The one problem with NOT making Curry the focus of the offense is that the only thing he does well is score and draw double teams etc....
If we learned anything via the Zach experiment, it's that Curry is useless without the ball because he can't defend, block shots, or rebound.
So let's assume we allow Marbury to be "the man". IMHO, the Knicks would immediately become a worse team because Curry would become a big black hole zero on the court. As it is, if you make Curry the focus, Marbury can still contribute in a meaningful way with passes, defense, some scoring etc....
So we have to make a decision.
If you don't think we can ever win a championship with Curry as the center - even if we put a defensive, rebounding, shot blocking, bruiser of a PF next to him and a good shooting SF outside to draw away double teams, then we need to get rid of Curry immediately.
But just switching to Marbury as the focal point of the offense IMO is going to do exactly what happened when Zach was taking a lot of shots etc.... It's going to turn Curry into a human zero on the court because all he can do is score.
I haven't seen people get easy shots off of double teams. What I've been seeing is Eddy miss shots, while shooting over double teams,turn the ball over, or kick it out to Richardson and Crawford, who shoot 41% and 30% from the field. So how does getting the ball to Eddy make sense? And what you fail to mention is that when Curry was the go to man last year, he didn't play well on both ends of the floor. In fact, he was a good scorer with no rebounds or defense.Just face it, Curry will never be a go to man. Go to players are not 1 dimensional. Say what you want about Marbury, but he has never been criticized for only having 1 strength.Marbury can score, pass the ball, and is good at attacking the basket for free throws and and 1's.Curry, on the other hand has been considered a player that can score in the low post, but is "soft on defense and has trouble on the glass."Name a strength Curry has other than low post scoring? You can't. If you were to ask what can Marbury do besides score, you'll hear passing,getting deflections, and helping others get involved in the game,and he quickens the pace of the offense.
There is a difference between making Eddy the "go to" guy and running the offense through him. Running the offense through Eddy means Steph or whoever brings the up the floor kicks it in to Eddy and then the play evolves from there. That doesn't necessarily make Eddy the "go to" guy, just 1st option. What does Steph prefer??? Bring the ball up, dribble around the key, and either throw up a 20 footer or try and get to the bucket??? I'm telling you Steph cannot carry any team doing that and the Knicks cannot win that way. The bigger issue is that again Steph is a malcontent. What happened to following your coaches instructions and running the offense?? Guys from pee-wee to pro do this but not Steph. If he can't just come out and freewheel, then he either pouts, quits, blackmails, or just gets on a plane and leaves.
The one problem with NOT making Curry the focus of the offense is that the only thing he does well is score and draw double teams etc....
If we learned anything via the Zach experiment, it's that Curry is useless without the ball because he can't defend, block shots, or rebound.
So let's assume we allow Marbury to be "the man". IMHO, the Knicks would immediately become a worse team because Curry would become a big black hole zero on the court. As it is, if you make Curry the focus, Marbury can still contribute in a meaningful way with passes, defense, some scoring etc....
So we have to make a decision.
If you don't think we can ever win a championship with Curry as the center - even if we put a defensive, rebounding, shot blocking, bruiser of a PF next to him and a good shooting SF outside to draw away double teams, then we need to get rid of Curry immediately.
But just switching to Marbury as the focal point of the offense IMO is going to do exactly what happened when Zach was taking a lot of shots etc.... It's going to turn Curry into a human zero on the court because all he can do is score.
Exactly. Steph is on the downside of his career and best days far behind him. Eddy is still so young and we spent what amounted to lottery picks to get him. So lets see what Eddy can do. Eddy has shown he can dominate a game on both ends of the floor when given the opportunity. Like Knicklover says if Eddy is not option #1 he should be traded immediatly. Anyway name me one team in the NBA who's PG is their 1st scoring option??? Maybe Baron Davis out there in Golden State, but that guy is a special talent and best player on the team. Steph is far from that. I don't understand Steph because as soon as his Knicks contract is up, HIS NBA CAREER IS OVER. No other team will touch Steph with a ten foot pole with all his antics and baggage. So this is Steph's last chance for a winner and he acts like this??? That let's you know as player, Steph is not a winner.
am i in the twilight zone...are we watching the same games as you are???.. give me one...only one example when wide-load dominated on the defensive end..
Turnover prone.
No passion for the game.
No care of his physical health.
Poor work ethic/very lazy.
Bad attitude/no leadership qualities.
The most out of shape player in the NBA, a walking buffet.
Worst shot blocker at his position.
Worst rebounder at his position.
Worst assist man at his poistion.
Worst offensive and defensive awareness at his position(who sets a screen on their own players?)
No athleticism at all, only thing to his advantage is his gay ballerina footwork with his plump elephant ass.
Will score in the paint, but give up twice as many points in the NBA to the other team.
Least intense player on the team/has no chemistry with teammates and is completely useless if he doesn't score.
Marbury and Davis are on the same level, Davis has a better supporting cast.
if Marbury is a loser, then what are Curry/Crawford? How much did they win in Chicago and here?
I was really pissed when people jump on Isiah's back and believed Curry can lead this franchise to winning with all those qualities I listed. I was like WTF was going on? Thats why I picked on Isiahsexuals; they never GOT IT and probably won't since they lack common sense. I've said before and I'll say it again; Eddy Curry is the worst first option in the NBA; thats why our offense sticks. Curry and Zach were the two WORST first options in the NBA, be the leader in ppg on their teams but the teams average a low PPG total amongst the league. Now Isiah has them both.
I'm done talking. If you're going to defend Curry,one of the worst defensive centers in the NBA, then there's no real argument.Keep supporting Curry. Let's see how far a no playoff apearance or playoff game played player will get you.
am i in the twilight zone...are we watching the same games as you are???.. give me one...only one example when wide-load dominated on the defensive end..
Turnover prone.
No passion for the game.
No care of his physical health.
Poor work ethic/very lazy.
Bad attitude/no leadership qualities.
The most out of shape player in the NBA, a walking buffet.
Worst shot blocker at his position.
Worst rebounder at his position.
Worst assist man at his poistion.
Worst offensive and defensive awareness at his position(who sets a screen on their own players?)
No athleticism at all, only thing to his advantage is his gay ballerina footwork with his plump elephant ass.
Will score in the paint, but give up twice as many points in the NBA to the other team.
Least intense player on the team/has no chemistry with teammates and is completely useless if he doesn't score.
Marbury and Davis are on the same level, Davis has a better supporting cast.
if Marbury is a loser, then what are Curry/Crawford? How much did they win in Chicago and here?
I was really pissed when people jump on Isiah's back and believed Curry can lead this franchise to winning with all those qualities I listed. I was like WTF was going on? Thats why I picked on Isiahsexuals; they never GOT IT and probably won't since they lack common sense. I've said before and I'll say it again; Eddy Curry is the worst first option in the NBA; thats why our offense sticks. Curry and Zach were the two WORST first options in the NBA, be the leader in ppg on their teams but the teams average a low PPG total amongst the league. Now Isiah has them both.
When you you say Steph is on Baron Davis' level, you lose all credibility. On Steph's best day he can throw up the type of numbers Baron puts up night in and night out. Add Baron's playoff sucess with no real center, just a bunch of guys who run with him and jack up 3's and there is no contest.
MAN BARON IS THE MAN! lolz naw yo he can deff ball...like its kool how he jsut drives it 2 the basket and makes it ...steph can 2 but baron can over power him and the handles...probably BARON
Wow, just give up how you gonna try to defend Curry at this point? Curry is a bitch ass pussy, straight up and thats comin from the heart. Hows he gonna blame his poor play on Zach. LIke Z-Bo said Currys gotta play strong no matter whos on the court but instead he continues to play like a bitch and F*ck Randolph but he aint as bad as Curry. There is nothing worse then watching a player blessed with the size and athletic ability to be one of the best players in the league play like a pussy.
Wow, just give up how you gonna try to defend Curry at this point? Curry is a bitch ass pussy, straight up and thats comin from the heart. Hows he gonna blame his poor play on Zach. LIke Z-Bo said Currys gotta play strong no matter whos on the court but instead he continues to play like a bitch and F*ck Randolph but he aint as bad as Curry. There is nothing worse then watching a player blessed with the size and athletic ability to be one of the best players in the league play like a pussy.
What these people fail to mention is that Curry has never been a good defender, rebounder, or free throw shooter on the Knicks or Bulls.How is it Randolph's fault that he can't do any of those things?Plus, Randolph actually averages more assists than Curry, and that's saying a lot considering Randolph is a ballhog.Call me crazy,but that tells me that it's Curry's fault he sucks.But I guess some people just don't realize that, even though the facts are right in their face.Don't worry about it, though. When they see Curry let Chauncey Billups lay it up in his face(which it will happen)then they gonna know why Curry is no good.
Wow, just give up how you gonna try to defend Curry at this point? Curry is a bitch ass pussy, straight up and thats comin from the heart. Hows he gonna blame his poor play on Zach. LIke Z-Bo said Currys gotta play strong no matter whos on the court but instead he continues to play like a bitch and F*ck Randolph but he aint as bad as Curry. There is nothing worse then watching a player blessed with the size and athletic ability to be one of the best players in the league play like a pussy.
You said it. You CANNOT coach what Eddy has: size and athleticism. How many Trailblazer fans said the same thing about Jermaine O'neal while he was there, only to watch him blossom with the Pacers??? All these young centers coming out with no college experience will need extra time to develop in the pros. In time Eddy learn what work type of work ethic it takes to be a pro and he will be a top five center in this league for a long time, if he isn't already.
man Curry can be the best center well one of them...is that we got wrong coaching staff...i mean good offensive cuz they taught him alot BUT no defensive coaches...and other then that...Curry just dosent try...i watch him man he just gives up...and it gets me mad cuz he can dominates games...and he chooses not 2...cuz of a stupid call or cuz they missed him once when he was open...
When you you say Steph is on Baron Davis' level, you lose all credibility. On Steph's best day he can throw up the type of numbers Baron puts up night in and night out. Add Baron's playoff sucess with no real center, just a bunch of guys who run with him and jack up 3's and there is no contest.
He is. Marbury has been a 20 and 8 PG for most of his career. Davis have been 18 and 7 but very injury prone. Once Marbury gets a new scene, he'll be Starbury.
Speedy Claxton and veteran forward Dale Davis was traded for Davis; he was a cancer in Charlotte, injury prone and had a VERY bad relationship with the coaches. So lets not act like Baron Davis is all perfect. He's on Marbury's level, always been.
Biendirins is a good center, I suggest you watch more NBA basketball. He's a double double player with excellent defense.
You have to agree with me when Baron Davis has a good supporting cast. Last season he had like 4-5 potential 20 point scorers from Jackson to J-Rich to Harrington to Ellis and even their other subs would drop bombs.
PLUS, Davis is playing with the best COACH in the NBA.
Its all about supporting cast and coaching.
Jason Terry didn't win munch at all in Atlanta and people considered him a stat padder. When he went to a better scene in Dallas, everything changed, especially under a good coach.
You understand now? Comparing two players when one is in a positive environment and the other is a negative environment is ignorant.
Talent/Ability wise; both are equal.
Anyway, you're not going to convince me unless you drop some heavy facts.
He is. Marbury has been a 20 and 8 PG for most of his career. Davis have been 18 and 7 but very injury prone. Once Marbury gets a new scene, he'll be Starbury.
Speedy Claxton and veteran forward Dale Davis was traded for Davis; he was a cancer in Charlotte, injury prone and had a VERY bad relationship with the coaches. So lets not act like Baron Davis is all perfect. He's on Marbury's level, always been.
Biendirins is a good center, I suggest you watch more NBA basketball. He's a double double player with excellent defense.
You have to agree with me when Baron Davis has a good supporting cast. Last season he had like 4-5 potential 20 point scorers from Jackson to J-Rich to Harrington to Ellis and even their other subs would drop bombs.
PLUS, Davis is playing with the best COACH in the NBA.
Its all about supporting cast and coaching.
Jason Terry didn't win munch at all in Atlanta and people considered him a stat padder. When he went to a better scene in Dallas, everything changed, especially under a good coach.
You understand now? Comparing two players when one is in a positive environment and the other is a negative environment is ignorant.
Talent/Ability wise; both are equal.
Anyway, you're not going to convince me unless you drop some heavy facts.
Dude you seem to be a really good Knick fan and I see eye to eye with you on many things but this thing you have with Marbury is comical. It's almost as bad as the people who think Jamal Crawford is a starting 2 guard on a good nba team. Baron Davis is far and away more talented then Steph. He is a far more explosive scorer, capable of putting up a triple double on any night and a better defender. It's true that Baron Davis has been injury prone but if the discussion is about how talented the player is, then talking durability makes no sense. Every single gm in the league would take a 25 year old Baron Davis over a 25 Stephon. Don't get me wrong Steph is a real good player but he's just not on Davis' level.
The Hornets, especially while Davis was there, were among the most chaotically run nba franchises (similar to how the knicks are now). Your point of him being a cancer who hadn't gotten along with coaches is wrong. While in Charlotte he played for Paul Silas (notoriously difficult to get along with, just ask Lebron James) as well as Tim Floyd (ex coach of the worst team in nba history) but still there was never any turmoil involving Baron Davis. Where you're even getting that he was a coach killing cancer from is beyond me.
Baron Davis can not only dominate games but he can dominate playoff series and not just last year against the Mavs either. One of the best playoff series of recent years was his coming out party in the 2001 Eastern Conference semifinals against the Bucks where it was him and Ray Allen going back and forth for 7 games until Milwaukee prevailed. Look at what he did the next year against T-Mac and the Magic where if I remember correctly he averaged close to a triple double for the series. Marbury is not capable of being that player. I mean think about it is there really one thing Marbury does better on a basketball court better then Davis? Oh and I forgot Davis has also got a post up game.
Look man it's obvious that you're a knowledgeable fan but to think Marbury has the same amount of talent/ability as Davis is laughable but I get it sometimes we have soft spots for players we like and tend to overrate them. All that said you're right Marbury will go to another team and do well. He has been given a raw deal here and been treated terribly by Isiah and the Knicks but at the same time he hasn't helped himself either with his antics.
The smartest thing I ever heard anyone say about Marbury was by Barkley on TNT when he said that for whatever reason Stephon Marbury does not get it.
Dude you seem to be a really good Knick fan and I see eye to eye with you on many things but this thing you have with Marbury is comical. It's almost as bad as the people who think Jamal Crawford is a starting 2 guard on a good nba team. Baron Davis is far and away more talented then Steph. He is a far more explosive scorer, capable of putting up a triple double on any night and a better defender. It's true that Baron Davis has been injury prone but if the discussion is about how talented the player is, then talking durability makes no sense. Every single gm in the league would take a 25 year old Baron Davis over a 25 Stephon. Don't get me wrong Steph is a real good player but he's just not on Davis' level.
The Hornets, especially while Davis was there, were among the most chaotically run nba franchises (similar to how the knicks are now). Your point of him being a cancer who hadn't gotten along with coaches is wrong. While in Charlotte he played for Paul Silas (notoriously difficult to get along with, just ask Lebron James) as well as Tim Floyd (ex coach of the worst team in nba history) but still there was never any turmoil involving Baron Davis. Where you're even getting that he was a coach killing cancer from is beyond me.
Baron Davis can not only dominate games but he can dominate playoff series and not just last year against the Mavs either. One of the best playoff series of recent years was his coming out party in the 2001 Eastern Conference semifinals against the Bucks where it was him and Ray Allen going back and forth for 7 games until Milwaukee prevailed. Look at what he did the next year against T-Mac and the Magic where if I remember correctly he averaged close to a triple double for the series. Marbury is not capable of being that player. I mean think about it is there really one thing Marbury does better on a basketball court better then Davis? Oh and I forgot Davis has also got a post up game.
Look man it's obvious that you're a knowledgeable fan but to think Marbury has the same amount of talent/ability as Davis is laughable but I get it sometimes we have soft spots for players we like and tend to overrate them. All that said you're right Marbury will go to another team and do well. He has been given a raw deal here and been treated terribly by Isiah and the Knicks but at the same time he hasn't helped himself either with his antics.
The smartest thing I ever heard anyone say about Marbury was by Barkley on TNT when he said that for whatever reason Stephon Marbury does not get it.
You're obviously have a very poor assessment of Marbury's "talent". I'm guessing because you think Davis can dunk and Marbury doesn't means he's more "talented".
Here is what you're wrong about.
Davis gets more steals, but Marbury is a more capable man to man defender.
Davis isn't Kidd or Lebron, the last time he average 5 rebounds was his sophomore year in 2000. He has only had 5-6 triple doubles in his NBA career, check the stats and do your homework next time. I'm not here for your opinion or hate on Marbury, I'm here the facts. I'm not going sit here and say "Marbury equals Davis in my opinion", no, I'm going to post facts that back up that statement. Fuck your opinion and fuck my opinion.
Stop stop stop, you're saying "far" too much to stretch your point that isn't even valid. Marbury at his prime was one of the most explosive players at his position, this was known. Marbury DID IT in more games; where as Baron was limited with poor conditioning(there was a point he was pretty much the fattest PG in the NBA and was the worst PG in the NBA at keeping his body healthy; I'll break that down later in my post).
Lets look at the facts of history.
Baron Davis's season high in points per game 03-04
22.9 ppg 39% Jamal Crawfordish FG% 32% 3PT
582 3pt shots attempted
67% Free Throw %
352 free throw attempts% in 40 minutes
on 3.2 turnovers.
Stephon Marbury's season high in points per game 00-01
23.9 ppg 44%FG
33%3pt
79% FT 458 Free throw attempts in 67 games in 38 minutes
in 2.9 turnovers
The things I bolded signify nothing "explosive" for Baron Davis and stats that prove the fact that Marbury is a penetrator. Marbury had more points, more free throw attempts, less turnovers, and less minutes, and most importantly shooting better from everywhere in the court.
Baron Davis has been a CHUCKER for most of his career. 582 3pt shots attempted is absolutely pathetic along with a 39% FG doing his Jamal Crawford imitation, and your arguement has no base anymore; it shows that you don't know who Baron Davis is. In the last 3 seasons, Davis has attempted 7.1 three point shots per game and only making 32% of them. You can't deny he's a chucker.
Davis could of been a more explosive PG than Marbury but he falls in love with his inaccurate 3pt shot (32% career 3pt shooter) and has put his teams in bad position by chucking them out of games. Marbury is by "far" the superior penatrator, superior in getting to the free throw line and a superior shooter. I rather have Stephon at his prime control the offense than I have some 39% FG and 32% 3pt guy taking 600 three's and only 300 FT attempts along with over 3 turnovers. It really makes no sense to me or anyone in this forum how you could even think Davis is or was a more explosive scorer than Marbury. I'm guessing you think dunk = explosive, kiddy logic.
It makes great sense that durability has to do apart with your talent. You're not born with talent, you develop on throughout your career and IMPROVE. Davis hasn't been consistent in his career because he can't display his talent from being injury prone and not healthy or well conditioned. Thats his fault, like how its Eddy Curry's fault for not fulfing his talent.
Baron Davis haven't played 82 games 2001-02, and he only done that twice as a starter in his career.
Give me a 20 and 8 guy who plays more games and gives more production than an injury prone 17 and 7 guy who gives insufficient production and misses a whole lot of games.
Marbury has had a better career than Baron Davis, no question; but I'm giving Baron Davis credit because he is very talented could of been the best PG in the NBA if he had better conditioning throughout his career. This is his downfall and what set him back a couple of steps.
It takes a lot of work, talent and skill to have a steady consistent and rare special career Marbury has had and the numbers he puts up. 20 and 8 is too good to deny; taking credit from Marbury's talent tags the word ignorant on your head for being a bias hater instead of mutually understanding both men's equality of talent.
You don't know any GM's in the NBA, give me something that could convince me because your opinion won't do a thing except look for more things to correct. Its laughable that you feel your opinion that a bunch of GM's would choose Davis > Marbury at 25 is really random and the most comical thing said by anyone in this thread. Its like a reach, if this was boxing you would of been hit hard with a right cross for reaching and missing. But I'm going for the TKO, so lets compare the two when they were 25.
I believe Davis was 25 in 03-04(his career high season, if you wanna take the season before that his numbers were inferior)
22.9 ppg
39% FG
32% 3PT
582 3pt shots attempted
67% Free Throw %
352 free throw attempts%
in 40 minutes
on 3.2 turnovers.
Marbury's career high season in PPG was also 25, thanks for making this easy for me.
23.9 ppg 44%FG 33%3pt 79% FT 458 Free throw attempts in 67 games in 38 minutes in 2.9 turnovers
Basically Marbury has the advantage in everything, get mad if you want but the facts are the facts. Marbury was a better PG and more efficient player at 25 and for most of his career than Baron Davis, fact.
Stop making excuses for Davis, he has the worst shot selection for a NBA PG when he was playing for the Hornets and was a cancer and the Antonie Walker for that team for a while. Whats the point of having a post up game if you don't use it? Davis takes 7.1 3pt shots a game, excellent impression of Walker/Crawford.
One of the most athletic PG's in the NBA when he was healthy.
What I noticed about Baron Davis is that he's not a real point guard. He's a wildguard. He shoots a lot of shots, and it's either feast or famine. If he knocks down the shots, it's all good, but when he misses, it looks disasterous.I like the way Davis plays,and he's one of my favorite players, but I don't think it's fair to compare Baron Davis to Mabury.Baron Davis doesn't play like a point guard, he plays like a shooting guard/small forward that can catch fire every once in a while. If you ask people if Baron Davis is a pure point guard, most people would say no.He's a good passer, but his shot selection is of a shooting guard or a small forward.
