Possibility of a Jermaine O'Neal Trade

hometheaterguy

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
rady said:
As long as this doesn't invlove our trade picks, i won't have anything against it. But let's not forget JO is getting old and is injured all the time.. i'd rather try something on KG
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Again, I agree! But the Knicks are in a quandary, they need to make a push into the playoffs and at the same time they need to save and develop some of their young talent. But not at the expense of loosing an "A" player. Both KG and JO are A players. I would go after JO because I feel we could get him cheaper that KG. While I feel KG is a better player, they are paralleled with their game and their failures. Both, I feel would clash with Curry and both are older and starting their latter years. JO, I feel playing the 5 spot has hurt him, so bringing him back to the 4 spot would extend his career and elevate his game. That's why I want them to keep Frye and use Lee for the trade. This way Frye can help to elevate some of JOs minutes.
 
ShairanXIII

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
i hope we can get JO and keep craw and lee... i think he and curry can work since JO also has a handle and a mid range J... plus... moving him to the four spot extends his career...
 
metrocard

metrocard

Legend
Honestly, we don't need a PF who demands the ball, but shoots 43% from the FG and averages 3 turnovers added to this team that is turnover prone already.

Curry and O'Neil are guys who both demand the ball...Crawford and Marbury are guys who need to score to be productive. We're not running a Golden State offense here.

Curry is already our primary scoring option. If the trade was Curry and someone else for O'Neil, then I'll do it cause O'Neil is a great defense big man who provides offense. O'Neil only probably is that he doesn't take enough high percentage shots. A man of his size and talent should be shooting 50% and above.

I'm not really crazy for this trade. We have one scoring big man, why do we need another? Just like when we had Marbury, but then we got Francis. THERES NO SENSE OF DIRECTION for this deal, we're just stock piling talent over each other. This type of moves puts ALOT of hype in New York, but results in another disappointing

O'Neil is a great player, and an elite big man...but he's injury prone and demands the ball, and having that in an offense thats runned through Curry, I really doubt it'll ever work out.

And we don't need shot blockers, we need defenders who play great position defense. If Curry comes back next season with some life of defense, and some awareness to pass the ball more often, then we're a 45 win team, no question.

I rather Curry average

15 ppg
8 rebs
2.5 assist
1 blk
2 TO's

Than
20 ppg
6 rebs
under 1 assist
under 1 blk
3.5 TO's

We need Curry to play more within the team than himself, it'll do wonders trust me. If Tim Duncan or KG wanted, these guys would average 30 points in the NBA, but they choose winning over individual sucess. Even though KG doesn't win as much as Duncan, he puts him team in the best position to win. Thats what we need Curry to become. Curry doesn't have to average 20 and 10 and 3 blocks per game and make the all star team, cause he has that type of talent. He needs to get the perimeter guys involved, cause the ball will be in his hands most of the team.

I know I'm asking for too much, and but I'm not gonna give me hopes up, cause this is my favorite team in sports. Even all the bullshit Isiah has slinged at me, I just want a winning team, and less players who have a high tendancy of putting us in losing positions.
 
ShairanXIII

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
metrocard said:
Honestly, we don't need a PF who demands the ball, but shoots 43% from the FG and averages 3 turnovers added to this team that is turnover prone already.

Curry and O'Neil are guys who both demand the ball...Crawford and Marbury are guys who need to score to be productive. We're not running a Golden State offense here.

Curry is already our primary scoring option. If the trade was Curry and someone else for O'Neil, then I'll do it cause O'Neil is a great defense big man who provides offense. O'Neil only probably is that he doesn't take enough high percentage shots. A man of his size and talent should be shooting 50% and above.

I'm not really crazy for this trade. We have one scoring big man, why do we need another? Just like when we had Marbury, but then we got Francis. THERES NO SENSE OF DIRECTION for this deal, we're just stock piling talent over each other. This type of moves puts ALOT of hype in New York, but results in another disappointing

O'Neil is a great player, and an elite big man...but he's injury prone and demands the ball, and having that in an offense thats runned through Curry, I really doubt it'll ever work out.

And we don't need shot blockers, we need defenders who play great position defense. If Curry comes back next season with some life of defense, and some awareness to pass the ball more often, then we're a 45 win team, no question.

I rather Curry average

15 ppg
8 rebs
2.5 assist
1 blk
2 TO's

Than
20 ppg
6 rebs
under 1 assist
under 1 blk
3.5 TO's

We need Curry to play more within the team than himself, it'll do wonders trust me. If Tim Duncan or KG wanted, these guys would average 30 points in the NBA, but they choose winning over individual sucess. Even though KG doesn't win as much as Duncan, he puts him team in the best position to win. Thats what we need Curry to become. Curry doesn't have to average 20 and 10 and 3 blocks per game and make the all star team, cause he has that type of talent. He needs to get the perimeter guys involved, cause the ball will be in his hands most of the team.

I know I'm asking for too much, and but I'm not gonna give me hopes up, cause this is my favorite team in sports. Even all the bullshit Isiah has slinged at me, I just want a winning team, and less players who have a high tendancy of putting us in losing positions.
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dead on... but for that to be truly effective... the knicks need frye, crawford, marbury, collins, balkman, lee, et al. to knock down the open shots he creates... a la shaq in orl/LA... hakeem in hou... if richardson can come back healthy and return to that pho form...
 
hometheaterguy

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
metrocard said:
Honestly, we don't need a PF who demands the ball, but shoots 43% from the FG and averages 3 turnovers added to this team that is turnover prone already.

Curry and O'Neil are guys who both demand the ball...Crawford and Marbury are guys who need to score to be productive. We're not running a Golden State offense here.

Curry is already our primary scoring option. If the trade was Curry and someone else for O'Neil, then I'll do it cause O'Neil is a great defense big man who provides offense. O'Neil only probably is that he doesn't take enough high percentage shots. A man of his size and talent should be shooting 50% and above.

I'm not really crazy for this trade. We have one scoring big man, why do we need another? Just like when we had Marbury, but then we got Francis. THERES NO SENSE OF DIRECTION for this deal, we're just stock piling talent over each other. This type of moves puts ALOT of hype in New York, but results in another disappointing

O'Neil is a great player, and an elite big man...but he's injury prone and demands the ball, and having that in an offense thats runned through Curry, I really doubt it'll ever work out.

And we don't need shot blockers, we need defenders who play great position defense. If Curry comes back next season with some life of defense, and some awareness to pass the ball more often, then we're a 45 win team, no question.

I rather Curry average

15 ppg
8 rebs
2.5 assist
1 blk
2 TO's

Than
20 ppg
6 rebs
under 1 assist
under 1 blk
3.5 TO's

We need Curry to play more within the team than himself, it'll do wonders trust me. If Tim Duncan or KG wanted, these guys would average 30 points in the NBA, but they choose winning over individual sucess. Even though KG doesn't win as much as Duncan, he puts him team in the best position to win. Thats what we need Curry to become. Curry doesn't have to average 20 and 10 and 3 blocks per game and make the all star team, cause he has that type of talent. He needs to get the perimeter guys involved, cause the ball will be in his hands most of the team.

I know I'm asking for too much, and but I'm not gonna give me hopes up, cause this is my favorite team in sports. Even all the bullshit Isiah has slinged at me, I just want a winning team, and less players who have a high tendancy of putting us in losing positions.
Click to expand...

I think you are missing the point of bringing in O'Neil. Yes, he demands the ball like Curry and yes they both take bad shots from time to time. But... O'Neil does one ting consistently that Curry doesn't... Plays D! So, if we could make the trade for him, it would be up to Isiah to get them to exist on the floor together by setting up who's the first option in the post and who's the second. They both can dominate on the offensive side, so if you double team 1, you leave the other open to burn you. If you double both, then you need QR, Steph or Crawford (If we didn't use him in the trade)to bury the long distance shot. That dominate 4 that doesn't shoot (like a Rodman or an Oakley type) is non existent these days. Boozer is the closest thing these days but I feel he is way over paid. KG and Duncan are the same as well. Any of these guys would technically "conflict" with Curry but they would have to figure out their roles. O'neil is a super star and he would have to figure out how to exist with another big man that needs to touch the ball allot.
 
metrocard

metrocard

Legend
hometheaterguy said:
I think you are missing the point of bringing in O'Neil. Yes, he demands the ball like Curry and yes they both take bad shots from time to time. But... O'Neil does one ting consistently that Curry doesn't... Plays D! So, if we could make the trade for him, it would be up to Isiah to get them to exist on the floor together by setting up who's the first option in the post and who's the second. They both can dominate on the offensive side, so if you double team 1, you leave the other open to burn you. If you double both, then you need QR, Steph or Crawford (If we didn't use him in the trade)to bury the long distance shot. That dominate 4 that doesn't shoot (like a Rodman or an Oakley type) is non existent these days. Boozer is the closest thing these days but I feel he is way over paid. KG and Duncan are the same as well. Any of these guys would technically "conflict" with Curry but they would have to figure out their roles. O'neil is a super star and he would have to figure out how to exist with another big man that needs to touch the ball allot.
Click to expand...

Boozer is overpaid, but O'Neil is a super star? Have you seen the playoffs lately? btw, Boozer has a jumpshot, and shoots well from the FT. Lee is developing a jumper and shoots very good from the FT. Lee accually reminds me of a weaker Boozer. We have defense at the 1-2-3 with Marbury, Collins, and Balkman. We need to draft more defense and a back up PG in the draft, if not a back up PG then Rudy Fernandez, who is the best guard right now from Europe.

O'Neil isn't coming to a losing team that won't even make him the first option. I think we already learned our lesson the hard way with bringing in too many guys who demand the ball, regardless of the position they play.

Theres a reason why guys like Diaw, Elson, Biendrins, Gooden, Varejao and others get alot of minutes is because they set good screens, rebound, box out, and play great position defense. They don't need to score or demand the ball to be effective. We need more guys like this centered around Curry. It'll make the game easier for him, hopefully Curry understands the game will be easier if he passes out more to the open perimeter guys.
 
ShairanXIII

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
hometheaterguy said:
I think you are missing the point of bringing in O'Neil. Yes, he demands the ball like Curry and yes they both take bad shots from time to time. But... O'Neil does one ting consistently that Curry doesn't... Plays D! So, if we could make the trade for him, it would be up to Isiah to get them to exist on the floor together by setting up who's the first option in the post and who's the second. They both can dominate on the offensive side, so if you double team 1, you leave the other open to burn you. If you double both, then you need QR, Steph or Crawford (If we didn't use him in the trade)to bury the long distance shot. That dominate 4 that doesn't shoot (like a Rodman or an Oakley type) is non existent these days. Boozer is the closest thing these days but I feel he is way over paid. KG and Duncan are the same as well. Any of these guys would technically "conflict" with Curry but they would have to figure out their roles. O'neil is a super star and he would have to figure out how to exist with another big man that needs to touch the ball allot.
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we also have to remember that Oakley also had that FT line J... if J'Oneal agrees to play more of a face up shooter/2nd post option and plays wicked help defense... this might work... remember JO almost carried indy to the finals when he, artest, jackson and co. weren't brawling/injured... if he can bring 17 pts., 10 boards, 2 blks, 3 assists... then he would be worth it... and the shot less 4 still exists... ben wallace, verajao, camby, dwight howard, diop... these guys create more possessions because of their relentless work on the offensive glass... Lee is already developing into that...

if our rotation is:
starters: marbury, qrich, jj20, JO, Curry
bench unit: collins, crawford, lee, balkman
3rd string: morris, robinson

unless craw or qrich are used in the trade... either way... JO can play both post positions and demands a double team... if he agrees to less touches... i don't see why this wouldn't work though...
 
hometheaterguy

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
metrocard said:
Boozer is overpaid, but O'Neil is a super star? Have you seen the playoffs lately? btw, Boozer has a jumpshot, and shoots well from the FT. Lee is developing a jumper and shoots very good from the FT. Lee accually reminds me of a weaker Boozer. We have defense at the 1-2-3 with Marbury, Collins, and Balkman. We need to draft more defense and a back up PG in the draft, if not a back up PG then Rudy Fernandez, who is the best guard right now from Europe.

O'Neil isn't coming to a losing team that won't even make him the first option. I think we already learned our lesson the hard way with bringing in too many guys who demand the ball, regardless of the position they play.

Theres a reason why guys like Diaw, Elson, Biendrins, Gooden, Varejao and others get alot of minutes is because they set good screens, rebound, box out, and play great position defense. They don't need to score or demand the ball to be effective. We need more guys like this centered around Curry. It'll make the game easier for him, hopefully Curry understands the game will be easier if he passes out more to the open perimeter guys.
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I want to address all your points one at a time:
About Boozer- Yes, he is having an awesome playoff! Do you remember him at the beginning of the season and the past few years? Injury prone and until the playoffs, under achieved.
Yes, you need to have players that have a great understanding of the game and all of the nuances, like setting picks and screens. Reading defenses and offenses as well as creating offense. Diaw, Odem and guys that have an understanding of how a team runs, sort of a PG mentality are very valuable and scarce. Most guys today care about their own game and their stats. I have posted many times that the Knicks should try to sign Varejao with the mid in the off season. I felt he would be a great addition. Still, you can't snub your naose at JO he is capable of elevating his team. Varejao has a long way to go to get to that level.
 
metrocard

metrocard

Legend
I see where you're coming from, and O'Neil would definately upgrade our post defense.

I would love to have Varejao as a back up center, man our post defense would be set, and we would finally have a great flopper and get some calls for once.
 
ShairanXIII

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
While Verajoa would be a great help defender and hustle player... he doesn't address out need for a big defensive 5... Verajoa can play against smaller 5s (6'11" or less) or the weaker guys (Kristic, Mikki More)... but not the yao's, oden's, howard's and shaq's of the world... i think if we can get diop from DAL or Delambert from Phi... that shores up our rebounding and defensive holes...
 
metrocard

metrocard

Legend
Why don't O'Neil demand a trade to Golden State?

Biendrins
Foyle
Richardson

for

O'Neil


GSW
Davis
Jackson
Barnes
Harrington
O'Neil

6th man
Ellis

IND
Tinsley
Richardson
Granger
Diogu
Biendrins


Great deal for both teams.
 
ShairanXIII

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
metrocard said:
Why don't O'Neil demand a trade to Golden State?

Biendrins
Foyle
Richardson

for

O'Neil


GSW
Davis
Jackson
Barnes
Harrington
O'Neil

6th man
Ellis

IND
Tinsley
Richardson
Granger
Diogu
Biendrins


Great deal for both teams.
Click to expand...

JO doesn't fit nellie's schemes... that and Nellie is in love with Beidrins and Richardson... no way he gives up BOTH those guys for a big man with no jumpshot... if chris mullin pulls the trigger on that... it's a sign that nellies on his way out...
 
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