The Modern NBA.

The 1 and Only

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
Toons said:
david stern is a part of exploiting the fact that the hip hop culture is influencing the nba. If the fight with indiana n shit involed all white players, black dudes would still be blinging on the stands if they were injured. Clean up the NBA? how about clean up other sports where their life, records, games are influenced by steroids. Stern is a racist manipulator.
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In my opinion you are right and you are wrong. In my opinion David Stern isn't racist...it's a green thing and he doesn't want to end up like IMUS and lose all of his sponsers. But the hip-hop thing you hit right on the head. I'm sure he doesn't like the fact that the NBA is being heavily influenced my hip-hop. This can be directly linked to 70% of the NBA is Black aka the majority. And since Hip Hop came from African Americans and the Godfather of hip hop Russel Simmons is trying to clean up the game a lil bit, hopefully Stern can ease up on the leash. People forget that the league is mostly made up of African American players...so what do you expect the culture of the league to be?
 
donchris

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
You all have good points. I agree that the rules have hindered the game but you have to dig deeper. Saying the rules are the problem doesn't begin to scratch the surface. We have to understand the reason for the rules. Most of this really came to the forefront with Ron Artest and unsportsmanlike conduct. I agree that the rules are overkill and a bit unnecessary at times, but this is a different day. In the Pat Ewing/ Michael Jordan days it was unthinkable that a player would run up the stands and attack a heckling fan. You never saw Charles Oakley kick a ref in the nuts or Charley Ward get a gun charge. Michael Jordan wasn't indited for sexual molestation. The times are different and like it or not this is what the NBA powers that be have to deal with image wise. It's horrible PR and bad business for the league. Therefore we now have shitty rules. You can't accurately talk about one with out talking about the other.
 
metrocard

metrocard

Legend
The generalization of Black Americans in this thread is accually comical and uninformed. Lets hope people are more informed on what Hip Hop culture is. But then again, these are the same people who think Stern is a racist who's trying to put down the hammer on everyone. Do these uninformed group of people forget that the executive of the NBA is black? lol @ their weak attempt to twist this thing into a race thing, it totally back fired on them. Their reponse will most likely be something ignorant such as "You hate blacks, blah blah crap!".

This could of been a decent thread if the goons didn't bring out the generalization of a diverse group of people that cannot be generalized. No group of people should be generalized for that matter, especially in this country.
 
The 1 and Only

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
donchris said:
You all have good points. I agree that the rules have hindered the game but you have to dig deeper. Saying the rules are the problem doesn't begin to scratch the surface. We have to understand the reason for the rules. Most of this really came to the forefront with Ron Artest and unsportsmanlike conduct. I agree that the rules are overkill and a bit unnecessary at times, but this is a different day. In the Pat Ewing/ Michael Jordan days it was unthinkable that a player would run up the stands and attack a heckling fan. You never saw Charles Oakley kick a ref in the nuts or Charley Ward get a gun charge. Michael Jordan wasn't indited for sexual molestation. The times are different and like it or not this is what the NBA powers that be have to deal with image wise. It's horrible PR and bad business for the league. Therefore we now have shitty rules. You can't accurately talk about one with out talking about the other.
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Agreed. And you're right...times have changed. Ethics and the right thing is not what matters in most people's minds now. It's the money, the cash, the green. And when money comes for people who can't handle it...problems follow. And people use hip-hop and rap synonomously...they are not the same...rap is derived from hip-hop and rap is the reason hip-hop is on its downfall and I can name various reasons....but that's a different story lol. Also rap is synonomous with blacks, and again...Stern is not racist, for someone to think he was racist would be as stupid as to think IT is the complete reason for the downfall of the knicks. But one has to think...when you ban doo-rags...can't wear the bling...one has to think...what is stern up to? One could say he's trying to make everyone look professional and I would definitely agree with that. I'm never caught outside with a doo-rag...but I do keeps my waves sick if you know what i mean lol. And the bling is crazy...if the players want to wear bling then let them wear bling...in most cases it's fashionably correct in accordance to dress to impress. I've seen racism unlike most people with funny, limp opinions on this site and I can say with experience that Stern is not racist. Some people could say that Stern just doesn't want to give that type of image. But whatever you think of Stern, just don't think he's a racist. In all cases he handles things fair and he doesn't have special treatment for any one player. But that's just my opinion...you never know he could have some slavemaster in him lol. Only God can judge!
 
ShairanXIII

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
donchris said:
You all have good points. I agree that the rules have hindered the game but you have to dig deeper. Saying the rules are the problem doesn't begin to scratch the surface. We have to understand the reason for the rules. Most of this really came to the forefront with Ron Artest and unsportsmanlike conduct. I agree that the rules are overkill and a bit unnecessary at times, but this is a different day. In the Pat Ewing/ Michael Jordan days it was unthinkable that a player would run up the stands and attack a heckling fan. You never saw Charles Oakley kick a ref in the nuts or Charley Ward get a gun charge. Michael Jordan wasn't indited for sexual molestation. The times are different and like it or not this is what the NBA powers that be have to deal with image wise. It's horrible PR and bad business for the league. Therefore we now have shitty rules. You can't accurately talk about one with out talking about the other.
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ummm... barkley was spitting on fans and throwing dudes out of bar windows in the 90s... bernard king (the gOD) and michael ray richards did mountains of blow in the 80s... so let's not act like this is the first time athletes have been ill behaved... the problem will always exist whenever you have groups of nouveaux rich people who are unable to deal with the recently acquired wealth... of course there will be knuckle heads in any profession... there are politicians that try to have sex with teenage boys for goodness sake... but that doesn't mean that every politician is evil... neither do the actions of a few morons (stephen jackson, artest, jkidd, penny, etc) should not be used as a basis for judgement against every nba player... BUT... the rule is necessary... those knicks/heat playoffs that we all loved drew abysmal ratings... facts are facts... mainstream america doesn't want to see the slow down game with hard fouls... the spurs/nets and spurs/pistons were some of the lowest rated in the history of the nba... while the heat/mavs were the highest in like 5 years (i might be wrong though)... and look at the ratings those suns, mavs, warriors draw...

metrocard said:
The generalization of Black Americans in this thread is accually comical and uninformed. Lets hope people are more informed on what Hip Hop culture is. But then again, these are the same people who think Stern is a racist who's trying to put down the hammer on everyone. Do these uninformed group of people forget that the executive of the NBA is black? lol @ their weak attempt to twist this thing into a race thing, it totally back fired on them. Their reponse will most likely be something ignorant such as "You hate blacks, blah blah crap!".
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david stern is about profits... mainstream america provides the greatest profit... remember when hip hop SAVED the nba in the 90s... AI wasn't the first cat with tats (remember the worm)... but he was the first that simultaneously embraced and was embraced by hip hop... then the ratings started dropping again... and he realized the new way to go was the european style... BUT... and it's not just him... it's the media too... it's like analysts salivate to talk about dirk and nash for mvp... forever ignoring kobe WHO WAS NEVER CONVICTED BY THE WAY... so the cleaner (whiter) the league becomes (physically and culturally) the more $$$ stern draws... BUT you have to wonder about some of his rules though... the age limit only applies to AMERICAN 18 year olds... euros can come over from age 18... all the HS players that have come out (that I can think of and that says a lot since I know who Samaki Walker is) have been black... this effectively forces the black athlete to toil away uncompensated for the NCAA since the NBDL is a joke... stern isn't a racist... it's just the rest of us...
 
Starks

Starks

Starter
Yikes.. I really didn't mean for this to become a race issue- but despite all our different ethnic backgrounds, we all seem to agree that the NBA is not the same league it was a decade ago.

For the record I'm Cuban- so I'm not sure if that puts me in the middle.

Here are three books I read that shed some light on the subject at hand:

"Sole Power"
-It's about how sneaker companies totally rape and jade these young kids. It contributes to the culture because it shows us how corporations totally milk these kids, and kills their competetive spirit.

"Black Planet"
-It's a book shows us race relations in the NBA. A writer follows the 94' Sonics all season long, and documents the "Master/Slave" stigma of Gary Payton and George Karl

"Taboo"
-One the most controversial books I ever read. It investigates why Black athletes seem to be more athletic than whites, scientifically. It was written by a black man, so he was able to get away with it w/o looking like a racist.


Go to amazon, check them out for yourself.
 
metrocard

metrocard

Legend
ShairanXIII said:
ummm... barkley was spitting on fans and throwing dudes out of bar windows in the 90s... bernard king (the gOD) and michael ray richards did mountains of blow in the 80s... so let's not act like this is the first time athletes have been ill behaved... the problem will always exist whenever you have groups of nouveaux rich people who are unable to deal with the recently acquired wealth... of course there will be knuckle heads in any profession... there are politicians that try to have sex with teenage boys for goodness sake... but that doesn't mean that every politician is evil... neither do the actions of a few morons (stephen jackson, artest, jkidd, penny, etc) should not be used as a basis for judgement against every nba player... BUT... the rule is necessary... those knicks/heat playoffs that we all loved drew abysmal ratings... facts are facts... mainstream america doesn't want to see the slow down game with hard fouls... the spurs/nets and spurs/pistons were some of the lowest rated in the history of the nba... while the heat/mavs were the highest in like 5 years (i might be wrong though)... and look at the ratings those suns, mavs, warriors draw...



david stern is about profits... mainstream america provides the greatest profit... remember when hip hop SAVED the nba in the 90s... AI wasn't the first cat with tats (remember the worm)... but he was the first that simultaneously embraced and was embraced by hip hop... then the ratings started dropping again... and he realized the new way to go was the european style... BUT... and it's not just him... it's the media too... it's like analysts salivate to talk about dirk and nash for mvp... forever ignoring kobe WHO WAS NEVER CONVICTED BY THE WAY... so the cleaner (whiter) the league becomes (physically and culturally) the more $$$ stern draws... BUT you have to wonder about some of his rules though... the age limit only applies to AMERICAN 18 year olds... euros can come over from age 18... all the HS players that have come out (that I can think of and that says a lot since I know who Samaki Walker is) have been black... this effectively forces the black athlete to toil away uncompensated for the NCAA since the NBDL is a joke... stern isn't a racist... it's just the rest of us...
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Hip Hop didn't save the NBA in the 90's, you can say Micheal Jordan did. He popularized the sport globally itself. There are many other sports played by people who live in a Hip Hop enviroment, such as stickball, handball, basketball, street football etc.

I don't know how Kobe is ignored, I think its obviously Kobe is the best talent in the NBA right now.

The age limit is a great thing, March Madness was extremely exciting, and now American born players are more polished when they enter the NBA.

The NBDL isn't a joke, but it can be improved. It doesn't work as well as the MLB minor leagues, but it has help rejuvinate some careers.

Starks, I'll definately take a look at those books. I'm Dominican/Puerto Rican myself.
 
ShairanXIII

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
my bad... i meant the early 21st century... the post jordan era (98 - 03)...

kobe's talent level isn't the issue... the fact is... kobe was poised to be the face of the league until he got charged... when i say he's ignored i refer to mvp voting... subtract kobe from the lakers and they fight with boston and memphis for the most ping pong balls every year... same can't be said about the other mvp candidates...

i'm as happy as anyone about march madness... but the nba and ncaa are two separate organizations... why force an 18 year old with earning potential to put it off for a year and risk injury, a poor showing or anything else that could damage his draft status and earning power...

who exactly benefits from this age limit again? while there are some notable failures (kwame brown, samaki walker), most HS players have developed into productive nba types... and you can't seriously think that the rate of failure for HS athletes is any greater than it is for euros or college guys... HS all stars... lebron, kobe, amare, garnett, dhoward... off the bench you'd have t-mac, curry, joneal, rlewis, tyson chandler, monta ellis... i dare you to field a team of college players or euros that would win more than that bunch...

the problem i have with the nbdl is that teams don't/can't (not sure which) send players down there to develop for an entire season... stern presented it as such... but it hasn't worked out that way... imagine if the knicks could send randolph morris, robinson and balkman to the minors for a couple months... then call them up once they polish their skills...

in no way am i saying their is a grand conspiracy at work here... you look at the affect of the policies... and you see how regardless of intent... the outcome are policies that affect the american black athlete to a greater extent than his european counter part...
 
KNICKSTAPE NATION

KNICKSTAPE NATION

Benchwarmer
tiger0330 said:
Classic thread. ILL this looks like your second time around at KOL what logon were u using before?

Some of those guys still post like Chief, Don, Paris and of course Rady but most of them are gone. Guess you have to expect that after 8 years.
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I use to be sly9184/King~poetiq .. I missed the forum so I came back, hopefully these guys do the same
 
T

tiger0330

Legend
ILLMATIC LIFESTYLE said:
I use to be sly9184/King~poetiq .. I missed the forum so I came back, hopefully these guys do the same
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Glad you're back. Very underrated BBS, we should have more members. You can't do game threads anywhere else like you can do here with images and videos. Rady did this special with tweets where you can embed tweets in posts, I don't think there's another forum where I can have an animated signature of Zinger like I have and Rady is always there to help.
 
KNICKSTAPE NATION

KNICKSTAPE NATION

Benchwarmer
tiger0330 said:
Glad you're back. Very underrated BBS, we should have more members. You can't do game threads anywhere else like you can do here with images and videos. Rady did this special with tweets where you can embed tweets in posts, I don't think there's another forum where I can have an animated signature of Zinger like I have and Rady is always there to help.
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Appreciate it bro and yea you're right. This site always had the potential to be the best Knicks page on earth.

I've been talking to Rady about helping out, so I'ma do what I can to contribute from now on
 
B

Broadway

All Star
ILLMATIC LIFESTYLE said:
Appreciate it bro and yea you're right. This site always had the potential to be the best Knicks page on earth.

I've been talking to Rady about helping out, so I'ma do what I can to contribute from now on
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Knicksonline is a combination of RealGM/Insidehoops/Ultimateknicks. I love posting here
 
T

Tkf

Benchwarmer
Starks said:
Like many of the scarce viewers of the NBA, I am completley outraged by the league's handling of the Suns/Spurs series.

I realized something though, and what I realized directly explains most of the reasons old school knick fans like myself have such a difficult time adapting to the modern team we have now.

Simply said, the game is not the same. The years of bitter physcial rivalries, ala Knicks/Bulls, Knicks/Heat, Lakers/Celts, Bulls/Pistons, Jazz/Rockets, are gone. I hate to use the phrase "evoloution of the game", but the NBA slowly changed the game from the inside out.

What started as minor rule changes worked its way to an almost league wide image lockdown. Hard fouls are met with suspensions. Trash talk is met with demerits. In this league, our beloved Oakley/Mason/Starks team simply would not have any room to exist.

The NBA's widely unpopular ruling of Amare and Diow being removed from game 5's roster, is a a byproduct of this "modern" NBA. And while the Stern, fights tooth and nail to support the NBA's properites overseas and at home- his objective it to apease the clean cut advertisers interest first. He has ever right to since the advertisers inject the revenue that keeps the league afloat. But in a world where comrporations must be as squeeky clean as a presidential candidate to survive, Stern knows that he needs to take every measure he can to ensure his league is presented as PG as possible. The R rated ABA died, and the PG-13 NBA that Knicks we used to love played in, has officaily died the moment Tuesday's ruling came.

I have a hard time accepting it, but it's time to let our beloved gritty Knick lore go. It's in the past guys, and will never be resurfaced again. I think once we accept this, chew on it for a few weeks-as disgusting a taste it is, we will learn to swallow our pride and root for a fisher-price league.

Many people stopped watching the NBA becuase of "prima donna, spoiled players". I think there wrong. I think it is the "De-evolotuion" of the NBA that explains why fans are changing the channel.

K, i just had to get that out. Thank god for Mets baseball, or I'd have no sports to watch anymore.
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I am glad you started this thread, as a life long NBA fan, I have seen this game at it's pinnacle and the product I see today is nothing close. Now don't get me wrong, we have some world class athletes playing the game today, but they are not the same quality of well rounded ball players I grew up watching in the early 80's and 90's .

the rules changes have softened the game, starting with the hand check rule.. The knicks Derrick Harper stymied a young kenny Anderson in the playoffs with physical play and tough hand checking techniques, the NBA didn't like that..many will say the handcheck rules were there to help protect Jordan, but honestly, jordan was a beast with handchecking. Just think, guys like magic, mo cheeks, payton, dennis johnson, etc, all of those guards were fantastic playing with these rules, scorers like Bernard king and Alex english were not slowed by physical play and handchecking.

The NBA has used new soft rules to help manufacture some of todays stars, the endless parade to the free throw line that enables mid 40% shooters to post ridiculous stat lines..

The big man is being phased out and that is a shame, when the game is played inside out, it is a joy to watch... this one on one chuck fest, backing up to midcourt , full head of steam charge to the basket is ugly basketball.... James harden is a very good player.. watching him take 5 euro steps to the basket and flail his arms is ridiculous, he is good enough to score without that. the league has enabled a lof of these guys and their shenanigans. I am hoping for change, but I doubt it. The NBA is making a lot of TV money, and these players, every last one of them are grossly overpaid. For a sport that ranks 5th in this country in viewership , behind the NFL, MLB, auto racing and college football, you can only wonder when this NBA bubble will burst... for the love of god a backup forward, tristian thompson got 80+ million!!!!
 
B

Broadway

All Star
ILLMATIC LIFESTYLE said:
Are those the only well-known forums or are there more?
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Those are probably amongst the highest rated for Knicks discussion(volume users) but heavily biased and ultra homerism. Scout.com and Clutchcity.com and Lakersground.net are highly saturated non Knicks sites that can provide a bevy of info when needed. I tried using Twitter to drum up some interest on this site. I think it will pickup if the Knicks can somehow turn things around quickly.
 
T

tiger0330

Legend
Tkf said:
I am glad you started this thread, as a life long NBA fan, I have seen this game at it's pinnacle and the product I see today is nothing close. Now don't get me wrong, we have some world class athletes playing the game today, but they are not the same quality of well rounded ball players I grew up watching in the early 80's and 90's .

the rules changes have softened the game, starting with the hand check rule.. The knicks Derrick Harper stymied a young kenny Anderson in the playoffs with physical play and tough hand checking techniques, the NBA didn't like that..many will say the handcheck rules were there to help protect Jordan, but honestly, jordan was a beast with handchecking. Just think, guys like magic, mo cheeks, payton, dennis johnson, etc, all of those guards were fantastic playing with these rules, scorers like Bernard king and Alex english were not slowed by physical play and handchecking.

The NBA has used new soft rules to help manufacture some of todays stars, the endless parade to the free throw line that enables mid 40% shooters to post ridiculous stat lines..

The big man is being phased out and that is a shame, when the game is played inside out, it is a joy to watch... this one on one chuck fest, backing up to midcourt , full head of steam charge to the basket is ugly basketball.... James harden is a very good player.. watching him take 5 euro steps to the basket and flail his arms is ridiculous, he is good enough to score without that. the league has enabled a lof of these guys and their shenanigans. I am hoping for change, but I doubt it. The NBA is making a lot of TV money, and these players, every last one of them are grossly overpaid. For a sport that ranks 5th in this country in viewership , behind the NFL, MLB, auto racing and college football, you can only wonder when this NBA bubble will burst... for the love of god a backup forward, tristian thompson got 80+ million!!!!
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Great description of the modern game. Al Jefferson was bemoaning the the loss of a back to the basket game in today's NBA and said that all things run in cycles and that back to the basket post basketball would return someday but he might retired whenever it comes back.

Aesthetically I don't know, Yao and JVG in Houston ran that outside in style of bball trying to get high percentage buckets with Yao's exquisite post game, he was a pleasure to watch and I'd much rather watch a skilled center like that than the best centers in the modern era that are great athletes and Sports Center snippets with their alley oops but can't hit a FT if their lives depended on it.

But as far as an overall game, JVG ran a slow half court offense using all of the shot clock dumping the ball into Yao and kicking the ball out to T-Mac when the double teams and defense covered Yao. It was slow, grind it out basketball that eventually the Rockets abandoned to go more up tempo and caused the Rockets not to renew JVG's contract. Coincidentally, it was the last coaching job JVG held perhaps because some owners don't think that's a style of bball that can sell seats in this era of run and gun bball.
 
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