Marbury and add a quality big man. The problem is I can't see us getting quality for guys like JD, Rose, Tim T. Tim T's contract will help us around the trade deadline to get someone like the 76's did, A Webber type. A type of player that has a big, multi-year contract that his current team feels it's too much for where they are currently at and/or going. In the off season, in order to get quality you have to trade quality. If Isiah some how gets Swift to come to NY, then he shouldn't go after Kwame, he needs a veteran. We currently have veterans on the team; Rose, Taylor and I guess JYD but these guys are role players off the bench at best. I think the 1 guy that we should keep is JYD. He is a tenacious defender and has energy. This is the guy you want off your bench. Even though he has those attributes, he still is a hard contract to trade. So, not to beat a dead horse, but I think the only way the Knicks can get a proven big man this off season, in a trade or sign and trade, is to use Marbury as the pawn. TT might get us something come the trade deadline. Also, forget Penny until the trade deadline as well. Even though he has an expiring contract, I don’t see any team that would want him at all, at least TT can play.
 

bobs3304

Benchwarmer
Theatre: I hate to have conversations like this b/c I'm being tugged in 2 different direction: What SHOULD happen, and what WILL. What very well should happen is Isiah shopping Marbury around, to see what kind of interest he can garnish. What WILL happen is Zeke will hold onto Steph for atleast another year, and try hard to build the best team around him. With Crawford and Nate needing minutes, I think it would actually make more sense to trade Marbury, but I don't wanna indulge in that, b/c it's something that's just not in the cards this summer (I think).
 

ny3nyk

Rotation player
why do u guys want to start ariza instead of tim? i dont think ariza is ready yet but he defintely brings energy off the bench and should get alot more min. and if we do get walker, tim and 'toine can have so many mismatches since they are tall and good 3 point shooters and exceptional post players, but i dont think we should be a team that revolves around the 3. we should add size to our lineup, even stro would be nice addition
 

bobs3304

Benchwarmer
Ariza is a poor shooter, let alone from beyond the arc. IMO, Ariza is ready to contribute, and whether or not he starts isn't important to me...
 

portega1968

El Cacique
League realignment? hell, how 'bout Knick realignment...

NY gets
Pierce (SG)
Jefferson (PF)
Odom (SF-PointForward)
Ridnour (PG)
Jerome James (C)

Boston gets
Steph
Malik Rose
Penny Hardaway

Seattle gets
Kobe Bryant
Nate Robinson
Tim Thomas

Lakers get
Ray Allen
Jamal Crawford
Mo Taylor
Mark Blount

and then...ship JYD and Sweets to Washington for Kwame plus change

NY Starting 5
Luke Ridnour (future allstar PG)
Paul Pierce (SG)
Lamar Odom (SF)
Al Jefferson (future allstar PF)
Kwame Brown (C)

backups
jerome james
channing frye
jackie butler
david lee
trevor ariza
jermaine jackson

This will give Herb Williams a fresh handle on this team, 'cause you know Stephon just doesn't want Herb as coach. One of them will not be here come October.

Of course, all this is pure speculation, probably doesn't work salary-wise, WON'T happen and yes I'm smoking some serious shit. Ariza the veteran Knick on the team? JAJAJAJAJAJ. So don't gang up on me for using my imagination and wasting your time.

Lord I beg you for a Knick championship before I die!!!
 

Ted

Benchwarmer
If we could get Walker with the MLE then you can't argue with it. He would fit very nicely into Zeke's plans (of which I strongly dissaprove). Walker fits right in the Marbury, Crawford, Q, Tim Thomas mold of guys with attitudes who would be below average defenders in the WNBA. But he's an All-Star caliber player on the offensive end, and if the plan is to make the playoffs (and lose in the first round) now then he's your man.

Personally I would rather see us get a little defense. Under Carlisle the Pistons showed that you can win with strong defense, a team first attitude, and a good coach without any highly regarded/overpayed players. Zeke clearly missed that and decided that trading terrible overpayed players with short contracts for decent overpayed players with long contracts was the best way to build a team. I would have honestly rather seen him make a trade or two for some young players, then cut everyone and sign a bunch of nobodies who can defend. I think we would have been contending sooner.
I guess that you can't change the past and that at least this is better than anything Layden could have done. Considering the spot we're in I don't think that Walker is a half bad 4. I would also welcome an athletic PF who can defend. Sweetney looks like a good backup, but he's limited physically and doesn't do much for you defensively. Swift is a hell of an athlete and his baggage doesn't even compare to Kwame's. Although if Zeke is convinced that Kwame will work hard then I wouldn't be against getting him.
I also wouldn't mind standing pat. I like the three guys we drafted and think that we might already have a decent team. Maybe bring in someone who can defend (that does not mean Jerome James) with the exception and see how the young guys do. If the young guys play well they're much more valuable at the deadline or next offseason.
 

ny3nyk

Rotation player
portega1968 said:
League realignment? hell, how 'bout Knick realignment...

NY gets
Pierce (SG)
Jefferson (PF)
Odom (SF-PointForward)
Ridnour (PG)
Jerome James (C)

Boston gets
Steph
Malik Rose
Penny Hardaway

Seattle gets
Kobe Bryant
Nate Robinson
Tim Thomas

Lakers get
Ray Allen
Jamal Crawford
Mo Taylor
Mark Blount

and then...ship JYD and Sweets to Washington for Kwame plus change

NY Starting 5
Luke Ridnour (future allstar PG)
Paul Pierce (SG)
Lamar Odom (SF)
Al Jefferson (future allstar PF)
Kwame Brown (C)

backups
jerome james
channing frye
jackie butler
david lee
trevor ariza
jermaine jackson

This will give Herb Williams a fresh handle on this team, 'cause you know Stephon just doesn't want Herb as coach. One of them will not be here come October.

Of course, all this is pure speculation, probably doesn't work salary-wise, WON'T happen and yes I'm smoking some serious s**t. Ariza the veteran Knick on the team? JAJAJAJAJAJ. So don't gang up on me for using my imagination and wasting your time.

Lord I beg you for a Knick championship before I die!!!

i think kobe is untouchable, and the celtics would never go on with that trade because they are currently rebuilding also with all their young players, they will never give al jefferson up but they will likely ship pp out.
i doubt luke ridnour will be a future all star but he is a decent pg. plus, there are so many players involved and so much money that the teams involved probably wouldnt even go through in the trade. in conclusion, u totally dismantled the team and added players with equal or less talent with the current team.


ps: what is it with trading marbury the knicks is where he belongs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

bobs3304

Benchwarmer
ny3nyk said:
portega1968 said:
League realignment? hell, how 'bout Knick realignment...

NY gets
Pierce (SG)
Jefferson (PF)
Odom (SF-PointForward)
Ridnour (PG)
Jerome James (C)

Boston gets
Steph
Malik Rose
Penny Hardaway

Seattle gets
Kobe Bryant
Nate Robinson
Tim Thomas

Lakers get
Ray Allen
Jamal Crawford
Mo Taylor
Mark Blount

and then...ship JYD and Sweets to Washington for Kwame plus change

NY Starting 5
Luke Ridnour (future allstar PG)
Paul Pierce (SG)
Lamar Odom (SF)
Al Jefferson (future allstar PF)
Kwame Brown (C)

backups
jerome james
channing frye
jackie butler
david lee
trevor ariza
jermaine jackson

This will give Herb Williams a fresh handle on this team, 'cause you know Stephon just doesn't want Herb as coach. One of them will not be here come October.

Of course, all this is pure speculation, probably doesn't work salary-wise, WON'T happen and yes I'm smoking some serious s**t. Ariza the veteran Knick on the team? JAJAJAJAJAJ. So don't gang up on me for using my imagination and wasting your time.

Lord I beg you for a Knick championship before I die!!!

i think kobe is untouchable, and the celtics would never go on with that trade because they are currently rebuilding also with all their young players, they will never give al jefferson up but they will likely ship pp out.
i doubt luke ridnour will be a future all star but he is a decent pg. plus, there are so many players involved and so much money that the teams involved probably wouldnt even go through in the trade. in conclusion, u totally dismantled the team and added players with equal or less talent with the current team.


ps: what is it with trading marbury the knicks is where he belongs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



youre a jackass.........



just thought I'd let you know.
 

portega1968

El Cacique
ny3nyk, no doubt that would be the biggest swap since that 9-man trade a couple of years back; vitually impossible. Nevertheless, with Phil back in LaLaland. I'm wondering if Kobe's days are numbered. Plus, Isiah is looking at what he would get for Marbs, so it seems he doubts Stephon will ever fit his new plans for more defense and an uptempo offense. I hated it when they traded away Spree, but I learned to move on. Seems we are all going to have to move on without Steph sooner than later. So if he is going to be traded, I want a top 10 player for him. I believe KG is on the block, so that would be my target, even if it takes 3, 4 or 10 teams to get it done.
 

portega1968

El Cacique
bobs3304, you have some sort of complex that leads you to insult people you don't know? If you don't like seeing the b/s I write, just ignore it dude. It takes a real coward to talk like that to anybody, evenmore to somebody you don't even know. I'm guessing you had a loud upbringing. Save yourself some bad vibes and avoid responding to my stuff like some narcissist teeanger.
 

bobs3304

Benchwarmer
portega1968 said:
bobs3304, you have some sort of complex that leads you to insult people you don't know? If you don't like seeing the b/s I write, just ignore it dude. It takes a real coward to talk like that to anybody, evenmore to somebody you don't even know. I'm guessing you had a loud upbringing. Save yourself some bad vibes and avoid responding to my stuff like some narcissist teeanger.



thanks dr. phil

I'll keep that in mind.


oh.......wait. this is coming from a guy that thinks Boston will trade us Al Jefferson, let alone Pierce. lol, you must be shittin me.


But ok Phil, you win. I'll try not to be a "narcissistic teenager" .
 

Ted

Benchwarmer
portega1968 said:
ny3nyk, no doubt that would be the biggest swap since that 9-man trade a couple of years back; vitually impossible. Nevertheless, with Phil back in LaLaland. I'm wondering if Kobe's days are numbered. Plus, Isiah is looking at what he would get for Marbs, so it seems he doubts Stephon will ever fit his new plans for more defense and an uptempo offense. I hated it when they traded away Spree, but I learned to move on. Seems we are all going to have to move on without Steph sooner than later. So if he is going to be traded, I want a top 10 player for him. I believe KG is on the block, so that would be my target, even if it takes 3, 4 or 10 teams to get it done.

The trade is very creative. The first problem is that the Knicks are getting the future and present stars of the Celtics organization and the #2 guy on the Lakers while giving up almost nothing: no one want Marbury's attitude and contract that's why the Knicks got him for scraps in the first place and the best deal that you're earing about is Dalembert and McKie. I don't think that Marbury gets moved because you're not going to get an equa player in a trade and the Knicks are not concerned with the cap.

Furthermore, Phil went back to LA to coach Kobe and he's not getting moved for Ray Allen who had one great year in his contract year after several years as a more athletic Allan Houston. In a few years I expect that he will look much like Houston does now.

Garnett is not on the block. He's the face of that franchise and one of three players who makes any team an instant title contender. This year was a fluke. If they were going to trade KG the Wolves would have taken someone with more pside than McCants.
 
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