Something For Nothing

I was thinking about the whole Ron Artest trade rumor situation, and how he may or may not be headed to the Knicks. Then I was reading on ESPN.com how a couple of trade proposals the Lakers shot down due to not wanting to part with Bynum,Odom, or a package containing both. Then I began to understand Kobe's frustration a little, see I think we're in a similar boat as the Lakers. We need Ron like the Lakers need a complimentary player to Kobe, but we have players tagged "untradable". Again I think David Lee is to our team as Bynum is to the Lakers, a very talanted Big with a huge upside, but both teams management won't part with these players for the good of the future, so they remain mediocore with the hope of being dominent one day.Too many GM's in the League run their rosters like college teams who pick up a great freshman class in the hopes that they will grow together and be a force come their Junior and Senior seasons, the problem is I can't think of one team in recent years that started out young together, all stuck together and won a championship contender. So focusing on just the Knicks now I have to say that we are not good enough a team to have "untradables'". If there is a player out there who can make us into a championship contender that we have to persue it, and yes we may have to sacrafice a player who actually plays well, and doesn't just have a tradable contract. Aside from the Q Rich trade for Kurt Thomas, all of our moves have been pretty lopsided in our advatage from a talent standpoint. I mean if Steve Francis had worked out as expected, he too wouldv'e been another example of our lopsided trades. Look Dany Ainge got Garnett because of Mchale and his relationship, but even still he had to give up some significant peices to pull it off. So the word is we only part with D.Lee if we can land a player like Kobe Garnett etc. further reiterating our "something for nothing" trade thinking. Bottom line David Lee can't be the centerpeice to our trade proposal for a superstar. I've said this before what is the point of having David Lee if you really are expecting Zach to be your future PF? We are not a bad rebounding team even without Lee, we are a bad perimeter D team! If we can sacrafice a rebounder who can't play the perimeter, for a player who can play the perimeter and is a decent rebounder, then I would gladly pull the trigger on this deal. Not to just pick on Lee, I like his game, but he won't land us Kobe I don't care who we package him with, he is as one dementional as any of our combo guards (really think about it), Balkman won't ever grab as many boards as D.Lee, but he is indeed more versitile. Plus if we put David Lee in a package we can ship out one of our garbage contracts ie. Jerome James or Jared Jefferies and still could wind up with a pick from Sac. Not to mention David Lee's minutes will go down next season, so why not trade him somewhere where he can start? Look to wrap this up we need to stop trying to squeeze a home run out of a bunt, lets make the neccessary changes to make us legit again.

This forum is not ready for talks about trading David Lee. Here, Lee is better than Eddie Curry, Zach Randolph, Tim Duncan, Michael Jordan and the Pope. David Lee is the greatest player that ever lived to NY fans. So you can't EVER talk about trading him. If these posters knew where you lived they would come after you.

I like Lee coming of the bench. I always have. He's a great back up and brings great energy. I would only trade him in a package for Kobe. Artest will make is way over here eventually so there's no need to trade our youth core for him.

Yeah what I like about David Lee is that he stays after practice and practices more on his weaknesses. Thats why he had a huge breakthrough this season. Also because he actually got a chance to play, Larry Brown basically sat him his rookie year 17 mpg.. This year 30 mpg! How is his injury anyone got more news about that?

How does David Lee get 30 mpg this season? I'm proud to have Lee on the team like I was proud to have Oakley, but even Oak got traded for a player that made us a finals team that season, and Oak went to a team that he helped lead to the playoffs. Camby will never be as popular as Oak to Knick fans, but frankly he made us a better team, the same with Lee and Artest. Lee is a favorite, but Artest will make us better. The reason this forum doesn't want Lee to get traded is that he had a great season last year, but if Lee struggles next season then this forum will be full of threads talking about how dumb Isiah was for not pulling the trigger on a deal including Lee. Real Talk

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/david_lee/index.html?nav=page

Here you go in 58 games he played he averaged 29.8 mpg.

i'm with donchris... i would only package lee for a kobe package since we can get ron next summer and our current roster can make the playoffs... and lee can get his 30 if curry and zach each play 33...

No way should Lee or Balkman go in that deal...

Especially considering what the other interested teams have to offer. Even if the Knicks give up Nate and some players, it would STILL be much better than what the other teams can offer. Plus Ron would resign with us in a heartbeat. Those teams would have to worry about his opting out and leaving. He'd surely stay here for the long haul. No need to make a panic move, especially with a playoff team in place. Plus, with the way Balkman is developing, it would not be a bad idea to allow him to blossom anyways. Lee is priceless to the team based on the fact he can play pf and c vs smaller lineups. That means he can come in for Randolph or Curry and still just do his job, hustle and rebound while Curry or Zach still be the focal point of the offense.

Still think the Knicks will get him. They can provide the best deal for sac town. Without a Lee or Balkman.

nyKnicks126 said:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/david_lee/index.html?nav=page

Here you go in 58 games he played he averaged 29.8 mpg.

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Yes that was before Zach was in town, it one thing to give Channing Frye 22mins so Lee can play 30 mpg, but do you really think we traded for Zach to see him play those types of minutes?

Look I want to make this clear.....I would love to love to land Ron without parting w/ Lee or Balk, but if that is what it comes down to than we have to seriously consider moving one of them. But let's hope it doesn't come to that

Isiah's Advocate 33 said:

How does David Lee get 30 mpg this season? I'm proud to have Lee on the team like I was proud to have Oakley, but even Oak got traded for a player that made us a finals team that season, and Oak went to a team that he helped lead to the playoffs. Camby will never be as popular as Oak to Knick fans, but frankly he made us a better team, the same with Lee and Artest. Lee is a favorite, but Artest will make us better. The reason this forum doesn't want Lee to get traded is that he had a great season last year, but if Lee struggles next season then this forum will be full of threads talking about how dumb Isiah was for not pulling the trigger on a deal including Lee. Real Talk

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Its partly true. But i dont see Lee "struggling" becuase he was effective without a jumper. We dont see any other glaring weaknesses because he doesnt command the ball. Its easy to focus on a players weakness when they are constantly with the ball. Lee rebounds which doesnt take any particular physical skill, just good instincts, footing, angles, and the single most over looked part of rebounding, boxing out.
On the offensive end he garners alot of attention which frees up rebs for curry, Q etc..
Hes not a player that is put in many situations to struggle as per say curry, crawford, marbury.
The key is that he may not progress into anything but an effective rebounder with good skills in other facets.
For Lee to be an elite player he needs to develop a jumper, some more elaborate post moves, and be a bit more active in his weakside D. (a la AK47, R. Wallace)
I would not trade lee this offseason, simply becuase no one knows if he WILL develop into an elite player or not. This yr, should show more, if he has developed some of his weaknesses. If not, he's still a stud off the bench. A much much more effective varejao, and thats real key for playoff teams to have that kinda guy off the bench.

thomas spent a great deal of last season winning back the fans after that horrible season with larry brown as head coach and one of the reasons why he won the fans back is david lee's play... see the highlight game winning tip-in... all that work is wasted as soon as you trade lee... you'd alienate your fanbase if you trade lee... oak scenario is different because the fans have seen the ewing-oak-starks trio play together for a while and have seen them pretty much take the team as far as they can which is very close to a championship but not quite all the way, and by that time a lot of knick fans doubted that they could go all the way and were ready for some major changes even trading their beloved trio... right now lee is the knick fans' darling and they want to see how far this kid can go, he's only had one season of play thus far because larry brown made him a benchwarmer so he's a long way from his ceiling... you trade this kid right now and the fans will run you out of town... unless of course we're talking kobe...

Lee and Balkman must NOT be traded. The line up we've got is a good line up. They just need a strategy to play by and MUST play as a team. If they play a lil D, improve on free throws and play team ball there is no reason why this team wont make it deep in the play offs or rank high on the list of play off teams. There's allot of potential here and the media is underestimating the Knicks. This will be the year we've been waiting for. NY will compete!

Lee isn't the best player ever.I love the guy bt get serious.

nyKnicks126 said:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/david_lee/index.html?nav=page

Here you go in 58 games he played he averaged 29.8 mpg.

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There is no way lee gets 30minutes, unless balkman gets practiacally none. Lee can't play center. Not against a center. He's not big enough. With randolph and balkman taking minutes from lee, it's not realistic.Plus if the rookies get any sort of time. Not to mention Q-rich could be playing SF.

highesthigh said:

thomas spent a great deal of last season winning back the fans after that horrible season with larry brown as head coach and one of the reasons why he won the fans back is david lee's play... see the highlight game winning tip-in... all that work is wasted as soon as you trade lee... you'd alienate your fanbase if you trade lee... oak scenario is different because the fans have seen the ewing-oak-starks trio play together for a while and have seen them pretty much take the team as far as they can which is very close to a championship but not quite all the way, and by that time a lot of knick fans doubted that they could go all the way and were ready for some major changes even trading their beloved trio... right now lee is the knick fans' darling and they want to see how far this kid can go, he's only had one season of play thus far because larry brown made him a benchwarmer so he's a long way from his ceiling... you trade this kid right now and the fans will run you out of town... unless of course we're talking kobe...

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1st, he won the fans back with a sub-500 season(33-49)? thats ridiculous.I'm not won back, I thought he'd do as much. LB could have gotten 10 more wins, anyone could have, They only won like 23 games, how could you not improve on that? I think this year, with the Randolph trade, i'm excited. But last year was a bust, a lot of hype and praise for to little wins. Maybe if they had made the playoffs, i'd say they weren't a bust.(LB took each one of his second year teams to the playoffs.) A .500 season or playoffs would have made me happy. Our teamstill stunk last year. Sure there were some good highlights. Some Good games, but not enough wins.
2nd, If the knicks are winning, I mean above .500. not a pitifull 33 games, do you really think they miss LEE, do you think, getting a superior talent for lee, and helping the knicks win alienates the fan base? I'd rather not trade Lee, but if you add artest, and we have randolp, q-rich and balkman all playing at the forward position, do we have room for him? I mean, unless balkman goes in trade. I like those guys, lee and balkman but if the knicks trade for artest and we still have randolph and q rich lee balkman and now artest, where do we get minutes for 5 people with only two positions? Q can play some shooting guard, but you can't put balkman there, he can't shoot. I'd rather not have artest at all. He's a head case. He's bound to make negative headlines somehow. The team could use him and he'd be an upgrade from lee. But Lee has managed to keep his nose clean and stay out of trouble. Basket ball wise, i'd make the trade, personally based on off court behavior and in rons case on court behavior, beating opponents fans and what not, I'd not trade for artest. Kobe, a long shot, and probably impossible i'd include balkman or lee. U have to give up talent to get talent. artest isn't worth the headaches, but if you were only talking B-ball, I'd trade lee for artest. It's almost pointless not to include lee or balkman in a trade for artest. we'd be log jammed and minutes would be reduced.

David Lee was the Knicks 2006-7 MVP

It is very hard to talk to Knick-Fans this Offseason about the quality of David Lee performance.

David Lee is an Abidextrous WINNER that could switch and play all three Frontcourt position well and add Scoring, Rebounds, Assists, Steals, plus he is the best complimentary teammate on the Knicks Roster.
All of this has been proved under two head coaches for two seasons (Brown & Thomas).

David Lee is a 100% better than Zack Randolph (You will see this when the season starts).
David Lee showed he is a compliment to Curry and Marbury Style of play inwhich gambling that Complimetary player Ron Artest could do the same is taking a BIG chance on upgrading the Kings Frontcourt with 7.0 Miller & 6.9 Lee.

David Lee proved last season that he was a Starter at any of the three Frontcourt positions by complimenting performances with each of the Knicks Starters. And he even averaged a double-double while playing to Curry, Marbury, Crawford, and Q.Richardson style of play.

David Lee & Crawford are not BENCH-PLAYERS on this Knick-Team if your looking for the WIN. Crawford & Lee should've been STARTERS in the midseason with Coach Larry Brown. They Both are Starters & Finishers on this Knick team much more than Curry and Marbury.

What alot of Knick-Fans did not notice last season was the Majority of David Lee 28 MPG playingtime was with Eddy Curry to make Curry game look good.
We Knick-Fans did not see much or any of David Lee playingtime with Channing Frye accept the Games after the Denver Brawl when both Frye & Lee were getting double-doubles (check last season schedule).
When Lee went down with injuries the Knicks needed Crawford to help them WIN in the 4th quarter of every game last season because Curry & Marbury was not effective at all in the 4th quarter.

Kiyaman said:

It is very hard to talk to Knick-Fans this Offseason about the quality of David Lee performance.

David Lee is an Abidextrous WINNER that could switch and play all three Frontcourt position well and add Scoring, Rebounds, Assists, Steals, plus he is the best complimentary teammate on the Knicks Roster.
All of this has been proved under two head coaches for two seasons (Brown & Thomas).

David Lee is a 100% better than Zack Randolph (You will see this when the season starts).
David Lee showed he is a compliment to Curry and Marbury Style of play inwhich gambling that Complimetary player Ron Artest could do the same is taking a BIG chance on upgrading the Kings Frontcourt with 7.0 Miller & 6.9 Lee.

David Lee proved last season that he was a Starter at any of the three Frontcourt positions by complimenting performances with each of the Knicks Starters. And he even averaged a double-double while playing to Curry, Marbury, Crawford, and Q.Richardson style of play.

David Lee & Crawford are not BENCH-PLAYERS on this Knick-Team if your looking for the WIN. Crawford & Lee should've been STARTERS in the midseason with Coach Larry Brown. They Both are Starters & Finishers on this Knick team much more than Curry and Marbury.

What alot of Knick-Fans did not notice last season was the Majority of David Lee 28 MPG playingtime was with Eddy Curry to make Curry game look good.
We Knick-Fans did not see much or any of David Lee playingtime with Channing Frye accept the Games after the Denver Brawl when both Frye & Lee were getting double-doubles (check last season schedule).
When Lee went down with injuries the Knicks needed Crawford to help them WIN in the 4th quarter of every game last season because Curry & Marbury was not effective at all in the 4th quarter.

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You've got to cut down on the wacky tabacky. No way is David Lee better than Randolph. If you believe this then you must also believe Lee is better than Curry because "statistically" Randolph is better than Curry. It's a nonsensical argument. Next you'll tell me Vince Carter is better than Kobe Bryant. The kid had a good year and has a bright future. We should leave it at that.

jzero29 said:

There is no way lee gets 30minutes, unless balkman gets practiacally none. Lee can't play center. Not against a center. He's not big enough. With randolph and balkman taking minutes from lee, it's not realistic.Plus if the rookies get any sort of time. Not to mention Q-rich could be playing SF.


1st, he won the fans back with a sub-500 season(33-49)? thats ridiculous.I'm not won back, I thought he'd do as much. LB could have gotten 10 more wins, anyone could have, They only won like 23 games, how could you not improve on that? I think this year, with the Randolph trade, i'm excited. But last year was a bust, a lot of hype and praise for to little wins. Maybe if they had made the playoffs, i'd say they weren't a bust.(LB took each one of his second year teams to the playoffs.) A .500 season or playoffs would have made me happy. Our teamstill stunk last year. Sure there were some good highlights. Some Good games, but not enough wins.
2nd, If the knicks are winning, I mean above .500. not a pitifull 33 games, do you really think they miss LEE, do you think, getting a superior talent for lee, and helping the knicks win alienates the fan base? I'd rather not trade Lee, but if you add artest, and we have randolp, q-rich and balkman all playing at the forward position, do we have room for him? I mean, unless balkman goes in trade. I like those guys, lee and balkman but if the knicks trade for artest and we still have randolph and q rich lee balkman and now artest, where do we get minutes for 5 people with only two positions? Q can play some shooting guard, but you can't put balkman there, he can't shoot. I'd rather not have artest at all. He's a head case. He's bound to make negative headlines somehow. The team could use him and he'd be an upgrade from lee. But Lee has managed to keep his nose clean and stay out of trouble. Basket ball wise, i'd make the trade, personally based on off court behavior and in rons case on court behavior, beating opponents fans and what not, I'd not trade for artest. Kobe, a long shot, and probably impossible i'd include balkman or lee. U have to give up talent to get talent. artest isn't worth the headaches, but if you were only talking B-ball, I'd trade lee for artest. It's almost pointless not to include lee or balkman in a trade for artest. we'd be log jammed and minutes would be reduced.

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i was at the garden for a couple of games before the brawl and a few more times after that... the garden was as different as night and day... after the brawl and a string of a few dramatic victories there was a definite buzz at the garden, people started coming back to watch games and the boos turned to cheers, even some sporadic standing ovations here and there... shit they even did the wave a few times... the standing ovation at the end of the final homegame after a long, losing, less than mediocre season... why? because knick fans value heart and guts over talent any day and the brawl and the games after that showed that this team is capable of playing with heart and guts... they may not have won you over but they did win enough fans back to fill the garden with people standing and applauding a losing team... hey, you can't win them all... but give credit where credit is due...

Too many Fans just judge a players scoring ability. Alot of Fans dont know what Horry brings to the game to make his teams a champion.
That is why underratted Players like Finley who will give you numbers like 15-5-5 for eight straight seasons never get recognition by fans.

Kiyaman said:

Too many Fans just judge a players scoring ability. Alot of Fans dont know what Horry brings to the game to make his teams a champion.
That is why underratted Players like Finley who will give you numbers like 15-5-5 for eight straight seasons never get recognition by fans.

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shit, i got lost again... i wanted to go to a knicks forum and ended up in a spurs forum... just kidding kiyadude, don't be mad...

highesthigh said:

shit, i got lost again... i wanted to go to a knicks forum and ended up in a spurs forum... just kidding kiyadude, don't be mad...

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Being a homer all the time gets boring and is unoriginal. We're all fans here. People just have different opinions, respect that.

I'm a knick fan. but really doyou think our team was good last year?

Our team may have been a little more exciting, because they were in more games, just imagine the frenzy if we actually had a winning team!! We want the knicks to win, it's the definition of a fan.

jzero I didn't say that Lee will average 30 mpg. I said he did this year. its common sense he wont average as much that he did because of the arrival of Zach Randolph