GOLD MAC 10 ends Paul vs Williams debate!!!

GetRealistic

Starter
KG is the best, basically because of his body of work. Plus KG is a better defender then Howard. Howard can block shots but KG can guard all 5 positions on the court, and thats just unheard of.

I said this on the game thread, but in 3 years the best young big man in my opinion is going to be Al Jefferson. He's got the most polished offensive game out of all young guys you listed.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
KG is still the best, i dont think this can be debated unless you throw Tim Duncan into the argument.

Defensivly is where the opinions come in, I respect others opinions on this topic. I think good arguments can be made for both Dwight and KG. Get REalistic just dropped a one line argument that beats any argument from pancakes, KGs versatility/ability to guard multiple positions. I think KG is overrated here, sayin he can guard 1 to 5, but at the same time he can do a much better job of trying to guard point guards and shooting guards then any of the other candidates.

I do think when guards break down the defense and look to attack the hoop, Howard is a better intimidator then KG. Rebounding is also part of defense, Howard is a better rebounder then KG. I dont think theres any facts here, its all opinion.

Facts
Marbury = best player on Knicks
Chris Paul>>>Deron Williams
EC House Special = worst poster

Opinion
Arguing about whos the best out of these 3: Kobe, Lebron, and Chris Paul.
 
Fuckin idiot, "Bosh Destroyed Howard"

Bosh-40pts,5rbs
Howard-37pts,15rbs

Bosh scored 3 more points, big deal. Howard grabbed 10 more rebounds.

I'm the fucking idiot??? Do you know how to read MSG? "Bosh destroyed Howard" was not something I said, it was a quote from Stan Van Gundy. So I guess you know more about basketball, the Orlando Magic and Dwight Howard then Stan Van Gundy. Silly Me. You need to stop focusing on stats because numbers can be very misleading.

Yeah it is a big deal bro, the game between Toronto and Orlando was a blowout game from start to finish and if you look closely most of Howard's numbers were put up in the latter stages of the third quarter and the fourth during extensive garbage time as the Magic weakly attempted a comeback. Here are Van Gundy's thoughts about that...
?Those kinds of runs happen all the time in the NBA,? he said. ?All (Mitchell) did was put Calderon and Bosh back in and game over.?

Again let go of your stats pointing out the blocked shots, if his 'slump' was just ten days there is no way Stan Van Gundy would rip his superstar player like that. Only terrible coaches like Isiah Thomas do that a la what he did to Steph after the first 5 games of the season. It's not a 'slump' Howard is inconsistent defensively and his coach called him out on it.

Furthermore our debate was about Kevin Garnett and Dwight Howard as defensive players because somehow you think that Howard is in the same class defensively as KG.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
I'm the fucking idiot??? Do you know how to read MSG? "Bosh destroyed Howard" was not something I said, it was a quote from Stan Van Gundy. So I guess you know more about basketball, the Orlando Magic and Dwight Howard then Stan Van Gundy. Silly Me. You need to stop focusing on stats because numbers can be very misleading.

I forgot to delete that, I realized after I read that from the quote but history shows im a much better reader then you.

lol @ you actin like i only rely on stats, like I mentioned before guards are more hesitant to take it at Howard then KG, im not sayin they dont hesitate when KG is down low but Howards a better shot blocker.

Yeah it is a big deal bro, the game between Toronto and Orlando was a blowout game from start to finish and if you look closely most of Howard's numbers were put up in the latter stages of the third quarter and the fourth during extensive garbage time as the Magic weakly attempted a comeback. Here are Van Gundy's thoughts about that...
?Those kinds of runs happen all the time in the NBA,? he said. ?All (Mitchell) did was put Calderon and Bosh back in and game over.?

Again let go of your stats pointing out the blocked shots, if his 'slump' was just ten days there is no way Stan Van Gundy would rip his superstar player like that. Only terrible coaches like Isiah Thomas do that a la what he did to Steph after the first 5 games of the season. It's not a 'slump' Howard is inconsistent defensively and his coach called him out on it.

Furthermore our debate was about Kevin Garnett and Dwight Howard as defensive players because somehow you think that Howard is in the same class defensively as KG.

His slump started the beginning of February as I stated

MAgic finished January winning 5 out of 6
Howard had 21 blocks in the 6 games (3.5bpg)

Other then Howards blocks, his points and rebounds are similar to his season averages, as I said the slump was from Feb. 1 to Feb. 11, dont question me.

Howard is not inconsistent on defense, he had a 10 day slump, which according to you makes Stan Van Gundy a bad coach.

Kevin Garnett is a greater team defender then Howard
Howard is a better intimidator

(Rebounding and blocking shots are part of defense)

Its very close, it can go either way; Keep tryin, someday you'll get that 1st win. Why dont you check on these things first? Stats are very important in observations, as well as what is observed by watching. Im lethal with both, your another victim of the Mac 10. Im the stat King but I bring more then just stats, stop frontin.

Find a new forum to join, fuck outta here
 
His slump started the beginning of February as I stated

MAgic finished January winning 5 out of 6
Howard had 21 blocks in the 6 games (3.5bpg)

Other then Howards blocks, his points and rebounds are similar to his season averages, as I said the slump was from Feb. 1 to Feb. 11, dont question me.

Howard is not inconsistent on defense, he had a 10 day slump, which according to you makes Stan Van Gundy a bad coach.

What are you talking about??? Howard himself as I posted earlier admitted that he's inconsistent with his defensive effort and needs to improve his focus and effort.

More quotes from Coach Van Gundy

"His focus is on the offensive end," Van Gundy said. "He gets discouraged when he doesn't get the ball. I think the numbers prove that what we need him to focus on to win is defensive rebounding, but that's not what he wants to do right now and we've got a little bit of a conflict."

'When you're a great player and a franchise guy, there's more on you. He's got to accept it,' Van Gundy said Tuesday after the club's practice. 'He may not like it. He may not like the way I did it. But I've also done it before many times in private --- just he and I. I didn't think it was making an impact, so now it's out there for everybody. We'll see what happens.'

'I think Dwight wants to be a great player. I think Dwight wants to be a winner. But we're in Year 4 and he hasn't won a playoff game.'

Something tells me if Stan Van Gundy was coaching KG he wouldn't be calling him out like this.

Kevin Garnett is a greater team defender then Howard
Howard is a better intimidator

(Rebounding and blocking shots are part of defense)

You're funny you speak as if KG rebounds and block shots like Eddy Curry. Garnett in the past has led the NBA in rebounding and been amongst the league leaders in block shots for most of his career. KG is equally good as a rebounder and even though he's not better at blocking shots, he is more consistent.

Again this is another example of how you just can't trust numbers, it is considered that Kevin Garnett is having the best defensive year of his career but if you look his rebounding and block shot numbers are down from years past.

Where Howard has the edge on KG is on the offensive end where he is a more dominant force now, at this early stage of his career, then Garnett ever was.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
What are you talking about??? Howard himself as I posted earlier admitted that he's inconsistent with his defensive effort and needs to improve his focus and effort.

More quotes from Coach Van Gundy

"His focus is on the offensive end," Van Gundy said. "He gets discouraged when he doesn't get the ball. I think the numbers prove that what we need him to focus on to win is defensive rebounding, but that's not what he wants to do right now and we've got a little bit of a conflict."

'When you're a great player and a franchise guy, there's more on you. He's got to accept it,' Van Gundy said Tuesday after the club's practice. 'He may not like it. He may not like the way I did it. But I've also done it before many times in private --- just he and I. I didn't think it was making an impact, so now it's out there for everybody. We'll see what happens.'

'I think Dwight wants to be a great player. I think Dwight wants to be a winner. But we're in Year 4 and he hasn't won a playoff game.'

Something tells me if Stan Van Gundy was coaching KG he wouldn't be calling him out like this.



You're funny you speak as if KG rebounds and block shots like Eddy Curry. Garnett in the past has led the NBA in rebounding and been amongst the league leaders in block shots for most of his career. KG is equally good as a rebounder and even though he's not better at blocking shots, he is more consistent.

Again this is another example of how you just can't trust numbers, it is considered that Kevin Garnett is having the best defensive year of his career but if you look his rebounding and block shot numbers are down from years past.

Where Howard has the edge on KG is on the offensive end where he is a more dominant force now, at this early stage of his career, then Garnett ever was.

Dwight Howard is still young and improving, Van Gundy is pushing him to get the most out of him. Garnett is a 32, it was stupid of you to bring up that his coach doesnt get on him, no shit. As good as Howard already is, hes still gettin better.

Dwight Howard in his 4th season is averaging more blocks then Garnett ever did.

Dwight-2.4 blocks per game

Garnett had only 2 seasons where he averaged above 2 blocks per game. In his second season, he averaged 2.1 blocks and in 2003-04 he averaged 2.2 blocks.

Once again, Dwight Howard, only in his 4th season is averaging more rebounds the KG ever did.

Howard-14.6rpg
Garnett-13.9rpg (2003-04)

I took into consideration that Gay G's stats are lower then they would be if he was still with Minnesota.

The fact that KG never averaged the number of rebounds and blocks that Dwight Howard is averaging in his 4th season, is a good argument as to why Howard is an equal/better defender.

Dwight is obviously a star, having a great season. The way Van Gundy described Howard sounds like hes exagerating, trying to motivate Dwight to continue to elevate his game, which he will.

KG is statistically not as good of a defender as Dwight, but a good argument can be made for him as well. He has helped make the Celtics into the best defensive team in the league, and they do it by playing as a team, not with stats. Does KG have more help defensivley, then Dwight?

Yes, since Kendrick Perkins came into the league I saw potential in him to become a good defender. Paul Pierce is also an above average defender. Ray Allen in the past has been known as a weak defender but even hes stepped it up. Rondo is a "stats" defender, he gets his steals but he gets beat off the dribble by other point guards. I hate to admit this, but Rondo is improving.

Would the Celtics still have the best defense if they had Dwight Howard instead of KG?

I think so, but theres no way to prove this either way.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
lol I tried to spare you another loss by sayin Dwight and KG were about even, but your stubborness resulted in yet another L. At this point I feel bad, you been thrown and kicked around the forum. Fact is theres good arguements either way, its really a matter of opinion. Dont worry, those wounds from the Gold MAC 10 will heal up eventually. Get some ice on them, that will reduce the swelling.
 
lol I tried to spare you another loss by sayin Dwight and KG were about even, but your stubborness resulted in yet another L. At this point I feel bad, you been thrown and kicked around the forum. Fact is theres good arguements either way, its really a matter of opinion. Dont worry, those wounds from the Gold MAC 10 will heal up eventually. Get some ice on them, that will reduce the swelling.

First of all the reason you think you never lose an argument is because you can never admit that you're wrong. Just because you say you haven't lost doesn't make it true. KG is better then Dwight Howard defensively and that is clear as day to anybody that watches NBA basketball.

What can I say MSG? If you really think that Dwight Howard is as good as KG defensively I can't help you. If this was 500 years ago you'd still be arguing that the world is flat when it was already proven to be round. Someday maybe Howard will reach his defensive potential but today is not that day.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
First of all the reason you think you never lose an argument is because you can never admit that you're wrong. Just because you say you haven't lost doesn't make it true. KG is better then Dwight Howard defensively and that is clear as day to anybody that watches NBA basketball.

What can I say MSG? If you really think that Dwight Howard is as good as KG defensively I can't help you. If this was 500 years ago you'd still be arguing that the world is flat when it was already proven to be round. Someday maybe Howard will reach his defensive potential but today is not that day.

Im suprised I forgot a couple of arguments for Dwight Howard, but i dont care to keep this goin. I came with enough facts to support my argument. I dont think I lost an argument since I came on here, everything I say is backed up with enough stats/analysis to make it respectable. If you dont agree, I dont know what to tell you. I cant remember you ever admitting to losing an argument.
 
I cant remember you ever admitting to losing an argument.

Because I haven't. We've had four arguments here...

1) Marbury vs Baron Davis ...you and metro believe you won this one but you didn't ...but i've learned since that arguing, about marbury with ya'll is not worth it

2) Josh Smith a risk to sign to a huge contract ...again you guys claim you won but you didnt prove me wrong in anyway

3) Deron Williams vs Chris Paul ...this is one that someday i may be wrong about however thus far Williams has had a better NBA career... all I've ever said about Paul is that he needs to prove it

4) Kevin Garnett's defense vs Dwight Howard's defense ...KG is a much better team and one on one defender despite Howard being a better shot blocker which you could even question because one of the reasons garnett doesnt get as many blocks as he used to is because players dont challenge him as much... I would argue using game film not stats that Garnett is the more feared defending the lane presence
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
Because I haven't. We've had four arguments here...

1) Marbury vs Baron Davis ...you and metro believe you won this one but you didn't ...but i've learned since that arguing, about marbury with ya'll is not worth it

2) Josh Smith a risk to sign to a huge contract ...again you guys claim you won but you didnt prove me wrong in anyway

3) Deron Williams vs Chris Paul ...this is one that someday i may be wrong about however thus far Williams has had a better NBA career... all I've ever said about Paul is that he needs to prove it

4) Kevin Garnett's defense vs Dwight Howard's defense ...KG is a much better team and one on one defender despite Howard being a better shot blocker which you could even question because one of the reasons garnett doesnt get as many blocks as he used to is because players dont challenge him as much... I would argue using game film not stats that Garnett is the more feared defending the lane presence

I never really cared about the Baron Davis vs Marbury argument, I do feel Marbury is the player but I spent more time tryin to show people that Marbury had his best year last year and that he wasnt gettin the credit deserved, out of all these arguments this is the only one i care about.

I started the Josh Smith argument, but I wasnt even that big of a part of it. I think hes a good small forward to build around, the small forward position is tough and Smiths defense would be very valuable at that position.

Chris Paul>>>Deron Williams, no arguement here.

Flip a coin for Dwight vs KG, everyone makes it seems like 100% of all my arguments are based off stats but I watch the Magic and especially the Celtics, I see KG play all the time.

Im not lookin to argue AS MUCH on here anymore, Im tired of people not given me my credit for providing good support for my arguments. I dont care if people disagree, but im not even gettin respect. It aint worth writin all these paragraphs and gettin all these stats when haters continue to hate, with their unfair/biased opinions. Some posters on here cant even read. This aint all directed at you, but im not lookin 2 get into a new argument every week anymore. When good arguments come up the Mac 10 will come out.
 

metrocard

Legend
First of all the reason you think you never lose an argument is because you can never admit that you're wrong. Just because you say you haven't lost doesn't make it true. KG is better then Dwight Howard defensively and that is clear as day to anybody that watches NBA basketball.

What can I say MSG? If you really think that Dwight Howard is as good as KG defensively I can't help you. If this was 500 years ago you'd still be arguing that the world is flat when it was already proven to be round. Someday maybe Howard will reach his defensive potential but today is not that day.

He isn't wrong you insignificant fatass.

MSG33 brought more solid facts to the table, you brought your worthless opinion.

You're more delusional than Isiah Thomas high off an ounce of ganja, I claimed you as my adopted son in the Marbury/Francis, Josh Smith, Williams/Paul not even debates my nigga, it was a masacare. I normally give people their props when they hold down a strong arguement(Don Chris, Roco, etc), but you're just mad stupid and delusional to make any sense...you just stay losing more than Eminem against the women of his life.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
He isn't wrong you insignificant fatass.

MSG33 brought more solid facts to the table, you brought your worthless opinion.

You're more delusional than Isiah Thomas high off an ounce of ganja, I claimed you as my adopted son in the Marbury/Francis, Josh Smith, Williams/Paul not even debates my nigga, it was a masacare. I normally give people their props when they hold down a strong arguement(Don Chris, Roco, etc), but you're just mad stupid and delusional to make any sense...you just stay losing more than Eminem against the women of his life.

I didnt want 2 rub it in his face but you brought most of the arguments and kimbo sliced him in those debates. I came with some facts as well but those arguments were all over by the time I got to them. EC house special cant admit defeat, its no longer worth arguin with him and other posters like jimmy boy whos even worse, he cant read at all. I just destroyed EC in the CP3 Williams argument, I didnt want to get into another argument again. Like I said before he was stubborn and I had to shut him down. After this im goin to be more selective with who I argue with.
 

metrocard

Legend
I didnt want 2 rub it in his face but you brought most of the arguments and kimbo sliced him in those debates. I came with some facts as well but those arguments were all over by the time I got to them. EC house special cant admit defeat, its no longer worth arguin with him and other posters like jimmy boy whos even worse, he cant read at all. I just destroyed EC in the CP3 Williams argument, I didnt want to get into another argument again. Like I said before he was stubborn and I had to shut him down. After this im goin to be more selective with who I argue with.

We're actually way too nice giving them the time to actually provide them solid information. Whatever, I can't read Pancakes post; too boring. One or two lines at most, after that my eyes get heavy.

The previous debates were very abusive and one sided. Bringing up all the quotes from those debates would be man MEAN and fucked up...I don't feel the need to do that.
 

nyKnicks126

Go 1990s New York Knicks!
How can anyone mess with the elites? MSG33, Metro,126, and GoDLEE42 are unstoppable. We just give the facts!
 
You guys are idiots. If any of you think that Dwight Howard is anywhere near the defensive player that Kevin Garnett or for that matter Tim Duncan is at this point of his career you are lost.
 
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