Zach for Jermaine O'Neal?

knicklover said:

There are several articles confirming that the Pacers are in talks with several teams about O'Neal, Isiah is said to love O'Neal, O'Neal is said to be willing to come to NY, and at least one NY player said that he thought O'Neal would be a good fit. So it's not just in my mind.

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No insult to you Knicklover, I wrote the same thing in other Knick Forums and Indiana Forums that Posted this rumor.

Larry Bird knew a year after signing Jermain O'Neal (and Firing Isiah) that O'Neal was poison for the Indiana Lockerroom. Bird tried to work it out with O'Neal by stretching his neck out for just one player after the Detroit Brawl which was J.O'Neal. He even shopped and traded Ron Artest for peremeter shooting Peja to help J.O'Neal. And when that didn't help but make things more unpleasent in the Indiana Lockerroom Bird had to trade Steve Jackson whom was tired of the Indiana organization Pampering to J.O'Neal.
All of this CRAZYNESS in the Indiana organization was done because of the FIRING of Isiah Thomas, and Jermain O'Neal LUV for Isiah & Aquire.
Dolan maybe slow in knowledge of the NBA, but he know that putting J.Oneal in a Knick uniform means keeping Isiah Thomas as a Head Coach & G.M. for another Spoil Brat NBA player J.O'Neal (Marbury).
Plus the most important thing is Larry Bird would RAPE the 14-36 Isiah Thomas Knicks Organization so bad that you would have to FIRE Isiah Thomas within a week of that trade. And No Isiah means Jermain O'Neal is worthless.
Now do you get the point.

Ron Artest could make the Knicks a Better Team with either BUM Bigman still on it Curry or Zach. J.O'Neal is another Isiah selfish player on offense but he does play defense when he is not injured.

Randolph multi dimensional?

abcd said:

I wouldn't mind the trade. However, I think Isiah should also trade Curry and Crawford, if he decides to trade Randolph. I still think the Knicks should keep Randolph, cause he's one of the few guys on the team that isn't 1 dimensional, but if Isiah trades Randolph and then trades Crawford and Curry, it would be a good move.We should've made an offer for Gasol or Artest, but now we will have to settle for O' Neal, who most likely won't play for the Knicks cause A) he's injured B) the Knicks suck C)he's injured and D) you're not allowed to trade an injured player, unless they pass a physical.

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Randolph is not exactly multidimensional either. He's more than most of the knicks but he's not that great. He can't or won't pass, he can't dribble. He has nice midrange jumper and good post up moves, He rebounds but dooesn't play good D.

With respect to every one's opinion, just because you don't like a player doesn't mean that the player doesn't have value. Oneal has been trying to get out of Indy for two years. I think Randolph is a good player and if we get Wallace I could see us keeping Randolph but Oneal is a leader and Randolph is not. Plus Randolph reportedly wants out. If Oneal is to be traded, naturally Indy will want as much as they can get in return. And it's true that Indy had talks with NJ and L.A. but nothing happened. In Randolph Indy trades a 20/10 guy for a 20/10 guy and a few small pieces. Not a bad trade for ether team. I hope all three trades go through. We still need a PG.

Side note: David Lee is expendable. He's a role player! Role Player! Role Player!

Wallace
Oneal
Artest
Crawford
?

donchris said:

With respect to every one's opinion, just because you don't like a player doesn't mean that the player doesn't have value. Oneal has been trying to get out of Indy for two years. I think Randolph is a good player and if we get Wallace I could see us keeping Randolph but Oneal is a leader and Randolph is not. Plus Randolph reportedly wants out. If Oneal is to be traded, naturally Indy will want as much as they can get in return. And it's true that Indy had talks with NJ and L.A. but nothing happened. In Randolph Indy trades a 20/10 guy for a 20/10 guy and a few small pieces. Not a bad trade for ether team. I hope all three trades go through. We still need a PG.

Side note: David Lee is expendable. He's a role player! Role Player! Role Player!

Wallace
Oneal
Artest
Crawford
?

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Damn, you will never learn. Once an Isiahsexual, always an Isiahexual. I've thought you've finally seen the light and understand how and why we got to where we were. Now it just seems you're blinded by Isiah's semen and feces to understand that a stradegy of having two aging over paid no longer all star big men will only continue to keep us on this trend that we're use to. We'll get slightly better, but we'll never to get to where we SHOULD be, an if you can't understand where we SHOULD be and were we SHOULD of been 3 years ago; then give up being a Knick fan and apply for an position as Isiah's sock puppet.

metrocard said:

Damn, you will never learn. Once an Isiahsexual, always an Isiahexual. I've thought you've finally seen the light and understand how and why we got to where we were. Now it just seems you're blinded by Isiah's semen and feces to understand that a stradegy of having two aging over paid no longer all star big men will only continue to keep us on this trend that we're use to. We'll get slightly better, but we'll never to get to where we SHOULD be, an if you can't understand where we SHOULD be and were we SHOULD of been 3 years ago; then give up being a Knick fan and apply for an position as Isiah's sock puppet.

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You need to see a shrink. Why do you feel the need to throw Isiah in every situation? Thomas must have pounded you with out the lube. Why are you so angry? Thomas should be and will be fired at the end of the season. What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

One of the major criticisms of Zach Randolph is he doesn't pass out of double teams and his defense is missing in action. Oneal has a shorter contract then Randolph and is a much better defender. Isn't the Knicks problem defense? Didn't you say numerous times that Isiah doesn't understand this? May be you don't understand this. Oneal is a defending big man and a team player. Those are things that you have admitted we are lacking. What part of this are you not getting? Oneal has a shorter contract then Randolph. We save 17 mil with this trade. How is it not a win win?

donchris said:

You need to see a shrink. Why do you feel the need to throw Isiah in every situation? Thomas must have pounded you with out the lube. Why are you so angry? Thomas should be and will be fired at the end of the season. What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

One of the major criticisms of Zach Randolph is he doesn't pass out of double teams and his defense is missing in action. Oneal has a shorter contract then Randolph and is a much better defender. Isn't the Knicks problem defense? Didn't you say numerous times that Isiah doesn't understand this? May be you don't understand this. Oneal is a defending big man and a team player. Those are things that you have admitted we are lacking. What part of this are you not getting? Oneal has a shorter contract then Randolph. We save 17 mil with this trade. How is it not a win win?

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Don,

There are two ways of planning the future of the Knicks.

One way is to simply make any trade that improves the team. The upside of that is we will have a better team and may make the playoffs next year. The downside is that we are so far from a championship there is almost no way we can trade ourselves into a championship (like LA is trying to do now). All we will do is make it more difficult to get over the top because we won't get any top draft picks and we'll probably accumulate a lot of overpaid players that are past their peak.

Another way is to stink like we do now, let all the bad contracts expire, accumulate top draft picks, try to trade our bad contracts for shorter or expiring contracts, develop the handful of young players with potential we have etc.... The downside of this is that we might suck for awhile more. The upside is that if we draft well and have a lot of cap space we may be able to get a great player and develop the young ones to the point that in 3-4 years we will have a major contender for it all.

IMO, the latter path is superior, but it will require patience and sitting through a lot of losses.

knicklover said:

Don,

There are two ways of thinking about future of the Knicks.

One way is to simply make any trade that improves the team. The upside of that is we will have a better team and may make the playoffs next year. The downside is that we are so far from a championship there is almost no way to trade ourselves into a championship (like LA is trying to do now). All we will do is make it more difficult to get over the top because we won't get any top draft picks and we'll have a lot of players past their peak

Another way is to stink MSG out like we are doing now, let all the bad contracts expire, accumulate top draft picks, try to trade our bad contracts for shorter or expiring contracts, develop the handful of young players with potential we have etc.... The downside of this is that we might suck for awhile more. The upside is that if we draft well and have a lot of cap space we may be able to get a great player ande develop the yound ones to the point that in 3-4 years we will have a major contender for it all.

IMO, the latter path is superior, but it will require patience and sitting through a lot of losses.

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I totally understand your point and I agree. My point is what is the difference between having several bad contract or trading several of them for a single bad contract? Does the trade make us any worse off? In fact we improve defensively. No doubt, we should make conservative trades but this is NY we're talking about. Money is no object here. Realistically we need to make a few minor tweaks to help us limp along until those contracts expire. Would you rather have the atrocious contract of Zach Randolph who does not help us defensively and isn't expiring anytime soon, Jarid Jeffries, Jerome James or have a pretty hefty contract of J. Oneal who is still productive? Can we at least agree that Oneal is probably going to be traded some where and he will make the team that he goes to better? Or do only contenders have good players? Since Wallace and Oneal are on poor teams does his now mean that they are poor over the hill players? I suppose then Oakafor is a wash.

donchris said:

You need to see a shrink. Why do you feel the need to throw Isiah in every situation? Thomas must have pounded you with out the lube. Why are you so angry? Thomas should be and will be fired at the end of the season. What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

One of the major criticisms of Zach Randolph is he doesn't pass out of double teams and his defense is missing in action. Oneal has a shorter contract then Randolph and is a much better defender. Isn't the Knicks problem defense? Didn't you say numerous times that Isiah doesn't understand this? May be you don't understand this. Oneal is a defending big man and a team player. Those are things that you have admitted we are lacking. What part of this are you not getting? Oneal has a shorter contract then Randolph. We save 17 mil with this trade. How is it not a win win?

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I understand that, but the best thing to do right now is not make trades like this. They're not necessary trades. We're in no position of winning right now. A team who's in position of winning could use a JO or a Ben Wallace.

We need to REBUILD, understand?

metrocard said:

I understand that, but the best thing to do right now is not make trades like this. They're not necessary trades. We're in no position of winning right now. A team who's in position of winning could use a JO or a Ben Wallace.

We need to REBUILD, understand?

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Yes Metro you're absolutely right.Those are unnecessary trades.However,getting back to the myth of getting under the salary cap only 4 All-stars in the last 11 years have moved to teams under the cap.And 40 were moved in trades.Yep,that's right only 4 in the last 11yrs.So your position on getting under the cap is moot in my book.Getting a GM that other GM's wouldn't mind trading with would be a better solution.Someone that could actually move the bad contracts of Curry,Randolph,Crawford,Richardson and J.James for expiring contracts and draft picks.Now that would be something.The Atlanta Hawks have been 10-14 mill under the cap for the last 5 years.Where is there championship?? Are they a playoff contender? Hell No! The Sixers need a SG and an inside scorer and they're under the cap with a former Nets GM. Unfortunately those bums actually have a better chance.

George M. said:

Yes Metro you're absolutely right.Those are unnecessary trades.However,getting back to the myth of getting under the salary cap only 4 All-stars in the last 11 years have moved to teams under the cap.And 40 were moved in trades.Yep,that's right only 4 in the last 11yrs.So your position on getting under the cap is moot in my book.Getting a GM that other GM's wouldn't mind trading with would be a better solution.Someone that could actually move the bad contracts of Curry,Randolph,Crawford,Richardson and J.James for expiring contracts and draft picks.Now that would be something.The Atlanta Hawks have been 10-14 mill under the cap for the last 5 years.Where is there championship?? Are they a playoff contender? Hell No! The Sixers need a SG and an inside scorer and they're under the cap with a former Nets GM. Unfortunately those bums actually have a better chance.

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Teams improve by making trades and losing and hoping to get a good draft pick. I don't buy this stuff about GMs don't like Thomas. If we present a good trade proposal it has just as good of a chance to go through as any one else's. We don't need to rebuild and if we did who would we rebuild around? David Lee? Rebuilding means gutting the team. We don't need that. We need to make a few key moves, we need a pg and we need to break up the front court. We need to undo a lot of the stuff that Thomas did. But we still need to make improvements and not just give up and hope some magic happens in 2010. If we did that then we'd be the Hawks.

donchris said:

Teams improve by making trades and losing and hoping to get a good draft pick. I don't buy this stuff about GMs don't like Thomas. If we present a good trade proposal it has just as good of a chance to go through as any one else's. We don't need to rebuild and if we did who would we rebuild around? David Lee? Rebuilding means gutting the team. We don't need that. We need to make a few key moves, we need a pg and we need to break up the front court. We need to undo a lot of the stuff that Thomas did. But we still need to make improvements and not just give up and hope some magic happens in 2010. If we did that then we'd be the Hawks.

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Yes donchris you're right but the fact remains in my mind is if the Knicks don't make a move by the deadline Thomas is gone which I'm good with.It's the guy that replaces him I'm worried about.Dolan better make sure that it's not Vandeweghe cause he's not as sharp as some percieve him to be(Kenyon Martin and his gimpy knees at what 84 million)Yeah,a real sharp cookie that guy.I would only want someone credible and smart.