Lost Credibility 'John Hollinger Projected Standings'

MSGKnickz33 said:

OK how does this make sense knicks 4lyfe, Metro said that steals dont mean everything and you comeback and say (while trying to son Metro) there is much more on defense then steals. He just said that son, that steals dont mean everything. You then listed stats trying to prove that wades a better defender than lebron. you proved hes better at getttin steals and blocking shots. Man to man defense is not all about statistics (blocks and steals). I'm not sure what you were trying to do.....i think you just dont like Metro son.

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I don't know, you figure it out. A smaller less athletic player who plays the toughest position to defend night in and out in the nba, has more blocks, AND equal in steals pg with a so called better defender in 58 less starts playing the tougher position to defend.

Wade can afford to stay on his man because he has help with Shaq, Haslem and Zo. He does not get cheap help blocks alone, he certainly blocks his own man's shot on defense. That is what you do. Guard your man, and help if needed. Wade's play AND numbers indicate he does this better than Lebron.

Look at their individual runs to the finals. Then ask who is the better defensive player. 26 blocks, 51 steals,23 PLAYOFF GAMES, while scoring the most for his team on the way to a title.

Most people who watch Lebron already concede he has much work to do defensively. Wade was a good defender out of college. It's really not even close. As the numbers help indicate. I said Wade was a better defensive player by far. He brought up you can't judge a player based on steals. I did not say exactly why I thought he was better. But the steals, Blocks and it being done in big games certainly has to help my side of the argument.

Plus, I do not personally know Metro to say I like him or not. I do not like, however, the way he tries to make his opinion fact, and that any differing opinion is flat out wrong. Then he always adds insults with his messages when replying to folks that do not agree with him. As if they dare to get out of pocket with the almighty mind of Metro. He all knowing and expert K.O. Journalist.

For instance... Isaiahsexuals? How gay is that to even coin such a term? Because some persons have their own mind and don't agree with Isaiah doing the worst job does means they are sexual for him? I do not know one Isaiah advocate that says he has done an excellent job. But he has done a pretty good job of getting good talent here. Especially based on the roster he had. Now is he the one to bring the team to the future? I hope so for his sake. No one wants to start building and give the credit to someone else. But if he does not win this year, he really has no excuse besides injuries if it happens. Does this make me sexual? Cuz I root for him?


Above all, he is a Knick fan who is strongly opinionated. Which anyone can deal with. But the second your opinions all start to become fact is when it rubs people the wrong way. Read the posts on this board... clearly I am not the only person who feels this way about this young man.

He could still have his opinion, but ease up is all.

Knicks4lyfe said:

I don't say this much to people, but you are a stupid boy.

There is much more to defense than steal. On ball defense, team defense, blocks to name some.

Funny Lebron is supposedly this great brick wall on defense, yet wack Jamal Crawford eats his food whenever he plays him. Everytime.

However, this is Wade vs Lebron. Imma have some fun.

Lebron, 6'8 250, and probably the most gifted pure athlete in sports.
Wade 6'4 216, and next to Iverson, carrying the biggest heart in his sport.


Wade's blocks per game for his career are higher ( saw him punch Kobe twice straight up in a game once ) He has more individual blocks than Lebron 236- 231 in 58 less career starts. Both had runs to the finals. In Wades run, he had 26 blocks in 23 games at 6'4. Add 51 steals to that as well. Brick wall defense Bron? He had 34 steals, and 10 blocks in his 20 game run to the finals in which his team was swept badly. Measure the fact that Wade is usually on the opposing teams best offensive player, while Hughes or Snow usually gets the tough assignments on Cleveland, clearly show how diff the coaching staffs of both teams view the defensive prowess of these two star player.

I watch a lot of NBA son. I also play a lot of chess. seems you like to play checkers....

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Thanks for the compliment.

I just said that. Apparently, you can't read.

Lebron James doesn't guard Crawford. Doesn't change the fact Lebron is an excellent defender, and Crawford is one of the worst.

What is "heart". Dwayne Wade's heart rate? Can you be original for once instead of coining terms from ESPN? Do you even think or have a pulse? Or is your gut instinct is to spew whatever Isiah tells you to say? Speak up for yourself, be confident. I don't like embarrassing you.

Lebron > Wade, its been generally accepted ever since the 2003 draft class.

btw, I play dominos.

MSGKnickz33 said:

OK how does this make sense knicks 4lyfe, Metro said that steals dont mean everything and you comeback and say (while trying to son Metro) there is much more on defense then steals. He just said that son, that steals dont mean everything. You then listed stats trying to prove that wades a better defender than lebron. you proved hes better at getttin steals and blocking shots. Man to man defense is not all about statistics (blocks and steals). I'm not sure what you were trying to do.....i think you just dont like Metro son.

As for the East projections, i dont see many BAD teams in the East. I think Atlanta will even be good this year because josh smith is a force on both ends of the court. The only team that i would put money on as being the worst team would be philly.

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Someone with the ability to read. Isiah4Lyfe obviously envies. Also Isiah4lyfe has a disability in spelling, this dude is a triple threat; unable to read, can't spell and enjoys watching Isiah hold his arms making funny faces on the sidelines.

Thanks for pointing out how really poor Isiah4 is at making a point. He goes in circles, gets frustrated and throws a trailmix of contradictory false statements.

I agree, Alanta will be an excellent team. People don't much about Williams, Horford, Smith, Johnson, and even Zaza. These guys are pretty solid defenders, with all around games. + no more Tyron Lue at PG, lol.

What this kid don't know; guys like Ben Wallace has a high number of steals and blocks, but isn't elite at man to man defense.

Raja Bell and Bruce Bowen are all NBA defenders, but don't block a lot nor get a high number of steals. What about Trenton Hassel or what about that annoying fuck Collins from the Nets? These guys alter shots and get up on their man. Lebron is building a reputation for this, he rather get the job done than pad the stats. Allen Iverson is a SHITTY man to man defender, Arroyo abuses everytime and Arroyo is a C level PG. We've seen Marbury play great defense for us this year, GREAT defense, even guarding SG's when he had to. Did he get a lot of stls or blks? No. Marbury focused on playing tight defense and not allowing the PG to penetrate to the paint because Curry was so useless defensively, and he did the best job he can do. Anyway, you get the point. No wait, I forget you can't read. Everyone who follows the NBA understands this. Don't get me wrong either, there are defenders who are great man to man defenders who average a lot of stls like Artest and Kobe(well, not 2, but its aight). But also understand Lebron is a superior player to Wade. How late have you been? The Wade Bandwagon has died ages ago when Shaq began to break down.

btw whats an Isaiahsexuals? I know you're an Isiahsexual.:thumbsup:

Wrong again:

I back up my opinion with facts.

You back up your opinion with contradictions and your Isiahsexuality. (As shown in this thread; so don't get upset)


comprende?

Peace.

lol...

No one can guard Shaq. Ben Wallace isn't that good defending man to man, I've seen him get manned in the paint; how ever Ben Wallace is one of the greatest help defenders of all time, he's always aware where the other guys are on one the court.

Stop guessing and start knowing. Most NBA fans have discussed and agreed Wallace isn't that good man to man, and gets overrated by his stats. (Once again my stls and blks theory proves correct). I rather have a guy consistently shut his man down or alters a missed shot than take a risk stealing or blocking.

Are you saying Lebron doesn't have good footwork now? LOL; you lost again.

Wade doesn't guard anyone; in the Eastern Conference finals he didn't guard Rip Hamilton cause he would get tired doing it and not have enough atp to provide on offense. Didn't our Jamal Crawford drop 52 points on Wade? Wade DOES NOT man to man on people, he's solid help defender, not a good man to man defender. This is where Lebron steps up.

You're damn right Lebron is better than Wade, Wade has missed a total of 64 games his first 4 seasons in the league, and it looks to be more of the same in '07-08. Wade is still rehabbing his injuries and will most likely miss the beginning of the season. Wade isn't top 5 no more.

Raja Bell is a superior defender compared to Wade, is this wasn't the chance, Raja Bell's ass would be playing in Puerto Rico chucking 3's. I'm guessing you just learned who Raja Bell is today, thanks to Google.com I'm disappointed that you don't follow up on the NBA that well.

Wrong, you're even more wrong that you try to put words in my mouth. The numbers don't mean EVERYTHING; I never said they don't mean anything. Notice how I could pick and rip every false statement you make with ease?

Balkman is an all around defender. You can't be a Knick fan to be disrespecting Balkman who starts so many fastbreak, and will guard anyone or the best player, not matter how small Balkman's frame is or how skinny he is. He was giving it to your boy Lebron hardbody; Balkman's man defense is insane, and he adds more with his help defense and his overall awareness on defense to start and lead fastbreaks. God bless Balkman, I'm a Knick fan who actually appreciates the players on this team who are capable of leading us to victories.

btw pendejo, you don't get "GIFTED". Lebron has the knowledge and awareness to stay fit, healthy and improve his ability. You don't become 6"8 250 athlete out of no where. Growing up, Lebron obviously ate the right amount of food, had the right hours sleep, and trained/exercise the max amount per week. To add to that, he trains HARD, and it shows when he plays. Genes play a factor, but not completely. So NO, he's not gifted, he worked and train extremely hard to get where he is. I'm guessing you're not very athletic or don't understand the systems under training or reaching an athletically fit level.

You're breaking the record for most false statements per post; props.

wow...

You don't read and understand that well for a know it all.

Ben gaurds 4's and 5's. Man to man vs any 4's and 5's he can gaurd em all and be a problem. While also helping out his teammates. He is one of the NBA'S ALL TIME BEST DEFENDERS! Get over yourself will ya?


Can you please provide a stat... or something that helps your theory except your opinion? All you keep saying is Lebron is a better defender because I say so pretty much. "Stats don't mean everything". If Lebron had more blocks you would have posted that in your favor. If he played better in his finals run, you would have posted that. He didn't, so you are left with " He is growing a reputation". You don't have anything but your opinion on this matter. No facts.

I did not disrespect Balkman. He is already a top 5 on the ball defender to me. Just said he defends while padding his defensive stats. His defense shows up in the stat sheet every night. He can do it, why can't Wade? Lemme guess... Because it's your opinion that he can't so that ends the discussion because you have the amazing ability to... "pick and rip every false statement you make with ease?"


I get it, false statements are statements made in disagreement with your opinion.

You are making the world a better place. Keep it up

Nothing you said contradict my points.

I observe games and see Lebron's defensive ability, his footwork, and his ability to alter shots.

God bless your soul if you think Wade is on Balkman's level on defense.

Not too long ago.

Riley chastises Wade for lousy defense

MSNBC News Services
Updated: 11:28 a.m. ET April 23, 2007

MIAMI - While Shaquille O'Neal is still stewing over the referees, Miami Heat coach Pat Riley isn't too happy with Dwyane Wade's defensive effort in the Game 1 defeat to the Chicago Bulls, the Miami Herald reported.

''I'm not going to give him a pass,'' Riley said, in reference to Wade's recently returning from a shoulder injury. "He did not do the job defensively that he had to do. And we just have to face that fact.''

Wade's defensive focus, Luol Deng, scored 33 points to lead the Bulls to a 96-91 victory.
Story continues below ↓advertisement

''Coach [Pat Riley] expects the world out of me,'' Wade told the Herald. "He expects more out of me than anybody probably ever expected.''

The Herald said that Riley put the 6-foot-4 Wade on the 6-8 Deng so that Wade would not have to chase around the faster Ben Gordon.

The strategy didn't pay off. Deng made 14 of 22 field-goal attempts and utilized his size advantage to dissect Wade's defense.

''I think because he didn't have a good playoff series last year, he's trying to be more aggressive this year,'' Wade told the Herald. "You just try to be more aware of his aggressiveness.''

Said Riley, ''Regardless of the condition you're in, you're going to have to guard somebody. Now, it's all about stepping up and taking pride at both ends of the court. Hinrich, Deng and Gordon -- they have to be shut down. They've got to be contained, and [Wade] is one of the guys who has to do that.''

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Obviously this article proves everything. Riley didn't want Wade guarding the best scorer on the opposing the team. If Wade is so great defensively, why does he always guard the 2nd option? This isn't the first time too, Riley didn't want Wade guarding Hamilton because he knew Wade couldn't hold Hamilton down defensively. When a coach doesn't have confidence in that play to defend the best offensive player(usually the best perimeter defender guards the best perimeter scorer, same for post defender on post scorer), it means Wade's ability to be a shut down perimeter defender is unknown and unproven. Wade isn't on a Balkman, Artest, Kobe, Bell, Bowen or even Lebron level. Riley put Wade on Deng and Wade got destroyed. Miami sucks and Wade is overrated. He's never leading Miami no where without Shaq; what makes you think if Kobe can't, Wade can?

metrocard said:

Nothing you said contradict my points.

I observe games and see Lebron's defensive ability, his footwork, and his ability to alter shots.

God bless your soul if you think Wade is on Balkman's level on defense.

Not too long ago.


Obviously this article proves everything. Riley didn't want Wade guarding the best scorer on the opposing the team. If Wade is so great defensively, why does he always guard the 2nd option? This isn't the first time too, Riley didn't want Wade guarding Hamilton because he knew Wade couldn't hold Hamilton down defensively. When a coach doesn't have confidence in that play to defend the best offensive player(usually the best perimeter defender guards the best perimeter scorer, same for post defender on post scorer), it means Wade's ability to be a shut down perimeter defender is unknown and unproven. Wade isn't on a Balkman, Artest, Kobe, Bell, Bowen or even Lebron level. Riley put Wade on Deng and Wade got destroyed. Miami sucks and Wade is overrated. He's never leading Miami no where without Shaq; what makes you think if Kobe can't, Wade can?

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Metro, come on. Even you can't be that silly. He had not played almost all season, coming off injury. Riley may not have wanted to use it as an excuse, but clearly, he was not going to be the Wade we saw the season before.

And let's not act like Deng is a walk in the park here lol.

I would not put my #1 scoring option on players who run through a million screens , banging all those bodies off shoulder surgery. Smarter to play him on a more stationary scorer to preserve some of his energy on the other end as well.

And he chastised him for ONE GAME. Not poor play in general Wade is a very good defender. In more ways than one.

Wade actually played over 50 games. He wasn't injured for most of the season or "hadn't played almost all season". Be correct next time.

The Wade the season before couldn't guard Rip, Ginobili and many other SG in the playoffs. Wade is a good help defender, yes. But one on one, he gets burned a lot.

Wade is a scoring option, right; but he wasn't even the best perimeter defender in Miami, that was Posey. Artest and Kobe score alot, but yet provide the best defense at their positions. This is why I and other NBA followers value Lebron so much, he gives a lot of performance offensively and defensively.

Like I said, watch some more NBA games this season(if not the previous seasons to back up my argument); then you will look back on your post and d'oh!

RE: bron/wade.... there is no stat you can throw out to accurately measure defense unless you watch every steal and block. i agree lebron is a better defender even though stats may not reflect that. hughes is overrated as a defender and a lot of his steals are playing passing lanes. snow is more than a step slow now so whoever said snow and hughes cover the top player is bullshitting.

secondly, isnt raja from the virgin islands not PR?

Wow knicks4lyfe got destroyed in every part of that arguement. Never once did he appear to be more intelligent then metrocard. Knicks4lyfe, you just got bodied. theres actually a website called knicks4life.com, you should join there forum. If what just happened to you happened to me I would be embarrassed to ever say anything on this forum again. Great job Metro, you now the father of knicks4lyfe.

metrocard said:

Wade actually played over 50 games. He wasn't injured for most of the season or "hadn't played almost all season". Be correct next time.

The Wade the season before couldn't guard Rip, Ginobili and many other SG in the playoffs. Wade is a good help defender, yes. But one on one, he gets burned a lot.

Wade is a scoring option, right; but he wasn't even the best perimeter defender in Miami, that was Posey. Artest and Kobe score alot, but yet provide the best defense at their positions. This is why I and other NBA followers value Lebron so much, he gives a lot of performance offensively and defensively.

Like I said, watch some more NBA games this season(if not the previous seasons to back up my argument); then you will look back on your post and d'oh!

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Did I say he was the best perimeter player in Miami? Or did I say, and post stats that say he is a better defender than Lebron James.

Your argument has come down to stats don't mean everything. Just say that. Say stats don't mean everything and I think Lebron is a better defender.

The numbers I posted at best say that Wade is at the very least more active and makes more plays defensively. There can be no arguing that. Look at the numbers.

You're saying he could not guard this player or that player, and you are naming pretty good offensive players. Last I checked, good players score on good players.


Game in and out, the numbers say that Bron is inferior. And it's not popular belief he is good defender.

But Im done on this. you don't have any facts.

MSGKnickz33 said:

Wow knicks4lyfe got destroyed in every part of that arguement. Never once did he appear to be more intelligent then metrocard. Knicks4lyfe, you just got bodied. theres actually a website called knicks4life.com, you should join there forum. If what just happened to you happened to me I would be embarrassed to ever say anything on this forum again. Great job Metro, you now the father of knicks4lyfe.

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You are officially... A Metrosexual. Great Job.

Knicks4lyfe said:

Did I say he was the best perimeter player in Miami? Or did I say, and post stats that say he is a better defender than Lebron James.

You're saying he could not guard this player or that player, and you are naming pretty good offensive players. Last I checked, good players score on good players.


Game in and out, the numbers say that Bron is inferior. And it's not popular belief he is good defender.

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You don't know what you're saying, and thats the problem.

Not all the time, don't you watch the Knicks? Marbury made Ray Allen his bitch. Crawford who's an okay streaky scorer/shooter made Wade his bitch also. This is why I question your status as a Knick fan and throw you in the pitof Isiahsexuals.

Says who, pendejo?

Like I said, watch more games; stop relying on stats(that you Google for and don't even memorize) to tell the whole story for you. Kurt Thomas wasn't a shot blocker nor a superior athlete, but he remains to be one of the best defensive big men in the NBA because of his footwork and man to man defense, especially post defense. I've been throwing out EXAMPLES from watching the NBA at you for you to understand, but I see you don't see these guys play. So whats the point? You're predominantly an Isiahsexual who can't see the light.


MSGKnickz33, lol you beasted.

metrocard said:

You don't know what you're saying, and thats the problem.

Not all the time, don't you watch the Knicks? Marbury made Ray Allen his bitch. Crawford who's an okay streaky scorer/shooter made Wade his bitch also. This is why I question your status as a Knick fan and throw you in the pitof Isiahsexuals.

Says who, pendejo?

Like I said, watch more games; stop relying on stats(that you Google for and don't even memorize) to tell the whole story for you. Kurt Thomas wasn't a shot blocker nor a superior athlete, but he remains to be one of the best defensive big men in the NBA because of his footwork and man to man defense, especially post defense. I've been throwing out EXAMPLES from watching the NBA at you for you to understand, but I see you don't see these guys play. So whats the point? You're predominantly an Isiahsexual who can't see the light.


MSGKnickz33, lol you beasted.

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I do know exactly what Im saying. And that is Wade is a better defender than Lebron.



And that is who we are talking about. WADE VS LEBRON. Stay with me. Not Thomas, not Bell, Not Bowen.

I know you can be a great defender without piling huge stats. BUT LEBRON IS NOT THAT lol.... All you keep giving me is other people for examples. And what's hilarious is, if you had the stats in your favor, you would have posted them long ago. Wade does not play D, but somehow he is piling up these stats vs someone, in over a half a season less than your boy. Lebron plays D, but it just never shows up on the stat sheet. At least as Much as Wade's does on his team. K.

At best, like I been saying, all you have is what you usually do. You're opinion. Popular consensus is Lebron needs a lot of work defensively. Die hard Cavs fans will tell you this. And the stats lol. Which I have been happy to provide, but not remember ( what the heck is that about anyways? ) lol.

Let me help you out mr Facts lol. What you are left with is this... last time.
o?pin?ion (ə-pĭn'yən)
n. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: ?The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion?

The stats I posted help my argument more than yours in this case because stats are...fact (făkt)
n.

1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.

The facts say at the very least that Wade is a bigger play maker on defense by far than Lebron, and his on ball defense is pretty good as well. Lebron is avg on that end. The Numbers say so, and so does his effort when you're watching.

I'd be willing to agree more to the numbers don't mean everything theory, if Wade was not spanking him so much in the def area's ( in many less games too ugh )

Now, your serve. Looking for the next few spanish curse words that show your blatant affection for me.

But I'll have you know, I'm not like msgknicks. I'm married, and cannot love you back the way he does. Treat him right, he'll stick it out

lebron could be a great defender when he wants too but he slacks off alot of defense, at this point wade is better but lebron has the abilities to be way better on then wade on defense

datruth said:

lebron could be a great defender when he wants too but he slacks off alot of defense, at this point wade is better but lebron has the abilities to be way better on then wade on defense

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Maybe you don't watch basketball either.

Knicks4lyfe said:

Maybe you don't watch basketball either.

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smh man please, lebron shows signs of greatness on defense, comes up wit huge blocks, he just gives up after a pic, in time he will learn, and wade isnt that much better than lebron on defense, wade gambles an awful lot on defense, his one on one defense isnt good, its average, ask jamal, lol

datruth said:

smh man please, lebron shows signs of greatness on defense, comes up wit huge blocks, he just gives up after a pic, in time he will learn, and wade isnt that much better than lebron on defense, wade gambles an awful lot on defense, his one on one defense isnt good, its average, ask jamal, lol

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I happen to agree with you lol. Thought you were following the thread where he said I don't know basketball because I, like you can see Lebron does not play D.

What he can be, and what he is are two opposite spectrum's. Wade is simply a better defender right now.

Jamal did eat him up, but he would have ate up whoever that night. But it's not like JC is a herb. As long as he continues to forget he ever tried to master the fade away three, and uses one of the league's best handles to create for himself and others, he'll be a very good player. He can score on anyone.

No, "lyfe", you don't know what you're saying. You can barely spell a word correctly. Listen man; I used Bowen, Thomas and Bell as examples to put more power into what I'm saying. I see you're almost getting the message, even if I'm force feeding it to you like how Isiah force feed Curry minutes.

Understand, comprehend and learn from me, these guys do not average a lot of blocks and steals. So according to your theory that backs up Wade, are they bad defenders because they don't avg many blks and stls? Its a simple yes or no or shut the fuck up question, thank you.

Lebron is actually a pretty good man to man defender, is he elite at his position at holding SF's at the lowest ppg in the NBA, I don't care WHO it is Lebron is doing his job and is one of the biggest factors why Cleveland has one of the best defenses in the NBA. I guess you have to watch more NBA games or just give up watching basketball.

You're married to Isiah? Thats cute, but I didn't want to know that right off the books.

Peace.

donchris said:

John Hollinger rangs the Hawks 4 spots above the Knicks. According to Hollinger, the Hawks will have a 42-40 record and the Knicks only a 38-44.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=HollingerForecastIndex0708

I know I'm a Knicks fan but how credible is this analysis? Am I over reacting by saying Hollinger is a duh duh duhhh!

1. Chicago Bulls 55-27 1st in Central

2. Cleveland Cavaliers 54-28 2nd in Central

3. Boston Celtics 51-31 1st in Atlantic

4. Orlando Magic 49-33 1st in Southeast

5. Detroit Pistons 48-34 3rd in Central

6. Miami Heat 43-39 2nd in Southeast

7. Atlanta Hawks 42-40 3rd in Southeast

8. Charlotte Bobcats 40-42 4th in Southeast

T-9. New Jersey Nets 39-43 T-2nd in Atlantic

T-9. Toronto Raptors 39-43 T-2nd in Atlantic

11. New York Knicks 38-44 4th in Atlantic

12. Milwaukee Bucks 35-47 4th in Central

13. Washington Wizards 33-49 5th in Southeast

14. Indiana Pacers 28-54 5th in Central

15. Philadelphia 76ers 21-61 5th in Atlantic

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Hawks are pretty good right now.

lol @ people in here who thought Heat would be good.