Has crawford really improved? Is he better than a mediocre SG?

jzero29

Rotation player
Has jamaal even really improved at all? Almost every stat was lower tin 06-07 than 05-06. He averaged about 17point the last 4 years except one, he avg 14 ppg in larry browns season('05-06). He actually shot better % in '05-06 as compared to '06-07. His 3pt was down also.Another thing, you take away his hot night, (52pts)he loses almost .881 almost an entire point off his ppg avg. His turnovers were at a career worst last season 2.75 per game(2.22per game 05-06). Blocks were down(.1), Steals Down(.1), assists higher(.6), Reb up (.1). Most slight down and ups, except turnovers, thats a big jump avg almost 3 a game Career worst, he had 13 more turnovers the previous year, but played 20 less games this year. Bottom line is how come every one says he's improved each year???
A lot of people compare crawford to rip hamilton. RIp's fg% and 3ptFG% are better, although last year RIPs fg% and 3ptFG% was down, so was jammals!! RIP still had him..FG% 468% -.400% and 3ptFG% .341-.320. Jamaal wasn't even his best in recent years. He seems to have gotten slightly higher or lower than .400 fg% each year, but was better last year! where's the improvement? Who cares if he has improved his shot selection if they still only hit .400fg%? If you look at NBA webpage for stats he tied for 126th in the league for guards in FG% That means there are 125 other guards out there that shoot better So it is not only allstars like RIP that shoot better, it's half the leagues guards. If you use the sites Qualifier(not sure what it is) He ranks only 46th in the league, thats a big jump, butit's 46 out of a total of 50 guards who qualified! So that means that every other guard in the entire league that qualified except 4guys 3 of them are point guards!!! 2 of them back up point guards!!! Now lest compare him to the shooters on the knicks,
It's easier to list the guys who had a worse shooting% Worst to best. You have Rookie Randolph morris .167,(made 1 of his 6 total shots), Kelvin kato .318 made (7 of 22) ., Rookie Mardy collins .382 (87-228), malik rose .398 (74 of 186), thats it then we have your boy! Crawford .400 (354-886) He was 5th worse!!! out of the 15 players they displayed at the team web site and those guys he beat didn't even play much(2 rookies!) Even jerome james had better FG% .418 (33 of 79) Out of the guards he also has worst 3pt FG% besides Rookie Collins. Yeah he beats malik rose and jarred jefferies in 3pts, but i'd rather any other guard shoot them him.
So don't try and compare this clown crawford to RIP hamilton. granted Crawfor could become that good, if he runs off screens and shoots a higher FG%. So he has to be much more consistent. The whole thing is you can say that about any SG. Heck, if I could shoot a higher FG% I'd have made the NBA. Easier said than done. Lets seem him improve, and I mean really improve. All his stats are down, he showed small improvements in rebounding (+.1 per game) assists (+.6 per game, thanks to eddy curry, someone had to feed him the ball anyone could) and Scoring avg (+3.3per game, 3 of last 4 season he avg 17pts it only dropped because Larry brown new he didn't want him shooting so much), so he took +4 more shots per game, had aworse shooting %(-.016)Basically took more made less. Heck he had more total points in 05-06 on close to the same number of shots. turnovers (+.53 more per game!) Blocks (-.1) Steals(-.1) he has not improved!!! He's been only a mediocre to sub par SG. yeah he hit a good number of big shots! But he missed just as many big shots that could have won games! Heck some of his game winners he had 3-5 attempts at, because neither team scored. I like Jamaal, I get sucked in watching him play, but thats because I'm a knick fan and root for him. He hasn't improved. I swear, his biggest gain from this season to last was in points, he took more shots made less %, and he has avg 17pts 3 of 4 season, just not the Larry brown season!!!So is usually avg 17pts and avg 17 points again after a bad season an improvement??? His assist game is up mainly because eddy currys FG% was up! His rebounds barely went up, and every other stat was worse! Including turnover!!! Open Your eyes knick fans, we need a bettr SG. Look at the knicks team stats! Look at crawfords career stats!
 

jzero29

Rotation player
P.S. ex knicks prospects like Matt carrol and matt barnes both better.

Ex-knicks prospects now better. Matt carrol, who played on the knicks summer league teams when he came out of college, wasn't signed, but blew crawford out of water with fg% and 3pt%. He avg 12pts in 10 less minutes taking 6 less shots. Hmmm if you gave him 6 more shots and more playing time? Matt barnes has better FG and 3ptfg% also.Both of them taller and heavier than Crawford. The mediocre?subpar shooting guard. Both made more 3pointers than crawford, 103 3pointers made last year, it was close, Carrol 111 3pointers made and Barnes 106 3pointers made. But crawfor attempted 55 more 3's than carrol and 32 more times than Barnes. These two players are cheap effective options the knicks could have now, but don't, they have Crawford, who they pay a lot of money to be terrible guard. I wonder if anyone who attempted as many shots as crawfor averaged less than him? Come on there has to be one worse guard out there somewhere!!!
 

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
he makes the knicks franchise player much better and he's a clutch performer

Exactly. There's not statistic for clutch. I like Crawford. I wish he played the Houston roll and hit easy shots. I don't know how you can compare Crawford to a kid that didn't make the team. To me that's the only stat that doesn't add up. I wouldn't mind trading Crawford/Richardson to clear cap space but I've got very little issues with Jamal's game. He holds us down when we're having a bad night.
 

jzero29

Rotation player
franchise player

Any NBA level guard should be able to dump the ball into eddy curry. It's a basic skill most guards learn very early. I'm sure Curry wouldn't miss him. If we had a shooter that needed a double team, not crawford. Curry's game would explode.
Someone stated Stats aren't everything, I agree. Crawford plays hard and has a good attitude, I just don't think he's improved at all and i don't think his outside shooting skill matches that of a NBA caliber shooter. He can break people down and drive. Wich makes him versatile, but he's not a consistent Shooting threat. His shot selection, which is suppose to have a player take better/easier shots, more likely to go in. Having a positive effect of ones shooting %. By taking better/easier shots and hitting them. I don't care if he is taking better/easier shots and still missing! What good is that? I mean seriously? I hope and pray crawford makes me eat my words this season. I hope he turns the corner and does all the things people keep saying he's done the past couple seasons(but really hasn't, like improve any part of his game). I'll be the first to give him props on knicks online forums! But stop with the delusions. One Guy said it has been the best season of his career? What makes it so good? What makes it so much better than the years with chicago and the first year here that he avgs 17points? 0.6 assists per game come on 0.53 turnoersmore a game(you do realize those are bad, right?) His best year with the knicks.was

2004-05, 17.7ppg career High, 4.3 apg, 2.9 rpg , 1.3 steals 2.11 TO's

the previous year with chicago was even better

2003-04 17.3ppg(0.4 less than career high in 2004-05) 5.1 assists(career high) 3.5 rebounds (career high) 1.4 steal(career high) 2.41 TO's also career high in blocks: .4 per game (career high)

2006-07 17.6ppg, 4.4 assist, 3.2rebounds, 1.0 steals 2.75 TO's .1 blocks

thats was last season, not one career best. Not even his way awesome fg%
which he had better stats in 2001-02(career high.476), 2002-03 and 2005-07.

He is about the same in those 3 years 2003, 2004, and 2007, 2007 was his best fg% out of those years, but not one career high in any stat. Except turn overs.
 

datruth

Your Best Bet is B Ez
Any NBA level guard should be able to dump the ball into eddy curry. It's a basic skill most guards learn very early. I'm sure Curry wouldn't miss him. If we had a shooter that needed a double team, not crawford. Curry's game would explode.

its not that easy, crawford and curry actually have great chemistry, they communicate without even talking or making a play, if its that easy to dunk it into curry, why is dat when crawford got hurt, that alley oop play like vanished and curry was working harder to get his buckets?
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
Crawford has great potential. He has good form on his jumper but he makes bad decisions when shooting the rock which makes everyone think that he's garbage. If he could improve his shot selection then his game would improve drastically. Otherwise his shooting percentage is going to stay in the mid-high 30% and his TO's will be above the average mark. Personally I like Crawford but he's so frustrating to watch at times that people want to trade him in a heart beat. Let the kid grow before we ship him. He has that clutch factor on this team that no one has. He will improve eventually...
 
Any NBA level guard should be able to dump the ball into eddy curry. It's a basic skill most guards learn very early. I'm sure Curry wouldn't miss him. If we had a shooter that needed a double team, not crawford. Curry's game would explode.
Someone stated Stats aren't everything, I agree. Crawford plays hard and has a good attitude, I just don't think he's improved at all and i don't think his outside shooting skill matches that of a NBA caliber shooter. He can break people down and drive. Wich makes him versatile, but he's not a consistent Shooting threat. His shot selection, which is suppose to have a player take better/easier shots, more likely to go in. Having a positive effect of ones shooting %. By taking better/easier shots and hitting them. I don't care if he is taking better/easier shots and still missing! What good is that? I mean seriously? I hope and pray crawford makes me eat my words this season. I hope he turns the corner and does all the things people keep saying he's done the past couple seasons(but really hasn't, like improve any part of his game). I'll be the first to give him props on knicks online forums! But stop with the delusions. One Guy said it has been the best season of his career? What makes it so good? What makes it so much better than the years with chicago and the first year here that he avgs 17points? 0.6 assists per game come on 0.53 turnoersmore a game(you do realize those are bad, right?) His best year with the knicks.was

2004-05, 17.7ppg career High, 4.3 apg, 2.9 rpg , 1.3 steals 2.11 TO's

the previous year with chicago was even better

2003-04 17.3ppg(0.4 less than career high in 2004-05) 5.1 assists(career high) 3.5 rebounds (career high) 1.4 steal(career high) 2.41 TO's also career high in blocks: .4 per game (career high)

2006-07 17.6ppg, 4.4 assist, 3.2rebounds, 1.0 steals 2.75 TO's .1 blocks

thats was last season, not one career best. Not even his way awesome fg%
which he had better stats in 2001-02(career high.476), 2002-03 and 2005-07.

He is about the same in those 3 years 2003, 2004, and 2007, 2007 was his best fg% out of those years, but not one career high in any stat. Except turn overs.


I hope you are not suggesting that Matt Carrol is better than Crawford? Or Barnes. Not buying it. These guys are spot up shooters, and one trick ponies. Not even fair.

Also, you seem to forget his role has changed year in and year out depending on the coach. One minute he starts, next minute he don't play. One minute he is the pg, next minute he is the two.

I go on what I see from a player. Not really their numbers ALL OF THE TIME.

For instance, Stephs numbers were way down for him, but most people watching him play would say he had his best overall season.

If you look at Mardy Collins numbers, you would not see anything spectacular. Cept we all know he played so well, we no longer wanted to see Francis on the court at all.

Jamal went down, the triple teams on Curry picked up. So as bad as you say he is as a shooter, the league must did not agree with you. H is by no means automatic from deep, but his mid range game is pretty solid. And because of his handle, he does not need to run off a million screen like Hamilton. Plus, rip is faster, so he gets around them very quickly. JC does not have that type of speed. They are diff. Rip is a better shooter. Period.

JC can however be a better scorer than him because of what he can create on his own. If you watched Crawford last year based on play, you would see clearly he was a better player. Took smarter shots, way more free throws, and created for others as well. And anyone REALLY paying attention last year knows with a healthy Crawford, we beat a lot of those teams we gave close games without him... mainly because Curry would not be a gazillion teamed, and we'd have one more player to help Curry and Steph score.

That said.. I can't wait to see how teams plan to gaurd JC this year when the lanes should be free to roam because of Zach and Curry.... yikes...
 

Kiyaman

Legend
I try my best not to speak about Crawford-Game Performance for the Knicks.
Why? He is the only SG on the Knicks.
The Knicks has been my TEAM for decades, but the Laydumb & Zeke Imagination mystery trade of Players has not been thrilling in the last 7 years.

How we Knick-fans are so optismistic that we use our imagination each offseason over Zekes trades or signings of a veteran player (we) thinking only the best of how this Player will help us WIN. Dedecaded-FANS we are.

Since Zeke arrived his imagination of a Starting-5 Unit has been
PG-Norris-Marbury-Francis,
SG-Penny-Crawford,
SF-Tim Thomas-Q.Richardson-Jalen Rose-Jefferies,
PF-Malik Rose-Taylor-Zack,
C-James-Curry.
All these players were traded for or signed to the MAX MLE.
Zeke was given the right tools ($$$) to get one decent Player for every Position.
Alot of NBA G.M.s wish they had half the priviledge that Isiah Thomas has with the Knicks.

Jamal Crawford showed the NBA his worth playing for the Chicago Bulls.
The Bulls ran their entire offense around PG-Jamal Crawford. The Bulls lost season after season.
Jamal Crawford was only worth the Max MLE. And thats all I would have offered him. If the Bulls would have matched that offer to keep Crawford they never would have made it to the playoffs with Crawford in their lineup (Ben Gordon would'nt have been given the chance to WIN so many last quarter games).
 
I try my best not to speak about Crawford-Game Performance for the Knicks.
Why? He is the only SG on the Knicks.
The Knicks has been my TEAM for decades, but the Laydumb & Zeke Imagination mystery trade of Players has not been thrilling in the last 7 years.

How we Knick-fans are so optismistic that we use our imagination each offseason over Zekes trades or signings of a veteran player (we) thinking only the best of how this Player will help us WIN. Dedecaded-FANS we are.

Since Zeke arrived his imagination of a Starting-5 Unit has been
PG-Norris-Marbury-Francis,
SG-Penny-Crawford,
SF-Tim Thomas-Q.Richardson-Jalen Rose-Jefferies,
PF-Malik Rose-Taylor-Zack,
C-James-Curry.
All these players were traded for or signed to the MAX MLE.
Zeke was given the right tools ($$$) to get one decent Player for every Position.
Alot of NBA G.M.s wish they had half the priviledge that Isiah Thomas has with the Knicks.

Jamal Crawford showed the NBA his worth playing for the Chicago Bulls.
The Bulls ran their entire offense around PG-Jamal Crawford. The Bulls lost season after season.
Jamal Crawford was only worth the Max MLE. And thats all I would have offered him. If the Bulls would have matched that offer to keep Crawford they never would have made it to the playoffs with Crawford in their lineup (Ben Gordon would'nt have been given the chance to WIN so many last quarter games).


For what he have going inside, Crawford fits the team just fine. Are there better players at his position in the league? For sure. But he is not a bum. By no means is he that. And he is more than capable of playing well on this team. He is not the problem.

Secondly, Crawford and Gordon never played on the same team.
 

KnicksFan4Realz

Benchwarmer
Isn't Crawford a little old in his years in the NBA to still be using the "p" word..."potential" you say that about a guy who was less than 4 years into the league....he's entering his what 7th, 8th?
 

datruth

Your Best Bet is B Ez
Isn't Crawford a little old in his years in the NBA to still be using the "p" word..."potential" you say that about a guy who was less than 4 years into the league....he's entering his what 7th, 8th?

well he supposedly only play 2 years of high school basketball and 1 year of college basketball but thats not really an excuse, but the fact some of ya make it seem jamal is a bum is pathetic like comparing em to jamey caroll and matt barrnes is outragoues
 

lilman_bklyn

Rotation player
I am willing to trade Crawford in an instant, but not for Matt Carrol or Matt Barnes. Do you see how Matt Barnes is searching and searching for a team to pick him up in his free agent year, there is a reason why those players have been on so many teams, its because they are role players. They just happen to have good years, that shit happens, that does not mean those guys are better than Crawford... not in the least.

Crawford is a talent, and it surely surely must be noted that he has not had the same coach for 2 consecutive seasons as a Knick. I know some people will say so what, but that is an important issue. The knicks of the 90s never got to be a sucessful team until Pat Riley came and put some stability in the orginization. This is an important issue that should not be glossed over. Now with Zeke coming back to the bench this will give Craw his first consecutive seasons with the same coach with the same ideas and plays and having his role defined (unless of course he is traded b4 that time).
 

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
let's not shit on our own just cuz there's better out there... crawford has all star potential... but he needs to smarten up... i would only move him if we got a money scorer in return (kapono, mo peterson)...
 

GiantsKnickFan

Benchwarmer
Isn't Crawford a little old in his years in the NBA to still be using the "p" word..."potential" you say that about a guy who was less than 4 years into the league....he's entering his what 7th, 8th?

I think crawford is good player. There are only 2 other players in the nba with more game winning shots the last 2 seasons than crawford. Thats clutch.
I think he is best suited to be a back up to either the PG or SG. Hes too inconsistant when starting.. when LB made him his 6th man, jamal played the best of his career. Last yr, IT gave jamal full confidence and jamal regressed back to his chucking up fade away 3's all game.
Make him come off the bench. Collins can play well next to marbury, that will also help our perimter D, and can have steph play off the ball for a lil bit. since marbury improved his shooting from 3 last yr, this is could work.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Crawford has the talent to be an All-Star. If he just worked on his 3-point shooting efficiency and made better decisions with his shot selection he could be a "Ray Allen" type shooting guard. Ofcourse the important thing to remember is that he could be an All-Star. There are a lot of guys that have talent but don't use it properly.
 
Why are there two threads devoted to JC this week? I've been really critical of Jamal this off season for some reason so I went to NBA.com and just watched some of his highlights last night. The thing that impresses me about Jamal is his ability to hit tough shots...the thing that pisses me off about Jamal is that he often causes shots to be difficult shots. I mean I want to say he has potential but, like it was stated earlier, can we really be saying that about a seven year player who still makes rookie mistakes. I mean we still say Eddy has "potential" to be this or that, but it almost seems more realistic to think Eddy's game will evolve. To Jamal's credit there have been times when he has stepped up for us, like in the home game against Pheonix this past season, we were undermanned playing an elite team, and he kept us in it, and like was also stated he has a positive attitude both on and off the court. But I think he may be better suited for another team, what can we get from him if he is not scoring is the question I often pose on this site. A player like Kobe, D- Wade, Rip, or Joe Johnson will take advantage of him on defense. Again to his credit he can light them up too when he's hot, but it is a real hit or miss with Jamal either his is lighting up D-Wade or getting burned by Willie Green. I remember the game against the Bulls this year when we were mounting a comeback and, he was in a 1 on 3 fast break, and he forces the shot I think gets called for a charge, then the Bulls come down a bury a 3 the next possesion breaking our momentum. And that is the problem after 7 years he's still making those mistakes, seriously Mardy Collins a rookie wouldn't have made that mistake, I don't think Nate as a sophomore would've either (and that's saying something). I like his handle on the ball, and he's as quick a guard in the NBA, but these are offensive traits ! Our interior D is the worst in the League! So we need solid defenders on the perimeter, not the type who can play D at times. If what I read was true that he just started playing less than 10 years ago, then that would explain his lack of knowledge of the game, I just don't think he knows anything other than put the ball in the hoop. Can he come back with a new understanding after this off season?....yeah in fact I think all the talk of compettion in the backcourt may mean that all of our guards are going to be working hard this offseason on their weaknesses, so I am in no way saying he's a lost cause. But what he shows us this year is who he's going to be for the rest of his NBA career. So the potential tag has been lifted, Steve is gone so there is no question as to who is starting and who's coming off the bench at the 2, and now let's see what we have here, another Rip, or another Ricky Davis, Ray Allen or J.R. Smith.
 

jzero29

Rotation player
I hope you are not suggesting that Matt Carrol is better than Crawford? Or Barnes. Not buying it. These guys are spot up shooters, and one trick ponies. Not even fair.

Jamal went down, the triple teams on Curry picked up. So as bad as you say he is as a shooter, the league must did not agree with you. H is by no means automatic from deep, but his mid range game is pretty solid. And because of his handle, he does not need to run off a million screen like Hamilton. Plus, rip is faster, so he gets around them very quickly. JC does not have that type of speed. They are diff. Rip is a better shooter. Period.

JC can however be a better scorer than him because of what he can create on his own. If you watched Crawford last year based on play, you would see clearly he was a better player. Took smarter shots, way more free throws, and created for others as well. And anyone REALLY paying attention last year knows with a healthy Crawford, we beat a lot of those teams we gave close games without him... mainly because Curry would not be a gazillion teamed, and we'd have one more player to help Curry and Steph score.
.

For what he have going inside, Crawford fits the team just fine. Are there better players at his position in the league? For sure. But he is not a bum. By no means is he that. And he is more than capable of playing well on this team. He is not the problem.
.

well he supposedly only play 2 years of high school basketball and 1 year of college basketball but thats not really an excuse, but the fact some of ya make it seem jamal is a bum is pathetic like comparing em to jamey caroll and matt barrnes is outragoues

let's not shit on our own just cuz there's better out there... crawford has all star potential... but he needs to smarten up... i would only move him if we got a money scorer in return (kapono, mo peterson)...

I think crawford is good player. There are only 2 other players in the nba with more game winning shots the last 2 seasons than crawford. Thats clutch.
I think he is best suited to be a back up to either the PG or SG. Hes too inconsistant when starting.. when LB made him his 6th man, jamal played the best of his career. Last yr, IT gave jamal full confidence and jamal regressed back to his chucking up fade away 3's all game.
Make him come off the bench. Collins can play well next to marbury, that will also help our perimter D, and can have steph play off the ball for a lil bit. since marbury improved his shooting from 3 last yr, this is could work.



Knicks for life and datruth write he's not better than mat carrol, i'm not saying they have better games, they are just better SG. With all the scoring options we have, Curry, Zach, marbury, q-rich even robinson off bench. Do we really need another scorer or just some one who can take a step back and consistently hit 3's. Like those guys i compared him to. They also were cheap, p.s. mat carrol just inked himself a nice little long term contract. We only need a role player with all the other scoreing. Take away jamaals game, are you saying marbury and nate can't break people down? are you saying no one else has mid range jumper? not q rich or zach? every part of his game,except his heart, is replacable. I'll give him that he tries hard. But passing to curry? any point guard worth his salt should be able to do that? isn't that a point guard job, feeding the big men inside?

and shairan we don't need a great scoring sg, we just need someone defenses don't want to leave open behind the 3. Hate to say it but most other shooting guards can do that. We have plenty of scoring elsewhere.

knicksforlife, lets not get crazy with the triple teams. I'll give you the double teams not triple teams.
Giantsknickfan, your right on track, crawford is a good back up pg/sg type player. He's good off the bench. He's not a spot up shooter that can help spread the defense. You are right he did regress back to his chucking days in some games. I'd like to see him play a less dominant role in the offense, less shots, let zach take more mid range give marbury more shots take a couple away from jamaal. He's an overpaid backup, that shots to much. But where did you get that stat about the most game winning shots? I'd like to see that. I'd also like to see how many chances these other guys had, plus how many he didn't make, i watched 80% of games. I remember a few games where he came up big and a bunch more where he came up short.

I'm not saying he's a bumb or worthless, he's just overpaid and not as good as people give him credit for. He's mediocre. He's dare i say it again, replacable. I'm telling you, get a real SG and you guys would never know he's gone. I'm telling you. Get a guy who makes more and shoots less, like matt carrol. That will leave more shots and scoring oppurtunities for the people on the knicks with more talent! Sure him and curry had chemistry, but jamaal and his midrange jumper took away fryes game. We need a pure PG and a pure SG, not a bunch of PG who act like sg's (marbury, robinson and fransis when here) and not SG who can't shoot and has to act as PG because we don't have a true one!!! I'm telling you for what we're paying him, we should get more...I hope jamaal proves me wrong. But So far each season his stats seem very similar each year, and the win total also! So I need to see some big improvements from him to become a crawford supporter. Or he'll always be the back up that gets to start and shoot to much to me. LB had his role Nailed! less shots, take only better shots and come off the bench. Now we need a real SG to start!
 

jzero29

Rotation player
great post isiahs advocate

Thats the truth, you said it. No more potential no more he improved so much last year, whe n he actually regressed. It's time for jamaal to put up, or shut up and become a career back up. Smeone thats only plays a role. I'd like to have him comming off the bench hitting clutch shots for us. But I haven't seen anything from him to show he should be a starter. He certainly hasn't shown me he should shot so much. But Lets play ball. He's got his shot. now let the chips fall where they may.
 

reuel

Rookie
Is it me or is Jamal more valuable to this team than steph? Our three best players last year was curry, lee, and crawford before he got injured, hands down marbury was played real good for just 3 months. and the season before that, Q, Crawford, and frye. Crawford won games by himself last season, he adapts easily to any style of play that the coach wants, while it takes marbury (who's been in the leage 11 years) half a season to get the concept of passing the ball to eddy curry. Dont get me wrong crawford can be replaced, but there aren't a lot of available SG that will fill his position better. to me Marubury is more expendable at his position.
 
Top