What's Wrong With The League 2

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The 1 and Only

Rotation player
I am not 17...get your facts straight You just turned 19...that would mean you are younger than me. Please don't insult me with your assumptions...I have shown respect to your posts and I have only disagreed with you. I only expect the same...
 

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
ShairanXIII, Anderson Varejao is an excellent defender. He does other things than FLOP. Rebounding, position defense, he takes more charges than flop. Anderson Varejao changes the pace of the game, cause he's an energy guy who's mostly in the right position at the right time, why hate a guy for being good at that? Who cares if you play down low? You never been in NBA competition, and you never experienced NBA physicallity, ever. Your experience is irrevelant to what guys like Varejao and Kurt Thomas fight through ever night, so why try to use that against me as if saying I have no damn experience or business talking about what is it like in the post? Varejao flops, but Detroit didn't lose because of that. Flopping is becoming overrated honestly, dude acts like if a guy flops, he loses the entire game. LOL, Rasheed is such a defeated pussy, guy has one of the worst attitudes in the game, I can't like that guy honestly. Speaking of intregity, where is Sheed's? He should be the last to be complain.

Rasheed sucked and choked on his team on the 3 most important games of the season. He shouldnt even be complaining. 4-13 5-14 FG preformances? Disgusting. Thats a bigger problem for Detroit than Varejao's flopping.

Kidd deserved the MVP award when he first played in NJ.
Nash deserved his two MVP awards, statitically, his team's sucess that season, and how many guys stats improved that season. Doesn't matter if he's overrated or if isn't better than the NBA ledgends. Nash was in the perfect situation, and took that opportunity and capitalized. Thats what sucessful people do, they capitalist on their opportunity.

Suns offense would be good under any PG. But it wouldn't be great as with a Nash or Kidd.

To end it, the MVP could of been given to Kobe, Nash, Lebron, Duncan. They're all great players and have a reason for being the MVP. That is what is awesome about the NBA, the talent is insane, the MVP debate is always a hot debate.

First off... i never said verejao was a bad defender... i said flopping is a pussy way to defend someone stronger than you... if you actually read my post instead of picking it apart... you'd notice that i made a reference to the difference between drawing charges and flopping... which is the same thing you do for 3 sentences... why spend time typing something we both agree on?

it's interesting that you'd dismiss my experience as a post player... you're right... i never played in the NBA... but i have played with collegiate standouts, top high school prospects and street ballers... i was simply bringing my frame of reference... I know what it's like to bang against stronger guys... and i know what it's like to bang against weaker guys... seems like you got issues with your position... bottom line is... when you're playing someone stronger... there are other ways to defend them... you can front them... move them out of the post (a sharp bow in the lower back is uncomfortable)... deny the entry pass... you don't have to pussy out and flop everytime someone turns a shoulder into you...

scroll up youngin... cuz i aint 19 either... notice that i said sheed should grow the f*&% up and stop complaining too... again... why waste your time reiterating my position? did sheed's offensive performance hurt detroit? yep... but they were also within striking distance at the time he fouled out... when momentum shifts in a big game... lebron's ridicilous fast break layup... gibson's three... sheed's techs... it's hard to overcome... i would mention my in game experience here again... but i guess only professionals should comment on such things...

as for Nash v. Kidd... we agree on that... and i never took anything away from steve nash... but the mvp award is something sacred in the nba... prolly more so than the finals mvp... and the sports writers who vote for it were dick riding nash hard the two years he won... AGAIN... this is not Nash's fault... but his awards were fraudulent... given the PRECEDENT set from previous mvp races...

Since 1 and Only didn't mention it... the "thug" mentality that I speak about is not an insult to the players themselves... but a reflection of the perception of the league from the mainstream... if you stop looking to disagree all the time... you'd notice that we got the same views on a lot of this shit... but you overgeneralize my views...
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
Rashard is a big crybaby, like most guys in the NBA. He killed his own team and is still bitching. If he's such a great defender, why was Lebron in the paint all day like it was his business? Tell Sheed to stop crying and chucking threes. Anderson Varejao made Sheed have a pussy fit and owned him. Cavs win and advance to the finals, wheres the real defense? Ginobili, Varejao, and others, its going to be a FLOP FEST.

Well said ShairanXIII...I had to address the BS situation before we got down to business lol. Anyways the guys name is Rasheed...just a minor error. But I agree with you on this...didn't you see me agree with Shairan when he said that about Rasheed? C'mon man you gotta read what is said before you state something that doesn't have to be argued. Well I almost agreed with you...Chucking threes? Varejao owned Rasheed? Why was Lebron in the paint all day? Luckily you came to the right with all this queries LOL. First off Rasheed shot some threes...you use the word chuck too loosely...Crawford chucks up shots...rasheed does not. Bad generalization. Secondly, Varejao didn't own Rasheed. Are we watching the same game? If Varejao owned him...then why does he flop against him? Thaaat's right because the only way to beat somebody better than you is to flop and get into rasheed's head which isn't very hard to do by the way. And last but not least why is Lebron in the paint all day? :teeth: You serious? Pistons played a zone with all 5 players having one foot in the paint and he still was in the paint. Plain and simple, Lebron goes where he wants and no one can really stop him on most occasions.

You can't agrue with it. Thug is an insult, most NBA players are professionals, some even business men. Some have made mistakes in their lives, just like other atheletes, what makes NBA players so different to call them thugs? Do your research. Unless you want to define thug, which you showed you're not willing to show your definition of it, then be quiet about it. I'm not going to wikipedia shit, this is me and you, our debate. Don't tell me your going to need to use wikipedia now bro...lol. Just joking here, NBA does alot of charity and community work, they really promote that and done a job of it. Don't let some player's mistake change your perception on the league.

You're right we can't argue about it. Because you are arguing about the way I use the term but before we were arguing about the way they played in the old school. I can't keep up with you man lol. If you're going to argue a point, please stick to that point or what's the point of arguing it?


How can you be an old school fan when you're not even 18?, your weird my dude. You can atleast appreciate it, but damn you sport it to the death.

I'm accually 19 right now since you're so interested. If you don't watch Euroleague basketball, then don't speak of it. Its a totally different atmosphere than the NBA, and very competitive fundamental basketball. Not as talented as the NBA, but for people who appreciate fundamental team 5 on 5 basketball, Euroleague is great and fun to watch. You weren't even alive in the 70s, and 80's...you probably sit home all day and watch NBA classic games. That doesn't mean you know everything about old school. Regardless if you did, its irrevelant to today and the era we're in.

You just made yourself look stupid kid. :teeth:...should teach not to assume info about other people. That's great that your 19 and everything but no one cares. Only you do...so you can keep that to yourself. And if you're all for fundamentals then watch the WNBA. I watch the WNBA and the NBA and I love both. I could careless about the Euroleague...it doesn't interest me. Possibly if they played some defense and showed that they can be physical then I would possibly watch it. The WNBA show that they can physical...why can't the Euroleague??

How can you hate on Stern too?
Who's hating on stern? I just read my post 50 times and I don't see Stern's name mentioned.

When you say they didn't accomplish anything, you were afraid to come out and say it, but I'll do it for you. Suns didn't accomplish anything cause they didn't win the NBA Finals? I see. So only one team a year can accomplish something? The Mavericks didn't make history this season right? I mean having one of the greatest records in NBA history is accomplishing nothing. So the MVP should be awarded to the best player on the team who accomplishes "something" like win the NBA finals?

I guess this kid never heard about the NBA Finals MVP.

Then why do they give the season MVP a 1/3 of the way through the playoffs? That's another one of my beefs with the league. The MVP should be given at the end of the regular season. What was the excuse when Amare won ROY over Yao? Because Amare is in the playoffs and Yao isnt...so it goes both ways. But that is besides the point. He's won two MVP's kid...only a handful of players can say that and guess what...they all have rings. When you give somebody back to back MVPs then you are automatically putting that person in a whole different echelon of players. The all-time great echelon. Steve Nash isn't even one of the top 50 players of all time and he has 2 MVPs...wow. Nash is a great PG, but he is also overrated. You prove my point exactly...Nash and the Suns have accomplished nothing this season. They have just as much hardware as we do this season...Nothing. Again...the true MVP's are in the NBA Finals right now...Lebron and Duncan....not Nash.

Stop comparing Nash to players who aren't even in the league, you're obsessed with older generation players I don't even know what you're talking about. It feels like your giving me a boring lecture on the greatest of the ledgends. I know they're great, thats nice. I didn't say Nash was better than them, so stop wasting your energy typing on something so off topic and irrevelant.

Oh...so you're mad that I'm obsessed with the league's all-time greats? The very foundation of players that built the game to where it is today. The exact same players that are idolized by such people as lebron and duncan. The greats that you know nothing about. It's not my fault you don't know your history kid...read a book and you might get a glimpse from the past. I know you didn't say Nash was better than them...that would be obsurd. But what you are doing is legitmizing Nash's MVPs which again puts him in another echelon of players. Can't do that man...because he's not that great to be up in another echelon. The guy hasn't even made it to a championship yet...neither a conference or an NBA championship.

I like Kidd over Nash, Kidd is accually to me the best PG in the world right now. He's just playing with the wrong players, like a pussy like Vince Carter(and you said American players are all tough, old school and non floppers like Euros). "If" Kidd was on the Suns, they'd kick ass.

I agree with you Kidd is surrounded by a soft team. And I agree..VC is soft. And I would like you to show me (quote me by the way) where I said all american players were tough and old school. Show me...show the world where I said that LOL. You'll be looking for days because I didn't say that. Rip hamilton is another soft american player. You over generalize too much, read my words as they are and not what you want them to think.

I disagreed with you (just like most people on this forum) with more than 75% of the stuff you said but I respect your opinion because that's what I do. I agree to disagree. But I know you're going to respond anyways LOL.
 

metrocard

Legend
The 1 and Only, you are 17. You took your info out of your profile. Last I checked, it said you were 17. You're lying about your age now? Atleast have some confidence in yourself when you type guy.

Rasheed took 296 3pt shots this season, he took 434 3pt shots the year before. He's one of the biggest chucking big man in the NBA and is completely overrated and SOFT. He always shys away from the point, even Frye is a better rebounder than Sheed. Varejao had more value to his team than Rasheed. Rasheed is too many negatives like chuck up bad shots, not out rebound his oppoent, failing to take high percentage shots and getting all these techinicals and bringing this negative energy to his team. Varejao came in the game and Clevand played with a spark. Its not gonna show up on the stat sheet, but Varejao has great intangles that connects the Cavs together as a team with the BEAST Lebron James who's one of the most talented players I ever witness live since MJ or Carlos Arroyo in the olympics.


lol...you're the only kid I know that watches the WNBA, you're most def a weirdo.

Stop showing your retardation, you're smarter than this b

You said.
"The WNBA show that they can physical...why can't the Euroleague??"

First of all, you don't even watch the Euroleague. English wasn't my first language, but physical is a verb now? What language they speak down in there in the country?

When you win back to back MVP's, it adds to the guy's resume as a sucessful NBA player in his ERA. No one is comparing Nash to players from the 80's and 70's, shut the fuck up already about that. Nash isn't going to be a top 50 player of all time. Nash exploded into his prime and blew up. Career wise, Nash is a 14 and 7 player. But why take credit away from Nash for taking advantage of an opportunity in his career? Don't mind me too I curse alot.

"When you say they didn't accomplish anything, you were afraid to come out and say it, but I'll do it for you. Suns didn't accomplish anything cause they didn't win the NBA Finals? I see. So only one team a year can accomplish something? The Mavericks didn't make history this season right? I mean having one of the greatest records in NBA history is accomplishing nothing. So the MVP should be awarded to the best player on the team who accomplishes "something" like win the NBA finals?"

You've failed to reply to that.


If you were so sure on what you were talking about, you wouldn't be...typing...like this...when you...type...like this...you're...thinking...off...bullshit...from...your...asshole...stop...typing...bullshit.

I'm not obsessed with NBA 70's-80's era, but I have an idea of. You could read all the books you want, it's not going to help your agruement if you don't apply the knowledge my brotha. You know whats a terrible thing? Wasted knowledge and talent. Don't be greedy man, share whatever knowledge you got, and save the bullshit. If you know about NBA ledgends, that cute. But it has nothing to do with Nash's accomplishes as a NBA player in the 04-07 seasons. Nash did what he had to do in HIS era, and got rewarded for being the most VALUEable player in the NBA.

As for me, I'm best poster in this forum, highly confidence and the best looking guy in here. You wanna get mad about it? I don't care. Thats what I know and could give a damn what anyone else thinks. I spend my little free time discussing the NBA and my favorite team in sports the Knicks. I'm not looking to disagree or agree with anyone, its sharing knowledge and opinion with others, which you continue to fail at effortlessly. Stop trying to be competitive, its a cooperation (LOL, I stole that from Spirit of Truth...that dude is hilarious)

Shar, Nash is a deserving MVP. There were other guys who deserved it, but Nash had the most reasons for deserving the MVP those two seasons.

MVP doesn't mean the best player in the NBA, but the player with the most worth, importance, and impact. Nash show cased that in Phoneix for the last 3 years.





..............AND to end this agruement with ease cause I'm sick with it

Bill Laimbeer has been flopping long before Euro players came in the NBA. And Laimbeer is one of the most toughest "old school" guys to play in the last two decades.

Flopping started when the nba stopped letting people play defense. It used to be that a travel was a travel, palming the ball was a double dribble, a charge was a charge, and offensive superstars weren't allowed to do whatever they pleased at the expense of good defensive basketball.

Things changed and the superstar mentality took over. Basically, everytime Jordan, Nique, now Wade, drove the lane and forced contact, it was a block regardless how long the defender had been camping in the lane. Legitimate charges were ignored, to the point it became ridiculous.

Eventually, that type of officiating rubbed off and instead of just the Jordans getting the calls, then second-tier offensive players from Kenny Smith to Kenny Walker got those calls. For a few years there, nothing was a charge, nothing was a push off, nothing was a travel, and the double dribble, and illegal screen. The only way anybody got a charge call was if the offensive player literally ran over the defender and sent him flying on his backside. When that happened, the refs HAD to make the call against the offensive player.

So, in response, defenders learned that only flagrant offensive fouls/violations were going to be called, so they had to learn to make everything LOOK flagrant to have any hope of getting the call go the right way. They knew there was not going to be a charge call, even if it was legit, unless you fell down and looked like you had been shot. Other than that it was another blocking foul and the parade of free throws went on and on and on.

As a result, these dudes learned to flop.

So, blame it on the officiating that bred the atmosphere by which a defender could not get a call unless he fell down. You are both wrong to say euros are at fault for bringing flopping into the NBA when it was created by the atmosphrere in the NBA that refs created and players had to adjust to. At least they are calling offensive fouls now. Dudes are just doing what they have to do.
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
The 1 and Only, you are 17. You took your info out of your profile. Last I checked, it said you were 17. You're lying about your age now? Atleast have some confidence in yourself when you type guy.

Son...I never put my age, location or anything in my profile in the first place so how did you imagine the number 17 in my profile. Face it...you are a kid...I am a man. This subject is not arguable, I know my age...I don't have to let the whole world know what I'm doing when I'm doing it like you do. It's kinda sad really...you lose every part of the argument so now you're trying to argue my age? :teeth: Let's keep it simple...when you lose an argument, you just lose... quit trying to go personal. I refuse to go back to that point...I thought you learned by now but obviously you didn't. The rest of your argument is garbage and I've proven my points. Just go read my posts a lil harder, I'm sure you'll find the answer. Other than that...God bless you.

Anyways...the flops have to go...it's violating the game. I don't care if the dude is black, white, puerto rican, moon martian, whatever....it violates the game. Yes the game is changing but I don't know about most of you people...but I want the game of basketball to change for the better not for the worst. And yes...flopping is making the game worse...
 
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ShairanXIII

Rotation player
Metro...

sometimes i think you like arguing more than debating though... the last part of your argument was good and mostly true... but it still doesn't mean that flopping isn't bringing down the overall quality of the game... so does shitty officiating and shitty rules... and for real... read The 1 and Only's response to the Nash MVP debate... here are the back to back MVPs in nba history:

Steve Nash (2004 & 2006)
Tim Duncan (2002 and 2003)
Michael Jordan (1991 and 1992)
Magic Johnson (1989 and 1990)
Larry Bird (1984-86)
Moses Malone (1982-83)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1976 and 1977, 1971 and 1972)
Wilt Chamberlain (1967-68)
Bill Russell (1961-63)

you can argue opinions but facts are facts... the greatest players of their eras... the back to back MVPs... are legends that won when it mattered the most... in the finals... the nba doesn't admit it... writers hate admitting it... but with rings come multiple awards... period... nash is the ONLY guy on that list to never make it out of his conference... therefore his MVPs are fraudulent... hopefully... you can argue the substance of someone's words... and not disagree to show how well you can disagree... it just lessens the power of your other arguments my dude... you can do better than that...
 

metrocard

Legend
Son...I never put my age, location or anything in my profile in the first place so how did you imagine the number 17 in my profile. Face it...you are a kid...I am a man. This subject is not arguable, I know my age...I don't have to let the whole world know what I'm doing when I'm doing it like you do. It's kinda sad really...you lose every part of the argument so now you're trying to argue my age? :teeth: Let's keep it simple...when you lose an argument, you just lose... quit trying to go personal. I refuse to go back to that point...I thought you learned by now but obviously you didn't. The rest of your argument is garbage and I've proven my points. Just go read my posts a lil harder, I'm sure you'll find the answer. Other than that...God bless you.

Anyways...the flops have to go...it's violating the game. I don't care if the dude is black, white, puerto rican, moon martian, whatever....it violates the game. Yes the game is changing but I don't know about most of you people...but I want the game of basketball to change for the better not for the worst. And yes...flopping is making the game worse...


A...man...who...types...like...he...is...always...uncertain...all...the...time.

Dude, why would I make that up? You had in your profile you were some 17 year old church boy from West Virginia, not even NYC. Now you cleared your profile after I mention this a long time ago. Its nothing to be ashamed of. You use to text like a little e-thug on here before you met me. You don't have to change yourself infront of me...lol @ lying about the ages now. You failed countless times to prove your points....because...you...type...like this. People who type like that don't have a fucking clue what they're saying. Make some firm statements that are informational and logical dude...why would I agree with bullshit? Fuck that.

LOL...chill out there reverend, you said "god bless you" ahahahahahaha, mad funny yo.


BTW, you didn't even reply to my post about flopping, you just regurtitated your bullshit and spewed it at the computer again...read, THEN REPLY...don't restate what you said earlier.
 
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metrocard

Legend
Atleast Shai admits to good post(100% of my post).

ANYONE can post a list of MVP's, you failed to give an explaination on why Nash is not a deserving MVP in his ERA.

I already explained to you and the child that no one said Nash is better than those guys on that list, NO ONE here said that. Stop assuming things and bringing useless information that isn't related to why Nash was a deserving MVP for 3 years in a row, and will continue to BE a deserving MVP till he stops producing the numbers he produce.

Michael Jordan (1991 and 1992)
Magic Johnson (1989 and 1990)
Larry Bird (1984-86)
Moses Malone (1982-83)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1976 and 1977, 1971 and 1972)
Wilt Chamberlain (1967-68)
Bill Russell (1961-63)


^ Thats cute. All those guys are better than Nash. Who cares tho?

2004-05 2005-06
Nash deserved to be recognized as MVP in the NBA in that TIME PERIOD, not the guys I just listed above.


The attempts to take credit from Nash gets weaker and weaker. Just let it rest, Lebron, Nash, Kobe, Duncan and KG are all deserving MVP's cause of their value and worth, regardless if their teams win the Finals. Theres an agruement for those 5...and will always be. But there is NO AGRUEMENT at all, to say Nash did not deserve MVP the last two years, only an ignorant slut would agrue that, seriously.
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
A...man...who...types...like...he...is...always... uncertain...all...the...time.

Dude, why would I make that up? You had in your profile you were some 17 year old church boy from West Virginia, not even NYC. Now you cleared your profile after I mention this a long time ago. Its nothing to be ashamed of. You use to text like a little e-thug on here before you met me. You don't have to change yourself infront of me...lol @ lying about the ages now. You failed countless times to prove your points....because...you...type...like this. People who type like that don't have a fucking clue what they're saying. Make some firm statements that are informational and logical dude...why would I agree with bullshit? Fuck that.

LOL...chill out there reverend, you said "god bless you" ahahahahahaha, mad funny yo.


BTW, you didn't even reply to my post about flopping, you just regurtitated your bullshit and spewed it at the computer again...read, THEN REPLY...don't restate what you said earlier.

Atleast Shai admits to good post(100% of my post).

ANYONE can post a list of MVP's, you failed to give an explaination on why Nash is not a deserving MVP in his ERA.

I already explained to you and the child that no one said Nash is better than those guys on that list, NO ONE here said that. Stop assuming things and bringing useless information that isn't related to why Nash was a deserving MVP for 3 years in a row, and will continue to BE a deserving MVP till he stops producing the numbers he produce.

Michael Jordan (1991 and 1992)
Magic Johnson (1989 and 1990)
Larry Bird (1984-86)
Moses Malone (1982-83)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1976 and 1977, 1971 and 1972)
Wilt Chamberlain (1967-68)
Bill Russell (1961-63)


^ Thats cute. All those guys are better than Nash. Who cares tho?

2004-05 2005-06
Nash deserved to be recognized as MVP in the NBA in that TIME PERIOD, not the guys I just listed above.


The attempts to take credit from Nash gets weaker and weaker. Just let it rest, Lebron, Nash, Kobe, Duncan and KG are all deserving MVP's cause of their value and worth, regardless if their teams win the Finals. Theres an agruement for those 5...and will always be. But there is NO AGRUEMENT at all, to say Nash did not deserve MVP the last two years, only an ignorant slut would agrue that, seriously.

Why must you go personal? A real man can hold his tongue...there for you're a lil baby girl that likes to cuss all the time when you get shut down. I've shut you down...you're trying to play a lil word war game with me...now that's cute :teeth:. Quit acting like one of my females and man up if you expect to hold an argument with me.

:teeth: so you are saying that I'm 17, yet you don't even know me. Search this whole site...search the archives since you like to stalk people...show me one shred of evidence that states that I am 17...and get another witness also (since there are none LOL).

ShairanXIII and I have made valid points to back statements up...you have not. Until you do that...I will not argue with you...you aren't on my level. Everything you say is opinion and not based on fact...step ya game up and quit disrespecting people.
 

metrocard

Legend
ShairanXIII and I have made valid points to back statements up.

LMAO...dude, Shairan just totally co-signed with my point about flopping...you're too ignorant and close-minded to even read over it and realize you're totally wrong that Euros are at fault for "bring flopping to the NBA"."

It doesn't look really cool when you say you get girls online. Only depressed unemployed losers type that shit online, cause they have nothing in reality to brag about. If someone hurts your feelings online don't leave out personal stuff like, cause you make yourself easier to be laughed at...when you try harder you look more desperate you understand? Girls don't like desperate guys.

Nah, I don't have all the free time in the world like you to be doing that stuff. If you're ashamed of your age, thats fine. Why you're sweating it for? If you really wasn't lying about it, you wouldn't be sweating it, right? Calm down kid...no one is disrespecting you. If you feel you can't add anymore valid informational post about flopping or the MVP discussion, then callate la boca man...don't make yourself look dumb as you already are...or just do what Shar did and be logical, open minded, and reasonable. Basically every reply I did with Shar I co-signed and disagree, I was open to what he was saying, but I also explained clearly my view of the whole agruement. You fail to do everything. I think the only thing you can do properly on this forum is this :teeth:

Hahaha, jokes, don't cry about it now.
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
Metro...

sometimes i think you like arguing more than debating though... the last part of your argument was good and mostly true... but it still doesn't mean that flopping isn't bringing down the overall quality of the game... so does shitty officiating and shitty rules... and for real... read The 1 and Only's response to the Nash MVP debate... here are the back to back MVPs in nba history:

Steve Nash (2004 & 2006)
Tim Duncan (2002 and 2003)
Michael Jordan (1991 and 1992)
Magic Johnson (1989 and 1990)
Larry Bird (1984-86)
Moses Malone (1982-83)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1976 and 1977, 1971 and 1972)
Wilt Chamberlain (1967-68)
Bill Russell (1961-63)

you can argue opinions but facts are facts... the greatest players of their eras... the back to back MVPs... are legends that won when it mattered the most... in the finals... the nba doesn't admit it... writers hate admitting it... but with rings come multiple awards... period... nash is the ONLY guy on that list to never make it out of his conference... therefore his MVPs are fraudulent... hopefully... you can argue the substance of someone's words... and not disagree to show how well you can disagree... it just lessens the power of your other arguments my dude... you can do better than that...

Atleast Shai admits to good post(100% of my post).
Show me where he said he agreed to 100% of your post LOL. You really need to quit making stuff up.

With that I don't really have to type much LOL. ShairanXIII basically just reiterated what I've been saying all along. Like what I said Nash is a good player but he's not a great and with those two MVPs they are inflating the value of the MVP. The current state of MVPs, with Nash and Nowitski being the two latest winners respectively, are falling because these MVPs aren't MVPs...they are just good players on good teams. Dirk can't take over a game like an MVP should neither can Nash. Jason Kidd can, Lebron can, AI, Tim Duncan, KG, and Shaq. AI, Duncan, and Shaq have won this honor and the rest haven't. You think I compare Nash to the early greats? Then you aren't reading my posts, you are only generalizing it and should read it more thoroughly. When you win 2 MVPs (consecutively)...you are automatically putting him above everybody else. That's just the way it is. And no Nash doesn't deserve it because he didn't make it to the championship...he doesn't deserve it because Duncan and Lebron are more deserving. You take Duncan and Lebron off their teams...they don't get a championship ring...period.
 

metrocard

Legend
Show me where he said he agreed to 100% of your post LOL. You really need to quit making stuff up.

With that I don't really have to type much LOL. ShairanXIII basically just reiterated what I've been saying all along. Like what I said Nash is a good player but he's not a great and with those two MVPs they are inflating the value of the MVP. The current state of MVPs, with Nash and Nowitski being the two latest winners respectively, are falling because these MVPs aren't MVPs...they are just good players on good teams. Dirk can't take over a game like an MVP should neither can Nash. Jason Kidd can, Lebron can, AI, Tim Duncan, KG, and Shaq. AI, Duncan, and Shaq have won this honor and the rest haven't. You think I compare Nash to the early greats? Then you aren't reading my posts, you are only generalizing it and should read it more thoroughly. When you win 2 MVPs (consecutively)...you are automatically putting him above everybody else. That's just the way it is. And no Nash doesn't deserve it because he didn't make it to the championship...he doesn't deserve it because Duncan and Lebron are more deserving. You take Duncan and Lebron off their teams...they don't get a championship ring...period.

First, can you stop...typing...like...this...I feel like when I read your post, it seems like you typed it off the head, with no research and a lot of bullshit. This is one of the primary reasons I have to correct you all the time. If you proof read your stuff, I wouldn't have anything to say to you.

If you're not comparing Nash to the greats, then why are mentioning all these NBA ledgends for? I never said Nash was better than them, SAY WHAT YOU MEAN...don't be afraid boy.

And remember one thing, all time great players aren't based on two seasons. Let the whole thing go, its taking your agruement no where.

Okay your agruement is

Nash isn't a great player
He's not worthy of MVP.

Let me shut down your agruement completely right now with ease.

Nash is atleast a top 10 NBA player right now, go ahead and name 10 guys in the NBA that are better than Nash right now.

So if Nash is a top 10 NBA player...they are only 9 great players according to you? The rest of the NBA all stars and all NBA second and third team players aren't great now, according to your off the head logic.

And is there a player in the NBA as good as Nash with both hands? Nope... I mean look at those left handed bounce passes, he's one of the most craftiest players in our generation.

If Kidd can take over an NBA game, then Nash can. I thought you meant by taking over meaning that score 50 bullshit Kobe does, but still losing. If you're gonna through Kidd's name in there, you have to throw in Nash, don't even contradict yourself like that again child.

Shaq, Kobe and Dirk couldn't even get out of the first round this year, its also useless when you bring playoffs into the regular season MVP discussion.


Nash is the keystone for this Suns team that has challenged and redefined the brand of basketball played in the NBA, and that says a lot. The value for for pass first PG's is increasing. Look at the Toronto Raptors with Calderon and TJ Ford. Others PPG doesn't always equal wins. The year Wilt averaged 50 they didn't win shit. Same with Jordan's for his first 3 or 4 years in the league. He averaged around 35-37 and wouldn't even make the playoffs. Nash is not better than those guys at their prime, but Nash living proof you do not need to lead the NBA in PPG to win MVP. If that was the case, where are agruements for Jerry Stackhouse MVP's trophy in the year he averaged almost 30 points per game? Not only Nash scores points 17-19 ppg a game, he's by far the league leader in assist per game. This is reason why Nash deserved MVP. The funny thing is, Nash got better after each year he won MVP, so he was definately a deserving canidate for MVP this season.

Stop trying so hard to disagree.
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
1.Duncan
2.Lebron
3.Kobe
4.Kidd
5.KG
6.D-Wade
7.Shaq (you might laugh, but everywhere he goes a ring follows)
8.Baron Davis (again you might laugh but look at the stats in the playoffs...besides baron davis only knocked off the #1 seed in the western conference)
9.AI
10.T-Mac

The last 3 guys on the list are arguable and one could say Nash deserves to be over those guys. But if you really break it down. Baron Davis beat the #1 seed in the western conference almost single handedly. He would just take over games with his shooting ability and his penetration skills through the Mavs soft defense (there are exceptions). Nash couldn't do this.

AI actually took his team to the championship with the sixers and the sixers weren't that great of a team. But yet they still contended for a championship. Also A.I can take over a game like a real MVP...unlike Nash.

And T-Mac. We all know T-Mac can easily take over a game. That's not arguable. His injuries are starting to slow him down but is still capable of taking over a game. Remember he almost beat the Pistons (the championship pistons) in 5 games basically by himself. Nash can not do this.

You say nash can take over a game but if he could then why is he at home just like Dirk? Dirk and Nash cannot take over a game. They just don't have it in them and that's what makes great players. Players that just tell there team to hop on their back and they'll take them to the promised land. Nash and Dirk arent' capable of it yet. I'm not going to say ever because that might change but as of now they haven't found it yet. Nash is a great passer and is probably the best passer in the NBA next to Kidd. But making sick passes doesn't make you an MVP just like averaging 30 pts doesn't make you MVP. MVP...Most Valuable Player...so Nash and Dirk have been the Leagues Most Valuable Player yet other players have done head and shoulders more than these guys. The league has gone soft.

Kidd can take over a game by averaging a triple double throughout the entire playoffs. Who does that these days...not Nash. Nash can't take over a game...get over it. He doesn't have the capabilites to make that action happen. He's a great pass-first PG that finds more athletically formidable athletes open that can finish with authority. Dirk is a great shooter and a high IQ player that has more athletic and defensive minded people surrounding him to make his defensive faults less probable. Both are in a good situation to win but neither can take their team to the place they need to be which is the championship.

We're talking about Nash...you shouldn't bring up a legend when we're talking about Nash...so so disrespectful. And why is it useless to bring up the playoffs? because Nash fails to make it to the conference championship every year and makes your arguement look foolish...yea I would say that too if I was arguing something that's not arguable.

And this will end this argument. Nash deserves the MVP but doesn't deserve it over Duncan, Lebron, Kobe, and Kidd...they are just better players than him and have accomplished far more than him. Everybody but kobe also made it past the first round this year too so take that into consideration. Just face the facts Nash shouldn't have 2 MVPs on his mantle. He doesn't deserve to be elevated onto a list that is only reserved for greats. It just shouldnt happen.
 

metrocard

Legend
My son, I'm glad you finally learned in skill posting. Typing...like...this...doesn't...help...your agrument. You listen and learned well. Glad I can contribute to your life.

My list is based on overall team value. Not who's the most amazing, or most talented.

1. Duncan
2. Lebron
3. KG
4. Kidd
5. Nash


If you're gonna put Kidd top 5, you might as well put Nash. Lets stop being bias here. Nash and Kidd are rare NBA PG's, and the two PG's that come closest to these guys are Deron Williams and Chris Paul, who aren't even on their level yet, but will be.

Stats in the playoffs don't mean everything. Not only Nash has been consistantly better than Baron Davis the last 3 years, Nash has improved each season and is bound to continue improving his stats. So Nash's name will always be in the MVP discussions. Plus, I don't like a guy who chucks 300 Three Point shots a season, and only shoots 30% from the FG, ew.

You talk so much about winning, etc...but you put T'Mac ahead of Nash now? Nash has won more playoff games now than T'Mac will ever win in his career. His explosiveness, fell off, but his man defense has improved. I like T'Mac, but I would never rank him ahead of Nash right now. The last time T'Mac face the Pistons he was in Orlando. That was years AGO...lol.

Shaq in the past, yes. But that isn't the agruement, we're talking about right now. Shaq is getting old and is on the decline. Plus the injuries and plus the fact he didn't play most of the season. Shaq is top 10, but not ahead of Nash.

Dwayne Wade, Shaq, Kobe, KG, AI, T'Mac are all home too, cause they're home means they can't take over games? Stop being so monkey minded.

Find me a PG in the NBA who

averages a double double

Shoots 50% 40% from 3pt and almost 90% from the FT.

Nash averages 18 ppg, he doesn't score 30 ppg, but 18 is still great.

You say Nash can't dominate games? Well your wrong once again.



Nash drops 42 on Jason Kidd (the best defensive PG in the NBA)

Phoneix won that game too. Nash dominates game with his ability to use the pick and roll. Break down the defense. Consistantly giving his teammates opportunities for high percentage shots which leads to the Sun's sucess in the regular season. If you never seen Nash dominate, then you prove once again you don't watch NBA basketball.

Nash is great in the playoffs too. He averaged 19 ppg 13.3 assist with 48% 3pt. If that doesn't help you team, I don't know what else anyone in the NBA can do. Since you brought up ledgends before, tot even Stockon's playoff numbers can compare to Nash in the playoff, and Stockon is one of the greatest PG's ever.

Your agruement went no where. You from believing Nash was not deserving of the MVP to the point he deserved the MVP. The agruement is over, you haven't spit any facts in the last 3-4 post of yours. You just don't like Nash being consider a MVP thats okay, thats your monkey-minded opinion, not a fact. Its okay though, its nice to see you admit your wrong (about time). Aha, it must pains you to see Nash in the MVP discussion every year, I love it.


Peaaaaace
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
Stats in the playoffs don't mean everything
Kid...what are you talking about? The playoffs is a game of adjustment and grind it out games. This is why Phoenix and Dallas lose every year because they can't make defensive adjustments. You say this because Baron Davis straight man handled anyone in his path during the playoffs and Nash got bodychecked to the boards LOL. Hey I'd make up some unintelligent, slow bus excuse too if I were wrong everytime LOL.

And I agree Nash is top 5 in the NBA...but that doesn't make you an MVP.

Nash has won more playoff games now than T'Mac will ever win in his career.

This is true...but when did I ever bring that up? Again when I prove you wrong in one aspect you have to change the subject. Just admit that your wrong and move on. When I put T-Mac on the list I said he could take over like an MVP...and he's proven that. Nash has not...so what do you have to say about that?

Dwayne Wade, Shaq, Kobe, KG, AI, T'Mac are all home too, cause they're home means they can't take over games? Stop being so monkey minded.

How did this come up? Again...keep on subject. All those players are MVP caliber players that can take over a game. 3/6 of the guys have rings. 4/6 have been to the championship. The only player that could possibly be on Nash's level is KG and T-Mac yet they take over games and Nash does not.

Do you understand what I mean about taking over a game? I don't mean changing the game because if I meant that I would have typed that (it's not like you would be intelligent to read it anyways). I mean the player can lead his team to the promised land (isn't this one of many times I've said this?).

Find me a PG in the NBA who

averages a double double

Shoots 50% 40% from 3pt and almost 90% from the FT.

Nash averages 18 ppg, he doesn't score 30 ppg, but 18 is still great.

Nash is the only point guard that averages those stats. But where has he gone with that? No where Nash is not on Lebron's or Duncan's level...wake up and step out your cave.

You say Nash can't dominate games? Well your wrong once again.
Nash drops 42 on Jason Kidd (the best defensive PG in the NBA)

Wow...you name one game and you say he can take over games? Allan houston dropped 50+ on Kobe...the best defensive 2 guard in the game...and Allan doesnt have an MVP to show for it...shut that one down. HAHA...no my child...you're wrong.

Nash is great in the playoffs too. He averaged 19 ppg 13.3 assist with 48% 3pt. If that doesn't help you team, I don't know what else anyone in the NBA can do. Since you brought up ledgends before, tot even Stockon's playoff numbers can compare to Nash in the playoff, and Stockon is one of the greatest PG's ever.

Now that's a possible legend you can compare him too but again Stockton didn't win MVP...you know why? He has nothing to show for it. Then again at least Stockton went the western conference championship...Nash can't even do that. Your argument is weak and swayed too much on your opinion instead of fact.

Aha, it must pains you to see Nash in the MVP discussion every year, I love it.

Yea...just like it kills you that Isiah is our coach and exec :teeth:

*Slams down the mic and walks off the stage*.....GAME OVER
 

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
Metro... you try to be funny too much homie... and you're stubborn... that's why cats disagree with you... i'm not arguing talent either... look at the trend dude... sportswriters... PEOPLE select the mvp... they know it is evidence of an era when they give people the award... you put things in historic perspective dig??? nash had numbers that made him a deserving candidate... but so did ewing, barkley, wilkens, drexler, olajuwan when jordan was winning it... remember barkley got it once... hakeem got it when jordan was retired... the point is... the mvp puts a stamp on a season... it's not some magical computer that looks at stats and says "hey... this guy is the best..." everyone else's number 2 came the year after a championship... look it up... i don't get the sense of arguing online when we debating the state of the game... this shit is lame... chill with that and bring the facts... you're coming straight off opinion... you continue to ignore facts and spew dumb insults... let's get in an intelligent debate...
 

metrocard

Legend
Metro... you try to be funny too much homie... and you're stubborn... that's why cats disagree with you... i'm not arguing talent either... look at the trend dude... sportswriters... PEOPLE select the mvp... they know it is evidence of an era when they give people the award... you put things in historic perspective dig??? nash had numbers that made him a deserving candidate... but so did ewing, barkley, wilkens, drexler, olajuwan when jordan was winning it... remember barkley got it once... hakeem got it when jordan was retired... the point is... the mvp puts a stamp on a season... it's not some magical computer that looks at stats and says "hey... this guy is the best..." everyone else's number 2 came the year after a championship... look it up... i don't get the sense of arguing online when we debating the state of the game... this shit is lame... chill with that and bring the facts... you're coming straight off opinion... you continue to ignore facts and spew dumb insults... let's get in an intelligent debate...

Lets not be serious and over sensitive all the time. Real men don't get bother by it, only children.

You're coming off...the...top...off your...head. Research, look up facts then come back at me when you ready. You sounded kinda tense in your post, is everything alright?
 

metrocard

Legend
How did this come up? Again...keep on subject. All those players are MVP caliber players that can take over a game. 3/6 of the guys have rings. 4/6 have been to the championship. The only player that could possibly be on Nash's level is KG and T-Mac yet they take over games and Nash does not.
I call him kid, he calls me kid back. I call him my son, child, he does the same. I think he gave up on spitting bullshit and his opinion and he focusing on my style. You can't bite the swagger kid. w :afro:


What the hell are you talking about in your first paragraph? Stats in the playoffs don't mean everything. If they did, then you could make an agruement for Jerome James earning his contract from his OKAY preformance for Seattle in the playoffs.

You did bring it up chimp, you ranked Nash ahead of T'Mac. You even use playoff preformances to bring down Nash's value. Nash is a better playoff preformance and has had more sucess in the playoffs than T'Mac's whole 10 year career, bottom line.

No one is off topic, you ranked players ahead of Nash and your reason for that was "Nash doesn't dominate like a MVP" "He doesn't dominate in the playoffs".

You repeat yourself over, and over and over. "Nash doesn't dominate"

You're holding on to your agruement by your pinky finger now.

You just said KG is on Nash level. KG is a former MVP and a top 5 NBA player. Basically you mean Nash is a MVP caliber player and a top 5 player if he's on KG level. Good job on contradicting yourself, again.

You should of said "Being a leader", instead of dominating before you wrote that garbage. You're always changing up your words. Just say what you mean.

How can anyone agrue that Nash isn't a leader? Sure his team has not advanced to the finals yet, but they sure as hell had great opportunities to. It is not like Nash totally flunked in the playoffs like T'Mac or other overrated superstars. Nash has preformed at the elite level in the playoffs, and gave his team a chance to win those teams, everygame. Thats what MVP's do.

Nash had led his team to the 2005 and 2006 conference finals and fell short to elite teams. Nash was Nash, but he faced better TEAMS. Thats something you need to understand. Just because Nash's team lost to the best team or top 2 doesn't mean he isn't a leader, or dominant. He's consistant with his team and gave the Suns an opportunity most teams in the NBA don't have, back to back conference finals apperances. It is not the biggest accomplish, but Nash has done alot for Phoneix in the playoffs in only a span of 3 years. He will do the same thing next year, cause he is a leader.

Once again you prove you have poor poor knowledge of the Knicks. Houston was dropping buckets on George, Kobe, no one could stop him. It was a dominating preformance. Houston proved he can dominate and take over game. He has DONE it. So has Nash. You were proven wrong, just walk it off.

Taking credit away from the greatest Knick shooter of all time to make your nonlogical irrevelant point about Nash not "dominating" games? Sick, you are the most disgusting person to ever claim to be a Knick fan, hence the reason why you never earned the title as Knick fan from me, son.

Stockon didn't win MVP because he didn't win the NBA Finals? Now you're gonna discredit John fucking Stockon?

Stockon didn't win MVP because Barkley, Jordan, Hakeem, Robinson and Malone were in the NBA, not because he didn't win the NBA finals.

Barkley and Malone didn't win the finals, but they were still MVP's. I don't understand your stupidity. Your posting is similar to Steve Franchis' headless chicken dribbling-turnover routine, it goes no where. The fact you have to bold your words make you seem weaker in material and facts. Do your research first, stop sweating my style and trying to style your senseless post, it hasn't work.


I'v thrown stats, his resume in the playoffs and his ability to create and dominant the pace of the game. You thrown monkey shit at me, and I'm offended. Don't ever lower my IQ like that again. When I read post, I expect quality shit. Look at around the forum. There are alot of quality post and you are the least of them. Thats why when I reply to you, you get little to zero respect, cause you havent' earned it and you retaliate in anger and frustration. The difference between me and you as posters, is that theres always something in my post you can agree with, always. No matter how opinionated I am or I try to be(I try), I'm just good at laying down the facts and proving my points. I can't honestly remember I've agreed with you once. If there was, please show me. The reason for that is you always have a tense pissed off losing attitude in your post. Just be open minded and stop trying to discredit everything. As my boy Spirit of Truth would say "You simple monkey minded mothafucka"

Nash is MVP
Nash is a deserving MVP
Nash is a competitor, a leader and a dominant all star player.
Nash has been the most sucessful PG in the NBA in the last 3 years, thus making him the best at his position currently.
Theres a MVP for the regular season and a MVP for the playoffs. Sad you just figured this out today.
Nash has GONE far in the playoffs multiple times.


Like what we use to say in HS in the Bronx...."Cut ya mic off" :smokin: Peaaaace
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
Who cares what your HS used to say? They obviously didn't teach you any english LOL. Took you 3 days for a reply huh and that's the best you can do...."kid" LOL? Seems like I've gotten in your head a lil bit, I feel sorry for you and your off topic tantrums. Simply put...Duncan and Lebron deserve the MVP over Nash and Dirk...and if you argue with that than you're a fatter pig than I thought you were. Again...NO BODY AGREES WITH YOU GIVE IT UP.
 

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
metro... i aint mad atcha... but i realize that you are a little boy who spends waaaaaay too much time on the internet reading other MEN's profiles on a knick's fan forum and researching nba data for days before responding to posts... i'm saying nash shouldn't win back to back mvp's... of course there are mvps that didn't win the chip... but does that invalidate my point... for real dude... real fans don't need google or wikipedia... you call allan fucking houston the greatest knick shooter of all time? look up a guy named michael ray richardson... or the great bernard king... fuck outta hea... you musta started watching the knicks in 95 or some shit... for real... if you gonna research the sport... research the history of the league... study the game instead of using wikifuckingpedia and muthafuckingoogle... and i hope you don't take me cursing as being mad... i just don't respect your posts anymore... when you start responding to the substance of my posts again... i will debate you... until then... you gets the meg griffin treatment...
 
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