Marbury: I want to die a Knick

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
Jim we heard this shuck n jive redrick all season. When Marbury did what Brown asked and passed off the ball, and they lost, Brown said well Steph needs to be more agressive. When Steph was aggressive/selfish or what ever you want to coin it, Brown said he needs to get his teammates involved and be more unselfish. I saw then that Larry was full of $h!t. It's one or the other. Steve Nash could not help this team win. Even Nash has his Sean Marian and Amare. Some one to pass to that can take over. To answer your question it's both. Starbury sacrificed because of doing what LB asked. He sacrificed Scoring to pass the ball off and lose. Look what happened in Kobe's last game against the Suns. Mabury is no Kobe but my point is some players have to score in order for their team to win. Untill every one else steps up Steph is the man that needs to score, or at least was last year.
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
Sounds like you have something personal against LB. No coach could have done anything with that team last year. And its crazy to give any coach one year and a bad line-up and expect them to work wonders. Are you a Tar Heel fan??? That would explain alot because I know LB left you guys high and dry. But give the man some credit, he can coach.
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
What?! The roster was fine...not the best but good enough to make the playoffs...but when you change the lineup 40+ times and never define roles...guess what....just guess....you win 23 games! The roster was not at fault, it was the coach...you must realize that believe if you're a non-believer and move on...
 

sxmarbury516

Benchwarmer
jimkcchief88 said:
As for why nobody is talking junk about AI, Paul Pierce, KG and Ray Allen, its because they avg more than 16.6 ppg for their multi-million dollar salaries

If "Starbury" was more concerned about the "team", he could have sacraficed a little of his scoring ability for the good of the team.

ur jumpin from side to side. 1st he's wrong because he only avg'd 16.6 ppg and yet he makes as much as AI. and in the next post he's wrong because he didnt sacrafice his scoring ability. so pretty much he's dammed if he does and dammed if he dont. its a lose/lose situation. since u dont get msg u dont get to see half as many games that most of us watch. im telling u right now, i never had a prior beef with larry brown. if u watched most the games this past season even u would have had to question the descions that larry made. he would bench players that were playing good. he would put players like david lee on the in-active list right after starting him for all 6 games during our only decent winning streak. publicly bashing players who never even got out of line with him. steve francis' name was dragged thru the dirt in the media just for asking 4 a solid amount of playing time towards the end of the season. nate was a 'showboater'. he had it out with @ least 80% of the players on the roster, the owner, and the gm. like ive said in previous posts its kinda hard to come up with ur own opinion when u cant see most of the games.
 

Finesse

Benchwarmer
Will the real Knick fans please stand up?

I can’t speak for those other guys, but I definitely have something against Larry Frontrunner! Any true Knick fan should!! This guy intentionally sabotaged the Knicks season. I don’t care how you choose to look at last season, there is no excuse for the things he did. From proposing trades he knew Isiah didn’t want to make to trashing players in the papers, this guy should not only not be paid for the remainder of his contract, he should be banned from coaching in the NBA! If he worked for a corporation as a ‘civilian’, so to speak, he’d be fired and possibly sued or even brought up on charges!! What he did was an affront to basketball on the scale of the Pete Rose situation!! I’m getting a little tired of supposed Knick fans sticking up for this bum. Isiah just fired him, he should have whooped his ass!! He, being a future Hall of Fame coach and a revered and respected coach, could have done irreparable damage to the psyches of our young, developing players. If he gets another dime from the Knicks it would be a travesty of justice!!
I said I wouldn’t question the loyalty of other Knick fans, but enough is enough!!
Jim, you say he left the Tar Heels high and dry, what does that say to you? I wouldn’t pay $200 for a league pass to see the Knicks, either, but my reasons are different than yours: I don’t have it!! I don’t look at the Knicks to see them get beat, I look for signs that the team is progressing and that the young players are developing. Maybe you should get a league pass, in fact you should try to get tape of every game the Knicks played last year and you’d see what a hack Larry Frontrunner really is!! You’d also see the skills of the players you malign so much, especially Marbury. Marbury is a selfish player in the mode of AI. His worth to any team is his selfishness. I’ll assume the ‘kcchief’ in your handle belies that you live in Missouri or Kansas. If you rely on Sports Center for information on the goings on with the Knicks, then that may explain your obvious lack of knowledge concerning this young, TALENTED team. Larry Frontrunner is not old school, he’s old fool!!
 

sxmarbury516

Benchwarmer
ur 100% right. the perfect example was draft night. the espn crew ripped into zeke even having me aggrivated with our 2 picks. then i read up and saw highlights on the 2 players and have come to the conclusion these 2 will fit in perfect with the talent we have. just because stephen a smith says something doesnt mean it's the truth. its his opinion. and i highly doubt he watched most of the knick games last season either. so then what makes what he says so professional? i value people who forced themselves 2 watch the games opinion over his.
 

Finesse

Benchwarmer
Steven A. Smith, though knowledgeable in the game, has made his mark by being very demonstrative and saying controversial things, so he needs to be taken with a grain of salt. He has a habit of getting his feet set on something and then riding it into the ground (Rasho Nesterovic). I think that’s where he is with the Knicks. Of course, he’s left himself an out by not being too critical of Isiah Thomas. The man didn’t get a TV show for nothing! He’s the Mel Kiper of basketball!
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
Shoot, I don't have $200 to spend on NBA pass either!!! SXmarbury516-I'm not switching sides, I'm just saying... You guys say he's the scorer on the team, but he only avg 16.6.... Every game I watched, and granted it wasn't many, Marbury was running down and pullin from 25' or driving and missing blowing the layup finish. I just didn't see him getting other guys involved... I will agree LB pulled guys early, at least in that late season game against the Bulls I watched where Q was on fire on in the first half and LB benched him. But still hard to believe LB sabatoged the season. If thats the case then Isiah sabatoged LB also. Picking up Stevie franchise at the trading deadline to add to a team overloaded with guards, cmon. LB is a new yorker, why would he sabatoge his childhood team??? Totally agree most of you guys saw more games, but how much do you have to watch to know a team is bad??? Every time the Knicks were nationally televised and I was to excited to finally see them play, they stunk it up and got blown out by 25. That's why I'm pissed at "Starbury" and you guys should be too. The dude makes that much money and the team was that bad.
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
Again marbury couldn't play to his full capability because LB was the coach...blame LB most of all and not starbury as much...
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
For the record I stated that I believe in Isiah's picks because Isiah has a good track record when it comes to drafting. I question his in season moves! I do not think he is a good general manager and his coaching is questionable as well. Marbury, not to beat a dead horse, is a very talented scorer and no one is questioning that either! The problem is the Knicks need a pure 1 and if Marbury isn't that guy, then Isiah has done a poor job filling that need. Frances is another Marbury and that does not hel us either. Crawford is another player with the same game, that does not help us at that position, so we are screwed, unless Mardy Collins turns out to be that guy. If Marbury is moving to the off guard, so be it, but he was brought in here to be the Knicks PG and he has failed at that.
 

Finesse

Benchwarmer
This is tough

I believe a lot of Marbury’s lack of scoring has to be put on Larry Brown. I am not nor have I ever been a fan of Larry Brown, so I know my opinion will appear tainted. There were games last year when Steph was benched the entire 4th quarter. He was constantly called out by Brown in the papers. He was basically shown that he was not wanted on the Knicks by Brown. All of these things will play a part in your game, with some players. AI dealt with the same thing but proved to able to blow Brown off and play his game. I believe Steph is a little more thin-skinned than AI, so was unable to not let it affect his play.
And, of course he had some bad shooting games, as well.
Jim, you and I both know Steph is capable of being among the league leaders in scoring. We also know that ANY player can have an off year, and has! With all due respect, it’s a little simplistic to say he missed a lot of lay-ups. You want him to go to the basket hard, it’s the cornerstone of his game. It enables him to get opposing guards in foul trouble, which leads to all sorts of good things. The Knicks, as a team, lacked off the ball movement, leaving Steph not much of a choice but to create his own shot. I agree he is a selfish player, but do you honestly think he took tough shot instead of passing to wide open teammates? Nobody lasts in the NBA as long as he has doing those type of things. Add to that the complete confusion of the Knicks as to their roles, and you have the makings of a disastrous season. I think you’ll see the difference this year, in ALL the Knicks!
HTG, although I scratched a hole in my head when Isiah made the Francis trade (alas, giving up Trevor Ariza), I can only hope he may have had the Dallas Solution in mind: overload at one position and use the surplus to get what you need in other areas. Plus, by the time he made the trade, the writing was on the wall as far as the season was concerned. The trade was looked upon the same as the Van Exel trade a few years ago in Dallas. Only Dallas was winning, so the criticism was a little different.
I don’t think we’ve seen the end of this story. If Mardy Collins turns out to be the pure #1 the Knicks need, he will be the steal of the draft and Isiah will be a genius! I like Isiah, but I don’t think he’s a genius.
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
Actually, I have never thought "Starbury" was a premier scorer in the NBA. I'm not a Steph historian, but he has always struck me a streak scorer. Either he will light you up for 35 or have an off night for 12, not much middle ground. Maybe I'm wrong there, but you can't ignore how much better every team that has unloaded him has gotten. To me the guy is just a legend in his own mind. I'm not a native New Yorker, so I don't have that history with him, but I think him coming home was the only way you sell that fat contract. The point is with only 23 wins, there is enough blame to go around from coach to gm to star player.
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
Well if you're going to blame starbury, then you have to blame, JC, and Q, and Eddy Curry, and Channing Frye and so on and so on. It is never one players fault when a team loses and it is never one player's credit when he wins a game. It's in the unwritten basketball bible...it is what it is. You can never say that a team is bad because of one player, it's just not fair. Yes Isiah had some blame, yes james dolan to a certain extent has some blame, but LB handled the situation the worst. The roster definitely had talent, it just needed some guidance. LB not only set back our rookies confidence a lil bit, he also embarassed the organization and starbury. And yes marbury is a scoring machine, if you tell him to just put the ball in the whole he will be in the top 7 scorers in the league...guaranteed. He can be one of the most dominating scorers in the game if given the opportunity like in the past
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
Finesse said:
I believe a lot of Marbury’s lack of scoring has to be put on Larry Brown. I am not nor have I ever been a fan of Larry Brown, so I know my opinion will appear tainted. There were games last year when Steph was benched the entire 4th quarter. He was constantly called out by Brown in the papers. He was basically shown that he was not wanted on the Knicks by Brown. All of these things will play a part in your game, with some players. AI dealt with the same thing but proved to able to blow Brown off and play his game. I believe Steph is a little more thin-skinned than AI, so was unable to not let it affect his play.
And, of course he had some bad shooting games, as well.
Jim, you and I both know Steph is capable of being among the league leaders in scoring. We also know that ANY player can have an off year, and has! With all due respect, it’s a little simplistic to say he missed a lot of lay-ups. You want him to go to the basket hard, it’s the cornerstone of his game. It enables him to get opposing guards in foul trouble, which leads to all sorts of good things. The Knicks, as a team, lacked off the ball movement, leaving Steph not much of a choice but to create his own shot. I agree he is a selfish player, but do you honestly think he took tough shot instead of passing to wide open teammates? Nobody lasts in the NBA as long as he has doing those type of things. Add to that the complete confusion of the Knicks as to their roles, and you have the makings of a disastrous season. I think you’ll see the difference this year, in ALL the Knicks!
HTG, although I scratched a hole in my head when Isiah made the Francis trade (alas, giving up Trevor Ariza), I can only hope he may have had the Dallas Solution in mind: overload at one position and use the surplus to get what you need in other areas. Plus, by the time he made the trade, the writing was on the wall as far as the season was concerned. The trade was looked upon the same as the Van Exel trade a few years ago in Dallas. Only Dallas was winning, so the criticism was a little different.
I don’t think we’ve seen the end of this story. If Mardy Collins turns out to be the pure #1 the Knicks need, he will be the steal of the draft and Isiah will be a genius! I like Isiah, but I don’t think he’s a genius.

I have supported Brown, but I was never a Brown guy he was always the enemy to me. I still see him on the Pacers bench in all those Knicks Pacer epics! Still, you can't deny his track record! That is why Isiah has to be accountable for the failure. He did not match the right coach to the current players. When you bring in a coach that has a system, I feel it is unfair to ask him to deviate from that. That is what has made that coach successful. Look at any of the elite coaches, when they move to another team they also bring along their system and philosphies. Riley, on the other hand was able to adapt because his strenght wasn't in his system but more in his relationships with his players. His ability to make a player believe in himself and play beyond their skill set. Still, he traded away players that he felt were a detrament to what he was preaching. He also had a structure belief and he made sure he got what he needed. Like when he traded for Morning the minute he landed in Miami. Brown is a defense first coach and Isiah should have brought in a few pieces that he needed to make his system work.
 

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
I told my self I was going to leave this subject alone but I find my self drawn back to it. Jim's got a point. I don't agree with it but there are a lot of people that do. Coming from a guy that is not a die hard Marbury fan but a die hard Knicks fan I can tell you that Marbury is one of those guys that has a bum rap. He does not fit the mold of traditional point guards so that makes him a ballhog. I believe this to be a crock of.... Although most media so called sports journalist will tell you other wise. Putting aside last season, Marbury's game is solid. His average is up in the 20's so he is a consistant scorer. Jim I think a better arguement would be that we need a traditional point guard, not that Marbury can't score. I don't think most of the Starbury fans would have a response to you if you said, Baren Davis is a better traditional point guard. But we can't take every thing away from him.

I try to get out but the pull me Back in!
 
da knicks are 1 of da best teams in da east

The knicks are truly 1 of the best teams in da east. the only reason the knicks struggled last season was because of larry brown. larry wasnt utalizing da players properly, instead of playing 2 da players strentghs we ended up playing "THE RIGHT WAY". lets be realistic with the roster we have now there is no way we can play the right way. the only way we have a chance of winning is if we play like da phoenix suns. then we will finally have a winning team N das werd cuz best beleive da.
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
Exactly...like what I said all along, LB is a good coach but his past coaching rep didn't do jack for us! He didn't do nothing but hurt I rookies progress and angered most of our vets and CEOs by the way he handled his numerous situations in the media like a little grade school kid. Also, by changing the lineup 40+, mishandling the players in the media, playing a half-court offense with a full court team, benching our rookies when they were making progress...I don't need to say anymore about LB to say his was the problem...jus see when our wins almost double from last year and starbury rises to his all-star status again...and then maybe just maybe the IT and starbury haters will be laid to rest...
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
The 1 and Only said:
Exactly...like what I said all along, LB is a good coach but his past coaching rep didn't do jack for us! He didn't do nothing but hurt I rookies progress and angered most of our vets and CEOs by the way he handled his numerous situations in the media like a little grade school kid. Also, by changing the lineup 40+, mishandling the players in the media, playing a half-court offense with a full court team, benching our rookies when they were making progress...I don't need to say anymore about LB to say his was the problem...jus see when our wins almost double from last year and starbury rises to his all-star status again...and then maybe just maybe the IT and starbury haters will be laid to rest...

Let me ask you this: What did the players do to help Brown put in a steady starting 5? What everyone seems to forget is, when they went on some small wining streaks, Brown left the lineup alone. He changed the lineup so many times because he couldn't find a staring 5 that would stay consistant. I know you are going to say they weren't consistant because of the changes, but it is the old addage, what came first the chicken or the egg. Brown started the season with 5 guys, after so many games that didn't work out, so he made some changes, etc... The coach can only take so much of the blame here, what about the very overpaid players! Isn't there some accountability?? Brown is not causing crawford to put up a 5 for 25 night!! Brown is not making the players not rebound, he is not making them mis free throws! As far as the rookies are concerned, Brown is among most of the elite coaches that do not play their rookies alot. Vangundy and Riley were the same with rookies.
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
Forget his track record...the man was not fit for our roster. He doesn't deserve a second chance after the things he did and the right thing happened...LB was fired. So now it's sink or swim for isiah...and I'm seeing some sunshine and the clouds are going away so hopefully he'll take us out of this dark hole we call rock bottom...
 
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