Marbury + Francis = DISASTER

sxmarbury516

Benchwarmer
ok kcchieffan ur last post explains why u've been doing all the sh*t talkin in all theze past forums. if u cant watch games how can u come up with your own opinion? reading posts from a bunch of thick-headed people in forums. im glad u finally proved that all this trash talkin runnin out ur mouth is based on what people in the media have to say about the team not from what u see happening with the team. ive watched pretty much every game and slowly but surely marbury and francis and gettin on the same page. im sure once the post season roles around and the knicks are still in it then u'll get to see the team fully developed and choke on ur words. i find it funny how people claim to be knick fans but as long as isiah or steph are on the team they are prayin the team loses. its good to know ur glad u dont get 2 see any games because with some of theze knew players u dont know just how exciting it is 2 watch the knicks. good thingz r comin. fuk all u haters.
 

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
Haven't had a chance to see a game yet save the highlights, but I can tell by the posts how the "starbury"/francis backcourt is going. I guess we no national coverage this year. I think they play the Bulls this month so I'll get to see the disaster first hand. Anyone that knows diddley about hoops should have figured out that two undersized ballhogs who won't play defense cannot co-exist in the same backcourt. I think watching a year of this will squash the rest of the "starbury" apologists. I guess I'm glad I won't get to see this team play very often because it would just piss me off. Wake me up when we get a real coach and the dead weight is cut.

Undersized ballhogs is an exaggeration and a comment typical of some one who doesn't know the team. Both Marbury and Francis are distributing the ball. So that comment doesn't apply to ether player. I've watched two games so far and in both I saw a struggling Marbury failing to score but made some great passes. As I've said before his role has not been clearly defined. That's not an excuse for his poor play, but a lot of people on this site once argued that we need a traditional point guard. Well, now Marbury is playing the role of a traditional point guard. So what should he do? Should he score 16 and make 4 or 5 asts? Or should he be "The Ballhog", take over the game, not let any one else get in a rhythm and score 20-24 pts? If you guys want to criticize Marbury by all means do so but be knowledgable and fair about it.
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
I saw one highlight where "Starbury" makes a bad pass at the top of the key, then doesn't even hustle back to stop the ensuing layup or foul. How can you have a guy that has been in the league this long and makes that much money that has no role???? Reality check, "Starbury" can no longer take over a game, so no one in the NBA is afraid of that. Instead of ballhog, should I say shoot first mentality???? There are not enough basketballs in the league to have these two guys in the backcourt at the same time. The rest of the country knows this, but I guess NYC is in its own world.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
I think new york fans just need to be patient cuz nothings probably happenin til atleast after december. Isiah just gotta let francis and especially marbury play the way they always have cuz the way marburys played so far this year and last year, he's below his 8 assists per game. Just let marbury be marbury. Hes distributin the ball less than before. At the age of 29, marbury and francis still should be as good as they were a couple of years ago. I know they haven't looked good so far, but the more they play together the better they'll get. I aint given up yet, f*** that.
 

dr.carpy

Benchwarmer
I've got to side with KC on this one. The Marbury/Francis experiment, to this point has been a failure. Before responding with some fool-hearted, bullsh!t excuse, our record says it all. Isiah is a better man than me, cause there's no way I trust Marbury to save my job. The sad thing is, no one will readily bail the Knicks out of jail. We will pay Marbury his 41 Milli, cause no one is stupid or desperate enough to take the "Best PG in the East's" bloated unattractive contract. So for now keeping enjoying "Starbury's" half assed efforts...that is until 2009.
 

dr.carpy

Benchwarmer
By the way to reinforce what I just said, Renaldo Balkman had half of Starbury's productivty in almost a quarter of the time. Here's the stats:

MIN FGM-A FTM-A 3GM-A OFF TOT AST ST TO BLK PF PTS
Balkman 13 1-2 1-2 1-1 0 4 4 3 1 1 2 4

Marbury 44 3-10 2-4 0-2 1 1 8 1 0 0 2 8

Please somebody tell me why this joker is still in the league, oh and try to justify his salary, work ethic, and complete lack of diginity. Goddanmit!! These are public stats! He should be ashamed, but we all know he's not.
 

sxmarbury516

Benchwarmer
hey doc not for nothin but the only fool-hearted post i see in here besides jimkcchief's is yours. i was jus wonderin how many games this season have u actually watched up in edmonton, canada. prolly just as much as ur starbury hatin buddy jimkcchief.

have u seen what our schedule is lookin like for november? we got one of the toughest if not the toughest schedule to start the season off with. im not making excuses for marburys flat stat line but the fact is that hes more worried about getting his team-mates involved then scoring himself. which is what most of u haters wanted him to do. and thats the problem. all u 'fans' who used 2 blaim the knicks losing on marbury for being a ballhog now blaim him for losing since he hasnt scored.

i remember all of u saying you wanted him playing like charlie ward. thats exactly what he's done for the start of this season and yet he's still hearin people bitch about him.

RPG APG SPG TO PPG
2.5 5.0 1.1 1.64 11.6 marbury (this season- worst season on paper)
2.6 4.0 1.2 1.65 6.3 charlie ward (career)

jamal crawford has taken up the role of 'ballhog' if u will . but i havnt heard not one person mention him hoisting up some terrible shots. yea hes hit some clutch shots but he's put up some ugly attempts. but u dont watch games so u prolly wouldnt know this.

all n all im confident the knicks will continue to get better. and i think most of the fans out there who actually get to watch games feel the same way.
 

Starks

Starter
I agree with both of you guys. Don't get me wrong, but I certainly do not like Marbury. I never warmed up to to the guy. NEVER have, NEVER will.. but I'm just an old school knick fan. Stephon doesnt desevre that kind of cream for the productivity he has done for this franchise. theres no disputing that at all. But many years ago, he didn't have a cieling to his game or a bad wrap on him, so that explains the huge contract. Its not like it was worse than Houston's. And I love Allan no matter what any of u say.

But I like this new player Marbury's become. We are more competetive, and more people are touching the ball. Its not Stephon that hoist up bad shots, its Nate and Jamal. (though regardless if they are lucky or bad shots, they have been falling for most part) I can live with pedestrain numbers from Stephon. But if where does this leave Steve??? There's your answer of who has to go
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
sxmarbury516...playa you hit the nail on the head. All the haters was talking about that marbury was a ball hog...now he's a team-playing PG and ya'll are still hating. We can't have a scapegoat for losing. The season is still young and you can't judge are situation right now from just 10 games. The lineup is ok. I have no complaints other than they play a little more consistent. Out of marbury, francis, nate-robb, and JC....francis has given us the most hustle and scrap. Plus when healthy he's droppin 15 ppg 5 and 5 for us. You hatin on him for that? JC is just a taller Ben Gordon. Both are inconsistent and are for the most part volume shooters. He needs to take good shot and only good shots instead of pulling up with that same hesitation dribbble and shooting over the defender. Another thing...it's not really smart to look at the stat sheet without looking at the game. Yes...if you don't watch the game and look at the stat sheet then yes...marbury is straight garbage and needs to go to the NBDL. But if a little of reasoning was used and the game was watched one would see marbury drawing fouls, leading fastbreaks, not making more than 3 TOs a game currently, distributing the ball, creating shots for others, etc. Don't hate that he's growing, love what he's become
 

dr.carpy

Benchwarmer
For those that want to hate saying the Alberta, Canada is weak for NBA coverage I've got two words for ya...DISHNET SATELLITE! Come on man, hit google and recognize that here in Alberta, we supply most of the Natural gas that heats your homes, and the oil that becomes your gas. That equals sick scrilla, so get real. By the by, my Wife and I drive BMW X5's (that's a set of his and hers). So please save the the hick comments for a hick. Too Short, Jay-Z and I are all 6 figga...y'all know the rest. Anyways.

The failure in this group is chemistry, but it's also a lack of desperation, no sense of urgency, and a feeling of entitlement. My father has always said "a man has to earn his keep. This should be the new philosophy in pro sport, but more importantly with our beloved Knicks. Marbury & Francis should embody the aforementioned ethic, and make life miserable for those who don't. So far they haven't. What would be your motivation to work hard if the highest paid person at your job sat back and did jack shit. Would you work harder or roll status quo? The sad thing is most humans will/would choose the latter. That is a synopis of the knicks for 7 out of 11 games this season. On paper this team looks like a world beater. However, when they hit the hardwood they become apathetic. Remeber that game 1 ultimately becomes game 82. So for everybody acting like these games aren't important, this could be the difference between the post season or dusting off your golf bag. For every guy that wants to take time off onthe court I'd tie him to the bench. No minutes equals no face time on ESPN, which tranlates to no lucrative endorsements. Hit a guy in his wallet and he will learn. Plain and simple.
 

e_D

Benchwarmer
In my opinion..

Marbury: Sitting back, playing mediocre ball so as not to get traded. Trying to fool everyone into believing that he's playing Isiah's way of ball, or whatever the f*ck you wanna call it. The fact is great point guards know when to pass and when to shoot. There's no way Marbury is not capable of AT LEAST 18ppg this season, I think we can all agree on that.

I think it's great that he's passing the ball off and getting other people involved in plays, but that's all he's doing. He is not leading the team. He is not driving in for and 1's when we need big buckets. The times that he's been on the floor in the crunch, he's been perfectly content with dumping the ball off into someone else's hands early in the shot clock and letting them make the critical desicions that will win or lose the game. The only thing I've seen Marbury do in the crunch is shoot a 3 when he's wide open. Uncharacterisic of him not to beat his defender and draw the foul.

Marbury has had an apathetic approach so far, he really doesn't seem to care whether we win or lose. When Marbury plays with passion, I really love his game.. But this season, he's trodding around the court like a f*cking corpse.

Francis: In my opinion, playing much better than Marbury. Though not the Francis we've seen is seasons past, he still plays with a bit of his fire. And I have to admit, he does a decent job of getting his teammates involved as well.

I don't know why Francis gets alot of the negativaty that he does, but I think some of it is unwarranted. He's more vocal on the floor than Marbury is, showing himself to be much more suited as a leader for this team. Isiah doesn't play him in the crunch, though if he did I'm sure Francis wouldn't mind taking some of the big shots, at a higher percentage than Crawford mind you.. I'd like to see Francis on the floor during the crunch of a close game more often, then I'll really know what type of player he is this season.

I think it's completely possible for these guys to coexist, they just need adjust their styles, obviously. I think Francis has made more of an attempt to make the relationship work by balancing his talents (trying at least), being vocal with his teammates, and not complaining over minutes. Marbury needs to look for his shot more while continuing to distribute the ball, and he needs to step up and lead this team like he should. Until he does so, he should expect the boos to continue..

BTW, does anyone else think Isiah has been doing a mediocre job of coaching?
 

sxmarbury516

Benchwarmer
i gotta say e_D u saved me a lot of time in writing that. i agree with with everything u said. francis is showing more heart then marbury without a doubt. when has marbury been able to get his team into the playoffs playing this way? NEVER. hes not this kind of player. his game last nite made me sick. 3pts 3asts on 2 shot attmps.

i thought thomas was gonna be utilizing the players strengths not sticking with some undersized half court offense. im really confused here. i dont know why he didnt give jerome james some more minutes against yao last nite. instead he was sticking with players like frye (40+mins).

steve francis came out playing great basketball. why was he on the bench during crunch time? why was our worst big man defensivly (frye) playing that many minutes against a great offensive team like the rockets? why isnt isiah getting on marbury about not being aggressive enough? zeke should especially know this considering his 19+ppg and 9+apg for his career. marbury being more aggressive on the offensive end will only do one thing, get his team mates wide open. so yea i do agree with you. thomas is doing a sub-mediocre job @ coaching. oh yea and one last thing, why isnt david lee starting yet? he seems determined to keep starting channing frye who seems like a doofy bastard running around out there.
 

e_D

Benchwarmer
We're all on the same team here guys. It's been a frustrating start to the season, let's not let that be reason to be at each others throats. Save the sh*t talk for the next Nets or (most likely) Toronto fan than starts running his mouth on the forums.

A little off topic, about the Frye situation.. David Lee I think has become accustomed to coming off the bench for instant energy.. Lee seems mentally tougher than Frye, so if Frye gets benched it might have an adverse effect on his play. Even though sometimes it looks like his play cant get any worse.. But he's been starting to show signs recently, so I think he'll be back on track very soon. At least 14/5 a night, as opposed to the 4/4 we were getting in the first couple games of the season.

Though if they don't find some way to put Lee into the starting line up next year, I'll be pretty pissed.
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
Undersized ballhogs is an exaggeration and a comment typical of some one who doesn't know the team. Both Marbury and Francis are distributing the ball. So that comment doesn't apply to ether player. I've watched two games so far and in both I saw a struggling Marbury failing to score but made some great passes. As I've said before his role has not been clearly defined. That's not an excuse for his poor play, but a lot of people on this site once argued that we need a traditional point guard. Well, now Marbury is playing the role of a traditional point guard. So what should he do? Should he score 16 and make 4 or 5 asts? Or should he be "The Ballhog", take over the game, not let any one else get in a rhythm and score 20-24 pts? If you guys want to criticize Marbury by all means do so but be knowledgable and fair about it.

Look at his stat line from last night, that's why we criticize!!!
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mSqoDc8m_g&eurl=


Thats why he gets paid the money he gets, not to be mr. 2 shots a game.

That's all I'm sayin' dude. I want the Knicks to get better. Its a shame with nationally televised games 4 times a week the Knicks are getting no play. I wish I could see them every night like they show the Lakers or Detriot of Miami but that is not gonna happen until they get better.
 
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donchris

Next season, keep waiting
Seems like the Starbury haters may have been right. It appears that Isiah Thomas is loosing confidence in the backcourt. Curry said it was clear that Thomas was losing patience during the game against the Rockets. “I think we all can see he’s not playing around,” Curry said. Thomas was asked if Marbury and Francis would still be his starting backcourt, Thomas was slow to respond, saying, “Um, yeah.” In case you didn't see or hear, Thomas benched Marbury and Francis after only playing 65 seconds into the second half. Both players commited turnovers.

I like Marbury and Francis and I want them both to do well, but we must face the facts. Nether of them are playing well and they should NOT play together. This may be the first move of many to come from Thomas. I understand that we need energy off the bench but the starting line up of a team is typically made up of the best over-all players. I'm done talking the KG stuff. We needs a real PG cause so far it ant Marbury or Francis.
 

Starks

Starter
Thank God eveyone has finally agreed on Starbury and his detriment to NYC. Hope he can do better someplace else and save his career, I knonw hes a good guy off the court. Lets close the book on him, or get used to his Charlie Ward impression (which i could live with if not for the monster contract and Cablevision force-fed marketing of stephon). No hard feelings to Steph fans, just look at it this way..theres some players New Yorkers love to hate until there gone. Ask AROD
 
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