Damn one good stretch in a season and dudes are hailing people as great defenders. Too bad the Nets or Suns didn't feel that they could build a team around Marbury. I like Marbury a lot but Metro gives him way too much credit as some type of savior to a team. Derek Fisher is putting in more work that Marbury these days.
I watch every disgusting Knick game homie. You boy Marbury is gone. Stop holding on to that 20 and 8 like Al Bundy and his 4 TD's.
Again with the stats, dude are you a nitwit? The Knicks were blown out in that game in large part to Kidd abusing Marbury. Marbury padded his stats by hitting meaningless free throws in the 4th quarter of that game. You mention the Net roster which is fair. Let me ask you this though based on pure talent isn't the knick roster of the last 3 seasons comparable to that Net roster?
Marbury a better a defensive player then Kidd??? Now you're just being absurd. Jason Kidd has been first or second team all defense 9 times. I might be wrong about this but the next time Steph makes that team will be his first.
Besides Nate and Balkman, Steph is my favorite player on the team. Kidd over complaining???? Are you trying to be funny or just blinded by your love for Marbury? Microfracture surgery is career threatening. just ask Allan Houston.
Just the fact that you're trying to tell us that Kidd did not own Marbury in 2004 just proves that you don't have a clue. You must use the sweat from Marbury's jock strap as cologne.
No way did Kidd own Marbury, he slightly outplayed him at best. And your right about one thing, at that point Kidd was a better defender but last year and this year I would take Marbury over Kidd. Hes obviously older and that has sumthin to do with it.
I have a hard time believen that Kidd was in enough pain to slow him down, he looked ok to me. I understand how threatening that surgery is but I remember watching that series and it didnt look like Kidd was hurt.
Is this Knicks team comparible to that Nets team was? as far as overall talent maybe but the Nets had Kmart and RJ playing with Kidd (no homo). Its unfair to compare this Knicks team to any other team because of what Isiah has done as a coach and the way he poorly built the team. We got talent but theres no hope for the team and the fact that you asked me to compare that Nets team to this Knicks team tells me that your desperate and that your tryin to hang on. Im not even tryin my hardest to win this arguement rite now. That Nets team was constructed alot better then this Knicks team, RJ and Kmart are perfect players to have on the court with Kidd.
Damn one good stretch in a season and dudes are hailing people as great defenders. Too bad the Nets or Suns didn't feel that they could build a team around Marbury. I like Marbury a lot but Metro gives him way too much credit as some type of savior to a team. Derek Fisher is putting in more work that Marbury these days.
I watch every disgusting Knick game homie. You boy Marbury is gone. Stop holding on to that 20 and 8 like Al Bundy and his 4 TD's.
The ironic thing about msg and metro is that they blindly look at Marbury in exactly the same blind way that the people who support Isiah once did that they loved (rightfully so) to poke fun at and call out.
We got talent but theres no hope for the team and the fact that you asked me to compare that Nets team to this Knicks team tells me that your desperate and that your tryin to hang on. Im not even tryin my hardest to win this arguement rite now.
What exactly makes you think you won this argument? The voices in your head or the big kiss you got from metro?
Jason Kidd is an all time great player who's going to the hall of fame. The only hall of fame Marbury will ever be in is the one for Coney Island and if the Nets ever move to BK Kidd will probably be in the Brooklyn Hall of Fame before Steph. To have a conversation comparing Kidd to Marbury is like comparing Vida Guerra's ass to Kate Moss' , it's just not there like that.
The original discussion was comparing Baron Davis to Marbury. Baron's dominated how many playoff series wins compared to Steph? End of discussion, thanx in advance.
Players are judged not just on numbers and talent but in how they are able to include that within the structure of a winning team. For whatever reason Steph has proven time and time again that he has not been capable of doing that. He is almost 31 years old now and the time has come to point the finger at him being the problem.
Metro how many Deboes is that for you today, 9 or 10? lol they try to sound smart but all there sayin is opinions. We droppin knowlege and analyses' backed up by facts. Starbury 4 real is doin a good job of holdin it down.
I forgot to state my opinion on the whole Baron Davis vs Marbury debate. After Marbury davis is one of my favorite pgs and I watch GS all the time. I think Davis is having a better year then Marbury but is unfair to make Marbury comparisons with the circumstances of this year.
When you look at both of their careers Marbury is defenitly the better player. Hes got better shooting percentages and hes a better passer. Watching Baron Davis, I see that occasionally he has some good shooting nights, hes been doin better the past 5 games but overall he has alot of embarrassing Crawford type of games where he misses two thirds of his shots. Alot of the Marbury haters dont care about embarrasing themselves with stupid opinions that cant be backed by facts and false analysis's of their ignorant opinions.
Metro you won the Baron Davis arguement 4 or 5 times, you killen them. They dont know when to shut up but the more they say the less I respect their posts. NYK_NYk has lost all my respect, I think Ill skip over his posts from now on.
Pretty much Eddy has no arguement here. He gets more frustrated at you and the stats you digged up. Its hilarious when people have stats digged up on them and tell them "The stats dont matter!", lmao how ignorant.
yo, fuck Marbury; I honestly don't give a mad ass fuck who likes him or not, thats not what its about. I just want you stubborn people to understand what he did for team and what the other guys didn't, thats what separates Marbury from the rest of the team as a PLAYER. If you're going to turn this into a "who likes who" thing instead of debate basketball, please kindly get the fuck out.
LOL...don't even mention Baron Davis in this thread bro, I kinda feel bad for the guy since I exposed him and Jimcheif brought nothing to back him up.
I'm not sure if House Special watches the NBA today, Jason Kidd's defense isn't good anymore, he's two steps slow and gets burned by mediocre PG's like Arroyo.
nyk_nyk, aren't you the same herb who hails Crawford's one game and proclaiming him a good shooter because of one game? But you can't hail Marbury for playing good defense throughout the season? Your ignorance continues to amaze everyone. Marbury >>> Fisher, no comparision. Playing with Kobe and Shaq isn't that hard. How far would a line up of Fisher/Shandon Anderson/Tim Thomas/Kurt Thomas/Nazr go? Marbury would be a monster in LA, you don't even know what the Triangle offense is. Marbury can take advantage of one on one penetration that is set up in the triangle offense, especially with all the court spacing.
Umm I dont know which papers you've been reading but the majority of the media has been on Marbury's side this season. As I've said before Isiah has been so bad that he's made the media sympathetic towards Steph. With all due respect you appear to be the naive (yes thats how you spell it) one with regard to Steph.
Great defense??? You're funny. He played d, inconsistently, for one season of his career.
I'm not a Marbury hater at all, he is by far the best player on the Knicks and I truly believe that he will bounce back well if a team gives him a chance. I have said that Isiah has screwed him this season and Steph's gotten a raw deal. However I am objective and Marbury's career has proven, if nothing else, that a NBA team where he is the best player isn't going anywhere. Do you deny this?
What your sayin about the media is somewhat true but once a player gets a bad rep its hard to get rid of it. I dont believe im the niave one (im glad to see you know how to spell). A quick look at stats is not conclusive enough for me, I look into things. All of the teams that Marbury played for got better after he left for a reason other then Marbury leaving:
Twolves-KG bein 1 year older, thats what most young players do they get better from one year to the next
Nets-Kmart was a rookie when Marbury played the acquistion of RJ
Suns-Amare Stoudamire was in his 2nd season when Marbury got traded.
It can just as easily be argued that had Marbury stayed on any of these teams they would have been better the following year anyways. The media rubs that shit in all the time, how every team got better after Marbury left and you are niave because you listen to them instead of looking into things and forming your own opinions.
You just proved to me that you didnt watch the Knicks last year by saying marburys defense was inconsistent. I shouldnt even be responding to someone who doesnt watch the Knicks.
Metro how many Deboes is that for you today, 9 or 10? lol they try to sound smart but all there sayin is opinions. We droppin knowlege and analyses' backed up by facts. Starbury 4 real is doin a good job of holdin it down.
I forgot to state my opinion on the whole Baron Davis vs Marbury debate. After Marbury davis is one of my favorite pgs and I watch GS all the time. I think Davis is having a better year then Marbury but is unfair to make Marbury comparisons with the circumstances of this year.
When you look at both of their careers Marbury is defenitly the better player. Hes got better shooting percentages and hes a better passer. Watching Baron Davis, I see that occasionally he has some good shooting nights, hes been doin better the past 5 games but overall he has alot of embarrassing Crawford type of games where he misses two thirds of his shots. Alot of the Marbury haters dont care about embarrasing themselves with stupid opinions that cant be backed by facts and false analysis's of their ignorant opinions.
Metro you won the Baron Davis arguement 4 or 5 times, you killen them. They dont know when to shut up but the more they say the less I respect their posts. NYK_NYk has lost all my respect, I think Ill skip over his posts from now on.
LOL this dude thinks he's the king of Knicksonline.com. What the hell do I care if you skip my posts, your ass isn't the only reader on here. People don't have to agree with me and I'll still read what they have to say. I won't nut hug people just because they share the same views as me.
LOL this dude thinks he's the king of Knicksonline.com. What the hell do I care if you skip my posts, your ass isn't the only reader on here. People don't have to agree with me and I'll still read what they have to say. I won't nut hug people just because they share the same views as me.
What your sayin about the media is somewhat true but once a player gets a bad rep its hard to get rid of it. I dont believe im the niave one (im glad to see you know how to spell). A quick look at stats is not conclusive enough for me, I look into things. All of the teams that Marbury played for got better after he left for a reason other then Marbury leaving:
Twolves-KG bein 1 year older, thats what most young players do they get better from one year to the next
Nets-Kmart was a rookie when Marbury played the acquistion of RJ
Suns-Amare Stoudamire was in his 2nd season when Marbury got traded.
It can just as easily be argued that had Marbury stayed on any of these teams they would have been better the following year anyways. The media rubs that shit in all the time, how every team got better after Marbury left and you are niave because you listen to them instead of looking into things and forming your own opinions.
You just proved to me that you didnt watch the Knicks last year by saying marburys defense was inconsistent. I shouldnt even be responding to someone who doesnt watch the Knicks.
What exactly makes you think you won this argument? The voices in your head or the big kiss you got from metro?
Jason Kidd is an all time great player who's going to the hall of fame. The only hall of fame Marbury will ever be in is the one for Coney Island and if the Nets ever move to BK Kidd will probably be in the Brooklyn Hall of Fame before Steph. To have a conversation comparing Kidd to Marbury is like comparing Vida Guerra's ass to Kate Moss' , it's just not there like that.
The original discussion was comparing Baron Davis to Marbury. Baron's dominated how many playoff series wins compared to Steph? End of discussion, thanx in advance.
Players are judged not just on numbers and talent but in how they are able to include that within the structure of a winning team. For whatever reason Steph has proven time and time again that he has not been capable of doing that. He is almost 31 years old now and the time has come to point the finger at him being the problem.
When did I call Marbury a hall of famer, and when did i say kidd isnt a hall of famer? NOw your really losin it man this shits been over. The only thing I can do is speculate with marbury and say if he was on the right team he couldve been a hall of famer. I think hes got the talent but thats sumthin we'll never know.
When did this go from The Nets vs the Knicks in the playoffs to who's a hall of famer? You changed the subject you were sayin that Kidd owned Marbury in the playoffs and I proved you wrong. Accept the loss and find another forum to join, the only thing good about you is your name. The big kiss i got from your mother last night told me that I won this arguement, even she told me that I won.
When did I call Marbury a hall of famer, and when did i say kidd isnt a hall of famer? NOw your really losin it man this shits been over. The only thing I can do is speculate with marbury and say if he was on the right team he couldve been a hall of famer. I think hes got the talent but thats sumthin we'll never know.
When did this go from The Nets vs the Knicks in the playoffs to who's a hall of famer? You changed the subject you were sayin that Kidd owned Marbury in the playoffs and I proved you wrong. Accept the loss and find another forum to join, the only thing good about you is your name. The big kiss i got from your mother last night told me that I won this arguement, even she told me that I won.
Easiest way to ignore the facts layed on you is run to a different topic. I don't know anyone in this thread who stated Marbury is going to the Hall of Fame. Dude lost like 8-9 times in a hour by changing subjects. I feel bad doing this, this should be illegal; brain rape.
nyk_nyk, aren't you the same herb who hails Crawford's one game and proclaiming him a good shooter because of one game? But you can't hail Marbury for playing good defense throughout the season? Your ignorance continues to amaze everyone. Marbury >>> Fisher, no comparision. Playing with Kobe and Shaq isn't that hard.
Wrong again. I didn't mention the 52 point game to prove he can shoot. If you ask any player in the NBA they will tell you that scoring 50 is damn difficult so if in fact Crawford is as whack as you make him out to be then he could have never accomplished that feat. I guess you didn't get it the first time.
Pretty much Eddy has no arguement here. He gets more frustrated at you and the stats you digged up. Its hilarious when people have stats digged up on them and tell them "The stats dont matter!", lmao how ignorant.
LOL...don't even mention Baron Davis in this thread bro, I kinda feel bad for the guy since I exposed him and Jimcheif brought nothing to back him up.
I'm not sure if House Special watches the NBA today, Jason Kidd's defense isn't good anymore, he's two steps slow and gets burned by mediocre PG's like Arroyo.
I love how ya'll don't even respond to certain things that you obviously have no answer for. Once again Baron Davis has been the dominant player in how many playoff series wins compared to Marbury?
Please enlighten me and explain how much the stats matter?
Kidd's defense has slipped but he is still more consistent then Steph.
You are right about one thing getting into these discussions comparing players is silly this is about the Knicks and getting them better. I'd rather have Isiah go then Steph but at this point I think Marbury needs a fresh start (for like the 4th time in his career) somewhere else.
There is only one stat that matters and that's winning. Sadly Marbury ranks near the bottom of the league in that category. Ironically the only guys that are lower are Crawford, Randolph and Curry. And they're all on the same starting five, our starting five, yay!!! *shakes head*
nyk_nyk, then you didn't say anything to prove that Crawford could shoot(I mean shoot good, everyone in the NBA can shoot the basketball literally). All you brought up was Jamal's 50 point and I was WTF? Is he serious or stupid?
As for Pancakes, you avoided the Baron Davis/Marbury thing, lost it consecutively and now want to argue a point thats been argued and made clear already? Do I have to hold your hand and have you re-read page 3 in this thread? Come on, READ, COMPREHEND and atleast try to have a mutual understanding. I've stated everything that needed to be stated about Davis/Marbury, you didn't reply with crap. MSG33 came down and put the hammer on the debate he had with now, now you want to go back to this? Makes no sense; break down my post then I'll give a listen to what you gotta say about Davis/Marbury. Why are you talking about yourself? You've failed miserably giving answers to certain "things", thats your reputation on here. I'll consider the argument when you could go back to page 3 and break down the BD/SM post.
LOL this dude thinks he's the king of Knicksonline.com. What the hell do I care if you skip my posts, your ass isn't the only reader on here. People don't have to agree with me and I'll still read what they have to say. I won't nut hug people just because they share the same views as me.
Easiest way to ignore the facts layed on you is run to a different topic. I don't know anyone in this thread who stated Marbury is going to the Hall of Fame. Dude lost like 8-9 times in a hour by changing subjects. I feel bad doing this, this should be illegal; brain rape.
nyk_nyk, aren't you the same herb who hails Crawford's one game and proclaiming him a good shooter because of one game? But you can't hail Marbury for playing good defense throughout the season? Your ignorance continues to amaze everyone. Marbury >>> Fisher, no comparision. Playing with Kobe and Shaq isn't that hard.
Wrong again. I didn't mention the 52 point game to prove he can shoot. If you ask any player in the NBA they will tell you that scoring 50 is damn difficult so if in fact Crawford is as whack as you make him out to be then he could have never accomplished that feat. I guess you didn't get it the first time.
This fool cant even quote the right way and he said Miami is a good team defensively. Crawford had a once in a lifetime lucky night against Wade who is a poor defender.
What your sayin about the media is somewhat true but once a player gets a bad rep its hard to get rid of it. I dont believe im the niave one (im glad to see you know how to spell). A quick look at stats is not conclusive enough for me, I look into things. All of the teams that Marbury played for got better after he left for a reason other then Marbury leaving:
Twolves-KG bein 1 year older, thats what most young players do they get better from one year to the next
Nets-Kmart was a rookie when Marbury played the acquistion of RJ
Suns-Amare Stoudamire was in his 2nd season when Marbury got traded.
It can just as easily be argued that had Marbury stayed on any of these teams they would have been better the following year anyways. The media rubs that shit in all the time, how every team got better after Marbury left and you are niave because you listen to them instead of looking into things and forming your own opinions.
You just proved to me that you didnt watch the Knicks last year by saying marburys defense was inconsistent. I shouldnt even be responding to someone who doesnt watch the Knicks.
It happens every time and yet it has nothing to do with Steph? Why is it never his fault bro?
His defense was greatly improved but still inconsistent at times. You brought Ray Allen up earlier, Allen killed the Knicks at that game in the Garden last year. Remember? The one where Steph missed the foul shot.
When did I call Marbury a hall of famer, and when did i say kidd isnt a hall of famer? NOw your really losin it man this shits been over. The only thing I can do is speculate with marbury and say if he was on the right team he couldve been a hall of famer. I think hes got the talent but thats sumthin we'll never know.
When did this go from The Nets vs the Knicks in the playoffs to who's a hall of famer? You changed the subject you were sayin that Kidd owned Marbury in the playoffs and I proved you wrong. Accept the loss and find another forum to join, the only thing good about you is your name. The big kiss i got from your mother last night told me that I won this arguement, even she told me that I won.
Marbury has great talent I never disputed that. the reason why I brought up the hall of fame was to further illustrate how a comparison under any circumstances between Kidd and Marbury is silly.
You proved nothing man you just copied and pasted numbers. Bottom line Kidd's team 4 Marbury's team 0. In my book losing to your adversary like that in such a humiliating fashion is getting owned.
Thanx for the mother joke by the way I'd try to think of a comeback but I'm fresh out of 'why did the chicken cross the road' one liners.
nyk_nyk, aren't you the same herb who hails Crawford's one game and proclaiming him a good shooter because of one game? But you can't hail Marbury for playing good defense throughout the season? Your ignorance continues to amaze everyone. Marbury >>> Fisher, no comparision. Playing with Kobe and Shaq isn't that hard.
This fool cant even quote the right way and he said Miami is a good team defensively. Crawford had a once in a lifetime lucky night against Wade who is a poor defender.
Anyone who uses one random game to prove Crawford is a "good" shooter lacks common sense and a lot of pride. Its really stupid to even think about it, but to come here and state it in public is just shameless.
LMAO, now they're come here riding Wade saying he's the best defender in the league because he gets steals and blocks but won't acknowledge his poor footwork one on one. Remember that crazy dude who thought Wade > Lebron defensively?
nyk_nyk, then you didn't say anything to prove that Crawford could shoot(I mean shoot good, everyone in the NBA can shoot the basketball literally). All you brought up was Jamal's 50 point and I was WTF? Is he serious or stupid?
As for Pancakes, you avoided the Baron Davis/Marbury thing, lost it consecutively and now want to argue a point thats been argued and made clear already? Do I have to hold your hand and have you re-read page 3 in this thread? Come on, READ, COMPREHEND and atleast try to have a mutual understanding. I've stated everything that needed to be stated about Davis/Marbury, you didn't reply with crap. MSG33 came down and put the hammer on the debate he had with now, now you want to go back to this? Makes no sense; break down my post then I'll give a listen to what you gotta say about Davis/Marbury. Why are you talking about yourself? You've failed miserably giving answers to certain "things", thats your reputation on here. I'll consider the argument when you could go back to page 3 and break down the BD/SM post.
Marbs has had "bad luck" you might call it. Some say he is a cancer. Some say its the players around him. But its his lack of leadership, and motivation that has made his unsuccess the way it is.
I don't want to get into fights with you guys cause you all are cool. But I got my opinion.
Steph does seem to try hard some nights, but other nights his effort is unexistant, I do blame most of it on Isiaherr. BUT he didn't like whats goin on in NY. Marbs would have asked for a trade a while ago...
You're obviously have a very poor assessment of Marbury's "talent". I'm guessing because you think Davis can dunk and Marbury doesn't means he's more "talented".
Here is what you're wrong about.
Davis gets more steals, but Marbury is a more capable man to man defender.
Davis isn't Kidd or Lebron, the last time he average 5 rebounds was his sophomore year in 2000. He has only had 5-6 triple doubles in his NBA career, check the stats and do your homework next time. I'm not here for your opinion or hate on Marbury, I'm here the facts. I'm not going sit here and say "Marbury equals Davis in my opinion", no, I'm going to post facts that back up that statement. Fuck your opinion and fuck my opinion.
Stop stop stop, you're saying "far" too much to stretch your point that isn't even valid. Marbury at his prime was one of the most explosive players at his position, this was known. Marbury DID IT in more games; where as Baron was limited with poor conditioning(there was a point he was pretty much the fattest PG in the NBA and was the worst PG in the NBA at keeping his body healthy; I'll break that down later in my post).
Lets look at the facts of history.
Baron Davis's season high in points per game 03-04
22.9 ppg 39% Jamal Crawfordish FG% 32% 3PT
582 3pt shots attempted
67% Free Throw %
352 free throw attempts% in 40 minutes
on 3.2 turnovers.
Stephon Marbury's season high in points per game 00-01
23.9 ppg 44%FG
33%3pt
79% FT 458 Free throw attempts in 67 games in 38 minutes
in 2.9 turnovers
The things I bolded signify nothing "explosive" for Baron Davis and stats that prove the fact that Marbury is a penetrator. Marbury had more points, more free throw attempts, less turnovers, and less minutes, and most importantly shooting better from everywhere in the court.
Baron Davis has been a CHUCKER for most of his career. 582 3pt shots attempted is absolutely pathetic along with a 39% FG doing his Jamal Crawford imitation, and your arguement has no base anymore; it shows that you don't know who Baron Davis is. In the last 3 seasons, Davis has attempted 7.1 three point shots per game and only making 32% of them. You can't deny he's a chucker.
Davis could of been a more explosive PG than Marbury but he falls in love with his inaccurate 3pt shot (32% career 3pt shooter) and has put his teams in bad position by chucking them out of games. Marbury is by "far" the superior penatrator, superior in getting to the free throw line and a superior shooter. I rather have Stephon at his prime control the offense than I have some 39% FG and 32% 3pt guy taking 600 three's and only 300 FT attempts along with over 3 turnovers. It really makes no sense to me or anyone in this forum how you could even think Davis is or was a more explosive scorer than Marbury. I'm guessing you think dunk = explosive, kiddy logic.
It makes great sense that durability has to do apart with your talent. You're not born with talent, you develop on throughout your career and IMPROVE. Davis hasn't been consistent in his career because he can't display his talent from being injury prone and not healthy or well conditioned. Thats his fault, like how its Eddy Curry's fault for not fulfing his talent.
Baron Davis haven't played 82 games 2001-02, and he only done that twice as a starter in his career.
Give me a 20 and 8 guy who plays more games and gives more production than an injury prone 17 and 7 guy who gives insufficient production and misses a whole lot of games.
Marbury has had a better career than Baron Davis, no question; but I'm giving Baron Davis credit because he is very talented could of been the best PG in the NBA if he had better conditioning throughout his career. This is his downfall and what set him back a couple of steps.
It takes a lot of work, talent and skill to have a steady consistent and rare special career Marbury has had and the numbers he puts up. 20 and 8 is too good to deny; taking credit from Marbury's talent tags the word ignorant on your head for being a bias hater instead of mutually understanding both men's equality of talent.
You don't know any GM's in the NBA, give me something that could convince me because your opinion won't do a thing except look for more things to correct. Its laughable that you feel your opinion that a bunch of GM's would choose Davis > Marbury at 25 is really random and the most comical thing said by anyone in this thread. Its like a reach, if this was boxing you would of been hit hard with a right cross for reaching and missing. But I'm going for the TKO, so lets compare the two when they were 25.
I believe Davis was 25 in 03-04(his career high season, if you wanna take the season before that his numbers were inferior)
22.9 ppg
39% FG
32% 3PT
582 3pt shots attempted
67% Free Throw %
352 free throw attempts%
in 40 minutes
on 3.2 turnovers.
Marbury's career high season in PPG was also 25, thanks for making this easy for me.
23.9 ppg 44%FG 33%3pt 79% FT 458 Free throw attempts in 67 games in 38 minutes in 2.9 turnovers
Basically Marbury has the advantage in everything, get mad if you want but the facts are the facts. Marbury was a better PG and more efficient player at 25 and for most of his career than Baron Davis, fact.
Stop making excuses for Davis, he has the worst shot selection for a NBA PG when he was playing for the Hornets and was a cancer and the Antonie Walker for that team for a while. Whats the point of having a post up game if you don't use it? Davis takes 7.1 3pt shots a game, excellent impression of Walker/Crawford.
One of the most athletic PG's in the NBA when he was healthy.
