Is this what the knicks need?

pyotrveliky said:

are you saying curry is in ewing's league? because in terms of defense and rebounding hes nowhere near ewing. he is our number one player but i dont think he stacks up as much as ewing did (in terms of impact on both ends of the court at least)

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pyotrveliky said:

uh they made the finals twice in the 90s....playing against jordan and the pacers every year. why are yall hating? sure we didnt have a super super star like mj but we had a great team.

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GiantsKnickFan said:

Im wit that. Our rivalries against pacers and bulls made for the best basketball in the NBA that hasnt been seen since. Suns/Spurs, Cavs/Detriot are no where near Knicks/Bulls, Knicks/Reggie miller - :evil:

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lilman_bklyn said:

"Fuck the Zach Randolph Trade"
i dont think i disrespected them at all. If those players were B level, they would have won a championship the way they played the game with Heart and all out hustle. But they weren't. Doc Rivers and Derek Harper were maybe B players early in their careers, not when they got to the knicks though, Starks was a great knick, but not a B player, neither was mase or hubert davis. Oak was an above B player as was Ewing.
Artest as a knick would bring the fire needed to spark this team, hopefully the coaches would catch on and start preaching defense. Artest as a knick could bring this team to the brink

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metrocard said:

Where have you been? Its been quit sometime we made noise in the playoffs, almost a decade./b]

I would be happy with a competitive playoff team that can give me hope, FIRST. We all want a championship. But how you gonna say you want a championship without playoffs? Thats like saying wanting to smoke a blunt without a dutch or a phillie.

We need an A player to build around... Team play is important, but this is the NBA, you need your superstar to carry you time to time.

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metrocard said:

Shar, so how the hell do you win a championship without going into the playoffs? We all want a championship, I seriously don't understand what you're trying to say.

Portland, New Jersey, and Sacramento had competitive STRONG teams that had the opportunity to win a championship. They fell short, it happends to every team in the NBA.

Do you think we could magically leap the level of a Jailblazer, a Bibby/Peja/Divac/Webber Kings squad or a Nets fast break defensive squad of Kidd/Kittles/Jefferson/Martin and just reach championship level? Hell no, you're wrong. We need to get into the playoffs first, and get experience. Theres nothing wrong with failing in the playoffs, its definately better than being one of the worst teams in the league. Do you want the Knicks to compete or just be losers? I don't know where you're coming from.

I'm sorry to break it to you, we're not Detroit. Detroit had 3-4 All stars with playoff experience on their team. We have zero. Brown and Isiah are totally different.

We need to make the playoffs to improve. Not making the playoffs each season doesn't PROGRESS the franchise.

Bulls failed in the playoffs, but they're projected to be the future of the East, same with the Cavs, Orlando Magic, etc. You don't win championships right away.

Detroit failed in the playoffs before they won anything. They benefited from EXPERIENCE, thats why Detroit looks like a flawless team at times because of their superior experience.

Same with the SPURS, they didn't win the title every year, but they were in POSITION to every god damn year they played basketball. The more experience they build, the better they get.


We weren't the Bulls, but who were like the Bulls? We were fucking good, and I enjoyed the style we played. If you don't, I can't really consider you a Knick fan. The 90's were awesome, from the beginning to the end.

I believe we're a 7th-8th seed, and hopefully we get as much experience as possible in the playoffs this season, so we can benefit in the future and finally build an INDENTITY in the fucking NBA.

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metrocard said:

Shar, so how the hell do you win a championship without going into the playoffs? We all want a championship, I seriously don't understand what you're trying to say.

Portland, New Jersey, and Sacramento had competitive STRONG teams that had the opportunity to win a championship. They fell short, it happends to every team in the NBA.

Do you think we could magically leap the level of a Jailblazer, a Bibby/Peja/Divac/Webber Kings squad or a Nets fast break defensive squad of Kidd/Kittles/Jefferson/Martin and just reach championship level? Hell no, you're wrong. We need to get into the playoffs first, and get experience. Theres nothing wrong with failing in the playoffs, its definately better than being one of the worst teams in the league. Do you want the Knicks to compete or just be losers? I don't know where you're coming from.

I'm sorry to break it to you, we're not Detroit. Detroit had 3-4 All stars with playoff experience on their team. We have zero. Brown and Isiah are totally different.

We need to make the playoffs to improve. Not making the playoffs each season doesn't PROGRESS the franchise.

Bulls failed in the playoffs, but they're projected to be the future of the East, same with the Cavs, Orlando Magic, etc. You don't win championships right away.

Detroit failed in the playoffs before they won anything. They benefited from EXPERIENCE, thats why Detroit looks like a flawless team at times because of their superior experience.

Same with the SPURS, they didn't win the title every year, but they were in POSITION to every god damn year they played basketball. The more experience they build, the better they get.


We weren't the Bulls, but who were like the Bulls? We were fucking good, and I enjoyed the style we played. If you don't, I can't really consider you a Knick fan. The 90's were awesome, from the beginning to the end.

I believe we're a 7th-8th seed, and hopefully we get as much experience as possible in the playoffs this season, so we can benefit in the future and finally build an INDENTITY in the fucking NBA.

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ShairanXIII said:

I agree with 80% of this... but let me clarify my position...

see... in the 90s... as competitive as we were... we never had a closer... a go to guy that could make things happen for us... Ewing was a blackhole on offense and wouldn't pass out to open shooters enough... so the post/kickout thing didn't work either... riley also did a shitty job in finals by refusing to bench starks...

in 95 we bring in nellie... were looking fresh on offense... then ewing complains about nellie... has the coach shipped and mason traded... we gave up a guy who could initiate the offense and got a guy who had lost his explosiveness in LJ (4 point play not withstanding)... the knicks front office did very little to nothing for a decade and a half... then we witnessed the rapid fall from grace that accompanies aging contenders... this started in the 80s though...

see... people forget that the Bernard King knicks got to the eastern semis in 83... beating former champ philly before loosing to that season's champ in boston... they were competitive but BKing couldn't do it alone... the next year... BKing is injured so we get into the lottery and draft ewing... king has knee surgery and we ship him out for next to nothing... the most prolific scorer in knick HISTORY... traded before he and Ewing could play together...

in the late 80s... we were building an identity... we DRAFTED BOTH rod strickland and mark jackson in 88... NY basketball legends... for jackson we got bo Kimble, Charles Smith (THAT charles smith) and Doc Rivers... we traded rod after 1 season to San Antonio for an aging Mo Cheeks... after watching mark jackson give us the business with his offensive saavy in indy... and rod strickland rip shit in san antonio and portland (when healthy)...

see... trading King, Mason, Strickland and Jackson... was a short sighted move based on satisfying star demands (Mason trade) or injury concerns (King) or for a declining veteral (Strickland)... these moves did not help us win titles... they kept us competitive in the playoffs... but they served to retard our growth...

As much as I like Starks, Harper, Blackman, etc... how many banners do you think we'd be hanging if we had King, Strickland and Jackson on our squad in the 90s? Growing, building, experiences, learning... Of course... Hubie Brown and Rick Pitino didn't do us any favors... but changing your team for the moment... without a clear vision for the franchise is assinine...

i know you can google this shit yourself... but my point is... after 34 years of a title drought... i wanna have a parade on 5th avenue... fuck baseball, basketball and football are my shit... the giants won in the 90s... the jets haven't won in my lifetime... neither have the knicks... we always make moves to appease the fans or coaches or whoever the fuck... but we never make the right ones to get us the chip... playoff experience is important... yes... but... like IT said himself recently... why give up on a guys who can make us championship contenders over the next 4 years... for guys who will make us a playoff contenders?

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metrocard said:

Bashing Ewing isn't cool. Would we even be a competive team if it wasn't for Ewing? I'm sure you would of like to see Herb Williams be our franchise center instead of Patrick.

Regardless if you disagree or agree with the moves made in the 90's, it doesn't change the fact the 90's were one of the greatest eras in Knicks history. We enjoyed alot of basketball sucessful and came close to the chip in 94'; it was a close series, despite Ewing playing poor, you couldn't have gotten any closer to a championship. If Ewing played well, the chip would of been ours, cause we out played Houston in the majority of those games. The Knicks gave us memorable basketball to watch because they were always competiting. Isiah's team doesn't compete to that level and will never if he continues his ways, bottom line there isn't even a close comparision between the two.

You say Ewing was a blackhole in the offense(lol), then what is Curry? If you don't think Ewing could of won the Knicks a championship, what makes you think Curry or any player on our roster now can even get us that close in the playoffs? No one on this team is on Ewing's level. You're buying too much into Isiah's propoganda.

Fuck Isiah.

The 4 years? You think we can be championship contenders the next 4 years without EVEN touching the playoffs?

Playoffs contenders first, then a progression championship contenders.

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ShairanXIII said:

you sound like you got a man crush on patrick... i wasn't bashing him... i love #33... my favorite knick of the 90s... him and Mason... I was just pointing out why we lost in the 90s... Ewing needed better help around him and the team needed to convince him that he couldn't win it without good help...

you know i'm not saying EC is Ewing... Ewing was far superior in EVERY facet of the game... but he tried to do it all offensively and didn't defer to his teammates... call a spade a spade... if Ewing was more unselfish... our system would have worked like Houston's or LA's did... look at our shooters... Harper, Blackman, Davis, Starks (mr. 2 - 18)... Ewing was content to launch jumpers or post up with the hook in the paint...

like i said... the knicks TEAMS were not constructed well enough to win titles... competitive... yes... entertaining... yes... but good enough to win it all? no... even analysts admit that we were deeper than the bulls... i don't think jordan and the bulls were every indestructable... we SHOULD have beaten the bulls... but we never could... just when we thought it was our time when MJ retired... we watched houston raise two titles...

I agree about IT's knicks lacking the heart and passion of those squads... but they are getting their... after the brawl... it was palpable man... lee, balkman, collins, qrich, steph, crawford, curry... the energy this squad has at times is deadly... we're never gonna be the Riley's knicks or van gundy's knicks for that matter... but we're getting their...

You keep confusing my point... do I understand that we need to make the playoffs and gain experience before winning a championship? YES... Is there a difference between a team that is building toward a championship and one that is happy making the playoffs? YES...

hopefully... this will clarify the difference... in 96... the lakers a competitive playoff team with eddies jones, cedric ceballos, vlade divac, nick van exel, anthony peeler and more... signed Shaq in free agency... then traded Divac (who would have been an excellent backup) for Kobe Bryant... breaking two golden rules of trading NEVER trade big for small OR young for old so Divac could keep them competitive in the playoffs for a few more seasons... LA went on to win the first 3 titles of the century...

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pyotrveliky said:

so let me get your argument straight... you blame ewing for being a black hole but criticize ownership for not giving him better pieces to pass to to score. however, if he has no supporting pieces, who/why would he pass to? passing to less talented teammates when youre the best player on the team isnt always the best of ideas and then you would call him a pussy for not taking big shots. make up your damn mind.

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pyotrveliky said:

so let me get your argument straight... you blame ewing for being a black hole but criticize ownership for not giving him better pieces to pass to to score. however, if he has no supporting pieces, who/why would he pass to? passing to less talented teammates when youre the best player on the team isnt always the best of ideas and then you would call him a pussy for not taking big shots. make up your damn mind.

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metrocard said:

Bottom line, without Ewing, we wouldn't even be a playoff team in the 90's.

We were good enough to win it all in 94, bottom line. Plus, I'd much rather be the 90's Knicks than now. I rather get close to winning than never get close to winning. I rather see MY TEAM get as close to succeeding as possible, than being one of the worst in the league every year. Plus the fact we out played Houston in most of the series and lost by two threes in the final game. We weren't dominated, we just had a disappointing overall performance by our Franchise centre.

MJ is just a beast, there was no answer for MJ, Bulls were just a dynasty no one could stop. We were still an amazing team to watch compete every night.

I don't understand how you can be so negative about the 90s, but yet but so positive about the doo doo Isiah shitted out and presented to the Knick fans of NYC. Thats really weird.

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dr.carpy said:

I've read the posts and as usual, ShairanXIII point of view is complete the one that makes sense to me. NY fans don't want to give players a chance to develop. In the modern NBA, you need at least a big three. We now have that in Curry, Marbury, and Randolph. Now, there are going to have to be some role players. The reason why San Antonio is so successful, is everyone knows their roles and fulfills them without deviation. Everyone wants to win, that is obvious. The reality not everyone is built to win. IT has started to put long term pieces in place. Has it been perfect, no. Has he been effective? So far, we added ten wins to our previous season the worst in our history. And for the record the Knicks did try to get in free agent help for Ewing in the form of Dominque Wilkins. He eventually resigned with Atlanta for 5yrs/25mill. Why? cause he didn't want to be a sidekick. I sure when he watched the Knicks go to finals the same year, he probably wanted to puke (194). Anyways whose seen more futility in sports than the Boston Red Sox? 86 years between World Series victories. With the new crop of Knicks we have now, I think we'll win sooner than later. Balkman picked up 2 blocks in summer league. Why? The way the Knicks are getting after it defensively, he's free to rotate and pick up blocks, which was something we knew was in his repertoire, but didn't see cause all the mistakes made on defense last year. Again why bring in Artest when you have a younger, cheaper and far more coachable player in Balkman.

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dr.carpy said:

Again why bring in Artest when you have a younger, cheaper and far more coachable player in Balkman.

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