Do we need ron or kobe?

I know they are working a deal for ron artest, ever hear of the team with to many shooters? Chemistry problem? I like rons defense and his hustle, What he brings to the table is much needed on this knick teams. Unfortunately, I'm one of those guys who's tired of the players who have turned the sports section to the most crime filled section of the papers. I can't tell where the regular news stops and the sports begin. There is more violence/crime/propaganda and hold outs. Players saying dumb things. Ron, hasn't committed a crime, but he's not all there and no angel either. Michael Vick got in trouble for maintaining contact with his old crew, now we bring Artest home, where his old crew is all around. Basketball wise, good move, but long term, think disaster. I think there will be huge problem somewhere somehow with this player. He seems like he'd be right there with vick at the next dog fight and you know he'll be in the NY media, everyday saying something or doing something, it won't all be bad, but some will. Who's to say ron artest doesn't get suspended/arrested. I can see him trying to keep it real, hanging in old spots, maybe getting robbed, then carrying a gun and getting arrested. I see him as a ton of talent, lot of off the court headaches. We are the NY Knicks are we that desperate to win? I'd rather win with class. plus I don't think Artest will be in league that long. I see suspensions and problems.
I'd rather have Bryant, who i am not a fan of, i think he's to, selfish, although he took huge strides this past year, in trying to involve his teamates. I say we hold out for kobe. But he is also very talented.

The problem with your logic is: Artest is attainable, The Kings are desperate to get rid of him so we won't get raped by giving up everything we have. I'd much rather have Kobe but we have nothing to offer for him.

My question was do we really need him, and your answer proves mine

Kobe may not be obtainable now, but there is a reason why artest is available. Because he's a huge head case. He's not any more or less talented now with kings, then he'd be with the knicks. He's trouble and we don't need trouble. If we are going to trade for another gun. I think if anyone it should be kobe, and if he refuses to play for LA, they'll be desperate to trade him. We'd have to give up more, but he's better than artest and not a PR nightmare. He's had his trouble, but Kobe is smart, and he knows now that he got burned, he's smarter and more responsible and won't put himself in similar situation, Artest...not so much. He hasn't learned a thing from any of the situations he's found himself and will continue to create more situations. We'd be better off without artest, and if we can't get Kobe, we'd be better off with no extra trade.
My point was do we really need Artest or Kobe, maybe i mislead you by saying I'd rather have kobe of the two. But the point was, with curry randolph marbury crawford Q-rich, do we really need another player who's capable of averaging 20plus and may be unhappy if he doesn't get as many shots in a shooter filled offense. We do need artests Defense, but do we want the trouble that comes with it. I for one think he'll be in some sort of suspendable trouble, in the next year or two. Kobe brings good Defense, is a better talent, and is more level headed. If he's refusing to play for LA, he's going to go somewhere, Why not here. I'd trade curry, for kobe. in some sort of package with a maybe oden also. Send Curry, jamaalor Q, lee/balkman, one of the rookies and if thats not enough a draft pick, for kobe and oden. Oden, is overpaid maybe they'll want to ditch him. He's a defensive player, that i think would, prosper without the pressure of being a number two offensive option.so we'd have
C-Oden,
PF- randolp,
SF- Qrich or Kobe
SG- Crawford or Kobe
PG - marbury

with lee/balkman off bench.

J

No one here would take Ron over Kobe any day. But Ron is attainable, and may be the better fit for what the team needs. Kobe would give us the marquee name in the marquee city, for the marquee franchise, But as Getrealistic said ( aptly named for this subject ) it would be a raping beyond belief to get Kobe at this point. Rather than trading away huge pieces it would take to get him ( start with a budding Curry, and Lee off top ) I think it would serve the team more to keep those guys as they grow and get better and better, and add good players like Ron who do multiple things well to the mix. Plus Ron really wants to play here. Kobe just wants to play somewhere alongside other good players for his own selfish legacy ( which I would not mind in the least so long as it was here )

Ron is a much better defender than Kobe, and an adequate scorer from every spot in the half court. And the biggest thing is, he is muuuuuuch cheaper. If there were a way to get Kobe without giving up Curry, I'd love it. But don't see how the Lakers would take anything less in a deal for Kobe than by STARTING with Curry and Lee off top. In that case, take your chances with Ron who been feenin to be a Knick since his draft year. Hope he keeps his head. Because if he does, you have pulled the steal of the year.

Remember... he lives here. He knows how people will react to him actin up better than someone like Zach who just visits. It's a diff game when you're home and people know you and don't hold back. Ain't like being in Sac town. Dudes KNOW YOU LOL. So I personally think he'll be fine.

I guess I'm saying Ron >>> Kobe with this current team and what it would take to get Kobe.

And yes we need him.

SO no one is worried about artest?

So I guess,no one thinks ron artest will be a problem in the future, because he'll be home in NY, around all the wonderful people and influences that molded him into the perfectly stable,well grounded, sane young man he is.
Kobe and curry wouldn't be a perfect fit, curry needs to be fed the ball numerous times, kobe likes to shot to much to give curry consistent feeds, one or the other would prosper.
P.s. and again maybe i'm not making myself clear...i'd rather have neither, I was addressing the two major knicks trade proposals/rumors I've heard about this summer, knicks trading for artest, knicks trading for Kobe. I again hope neither happens, i don't think we need either. i think we have enough shooters/scorers. We don't need another. We could use artests defense and hustle, ability to score, but is it worth the headaches, that I guarentee will come with artest. Kobe also, plays good defense, and has that fire the knicks need, but he's selfish and shoots like crazy. I don't think you people understand, i don't want either. the title is do you really think we need artest or kobe? My answer is no, i said if we had to do one i'd rather it be Kobe, I definetaly don't think we need head case ron or me first kobe. I think both would be a great move, and we'd get results, but kobe i think wouldn't be so good for chemistry and artest i think, probably will get into some shannanagans and be suspended over the course of a season or two. The kid is unstable. If we had to trade for one, i'd give a little more for kobe, If the price comes down, I was pictureing getting a more defensive center,like odem, because we have randolph to fill curry's low post scoring and then odem's defense. Just a thought, if the lakers get desperate, like if kobe says, i won't play for you no matter what, i'll sit if i'm not traded, that would put huge pressure on the Lakers to get a deal done before the start of season. His price will drop when it gets to be a couple weeks before season and he's still sticking to his guns. I'd rather not have either, but of the two artest is a disaster waiting to happen.

i'd rather have either... i prefer kobe but i see no risk in getting ron since the price is right and we have to cut roster anyway... if he doesn't work out... we'll still have balk and maybe q to run the 3 spot...

Whats with the pizza icon above in the past few postings? I've haven't been able to get this joke in months. am i alone on this one??

jzero29 said:

I'd trade curry, for kobe. in some sort of package with a maybe oden also. Send Curry, jamaalor Q, lee/balkman, one of the rookies and if thats not enough a draft pick, for kobe and oden. Oden, is overpaid maybe they'll want to ditch him. He's a defensive player, that i think would, prosper without the pressure of being a number two offensive option.so we'd have
C-Oden,
PF- randolp,
SF- Qrich or Kobe
SG- Crawford or Kobe
PG - marbury

Click to expand...

If you were the LA Laker's GM would you really make this trade? if you say yes then that's why you're not a GM. because you're pretty much trading a whole knicks team who didnt make the playoffs last season for their whole "team" that did make the playoffs.

and how is Oden overpaid? he's a #1 draft pick, they have a mandatory salary for #1 draft picks, so he's being the paid the same thing lebron and all the other #1's got paid. plus portland is building their whole franchise around Oden its gonna take them at least three years to consider parting with him if it doesn't work out.

reuel said:

If you were the LA Laker's GM would you really make this trade? if you say yes then that's why you're not a GM. because you're pretty much trading a whole knicks team who didnt make the playoffs last season for their whole "team" that did make the playoffs.

and how is Oden overpaid? he's a #1 draft pick, they have a mandatory salary for #1 draft picks, so he's being the paid the same thing lebron and all the other #1's got paid. plus portland is building their whole franchise around Oden its gonna take them at least three years to consider parting with him if it doesn't work out.

Click to expand...

dude, i think he meant odom not oden... it still doesn't make sense though...

Starks said:

Whats with the pizza icon above in the past few postings? I've haven't been able to get this joke in months. am i alone on this one??

Click to expand...

i don't get the pizza either...

Uhm the pizza isn't a joke, i like pizza, so I make it.

Starks said:

Whats with the pizza icon above in the past few postings? I've haven't been able to get this joke in months. am i alone on this one??

Click to expand...

I just made that pizza, took a pickture of it and threw it on here. It makes me hungry at lunch time. It's not meant to be funny. Pizza rocks, and my pizza is awesome.

highesthigh said:

dude, i think he meant odom not oden... it still doesn't make sense though...

Click to expand...

well i thought that at first, but then he had Oden at the center positon on the knicks, so i was sure he was talking about Greg Oden. But if not disregard everything i said about Oden. but even with ODOM this trade will not work.

reuel said:

If you were the LA Laker's GM would you really make this trade? if you say yes then that's why you're not a GM. because you're pretty much trading a whole knicks team who didnt make the playoffs last season for their whole "team" that did make the playoffs.

and how is Oden overpaid? he's a #1 draft pick, they have a mandatory salary for #1 draft picks, so he's being the paid the same thing lebron and all the other #1's got paid. plus portland is building their whole franchise around Oden its gonna take them at least three years to consider parting with him if it doesn't work out.

Click to expand...

Sorry I made a mistake, it was odom, not oden, i was talking about, Odom is on the lakers, oden is not.
the trade i propsoed was confusing i guess, but i meant, curry, jamaal or q-rich, lee or balkman, maybe one of the rooks. throw in jarred jeff or jerome james, to get kobe and odom(sorry I meant odom not oden, being he's not a laker), odom, was signed by LA and makes 13million this season and he's not really turned the corner offensively, but having other scorers it wouldn't effect our offense. where in LA he's not the guy they thought he was. He avged 15 points last year. So if for 13mill you only get 9rebs a game and 15 points??? An inconsistent scorer? ODom is Not over paid??? I don't get that, he is overpaid for his performance. He was L.A.'s second option. On our team he could drop down to 4th or 5th behind, if we had kobe, randolph, marbury then q-rich or crawford whoever wasn't traded. Kobe would make up for the hustle of whoever was traded Lee or balkman. he plays tight defense and is a huge upgrade offessively. He can replace the offense of (crawford or Q) and (lee or Balkman) Oden, would add to our defense and he wouldn't need to score so much, it could drop him down to where he was with miami, not the first or second option, he was good.
L.a. may not agree to deal, but it could be half a bad knick team playing for you, or an empty kobe jersey in the locker room and kobe sitting at home. Curry can score, jamaal can replace kobe's chucking, minus the success.
As you say KOBE may be unavailable, but I don't want artest, you know as soon as he gets to town, he'll be hanging with his old crew, in places where a millionaire should not. His boys will be up to some things that are probably not legal, smoking weed carrying guns or whatever. Hopefully not dog fighting. Although I could see artest, hear about vicks trouble and think dog fighting is cool and actually defend it. Much like some other idiot did, saying it's like a pride thing being able to say you own the toughest dog. Do we really need a guy who at anytime can bug out and cause problems? I'd much rather hold out, forget about ron, he'll be available later, because they want him out, because he's trouble.I personally don't think we need either, just getting randolph was a huge improvement. But if all of you are in a panick from the boston thing and feel the need to add another huge guy, i'd pursue the kobe thing, LA MAY get desperate if KOBE won't play at all for them. Then the price will come down, and we may then get a steal. i love lee and balkman keeping one, is giving up a couple role players like crawford??? and lee or balkman, an unproven rookie, and a strickly offensive center(no interior defense), to get one of the best players in the game to much? When we'd still be left with so much other talent also.

I give up, But i think artest is a terrible trade.

Yeah if you only count basketball and nothing else. Artest is a great trade. But unfortunately, this is life. When you trade for a guy with issues, you get all his basketball talent, along with all his issues. Artest a near perfect fit, for practically nothing. I love the guys game, he's good at everything and prides himself on defense. But I bet dollars to donuts, that there will be a problem with Ron ron, when he gets here. Isn't anyone else disgusted with reading the sports section with all the news about players getting arrested, DWI's, doing drugs (performance enhancing and/or recreational) Being involved with fights and/or shootings in bars/strip clubs/general public areas. What does knowing ron artest have to do with him not freaking out? The guy is insane, he's out of his mind. He was suspended for most of a season and didn't give two $h1t$. He went unfazed and unchanged and played again. He's a meltdown waiting to happen. I'm done with guys like VICK, pacman jones, randy moss and terrel owens. Guys who cause problems. Vick is nothing more then a talented thug, who believed he could do anything he wanted because he's got cash. Guys like pacman jones, who can't stay out of trouble. owens still causing contraversy. These guys shouldn't have jobs. It makes me sick. Do you think that if any of these guys were regular players, maybe second string, would they have gotten cut, do you think artest would still be in NBA, if he was only a role player? These guys don't deserve the privillage they have, to make a living playing sports. To be adored by fans. They are trash and I don't want trash on my team. Buys like romanowski, several DWI's Numerous barfights against regular guys!! And instead of getting penalized he's allowed to buy his way out, paris hilton has done more time than some of these guys who deserve it. When your trash, your trash. there is no place in the public eye for garbage like this. Fighting with fans/strangers/competing thugs/strippers? Lets have some class and pass on artest. Don't bring disgrace into and upon our franchise.

First we all should agree that artest is a player that we need in NY.

secondly this is basketball, i think the media has gotten out of control with being extra critical on athletes lives. To me, I can careless if artest comes to NY hangs with people that smoke weed, go to strip clubs late night, and gets in the ocssional scuffle. as long as when he steps in madison square garden he is helping our team win.

This is the lives people lived before signing a milion dollar contract, you can't expect them to ditch everything and everyone that they grew up with. 3

and lastly, NY we love hard headed guys, if we wanted a white collard team we would be nets or celtics fans. we love knicks players like mason, oakley, sprewell, and Ewing.

if you want nice, good, clean basketball, then maybe you're the fan of the wrong team. cause its too late with the team we already have assembled

Good and clean, what did Ewing ever do that was illegal

reuel said:

First we all should agree that artest is a player that we need in NY.

secondly this is basketball, i think the media has gotten out of control with being extra critical on athletes lives. To me, I can careless if artest comes to NY hangs with people that smoke weed, go to strip clubs late night, and gets in the ocssional scuffle. as long as when he steps in madison square garden he is helping our team win.

This is the lives people lived before signing a milion dollar contract, you can't expect them to ditch everything and everyone that they grew up with. 3

and lastly, NY we love hard headed guys, if we wanted a white collard team we would be nets or celtics fans. we love knicks players like mason, oakley, sprewell, and Ewing.

if you want nice, good, clean basketball, then maybe you're the fan of the wrong team. cause its too late with the team we already have assembled

Click to expand...

Artest is the type of player we need in NY, I agree, he has the attitude about defense and playing hard we lack. But his personal issues bug me too much.
The team we have assembled??? WHat did they ever do, Curry, he's a good young guy, marbury, a little eccentric, but he's clean as a wistle, big bad david lee? Jamaal the crusher crawford? nate Robinson(nothing wrong with a little flash) Q-rich???Balkman?oooh, maybe you mean malicious malik rose? or jagged jarred jefferies? Jerome james?? Yeah some of these guys have attitude, and they have scuffled on court, with other basketball players. But thats not what i don't like about Artest, i don't like him charging after a fan, I don't like that he doesn't own up to it. I don't like that he stated he could use the time off during suspension, to promote an album, almost as if the nba was doing him a favor. I don't like the fact that he doesn't understand the line. There is a line you shouldn't cross, and he hasn't got a clue.

As for as players from the past, besides sprewell, choking the coach, and mason molesting a young lady, what did any of the other guys(ewing, oakely, LJ, Starks, Houston, ward,marbury, bernard king? walt frasier?) do that involved attacking someone who wasn't playing professional basketball against you. Those guys were tough guys, but they didn't attack fans. They were tough and didn't take any thing from anyone on court, but never charged into the stands to beat up a little guy. they fought with other NBA players of equal size or physical condition, not some short pudgy white guy. They never crossed that line. and even sprewell, choking the coach, at least it wasn't some nobody in the stands. I think sprewell has been in family trouble this past year, holding his kids hostage and threatening his wife., But he's twice as stable as artest. and none of that was with NY.Choking before and child hostage/wife threatening after.
Also I'm not saying that doing those things (smoking, drinking, and hanging at strip clubs and clubs) make you a bad guy. DWI(from drinking and drugs)Fighting(in clubs), carrying illegal guns, beating fans or people/bouncers in clubs, molesting women (at strip clubs or other places), living in another world as far as reality goes makes you a bad guy. Guys who want to get into dealing and buy tons of drugs, when they make hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars playing a sport, make them retarded and bad people. Are those the role models you want your family seeing on TV? Ewing, starks, oakley, even sprewell, with the knicks, never did anything like beat a fan. Sprewell apologized for the choking, artest, read some crazy statment and was like, this suspension gives me some time to pursue my rap career?!?!!? He was like, this is great, a vacation!!!?? He's nuts. He acts like he's the victim of the media, the media didn't beat that guy, he did. Steroids and drugs, guns, fighting, DWI's, all illegal activities which could include jail time and or suspensions, that would keep your precious head case from walking through those doors at MSG. They can keep him off the court. Or say million dollar ron is hanging in his old neighborhood, on the corner and some real thugs come up and mess with him and his boys, do you think he walks away? or gets in the brawl, that could end with him being shot, stabbed, or injured, say broken hand from punching someone, maybe arrested. What happened to Marbury, when he went back to Coney island wearing his bling bling, he was robbed at gun point, Artest not being all there, may not back down to a gun/knife totting attacker. I'm not saying it will be his fault, but when you put yourself in places where bad situations often occur, keeping it real, your gonna find yourself in a bad situation. Maybe even deadly. My whole point is that these behaviors lead to him not being able to walk through the doors on game night and perform. You can't play if your in hospital or jail.
You don't have to ditch everyone, you can bring them along, just not old habits, not illegal activities, that could affect your career. getting arrested, isn't cool. It isn't tough, it is stupid. Being a millionare and participating in illegal activities in public eye, ie...driving around, out at a club. whatever. You want strippers, your a millionare, rent out the place for the night, don't go in there and fight with the other clowns. Have some strippers come to your house, pay an independant security guy as a witness, so she doesn't accuse you of anything. You want to go out on the town, fine, take a cab/limo, don't drive around. Leave the guns/weapons at home. If you want to get high, oh well, do it at home. then go out...again don't drive, pay a friend to be the designated driver, or hire a pro. Hanging in the hood, leave the bling at home, jealousy, causes problems. There are a ton of talented atheletes who manage not to get arrested, not to get into trouble, who keep good friends. thats what i want, a higher standard. You are in the public eye, be responsible, you have the privellage to play a game for a living, i think you can keep things legal. If some guy in a club is giving you crap, speak to the bouncers and staff. I just don't think artest has the ability to keep himself out of major trouble. Trouble which could keep him from playing. Have you ever listend to interviews with this guy? he's nuts! He lives in RONNIE land. He's delusional. WHy would you want that? Representing NY. People all over say New Yorkers are rude, unfriendly and that NY isn't safe, why not have a guy who can represent the city, that we can be proud of. That helps us have a good rep. A class acts like JETER, WRIGHT, REYES, HOUSTON, WARD, EWING, OAKELY, MARBURY, STRAHAN, CURTIS MARTIN. Marbury is no angel, he's a little crazy sometimes, but he doesn't get into illegal troubles. I don't think artest can do the same, he lives in an alternate reality.
Plus if you think the media had twisted him into a villian at indiana or Sac-town, wait till he faces the media heat when he plays here. they'll be all over him like white on rice.

jzero29 said:

Artest is the type of player we need in NY, I agree, he has the attitude about defense and playing hard we lack. But his personal issues bug me too much.
The team we have assembled??? WHat did they ever do, Curry, he's a good young guy, marbury, a little eccentric, but he's clean as a wistle, big bad david lee? Jamaal the crusher crawford? nate Robinson(nothing wrong with a little flash) Q-rich???Balkman?oooh, maybe you mean malicious malik rose? or jagged jarred jefferies? Jerome james?? Yeah some of these guys have attitude, and they have scuffled on court, with other basketball players. But thats not what i don't like about Artest, i don't like him charging after a fan, I don't like that he doesn't own up to it. I don't like that he stated he could use the time off during suspension, to promote an album, almost as if the nba was doing him a favor. I don't like the fact that he doesn't understand the line. There is a line you shouldn't cross, and he hasn't got a clue.

As for as players from the past, besides sprewell, choking the coach, and mason molesting a young lady, what did any of the other guys(ewing, oakely, LJ, Starks, Houston, ward,marbury, bernard king? walt frasier?) do that involved attacking someone who wasn't playing professional basketball against you. Those guys were tough guys, but they didn't attack fans. They were tough and didn't take any thing from anyone on court, but never charged into the stands to beat up a little guy. they fought with other NBA players of equal size or physical condition, not some short pudgy white guy. They never crossed that line. and even sprewell, choking the coach, at least it wasn't some nobody in the stands. I think sprewell has been in family trouble this past year, holding his kids hostage and threatening his wife., But he's twice as stable as artest. and none of that was with NY.Choking before and child hostage/wife threatening after.
Also I'm not saying that doing those things (smoking, drinking, and hanging at strip clubs and clubs) make you a bad guy. DWI(from drinking and drugs)Fighting(in clubs), carrying illegal guns, beating fans or people/bouncers in clubs, molesting women (at strip clubs or other places), living in another world as far as reality goes makes you a bad guy. Guys who want to get into dealing and buy tons of drugs, when they make hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars playing a sport, make them retarded and bad people. Are those the role models you want your family seeing on TV? Ewing, starks, oakley, even sprewell, with the knicks, never did anything like beat a fan. Sprewell apologized for the choking, artest, read some crazy statment and was like, this suspension gives me some time to pursue my rap career?!?!!? He was like, this is great, a vacation!!!?? He's nuts. He acts like he's the victim of the media, the media didn't beat that guy, he did. Steroids and drugs, guns, fighting, DWI's, all illegal activities which could include jail time and or suspensions, that would keep your precious head case from walking through those doors at MSG. They can keep him off the court. Or say million dollar ron is hanging in his old neighborhood, on the corner and some real thugs come up and mess with him and his boys, do you think he walks away? or gets in the brawl, that could end with him being shot, stabbed, or injured, say broken hand from punching someone, maybe arrested. What happened to Marbury, when he went back to Coney island wearing his bling bling, he was robbed at gun point, Artest not being all there, may not back down to a gun/knife totting attacker. I'm not saying it will be his fault, but when you put yourself in places where bad situations often occur, keeping it real, your gonna find yourself in a bad situation. Maybe even deadly. My whole point is that these behaviors lead to him not being able to walk through the doors on game night and perform. You can't play if your in hospital or jail.
You don't have to ditch everyone, you can bring them along, just not old habits, not illegal activities, that could affect your career. getting arrested, isn't cool. It isn't tough, it is stupid. Being a millionare and participating in illegal activities in public eye, ie...driving around, out at a club. whatever. You want strippers, your a millionare, rent out the place for the night, don't go in there and fight with the other clowns. Have some strippers come to your house, pay an independant security guy as a witness, so she doesn't accuse you of anything. You want to go out on the town, fine, take a cab/limo, don't drive around. Leave the guns/weapons at home. If you want to get high, oh well, do it at home. then go out...again don't drive, pay a friend to be the designated driver, or hire a pro. Hanging in the hood, leave the bling at home, jealousy, causes problems. There are a ton of talented atheletes who manage not to get arrested, not to get into trouble, who keep good friends. thats what i want, a higher standard. You are in the public eye, be responsible, you have the privellage to play a game for a living, i think you can keep things legal. If some guy in a club is giving you crap, speak to the bouncers and staff. I just don't think artest has the ability to keep himself out of major trouble. Trouble which could keep him from playing. Have you ever listend to interviews with this guy? he's nuts! He lives in RONNIE land. He's delusional. WHy would you want that? Representing NY. People all over say New Yorkers are rude, unfriendly and that NY isn't safe, why not have a guy who can represent the city, that we can be proud of. That helps us have a good rep. A class acts like JETER, WRIGHT, REYES, HOUSTON, WARD, EWING, OAKELY, MARBURY, STRAHAN, CURTIS MARTIN. Marbury is no angel, he's a little crazy sometimes, but he doesn't get into illegal troubles. I don't think artest can do the same, he lives in an alternate reality.
Plus if you think the media had twisted him into a villian at indiana or Sac-town, wait till he faces the media heat when he plays here. they'll be all over him like white on rice.

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uhh... what???????

woah you have a lot to say, lol its cool though.

okay like you, i dont want a guy molesting girls, or shooting people, or fighting fans. that is blatantly wrong and should not be tolerated.

Athletes do have a responsibility to their fans to be the best role model out.

Oakley, Mason, Sprewell, and Ewing all had off their court legal issues, they all had fights on the court, just like Ron they all have had their isssues. and we can also throw in zach randolph, charles barkley, and even dennis rodman into this category.

Yes, Ron does not have all of his screws tightened in his head. he's has his problems. but it seems like Ron artest can't ever do right in this league because of one night in detroit.

just like rodman, just like barkley and like randolph, and the end of the day Ron Artest is worth the risk. just like stephen jackson was worth the risk in golden state and became the reason they beat the mavs in the last game of that series, just like terrell owens was worth the risk and the eagles went to the Super Bowl.

jzero29 said:

Artest is the type of player we need in NY, I agree, he has the attitude about defense and playing hard we lack. But his personal issues bug me too much.
The team we have assembled??? WHat did they ever do, Curry, he's a good young guy, marbury, a little eccentric, but he's clean as a wistle, big bad david lee? Jamaal the crusher crawford? nate Robinson(nothing wrong with a little flash) Q-rich???Balkman?oooh, maybe you mean malicious malik rose? or jagged jarred jefferies? Jerome james?? Yeah some of these guys have attitude, and they have scuffled on court, with other basketball players. But thats not what i don't like about Artest, i don't like him charging after a fan, I don't like that he doesn't own up to it. I don't like that he stated he could use the time off during suspension, to promote an album, almost as if the nba was doing him a favor. I don't like the fact that he doesn't understand the line. There is a line you shouldn't cross, and he hasn't got a clue.

As for as players from the past, besides sprewell, choking the coach, and mason molesting a young lady, what did any of the other guys(ewing, oakely, LJ, Starks, Houston, ward,marbury, bernard king? walt frasier?) do that involved attacking someone who wasn't playing professional basketball against you. Those guys were tough guys, but they didn't attack fans. They were tough and didn't take any thing from anyone on court, but never charged into the stands to beat up a little guy. they fought with other NBA players of equal size or physical condition, not some short pudgy white guy. They never crossed that line. and even sprewell, choking the coach, at least it wasn't some nobody in the stands. I think sprewell has been in family trouble this past year, holding his kids hostage and threatening his wife., But he's twice as stable as artest. and none of that was with NY.Choking before and child hostage/wife threatening after.
Also I'm not saying that doing those things (smoking, drinking, and hanging at strip clubs and clubs) make you a bad guy. DWI(from drinking and drugs)Fighting(in clubs), carrying illegal guns, beating fans or people/bouncers in clubs, molesting women (at strip clubs or other places), living in another world as far as reality goes makes you a bad guy. Guys who want to get into dealing and buy tons of drugs, when they make hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars playing a sport, make them retarded and bad people. Are those the role models you want your family seeing on TV? Ewing, starks, oakley, even sprewell, with the knicks, never did anything like beat a fan. Sprewell apologized for the choking, artest, read some crazy statment and was like, this suspension gives me some time to pursue my rap career?!?!!? He was like, this is great, a vacation!!!?? He's nuts. He acts like he's the victim of the media, the media didn't beat that guy, he did. Steroids and drugs, guns, fighting, DWI's, all illegal activities which could include jail time and or suspensions, that would keep your precious head case from walking through those doors at MSG. They can keep him off the court. Or say million dollar ron is hanging in his old neighborhood, on the corner and some real thugs come up and mess with him and his boys, do you think he walks away? or gets in the brawl, that could end with him being shot, stabbed, or injured, say broken hand from punching someone, maybe arrested. What happened to Marbury, when he went back to Coney island wearing his bling bling, he was robbed at gun point, Artest not being all there, may not back down to a gun/knife totting attacker. I'm not saying it will be his fault, but when you put yourself in places where bad situations often occur, keeping it real, your gonna find yourself in a bad situation. Maybe even deadly. My whole point is that these behaviors lead to him not being able to walk through the doors on game night and perform. You can't play if your in hospital or jail.
You don't have to ditch everyone, you can bring them along, just not old habits, not illegal activities, that could affect your career. getting arrested, isn't cool. It isn't tough, it is stupid. Being a millionare and participating in illegal activities in public eye, ie...driving around, out at a club. whatever. You want strippers, your a millionare, rent out the place for the night, don't go in there and fight with the other clowns. Have some strippers come to your house, pay an independant security guy as a witness, so she doesn't accuse you of anything. You want to go out on the town, fine, take a cab/limo, don't drive around. Leave the guns/weapons at home. If you want to get high, oh well, do it at home. then go out...again don't drive, pay a friend to be the designated driver, or hire a pro. Hanging in the hood, leave the bling at home, jealousy, causes problems. There are a ton of talented atheletes who manage not to get arrested, not to get into trouble, who keep good friends. thats what i want, a higher standard. You are in the public eye, be responsible, you have the privellage to play a game for a living, i think you can keep things legal. If some guy in a club is giving you crap, speak to the bouncers and staff. I just don't think artest has the ability to keep himself out of major trouble. Trouble which could keep him from playing. Have you ever listend to interviews with this guy? he's nuts! He lives in RONNIE land. He's delusional. WHy would you want that? Representing NY. People all over say New Yorkers are rude, unfriendly and that NY isn't safe, why not have a guy who can represent the city, that we can be proud of. That helps us have a good rep. A class acts like JETER, WRIGHT, REYES, HOUSTON, WARD, EWING, OAKELY, MARBURY, STRAHAN, CURTIS MARTIN. Marbury is no angel, he's a little crazy sometimes, but he doesn't get into illegal troubles. I don't think artest can do the same, he lives in an alternate reality.
Plus if you think the media had twisted him into a villian at indiana or Sac-town, wait till he faces the media heat when he plays here. they'll be all over him like white on rice.

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dude, what the hell have you been putting in the pizza, yo???

If artest wasnt an asshole, i would rather have him but.... he is so, i would rather have kobe