Blow it the F*CK up! Official Trade Thread

paris401

Starter
i don't think artest can play with this group... the homicide rate in ny would soar probably after only one game... he def gets rid of curry,zach,jefferies,crawford (unless he was having a good shooting nite) ... thank god our other big man would be saved ... jerome would be having his way...
 

jzero29

Rotation player
No one could run this team

You could trade jerome james for steve nash and this team would still suck. Nash is one player and the other players have bought into Isiahs preaching that they are good players and believe they can do no wrong and it's is not their individual fault they are losing, it's the other guy. Not even delusional curry saying "i guess I'm not a starter on this team?" He should be saying I haven't performed well, I need to get back to playing well work hard and prove i belong in starting line-up. Do you think benching marbury has had any effect, no he still thinks he has nothing to do with the losing, same goes for randolph. These guys don't say, we lose because i had to many turnovers, or I forgot to box out, I didn't play Defense. It's each player saying I'm good, the other guys suck. This team will never win.
 

knicklover

Benchwarmer
Every single player on this team is one dimensional. The only possible exceptions are Morris and Chandler. I only give them some credit because we don't know their games well enough yet.

Marbury has the talent to be a good all around player, but he's mentally not fit to be a PG or a team leader. He's a constant "team chemistry" distraction on and off the court and his game goes down 1 or 2 notches at crunch time (which is a disaster).

Curry can't rebound, block shots or play defense.

Randolph can't block shots, is slow on defense, takes too many bad shots and isn't tream oriented enough.

Crawford can't shoot well enough to be a SG, is way too inconsistent, and can't play defense.

QRich can't shoot at all - which is pathetic for a SF on a team that needs outside shooting from that position.

Lee is the closest thing we have to a good player, but he needs a mid range jumper. As it is now, the defense knows it can lay off him, focus on the post, and swat his shots away when he gets the ball in close.

Balkman shoots even worse than Q Rich.

Robinson is too small to play defense on many opponents and can't shoot well enough from outside even though he's more than willing to shoot no matter what his night is going like (TOO WILLING).

Jared Jeffries can't shoot at all.

Mardy Collins can't shoot at all.

Fred Jones is shooting OK this year, but he's also a low % shooter and only a moderate talent.

Malik Rose is a moderate talent in all areas.

James is a fat slop.

When I look at this roster, I can't escape the fact that Isiah is NOT EVEN A GOOD JUDGE OF TALENT. He hasn't really found any jewels with our draft picks, let alone with trades. He picked up a bunch of one dimensonal players that other teams were actually wise to pass on or trade to us.

Some of these guys are very talented at what they do well (whether it be defense, rebound, scoring inside, athleticism, high energy etc...). You might even be able to win a championship with one or two of them getting a lot of minutes. But you would need some real stars along side of them to overcome their glaring weaknesses.

The more I see this team, the more I think it's the worst team in the NBA (or certainly close). It's not a matter of chemistry, injuries (last year's excuse), or turmoil because of all the off the court problems. The few young players we have that showed some promise in last year are no better this year and are therefore still wildly flawed! Our players suck - plain and simple! That's why we keep losing!
 
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metrocard

Legend
Marbury is NOT a player that you can use to run your team period! He, like every other player on this team, is a very selfish player who lacks vision (2 very bad components for a point guard). I believe Curry is being affected by Randolph so his numbers dropped. The reality with Curry is that he is an offensive player and NOT a a big man who is going to bang down low. Isiah did a poor job getting a complimentary player to flank him. I would see if Chicago would be interested in taking him back! He seems to be the exact player they are looking for to partner with Wallace; see if we could get back Noccioni for him. Then I would try to get a salvageable big man for the middle. I like Dan Gadzuric from the bucks or Jeff Foster from Indiana; see what the 76s would want for Dalembert. With Randolph now being the focal big man down low, you just need a blue collar type guy to grab a rebound and cover their man. I wasn't a 100% sold on Artest coming here but at this point, he might be a welcomed addition to the team. As long as he could stay focused he could be what they are looking for. He is intense when he plays and that is something that this squad seems to lack.

How has been Marbury been "selfish" when he gave up his scoring for Crawford's and Curry's shot attempts?

How does Marbury average 8 assist for his whole career with no court version?


Mystery questions that will never be answered.
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
How has been Marbury been "selfish" when he gave up his scoring for Crawford's and Curry's shot attempts?

How does Marbury average 8 assist for his whole career with no court version?


Mystery questions that will never be answered.

The great mystery with Marbury is that very stat! He averages 8 assists for his career but yet every squad he has QB'd becomes a very stagnant offense. While Marbury does manage to get assist numbers he doesn't seem to lift his team or create and maintain a fluidity that other elite pg's seem to do (like Kidd, Nash). It is a mystery because he is very talented but after watching Marbury since his college years it has become very clear that he is a 1 dimensional player and that does not make for a very useful pg! Yes, he has taken a backseat to Crawford in the scoring part, but look at his game now! Kidd or Nash could go a whole game with out scoring a point but add so much value in with their court vision and passing skills while Marbury just stops scoring but doesn't do anything else to add value. Yes, he will toss the ball to Crawford and get the assist, but does he move the game along and dictate the pace? From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In basketball, an assist is attributed to a player who passes the ball to a teammate in a way that leads to a score by field goal, meaning that he or she was "assisting" in the basket. This person is known as the "assistor." According to the Official 2004 NCAA Basketball Statistics Rules, an assist has to be "a major part of the play," which either finds the player already with a "positional advantage," or helps him or her get one. There is thus some judgment involved in deciding whether a passer should be credited with an assist. An assist can be scored for the passer even if the player who receives the pass makes a basket after dribbling the ball. However, the original definition of an assist did not include such situations,[1] so the comparison of assist statistics across eras is a complex matter. Only the pass directly before the score may be counted as an assist, so no more than one assist can be recorded per field goal (unlike other sports, such as ice hockey.) A pass that leads to a shooting foul and scoring by free throws does not count as an assist. A player can get him or herself into position to receive an assist in a variety of ways. The main way is to come off a screen, which, if executed properly, will leave the player open for a pass, and in a position to easily score. Other times the defense will double team an offensive player, leaving someone else open. (It is the passer, not the player receiving the pass, who "receives" the credit for making an assist.) Averaging a large number of assists doesn't always mean that the player is good at passing. If a player was to handle the ball most of the time, he/she would eventually pass it. If his teammate scores, then he/she gets an assist. I included this to prove a point that just because a player gets an assist on a play doesn't mean that the "assitor" did the work to create the basket. Kidd and Nash by virtue of their abilities can create a scenario that makes it easier for the scorer to make the basket while Marbury, mostly just passes the ball to an a teammate that scores. Not all assists are the same! Yes numbers are numbers and Marbury does tote them but I and most people who are familiar with Marbury, feel his numbers are empty! His track record has proven that. For his entire career he has not been on a wining team. He has been surrounded by plenty of talent but has done nothing with it!
 

metrocard

Legend
The great mystery with Marbury is that very stat! He averages 8 assists for his career but yet every squad he has QB'd becomes a very stagnant offense. While Marbury does manage to get assist numbers he doesn't seem to lift his team or create and maintain a fluidity that other elite pg's seem to do (like Kidd, Nash). It is a mystery because he is very talented but after watching Marbury since his college years it has become very clear that he is a 1 dimensional player and that does not make for a very useful pg! Yes, he has taken a backseat to Crawford in the scoring part, but look at his game now! Kidd or Nash could go a whole game with out scoring a point but add so much value in with their court vision and passing skills while Marbury just stops scoring but doesn't do anything else to add value. Yes, he will toss the ball to Crawford and get the assist, but does he move the game along and dictate the pace? From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In basketball, an assist is attributed to a player who passes the ball to a teammate in a way that leads to a score by field goal, meaning that he or she was "assisting" in the basket. This person is known as the "assistor." According to the Official 2004 NCAA Basketball Statistics Rules, an assist has to be "a major part of the play," which either finds the player already with a "positional advantage," or helps him or her get one. There is thus some judgment involved in deciding whether a passer should be credited with an assist. An assist can be scored for the passer even if the player who receives the pass makes a basket after dribbling the ball. However, the original definition of an assist did not include such situations,[1] so the comparison of assist statistics across eras is a complex matter. Only the pass directly before the score may be counted as an assist, so no more than one assist can be recorded per field goal (unlike other sports, such as ice hockey.) A pass that leads to a shooting foul and scoring by free throws does not count as an assist. A player can get him or herself into position to receive an assist in a variety of ways. The main way is to come off a screen, which, if executed properly, will leave the player open for a pass, and in a position to easily score. Other times the defense will double team an offensive player, leaving someone else open. (It is the passer, not the player receiving the pass, who "receives" the credit for making an assist.) Averaging a large number of assists doesn't always mean that the player is good at passing. If a player was to handle the ball most of the time, he/she would eventually pass it. If his teammate scores, then he/she gets an assist. I included this to prove a point that just because a player gets an assist on a play doesn't mean that the "assitor" did the work to create the basket. Kidd and Nash by virtue of their abilities can create a scenario that makes it easier for the scorer to make the basket while Marbury, mostly just passes the ball to an a teammate that scores. Not all assists are the same! Yes numbers are numbers and Marbury does tote them but I and most people who are familiar with Marbury, feel his numbers are empty! His track record has proven that. For his entire career he has not been on a wining team. He has been surrounded by plenty of talent but has done nothing with it!


Damn you dropped mad knowledge, let me at least breathe homie...I knew I had to come prepared to debate against you.

Marbury's first real season with the Nets, they averaged 98 ppg(especially at that time defense was played more frequent), thats not bad at all considering the only real scoring threats Nets had were Marbury and Keith Van Horn.

Going into 2000, things kinda blew up when Nets management(kinda like the Knicks) didn't build around Marbury properly, players couldn't stay healthy and they began to stink.

Marbury's first season in Phoneix(01-02 season), they ranked 17th in the NBA in PPG...thats pretty "average" to me, more than stagnant.

Then in 02-03, Phoneix was improved to 13th in the NBA in PPG led by Marbury.

In 03'-04, Phoneix improved to 94 ppg with Marbury, almost top 10 in the NBA

When Marbury was traded to the Knicks...we looked awesome, we finally had a player maker and a creator who can penetrate.

Marbury did run the offense and the team averaged 97 ppg in 04-05 I believe...thats not bad right?

The point is, Marbury is very capable of running a good offense. Not a Steve Nash offense, but a good one.

Nets offense look like shit, , should Kidd get the blame or should Nets management get the blame for not giving him the right pieces and the right coach?

Marbury doesn't have the coach or the players to be effective.

The reason why our offense is so stagnant is because of Eddy Curry takes a lot of time to get in position and is a predictable player like how Eli is a predictable QB and always get picked. This leads to alot of turnovers, more possessions for the other team. Chicago was a terrible team when they ran their offense through Eddy Curry, they were so bad, they were like FUCK IT...lets just be a jump shooting team, we'll at least WIN games...fuck a post game.

Still, 8 assist a game is extremely impressive. Marbury averaged 9 assist when he first came here. I don't see how you can say he has no "vision", atleast agree he has an adequate amount of vision, but I'll agree with you that he doesn't have Kidd or Nash vision.
 

knicklover

Benchwarmer
I think homeaterguy hit the nail on the head.

If you play PG and pass to "anyone" on the team and they score, you get an assist. However, that doesn't tell you anything about whether it was the PG that actually 'created the play".

Positive contributions from the PG are things like this:

1. Drawing a double team when he drives and finding the open man for a wide open look.

2. Running a fast break, putting on a great fake to one wing, and finding the other for a layup instead of contested shot.

3. Making a spectacular pass to find a man that's open for a split second.

4. Knowing his team mates strengths, weaknesses, preferences etc....

Marbury is not terrible and would get even more assists if he had better shooters around him, but he doesn't "ADD" a lot of value at that position.

He drives and gets fouled instead of making the great pass. He dribbles outside too much etc...

On a related note, the problem with the team being stagnant is not totally Curry's fault. I keep saying that. It's obvious. But no one is paying attention. When a team's outside shooters can't hit the ocean, it's pretty easy to defend guys that score from the inside like Curry. It's also easier to CAUSE turnovers when you can double and triple team him every time he gets the ball because there are no outside threats.
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
Metro, it is always fun to banter with you and we usually are on the same page (I say 98% of the time) and that is great in a forum that is driven purely by opinion. I was happy when Marbury came to the Knicks because I felt it was a tremendous upgrade in the back court from what we had. You know Marbury is know as a coach killer in the NBA and that is a fact! Case in point: When he came to NY he really started to groove with KVH. For some reason, KVH and Marbury are almost tailor made for each other. They gelled in NJ and they gelled in NY. Like his attitude in NJ and Minnesota he wasn't happy having equal to slightly lesser exposure and shots. He wanted out of Minnesota because he didn't want to be second to Garnett and he had KVH ousted from both NJ and NY. He complained out Brown as a coach because Brown didn't want him to be the # 1 or 2 offensive option. Now he doesn't get along with the 1 guy that fought for him, Isiah and wants out of NY. This is Marbury's MO and it is tiresome at this point. Is he talented? Yes, more than many NBA players. He has tremendous talent, unfortunately he is a 6' 2" shooting guard who only cares about himself when he walks onto the court. Jordan was a selfish player but he also lifted his team. Marbury wants what he wants and if he doesn't get it then he lobbies to have your fired or to be traded. So I would rather have a pg that averages 4 assists a game if he plays D, spreads the ball around and can come up with some key assists anytime.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
Marbury cant pass as good as Kidd and Nash but who can? Hes still one of the better passers in the league and he has alot more scoring ability then both of them, even Nash admitted he cant take Marbury 1 on 1.

The 04-05 season is the only year where Marbury proved himself. If Isiah had made smarter trades and less trades we would not be having this discussion right now. I have no proof of this but I strongly believe if Marbury had stayed one more year with Garnett or one more year with Pheonix, things would have been different. Theres no question in my mind he would have finally made it past the 1st round in the playoffs.

I cant deny that he was surrounded with talent when in Pheonix and now in New York. Im going to start off with Minnesota, he had KG with him. One more year with Garnett and its hard to argue that they would not have been a 2nd round team.

To say he was surrounded with alot of talent in New Jersey is false. Kenyon Martin was a rookie when Marbury played there and they didnt draft Richard Jefferson until the following year when Marbury was traded. Keith Van Horn was the 2nd best player on this Nets team. After that Kerry Kittles and Kendall Gill were the 3rd and 4th best players. Its impressive that Marbury averaged 8 assists per game playing with these guys.

Next stop was in Pheonix. Amare Stoudamire was a rookie when Marbury played there. Steve Nash has done a great job with Phoenix, Ill give him alot of credit. I dont think Marbury couldve done as good of a job but I think the Phoenix Suns would have still been one of the powerhouses out west with Marbury.

I dont think Marbury ever looked bad until Larry Brown coached him. If he had stayed with some of his old teams for a longer period of time he would have had more success. The only knock that I accept on Marbury is that hes not vocal and he doesnt try to fire his team up. Marbury may not be the definition of a point guard but he is a point guard and one of the better ones. No disrespect home theater guy but when you said Marbury is a one dimensional point guard that doesnt make sense to me. Marbury scores, passes, and defends. Thats 3 dimensions and stats prove this. I know you have your theory about assist and I agree, Kidd and Nash are better passers then Marbury. Marbury is still a good enough passer to lead a team deep in the playoffs with the right group of players around him and those 04-05 knicks were not far away from being a much better team.

Im not sure why Marbury is even being criticized here. There are several other players on this team that define one dimensional. I think that Marbury is a target because of his contract.

EArly in Marburys career his only problem was that he kept gettin traded. Bythe way, that whole "every team he played on got better after he left" bullshit pisses me off. Did Minnesota get better? I already talked about the Nets and Suns.

Idiots like Isiah and Larry Brown have made Marbury look bad. When you want to point the finger at sum1, it should be pointed at Isiah for making this "currys team." Or at Larry Brown for making Marbury a shooting guard, he aint no 2-guard hes a F*ckin point guard and one of the 10 best. Marburys got all the skill, but hes got bad luck.
 

metrocard

Legend
Marbury cant pass as good as Kidd and Nash but who can? Hes still one of the better passers in the league and he has alot more scoring ability then both of them, even Nash admitted he cant take Marbury 1 on 1.

The 04-05 season is the only year where Marbury proved himself. If Isiah had made smarter trades and less trades we would not be having this discussion right now. I have no proof of this but I strongly believe if Marbury had stayed one more year with Garnett or one more year with Pheonix, things would have been different. Theres no question in my mind he would have finally made it past the 1st round in the playoffs.

I cant deny that he was surrounded with talent when in Pheonix and now in New York. Im going to start off with Minnesota, he had KG with him. One more year with Garnett and its hard to argue that they would not have been a 2nd round team.

To say he was surrounded with alot of talent in New Jersey is false. Kenyon Martin was a rookie when Marbury played there and they didnt draft Richard Jefferson until the following year when Marbury was traded. Keith Van Horn was the 2nd best player on this Nets team. After that Kerry Kittles and Kendall Gill were the 3rd and 4th best players. Its impressive that Marbury averaged 8 assists per game playing with these guys.

Next stop was in Pheonix. Amare Stoudamire was a rookie when Marbury played there. Steve Nash has done a great job with Phoenix, Ill give him alot of credit. I dont think Marbury couldve done as good of a job but I think the Phoenix Suns would have still been one of the powerhouses out west with Marbury.

I dont think Marbury ever looked bad until Larry Brown coached him. If he had stayed with some of his old teams for a longer period of time he would have had more success. The only knock that I accept on Marbury is that hes not vocal and he doesnt try to fire his team up. Marbury may not be the definition of a point guard but he is a point guard and one of the better ones. No disrespect home theater guy but when you said Marbury is a one dimensional point guard that doesnt make sense to me. Marbury scores, passes, and defends. Thats 3 dimensions and stats prove this. I know you have your theory about assist and I agree, Kidd and Nash are better passers then Marbury. Marbury is still a good enough passer to lead a team deep in the playoffs with the right group of players around him and those 04-05 knicks were not far away from being a much better team.

Im not sure why Marbury is even being criticized here. There are several other players on this team that define one dimensional. I think that Marbury is a target because of his contract.

EArly in Marburys career his only problem was that he kept gettin traded. Bythe way, that whole "every team he played on got better after he left" bullshit pisses me off. Did Minnesota get better? I already talked about the Nets and Suns.

Idiots like Isiah and Larry Brown have made Marbury look bad. When you want to point the finger at sum1, it should be pointed at Isiah for making this "currys team." Or at Larry Brown for making Marbury a shooting guard, he aint no 2-guard hes a F*ckin point guard and one of the 10 best. Marburys got all the skill, but hes got bad luck.


Exactly...its Curry's team. He's been selfish for not being professional, staying and shape and taking responsibility for leading this team.


I think homeaterguy hit the nail on the head.

If you play PG and pass to "anyone" on the team and they score, you get an assist. However, that doesn't tell you anything about whether it was the PG that actually 'created the play".

Positive contributions from the PG are things like this:

1. Drawing a double team when he drives and finding the open man for a wide open look.

2. Running a fast break, putting on a great fake to one wing, and finding the other for a layup instead of contested shot.

3. Making a spectacular pass to find a man that's open for a split second.

4. Knowing his team mates strengths, weaknesses, preferences etc....

Marbury is not terrible and would get even more assists if he had better shooters around him, but he doesn't "ADD" a lot of value at that position.

He drives and gets fouled instead of making the great pass. He dribbles outside too much etc...

On a related note, the problem with the team being stagnant is not totally Curry's fault. I keep saying that. It's obvious. But no one is paying attention. When a team's outside shooters can't hit the ocean, it's pretty easy to defend guys that score from the inside like Curry. It's also easier to CAUSE turnovers when you can double and triple team him every time he gets the ball because there are no outside threats.

Do you watch the Knicks at all? Marbury found Curry 3 times with SPECTACULAR passes in one game. Marbury does most of these things you listed.

Marbury has handed this team to Curry and Crawford, calling him selfish is IGNORANT..and a statement with no base of truth.

Its Curry's fault because he's not passing it to open guys on double teams and when he does pass, our perimeter guys force the shot because Curry has terrible timing offensively. This is his team, remember?

Marbury left Minnesota because it was far away from home, not KG.

I don't know know any shooting guard's who average 8 assist for their career. Who ever they are, they must be pretty good.

Like I said, its not like Marbury is averaging 5 assist a game off bullshit, when he's on his game, he can give you 8-9 and create a lot of openings for his teammates.

STOP TRYING TO TAKE CREDIT AWAY FROM MARBURY'S NUMBERS AND ABILITY. lol @ this theory of "lucky assist", lets see you guys step on the court and average 8 assist for your career, you make it sound so EASY when majority of the men in the NBA have never done this. To be consistent through your career and be one of the league's assist man kills any bias argument that Marbury is "selfish" and "has no vision.

Marbury has been playing solid this d, and was playing great defense last season.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
Exactly...its Curry's team. He's been selfish for not being professional, staying and shape and taking responsibility for leading this team.




Do you watch the Knicks at all? Marbury found Curry 3 times with SPECTACULAR passes in one game. Marbury does most of these things you listed.

Marbury has handed this team to Curry and Crawford, calling him selfish is IGNORANT..and a statement with no base of truth.

Its Curry's fault because he's not passing it to open guys on double teams and when he does pass, our perimeter guys force the shot because Curry has terrible timing offensively. This is his team, remember?

Marbury left Minnesota because it was far away from home, not KG.

I don't know know any shooting guard's who average 8 assist for their career. Who ever they are, they must be pretty good.

Like I said, its not like Marbury is averaging 5 assist a game off bullshit, when he's on his game, he can give you 8-9 and create a lot of openings for his teammates.

STOP TRYING TO TAKE CREDIT AWAY FROM MARBURY'S NUMBERS AND ABILITY. lol @ this theory of "lucky assist", lets see you guys step on the court and average 8 assist for your career, you make it sound so EASY when majority of the men in the NBA have never done this. To be consistent through your career and be one of the league's assist man kills any bias argument that Marbury is "selfish" and "has no vision.

Marbury has been playing solid this d, and was playing great defense last season.

Great Post, Marbury is the man and whoever disagrees have to hear it from you and me the assistant, the rza, whatever you or they wanna call me its all good. Fact is they can kill me and I'll still be in my grave defending Marbury, he went from being overrated (I'll admit it) to being criminally underrated like AZ. Some haters are willing to admit that hes still got allota skill and I respect them more then the ones who say hes washed up cuz thats just ignorance with a capital I. I got your back Metro with these Marbury Haters, F*ck em all!!!!
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
Marbury is definitely top 10 PG in the NBA, but let's stop right there and evaluate the things that actually define a good PG.

Marbury is great at putting pressure on the opposing teams defense and drawing fouls.
Marbury is in my opinion a clutch player if you need quick points at the end of games.
Marbury has great quickness and strength.

Marbury doesn't neccisarily make his teamates better or run many plays during games. I watch every Knicks game and I do see him make a strong effort to create plays for his teammates, but its sporadic. Marbury has the ability to do this consistently every game, but until he has full confidence in his teammates it just won't happen.

Marbury is a scorer first and pg second. Its really unfair to compare him to top point guards in the league because he's basically a SG trapped in a PG body. My biggest knock on Marbury is that he is incapable of consistently scoring when needed and being a playmaker at the same time. He's either going to score 25-30 points or have 8-9 assists, but not both.

This post is not to trash him, I just want to make it clear that I'm a fan of Marbury and just wish he was more consistent.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
Marbury just needs to be Marbury, shooting guards dont average 8 assists a game. Marbury needs to go back to his roots and do what he did before Larry Clown coached this team and convinced everyone that Marbury is not a point guard. You cant try to coach Marbury, you gotta let him be himself and give him freedom.

How is Marbury suppose to make his teammates better? Steve Nash and Jason Kidd would retire trying to make this group of players better. When your starting 2guard and smallforward cant hit a shot, what do you expect?

I look at Marbury as a point guard. If anyone is a shooting guard in a point guards body that would be the overrated Tony Parker. He is has been molded into the Spurs system but put him on the Knicks and everyone would be wishin we still had Marbury. Parker would average 3 or 4 assists per game and go home everynight and dream about playin in San Antonio again.
 

George M.

Benchwarmer
The Knicks need an agile 6'11" or 7ft shotblocker that can rebound and defend playing both center and PF(someone not named M.Camby cause we won't get him back).A shotblocker would mask most of our defensive problems.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
George M. I agree with what you just said. That is the single biggest problem with this team, no shot blocking at all. You need to either play a good team defense or have a really good defensive big man like Dwight or Camby to make it to the playoffs and we dont have that.
 

knicklover

Benchwarmer
Do you watch the Knicks at all? Marbury found Curry 3 times with SPECTACULAR passes in one game. Marbury does most of these things you listed.

Marbury has handed this team to Curry and Crawford, calling him selfish is IGNORANT..and a statement with no base of truth.

Its Curry's fault because he's not passing it to open guys on double teams and when he does pass, our perimeter guys force the shot because Curry has terrible timing offensively. This is his team, remember?

Marbury left Minnesota because it was far away from home, not KG.

I don't know know any shooting guard's who average 8 assist for their career. Who ever they are, they must be pretty good.

Like I said, its not like Marbury is averaging 5 assist a game off bullshit, when he's on his game, he can give you 8-9 and create a lot of openings for his teammates.

STOP TRYING TO TAKE CREDIT AWAY FROM MARBURY'S NUMBERS AND ABILITY. lol @ this theory of "lucky assist", lets see you guys step on the court and average 8 assist for your career, you make it sound so EASY when majority of the men in the NBA have never done this. To be consistent through your career and be one of the league's assist man kills any bias argument that Marbury is "selfish" and "has no vision.

Marbury has been playing solid this d, and was playing great defense last season.

I think the reality is that you like Marbury a lot (for whatever reason) and/or fail to grasp what really makes a PG great (as opposed to just adequate). Stats DO NOT measure intangibles.

I didn't see all his games for NJ or Minnesota. He may have been a lot better in those days when he was younger. I have watched him a lot over the last few seasons in NY (especially the last two seasons. I only missed a few games). He's a competent and talented player, but he is light years away from the elite PGs in the game that ADD significant value to the players around them.

There is a difference between calling him adequate and saying he stinks or something. I never said the latter. I (and others) simply pointed out his shortcomings to the people that seem to love him beyond his actual ability.

By the way, if anything, I think last night proved beyond a shadow of doubt what I've been saying about Curry all year. He's playing as well this year as he was last year. His stats are down because his minutes are down, his touches are down, and the Knicks outside shooting may actually be even worse this year. That's largely a function of Zach being on the team. The last 2 nights Zach was suspended and got very few minutes and Curry's numbers went way up.

Zach even impacts Curry's rebound numbers. There are a limited number of rebound opportunities per game. You can only get one when someone misses a shot. There are occasions when an opponent misses and both Zach and Curry are in a position to get the board, but Zach is more aggressive about it and gets it. That's one rebound for Zach and one less for Curry vs. last year. Take Zach out of the lineup, and Curry's numbers this year (points and rebounds) would be as good or better than last year and a lot of this "hating" would vanish.
 

metrocard

Legend
I think the reality is that you like Marbury a lot (for whatever reason) and/or fail to grasp what really makes a PG great (as opposed to just adequate). Stats DO NOT measure intangibles.

I didn't see all his games for NJ or Minnesota. He may have been a lot better in those days when he was younger. I have watched him a lot over the last few seasons in NY (especially the last two seasons. I only missed a few games). He's a competent and talented player, but he is light years away from the elite PGs in the game that ADD significant value to the players around them.

There is a difference between calling him adequate and saying he stinks or something. I never said the latter. I (and others) simply pointed out his shortcomings to the people that seem to love him beyond his actual ability.

By the way, if anything, I think last night proved beyond a shadow of doubt what I've been saying about Curry all year. He's playing as well this year as he was last year. His stats are down because his minutes are down, his touches are down, and the Knicks outside shooting may actually be even worse this year. That's largely a function of Zach being on the team. The last 2 nights Zach was suspended and got very few minutes and Curry's numbers went way up.

Zach even impacts Curry's rebound numbers. There are a limited number of rebound opportunities per game. You can only get one when someone misses a shot. There are occasions when an opponent misses and both Zach and Curry are in a position to get the board, but Zach is more aggressive about it and gets it. That's one rebound for Zach and one less for Curry vs. last year. Take Zach out of the lineup, and Curry's numbers this year (points and rebounds) would be as good or better than last year and a lot of this "hating" would vanish.

Marbury was the best player for the Knicks from last season, and has been the best player on this team for the last 3 years. Pay your respect, do your research, and reread the history he's had here; I'm not going to waste my time and outline and educate you over with this Marbury bullshit. He's the LEAST of our problems and by far the best PG on this team and by far the best two way player on this team. Marbury takes no blame for this season because it's been an up and down roller coaster for Stephon; I expect and I PREDICT Marbury to be back his regular playing ways in a week. Once that starts, don't be surprised to see the Knicks preform better on a regular basis. Another "I told you so" situation.

Last season, Curry was still BAD. With all the touches he had, he averaged over 3.5 turnovers and couldn't even average 20 points per game. He's one dimensional and a kills ball movement. He was the worst defender, decision maker, and DEFENDER at his position. As good as he was in the paint, he worse at all the other categories.

This is the NBA, you have to move the ball, be able to score and create fast break points. Circling the team around Curry is really the worst way to trying to "win" in the NBA.

This is WHY Isiah set all this up. He's trying to lose in New York; thats his goal and focus and nothing else will stop him.

Curry isn't a rebounder. He doesn't fight for rebounds or box out. Randolph, Lee, and Balkman do that. Thats why they average a lot of rebounds. If you're trying to label Curry as a rebounder, I suggest you do more research about Curry before you try to give invalid information on Curry in this forum.

Only thing worse than the Knicks losing is Isiahsexuals arguing the root of the losing is not the problem and is still spraying the same bullshit they've said the season before; even after all this losing they still at it and will never get it; just continue with this fantasy that Crawford = Jesus, Isiah = God, Curry = Mary.
 

knicklover

Benchwarmer
Marbury was the best player for the Knicks from last season, and has been the best player on this team for the last 3 years. Pay your respect, do your research, and reread the history he's had here; I'm not going to waste my time and outline and educate you over with this Marbury bullshit. He's the LEAST of our problems and by far the best PG on this team and by far the best two way player on this team. Marbury takes no blame for this season because it's been an up and down roller coaster for Stephon; I expect and I PREDICT Marbury to be back his regular playing ways in a week. Once that starts, don't be surprised to see the Knicks preform better on a regular basis. Another "I told you so" situation.

Last season, Curry was still BAD. With all the touches he had, he averaged over 3.5 turnovers and couldn't even average 20 points per game. He's one dimensional and a kills ball movement. He was the worst defender, decision maker, and DEFENDER at his position. As good as he was in the paint, he worse at all the other categories.

This is the NBA, you have to move the ball, be able to score and create fast break points. Circling the team around Curry is really the worst way to trying to "win" in the NBA.

This is WHY Isiah set all this up. He's trying to lose in New York; thats his goal and focus and nothing else will stop him.

Curry isn't a rebounder. He doesn't fight for rebounds or box out. Randolph, Lee, and Balkman do that. Thats why they average a lot of rebounds. If you're trying to label Curry as a rebounder, I suggest you do more research about Curry before you try to give invalid information on Curry in this forum.

Metro,

With all due respect, you should actually read what people are saying before responding. You would stop wasting time refuting things I never said.

I never said Marbury was a bad player or even a major problem for the Knicks. All I've ever said is that if you look beyond the stats, there are intangible downsides that some people refuse to recognize despite the NEON signs screaming and shouting about them to anyone that watches the Knicks with an UNBIASED EYE. He's our PG and we can live and win with him, but he's not an elite PG - PERIOD - even he is one of our better players. If anything, the fact that he is one of better players tells us how bad the rest of the team is.

As to Curry, I never said he was great rebounder. I said his points and rebounds are both down this year because of Zach. Curry is getting fewer touches, fewer minutes, and even fewer rebounds per 48 minutes because Zach is a "superior" rebounder and takes a few away from him by being better at it. This is almost indisputable. It's not even worthy of discussion. Just look at the stats.

Curry did not average 20 last year. He averaged 19.5. But if you recall, he started the year with a lower average (around 16-18 PPG) and slowly worked it up to 19.5 over the season by averaging a little over 20 for an extended period of time. He did that DESPITE being double and triple teamed constantly. So he was playing 20+ PPG ball for a long time after a slow start.

It was obvious last year that what the Knicks needed was an outside shooter to relieve some of the pressure on Curry. Instead, we stayed with Qrich and he's even worse this year. Plus Marbury has been out and he's at least adequate from the 3 point line - though not as good as Nash and others from outside. So we lost even more outside shooting. That's a problem for Curry.

In addition, there ae SEVERAL reasons he has so many turnovers. One is simply his lack of skill at handling the ball, but the other is that HE IS GETTING DOUBLE AND TRIPLE TEAMED AL THE TIME. So he is way more likely to get stripped etc....

That's why it is so critical to get a serious outside shooter at SF if we stay with Curry. Either he or the outside shooter at SF will immediately get better because the opponent can't double team both of them. If they try to double Curry, there will be legit outside threat killing them and if they don't double Curry, he'll score 25 per night with a very high field goal percentage. His FG % is already among the leaders because he's so effective inside despite being doubled.

Stats are misleading. You have to look at what is creating the stats.

Again, Curry is not without serious defensive and other flaws, but he is WAAAAAY better than people that are hating on him lately think and every GM out there knows it.

With Zach out, he proved it and he didn't even have the help of great shooting SF to relieve the pressure on him.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
If you consider an elite point guard to be a top 5 pg then no, Marbury is not one of the 5 best. You dont need a top 5 point guard to win a championship.

Top 5 Point guards

Nash
Kidd
Baron Davis
Deron Williams
Chris Paul

When was the last time any of these players won a championship? Never, shmuck. Tony Parker is the most overrated point guard in the league but he is a team player and hes surrounded by team players. You have to be fair to Marbury, the last time he was surrounded by team players Amare Stoudamire was a rookie. Let me ask you this asshole, who ever said he was an elite point guard? I believe the last time I checked Metro said he was a top 15. With all due respect, you should actually read what people are saying before responding.

If you ask me hes a step down from the elite point guards as proven in 2 games earlier season where he played just as well as Deron Williams and check out Steve Nash's shooting percentages from the game where Marburys pops passed. He can play with them, its not like they're "light years ahead of him." Im really gettin sick of all the hate directed at Marbury, its gettin old.
 
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