If the Knicks Trade Crawford

insomniac

Benchwarmer
If the Knicks trade Crawford and Nate Rob in a deal for Rashard Lewis who plays the SG position? Mardy Collins? Q-Rich cant be counted on.
 

FameMos

Benchwarmer
That's the same thing I was thinking. I figured if the traded Crawford they would look 2 draft Almond out of Rice
 

Toons

is the Bo$$
dont forget that qrich is a pure sg.....that is his original position....remember him and darius miles? q was dunking on ppl, then he developed that 3 point shot and because of his height, phoenix made him a 3
 

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
but i dunno if q can play the 2 anymore... LJ played SF before his back injury too... q's days at the 2 may be a distant memory...
 

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
LJ = SF/PF
Q = SG/SF


Big difference.

same injury... same result...

LJ became less explosive and had to develop a more post oriented game and relied more on his power... 4s are slower and stronger than 3s so he could guard them in his physically depleted state...

although 2s and 3s are becoming interchangeable with the popular playing style... but MOST 2s are still really quick and agile... 3s are less so...

5 slower than
4 slower than
3 slower than
2 slower than
1

this isn't always the case... but it's a general principal...
 

metrocard

Legend
same injury... same result...

LJ became less explosive and had to develop a more post oriented game and relied more on his power... 4s are slower and stronger than 3s so he could guard them in his physically depleted state...

although 2s and 3s are becoming interchangeable with the popular playing style... but MOST 2s are still really quick and agile... 3s are less so...

5 slower than
4 slower than
3 slower than
2 slower than
1

this isn't always the case... but it's a general principal...


Q-Rich 2/3
LJ 3/4


Big difference. Lets see when Q-Rich is 100%.
 

mugili716

Benchwarmer
Dont give up on Q yet

I really think we gotta give Q a chance.. especially because this is the first time he has actually gone and gotten back surgery done. So i think he will rehab over the summer and with a backcourt of Steph Q and Lewis man the knicks will create havoc... I mean no body better be double or triple teaming curry anymore. Also thats why it is so important to have Lee or Balkman in our starting lineup; this way they move without the ball and give curry more options when he gets double teamed.
 

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
metro... notice i didn't say q couldn't play 2... i said i hope he can... back injuries are dangerous... let's not ASSume that q will be back 100% is all i'm saying...
 

metrocard

Legend
metro... notice i didn't say q couldn't play 2... i said i hope he can... back injuries are dangerous... let's not ASSume that q will be back 100% is all i'm saying...

I want to be positive about Q, because he's accually a gem for this team. Q is a warrior, he lost family, a wife, and played poorly in the 2005-06 season...but he came back the 06-07 season hard body, like a true warrrior, was playing like an allstar for a month, then those injuries fucked everything up.

Q has lottery talent and the ability to average 15ppg-17 ppg 5-7 rebs with great D every night...I BELIEVE he will fight to stay healthy with his opportunity in New York.
 

Toons

is the Bo$$
tmac got back injuries too, that dont stop him from playing the 2...keep in mind that these nba stars get the best treatment technology has to offer...i think q can come back and play an agreessive 2....imagine the lineup

marbury
q.rich
Lewis
Lee
Curry
 

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
metro i agree with you 100%... but i'm more pessimistic about his chances is all... i love q -rich...

toons... remember t-mac's game is predicated on slashing and perimeter play... q was always more of a banger/three point threat... he was never really a slasher before the injury... and i wouldn't expect him to become one after the injury...

if he can be the kid from LAC that i remember (i didn't really care for the phoenix version) posting up little dudes and shooting over stronger ones... we wouldn't have the artest debate...
 

Kiyaman

Legend
dont forget that qrich is a pure sg.....that is his original position....remember him and darius miles? q was dunking on ppl, then he developed that 3 point shot and because of his height, phoenix made him a 3


Q,Richardson is not a SG in the NBA. The Clippers may have played him at the SG position like Larry Brown did but the end result was a losing game and a losing season.
The same can be said about Crawford at the PG position.
Crawford is not a PG in the NBA. The Chicago Bulls and Larry Brown may have played Crawford at the PG position but the end result was a losing game and a losing season.

To trade Crawford off of the Knicks means the Knicks must get a 30 MPG SG to replace him in the trade. It is bad enough that little has been said that the Knicks have to spend their MLE this offseason on getting an experience SG to backup Crawford (A Rookie SG would not be a wise move as a backup for SG-Crawford).
Marbury is strictly a scoring PG!
Francis is strictly a scoring PG!
Nate is strictly a scoring PG!
Collins is strictly a young "Raw" defensive distributing PG.

It is ashame that Isiah Thomas forgot all the talent and Skillz he received from SG-Vinnie & Dumars as a Player on the Detroit Pistons. The Only guards on the Knicks that show promise of what all three Guards provided on Isiah Thomas two Championship Pistons Team is Nate & Collins offense/defense tactics.
Marbury, Francis, and Crawford skillz dont come close to 25% of what Players Isiah, Dumars, and Vinnie Johnson provided for the Winning Bad Boys Pistons...
 

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
i agree with you about qrich and jcraw... but steph's career average are like 20 and 8... that's oscar robertson company... and steph has shown last season that he can defer to other players on the offensive end...
 

knicklover

Benchwarmer
Steph was playing his best ball as a Knick in the middle/late part of last year. The problem is that in order to win it all, he will have to be the 2nd/3rd option for the Knicks. He is unable to consistently deliver in crunch time under pressure. He makes too many mental errors, turnovers, misses makeable shots etc...

However, if he's the 3rd option, I think it would cause other problems because of his ego.

Steph is rounding into a much more likeable guy and better all around player, but I don't think the Knicks can win it all with him at PG unless there's clearly a bigger star on the team that can take control in the last quarter. He could win with Kobe, but to get Kobe we would have to give up so much young talent we couldn't win anyway.
 
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donchris

Next season, keep waiting
Steph was playing his best ball as a Knick in the middle/late part of last year. The problem is that in order to win it all, he will have to be the 2nd/3rd option for the Knicks. He is unable to consistently deliver in crunch time under pressure. He makes too many mental errors, turnovers, misses makeable shots etc...

However, if he's the 3rd option, I think it would cause other problems because of his ego.

Steph is rounding into a much more likeable guy and better all around player, but I don't think the Knicks can win it all with him at PG unless there's clearly a bigger star on the team that can take control in the last quarter. He could win with Kobe, but to get Koby we would have to give up so much young talent we couldn't win anyway.

I don't know. It's been said that Marbury doesn't make his team better when in fact his team has been in the position where no one has stepped up to score other than Marbury. So who is Marbury's scoring option?

Richardson = injured
Crawford = clutch player/poor shot selection
Frye = consistency issues, full potential has yet to be recognized
Lee = solid player but not a major scorer
Curry = best scoring option in the paint/hasn't yet stepped up to lead this team.

To me the real problem with the Knicks, and I've been saying this for years, is that the best scoring option is our PG. It's not that Steph doesn't want to share the ball, we've all seen that this is not the case from last season, it's that no one else is consistent. The entire team deals with inconsistency and injury. Hopefully this coming season this will change.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
I don't know. It's been said that Marbury doesn't make his team better when in fact his team has been in the position where no one has stepped up to score other than Marbury. So who is Marbury's scoring option?

Richardson = injured
Crawford = clutch player/poor shot selection
Frye = consistency issues, full potential has yet to be recognized
Lee = solid player but not a major scorer
Curry = best scoring option in the paint/hasn't yet stepped up to lead this team.

To me the real problem with the Knicks, and I've been saying this for years, is that the best scoring option is our PG. It's not that Steph doesn't want to share the ball, we've all seen that this is not the case from last season, it's that no one else is consistent. The entire team deals with inconsistency and injury. Hopefully this coming season this will change.


Marbury is and has been the Knicks Starting PG for the last several seasons and has yet to come-up with a creative system that works for his fellow teammates season after season.
Marbury Halfcourt-Offense only works for Starbury to score, it does not do anything to get any of his four teammates into a consistent scoring offense.
Marbury may have stepped up his game this past season by playing both sides of the court and giving his teammates alot of chances to shoot the ball, but .... Marbury played SOLO on defense and offense, passing the ball to your teammate at the halfcourt line and practically standing there while your four teammates go against 5 guys to score is playing solo on offense, staying close on your man to force him to pass and never doubling a man with your teammate or trying to intervine on the passing lane, or reading your oponents offense is playing solo on defense.
Always remember teammates follow their leader on offensive moves and defensive moves to improve their talents and skillz in the game, and the Knicks have alot of young players that are willing to follow their veteran teammates on both sides of the court.

Young Mardy Collins late season performance got the attention of more than just the Knick-Fans, it got the attention of Scouts and sports broadcasters that were NBA legends when they played the game (not just Clyde Frazier) seen what Mardy Collins could become if he just played alongside of a Ray Allen, or a T-Mac, or a Lebron James, or a Pierce, in the backcourt in his sophmore season. The samething happen to Richard Hamilton (RIP) in his rookie season with MJ, Scouts and NBA legends like G.M. Joe Dumars seen that Rookie RIP only needed one backcourt partner to improve his talent and Skillz in his sophmore season so G.M. Dumars traded the NBA top 3 scorer Stackhouse for this one season rookie player (RIP) to go alongside with a struggling Billups (Mardy Collins) in the backcourt, which happen to be the Best Backcourt Tandem in the NBA for the last 5 seasons (Imagine a Young Starting lineup next season of PG-Mardy Collins, SG-Gibson, and SF-Lebron James, whichever one of those three players bringing down the ball means a different Offensive structure is comming at the oposition with the same system playbook but a different shooter.)...
 

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
Marbury is and has been the Knicks Starting PG for the last several seasons and has yet to come-up with a creative system that works for his fellow teammates season after season.


Sense when is it the responsibility of the PG to come up with a system? Isn't that the coaches responsibility?

Young Mardy Collins late season performance got the attention of more than just the Knick-Fans, it got the attention of Scouts and sports broadcasters that were NBA legends when they played the game (not just Clyde Frazier) seen what Mardy Collins could become if he just played alongside of a Ray Allen, or a T-Mac, or a Lebron James, or a Pierce, in the backcourt in his sophmore season.

This is exactly my point. How good can a PG be if no one steps up to score? Imagine how good Marbury would be beside any of these guys. Imagine how good any of us would be. Marbury is not and has never been the problem. He has been the scapegoat. There is a major problem with your best player and lead scorer is your point guard. There has been improvement in this area last season. (Not enough but improvement none the less) Where we see Eddie Curry stepping up some what. This must continue in order for NYK to become the beast of the east again. Getting a new PG will not solve the problem. We need a PF and a consistent shooter. I'd like to see Crawford in that position but we will have to wait n see.
 

eastlinykfan

Benchwarmer
Sense when is it the responsibility of the PG to come up with a system? Isn't that the coaches responsibility?



This is exactly my point. How good can a PG be if no one steps up to score? Imagine how good Marbury would be beside any of these guys. Imagine how good any of us would be. Marbury is not and has never been the problem. He has been the scapegoat. There is a major problem with your best player and lead scorer is your point guard. There has been improvement in this area last season. (Not enough but improvement none the less) Where we see Eddie Curry stepping up some what. This must continue in order for NYK to become the beast of the east again. Getting a new PG will not solve the problem. We need a PF and a consistent shooter. I'd like to see Crawford in that position but we will have to wait n see.

Marbury is definitely the scapegoat b/c he is arguably our best player and face of the franchise (Sorry Curry you are not there yet). The second half of the season after his slump in the beginning was by the far the best ball he has played in an NYK jersey. How can it be his fault if other guys are not hitting their shots or can not pass out of double team (Curry). The guy can only do so much, he is not Kobe-esque; he is an above average basketball player that at times can take over a game, but not all the time. He was our best perimeter defender after Q got hurt and began to play with a chip on his shoulder (god I loved that stretch) after the brawl. Other than DLee and Q, he was our best overall player. Yeah he had a high turnover rate. U wanna know why? Our offense had absolutely no flow, it was really sad. It was either pass it and shoot it or pray Curry does not lose it or get called on a charge. That was it. Imagine if every play all five get a touch. This usually leads to less turnovers and higher percentage shots. But no, I do not fault him for his high turnover/assist ratio. Out offense was predictable and let defenders take more risks.

Anyway, to get back on the topic of needing Crawford, what is the problem with utilizing Balk at the two and moving Lewis to the three. I declared this in another post, just forgot which one. Whats the difference? The 2 and 3 are basically the same b/c they usually play off of the wings. Plus, it would make our frontcourt bigger and also we wouldnt need him to score, thats what Lewis would be for. Imagine if he could begin hitting open treys like Bowen does so well? We would be unstoppable on O! If we could pull off a Craw/Nate/Frye (among others IDK) for Lewis our lineup could look like this:

Marbs
Balk
Lewis
Lee
Curry

Collins
Francis/drafted SG (if still here)
Q/JJ20
JJ20/Rose
Morris/Rose/Big Snacks

We would have a good mix off the bench and for the starters b/c we would have a nice mix of scorers and role players. Honestly, I would rather have Lewis than Kobe anyway b/c the price is just too high for him. If we could get Lewis (possibly with some type of overpaid/filler players) for Craw/Nate/Frye, I do not think we would skip a beat.
 
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