Isiah & Marbury or LB & "his system"

when in the year 2000? Im pretty sure this is 06 going on 07. And that he had Allen Iverson on that team along with Dikembe Mutumbo, Toni Kukoc, Nazr Mohammed, a young George Lynch and Aaron Mckie, Raja Bell etc etc. They were all younger and the East back then SUCKED.

Cmon are you really gonna defend him doing that? And dont use Detroits team as an example. Look at that roster. Helen Keller could have gotten that team to the finals in a weak division.

He's a good coach I'll give him that BUT he was coaching when players bought into his philosophy. When he took over losing teams or teams with allstars already on it.

His time has come and gone.. you'll see when he takes over Charlotte.

Your command of calender years is commendable. Riles wins a championship after almost TWO decades, but LB forgot how to coach in TWO years. Right. Of course LB signed in spite the talent. He was paid well and the Knicks was his "dream job." He thought he would have more than ONE YEAR to turn things around. All the players you listed above are role players at best right now or not even in the league anymore. So LB took a one undersized superstar and a list of role players all the way and you aren't impressed with that???? Oh wait, its only because the East was weak that year. Dude, get real. You may not personally like LB, but give the man some credit, he can coach. Anyone who says he can't hasn't watched hoops for the last THREE DECADES!!!!!

Larry Fronyrunner thoght he was King of New York, but his BOSS showed him the door. He tried to bully the Knicks and it backfired. him and his agent are probably like "uh-oh..."
If he gets another job, one of a few things will happen:
1) the team will be full of veterans
2) he'll be on his best behavior to prove he wasn't to blame in New York
3) He'll go back to college, where he can bully kids and Athletic Directors with impugnity.
Knicks fans, real Knicks fans, be glad he was ousted before he messed up our young guys' heads.

sxmarbury516 has just repeated what I said over a year ago. Larry Brown is a dinosaur. His methods are all gone the way of the Dodo and the T-Rex. They are over. At least with Isiah, he'll keep things quiet and if we have problems the won't be as public. Nobody except reporters need as much drama as we've had last season.

At least we won't have to watch Larry Brown cough up his lower intestine anymore as he screams at Stephon to slow down a fast break and set up a halfcourt offense with one minute to go and down by 10.

I'd rather watch the Knicks lose as they run and gun than watch them lose as Eddy Curry posts up and the others stand still waiting for the ball.

Watching this team struggling to apply Larry Brown's complicated defensive schemes was harder than giving birth to a 2pound kidney stone... I'd rather have an uptempo offense that has the other team on their heals, unable to execute their own offenses. That's a better defense than what we saw last year.

good i hope he does go to charlotte. maybe then he can pick a fight with jordan. even tho everyone can see brown is a favorite in the papers, i highly doubt they will side with him over the greatest player to ever play the game.

Another thing I might add is in most cases...players and rosters make the coach...the coach doesn't make the rosters. So if a team wins the championship such as the heat this year...I'm giving most credit to shaq and wade and the supporting cast...and I'm giving Riley the leftovers because the players play the game and the coaches coach. So when the 76ers went to the championship...people acted like LB was the Star point guard next to AI. He's the coach folks...AI's heart and determination for the most part carried that team to the championship. Chemistry and the make up of the roster is more important than anything, so don't give LB that much credit...he had a good team, with good players, with good chemistry. AI deserves 99% of the
credit

Whats up all, I am new here. I wanted to chime in on this...

I'll take LB and his "system" over Isiah and stephon any day of the week.

Simple really

LB and his system have actually made out it of the first round of the playoffs before. Isiah as a coach and stephon as a player have yet to make it out of the first round. Neither are winners in the current capacities (Isiah as a GM as well)

Good point...but LB and his system always had good chemistry and flow...last year was a ship wreck for everyone....period, No one could take last year's team to the playoffs in our team's horrible condition...

The 1 and Only said:

Good point...but LB and his system always had good chemistry and flow...last year was a ship wreck for everyone....period, No one could take last year's team to the playoffs in our team's horrible condition...

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Now on the other side is Isiah who supplied the players that had no chemistry or flow. Last year's roster is probably the least thought out, slapped together NBA roster i have ever seen since I statred watching basketball in 1982 when hubie brown was here and bernard king and rory sparrow were lightin it up.....

Isiah wakes up, and says to himself "i feel like making a trade today". Then we are stuck with steve francis and jalen rose. great!

Isiah has been caught in so many lies you don't even know where to begin, not to mention he also admitted in his first press conference as knicks president (that dark day) that he would "lie" to us and the media. Phoenix declared they were out of the draft at 18 or 16 (whwever the kid from memphis got selected), If thats the case, how did they have interest in balkman?? easy. isiah lied again

Just how he is lying about LB wanting francis rose. These 2 guys are 2 of the biggest babies in the NBA. They have 0 championships combined are insubordinate to almost every coach they have ever played for> Can you honetsly see LB asking to deal with these 2 headaches on top of dealing with marbury...

I'll take LB every day of the week and twice on sunday. period.

Isiah has taken the franchise i love so much and burned it to ashes.

not that easy for me

nycefnl said:

easy, I trust Thomas and Marbury!

Marbury will definately have that hunger. I believe Frye and Curry can together give him a Garnett like help and Crawford could give him scoring help and Nate will give him a breather here and there! I'm happy Brown is GONE!

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It's hard for me to 2 trust guys who have never had success (winning in marbury's case and building a winnign team for isiah) in their current jobs. The only winner in the whole equation is now out of the equation. Great we will win 10 more games beacause the liftime underachievers that comprise this roster are happy now. where does that leave us 33 wins? Are we going in the right direction? Isiah's first year the team was at .500 and that was progress. It has been almost 3 years since and they have yet to reach .500. So are we really going anywhere when it takes us at least 3 1/2 years to reach .500 again?

I just don't see it. roster filled with losers, (marybury, francis, j rose) lazy players, (j james and curry)

I'll be the first to admit that LB did a really bad job last year - but as the only proven winner of all 12 players, and the gm. He should have been given another year.

I'm sorry you feel that way 'Protect ur picks Isiah' even though you are wrong and biased in everything you say. We all can tell that you are a LB fan and there's nothing wrong with that...I was jumping out my shoes when he first came here. But when his coaching philosophy clashed with our new age players, I knew the exit was near for him. LB is too stubborn to be our coach...this isn't the 1960's peops...we have a young athletic team that's ready to win under their new coach. So instead of hating you need to be preparing for more than 23 games this year because like what I SAID...LB brought the darkest year in basketball into knick history...

The 1 and Only said:

I'm sorry you feel that way 'Protect ur picks Isiah' even though you are wrong and biased in everything you say. We all can tell that you are a LB fan and there's nothing wrong with that...I was jumping out my shoes when he first came here. But when his coaching philosophy clashed with our new age players, I knew the exit was near for him. LB is too stubborn to be our coach...this isn't the 1960's peops...we have a young athletic team that's ready to win under their new coach. So instead of hating you need to be preparing for more than 23 games this year because like what I SAID...LB brought the darkest year in basketball into knick history...

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Obviously, you can't tell anything. I am KNICKS fan. I am biased for what is best for this franchise - long term. not just for today. The guy has coached 34 years and has had 3 losing seasons. 3. If you can find any knick on the orster or GM who has a track record like that please present it to me. It's a real shame because 11 guys who have never won a thing in this league (excluding malik rose) won a power struggle against a proven winner. I would have had a lot easier time accepting brown firing as long as isiah went out of the door with him.

1960's??? larry brown's last title was 2 years ago. I really don't understand that analogy. Maybe you can clear it up for me.

What are we gonna win 33 games? 36 games? we are still under .500 and are in worse cap hell and will lose 2 high first round picks this years and next's years. It's been 3 years and we have gone backwards under isiah. (at .500 his first year) When does isiah get to be responsible for his god-awful moves????

If i am biased toward LB, than you must be biased toward Isiah.

Well I can clear up alot of things for you...first of all when I said 1960s I wasn't referring to anything but his old coaching philosophies, please point out for me where I said that's when he won a championship??? And that wasn't an analogy. And if you were biased for the franchise then you would want brown out...he shouldn't have been here in the first place. HE DOES NOT FIT OUR CURRENT ROSTER! I gave you six reasons why LB should have gotten fired and you haven't given me 1. We are in the rebuilding stage so winning 33 games is better than LB's 23...that's an improvement and far off of rock bottom, but I think we'll win more than that. And we're in deep in cap like the U.S is in inflation is because of scott layden...not Isiah Thomas...Isiah took all of those awful contracts attached to those awful players and traded them for people like Keith Van Horn, Stephon Marbury, Jalen Rose, Steve Francis etc. etc...so if you think that's a bad thing then think again. There was two ways Isiah could have approached this...wait til all the contracts expire which would have been this year or next year I can't remember or take those contracts and some expiring ones and go out and get some talent and attempt to win now. The latter approach is what Isiah took. And no playa...I'm not an isiah fanatic...nor do I speak his prophet...I live in reality and I speak the truth

'I trust in Marbury and Thomas'

I love it when people speak realistically instead of living the coulda shoulda woulda...

The 1 and Only said:

Well I can clear up alot of things for you...first of all when I said 1960s I wasn't referring to anything but his old coaching philosophies, please point out for me where I said that's when he won a championship??? And that wasn't an analogy. And if you were biased for the franchise then you would want brown out...he shouldn't have been here in the first place. HE DOES NOT FIT OUR CURRENT ROSTER! I gave you six reasons why LB should have gotten fired and you haven't given me 1. We are in the rebuilding stage so winning 33 games is better than LB's 23...that's an improvement and far off of rock bottom, but I think we'll win more than that. And we're in deep in cap like the U.S is in inflation is because of scott layden...not Isiah Thomas...Isiah took all of those awful contracts attached to those awful players and traded them for people like Keith Van Horn, Stephon Marbury, Jalen Rose, Steve Francis etc. etc...so if you think that's a bad thing then think again. There was two ways Isiah could have approached this...wait til all the contracts expire which would have been this year or next year I can't remember or take those contracts and some expiring ones and go out and get some talent and attempt to win now. The latter approach is what Isiah took. And no playa...I'm not an isiah fanatic...nor do I speak his prophet...I live in reality and I speak the truth

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The later approach is what he took huh? Hw did that work out for us?? 33 wins means nothing, if your long term plan isnt to win a championship. which has not been the goal of this franchise for a long time.

Brown didnt fit our current roster be cause our current roster is awful and put together with zero thought behind it. With uncoachable veteran star players who have been moved from team to team throughout their careers

So you think trading all of those contracts that layden got us for bigger contracts to go backwards, or if they win 40 games this year finish at .500 with absolutely not shot at a championship in the forseeable future is a good thing? If you do, reality is place you obviously are not familiar with.

The end of this season will be isiah's 3rd 1/2 year-4th year here. We are buried worse under the cap, we lost the 2nd overall pick and who knows what pick we will lose next year because we will definetly finish worse then the bulls. Do you see that as progress?? We went backwards before brown got here, so you can't blame it all on him.

Notice how I use rebuilding and 33 wins in the same sentence and strongly...so in combining those two words, I'm saying 33 wins is an improvement next to the 23 wins our previous year in trying to crawl out of this hole...and believe it or not...a GM's job is to take a team to the promised land...LB failed and hopefully isiah can pick up this team morale and put the fire back in this team that obviously wasn't there last year. And listen to yourself...it doesn't matter was Isiah did, you and the other haters would still be on him. If he left the roster alone with that loser roster...you would still criticize him. At least he goes out gets the unwanted talent which is odd because francis was a former all-star that still has that capability if given a chance yet he stole him from the magics...it's moves like this that help our roster yet when you change coaches every year and constantly change the roster to fit the coaches needs then you never build chemistry, thus you don't win games. Our roster will spend training camp and the preseason together, the chemistry will build then and we will hopefully start the season off strong. And yes we were going backwards but we hit rock bottom when larry arrived...no one can possibly win 23 games with this kind of roster...the bobcats won more games than us. What does that tell you? It kinda tells me that when LB didn't arrive we were a 30+ win team which isn't good but when he arrives we win 23 games which is horrendous. Again...the resulting 23 wins is bad enough but all the little sideshows he pulled during the season was the cherry on top...

Damn right. I hate isiah. Look at what he has done to this franchise since he has been here. He is the main reason the knicks are the mess that they are today. Marbury had a role, Dolan had a role, LB had a role. The majority of the blame should fall in his lap.

Should i give him the executive of the year award for 3 years of no progress, cap hell and peeing away first rounders???

Were a 30+ win team before LB got here. So we were still going backwards compared with isiah's first year here.

Why steve francis been on 4 teams in 6 years?? Because he is an uncoachable baby. Simple. If he was that good, he would been able to find a home in one of the 3 places he played before he got here. If you think the steve francis trade was good for the knicks, then you are in the vast minority of basketball fans throughout the country.

You kept saying we are rebuilding, how do you rebuild with no first rounders and without the ability to add a young player through free agency. How do you rebuild trading bad contracts for worse contracts. how do you rebuild constantly trading expiring contracts instead of letting them expire??

Point blank question. DO you think isiah has done a good job since taking over as GM for this team. Grade him. You know my grade already. I'd give him a Z cause an F is too good.

You fire brown, i strongly disagree with it, but when you keep isiah around who has done a worse job here longer than LB has. Thats where i have major problems with the knicks and the future of the knicks. We basically have no future

To Protect ur picks Isiah....

We all know you hate isiah, you don't have to restate that. I don't hate LB, I don't hate Isiah, and I don't hate Dolan because when you start to hate these guys you're views and opinions are going to be tarnished with hate and that's where you're speaking from instead of being idealistic and understanding. It takes time to build a successful franchise especially when he was under the cap before even took the GM job...so ask yourself what would you do? OOO you would have taken that scrubby team with Keith Van Horn and Kurt Thomas as our best players and take our team into the ground and draft first pick after first pick like the clippers and the hawks and we'll just stay a lottery team for years and years...was that your plan because if it is then you're obviously not in the basketball majority playa. Face the facts...we were a horrible team with Scott Layden's roster so Isiah broke the roster up and composed it of athletic young talent like he said he would do from the first year....it takes a while to build chemistry especially if the players keep switching coaches and systems year in and year out. And we've been in cap heeze before Isiah and what are you talking about first round draft picks?? We've had 5 first round draft picks the past two years?? YES THAT'S REBUILDING

Yes we're in the rebuilding now stage now and I'll reply to all you're questions...when we trade bad contracts for worst contracts we're getting players like Steve Francis and Jalen Rose...last time I checked these players weren't the worst ball players on the court and they are big time trading prospects in the last year of their contracts. And again why would you let the contracts expire...we would be in a worse situation we're in now if we let the contracts expire. Even if isiah did do that...you'd prolly get on him to trade for talent or trying to aquire young prospects. And I'd give Isiah a C because he did bring some great talent in...now we just need to mold them into a system. And no I wouldn't fire brown....I WOULD NEVER HIRE HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE...especially with the current roster. You would be crazy if you hired him with the current roster and also a hippocrate. And our future is in our 5 1st rounders from the past two years....dag you are definitely thinking like a pessimist...