WTF is happening - Zach/Clips deal turned down

What the hell is wrong with you people? The fact is that Randolph was 17/10 last year, he had a pretty good season, how much more do you want to get out of your PF? Last season was anybody's fault BUT Randolph's, and you guys wanna ship him out for pennies on the dollar. I firmly believe Randolph can help this team. When you get 17 and 10 from your PF you should have the people around him that can make this team a winner. By basis of comparison, KG averaged only 1 point more per game last season, and fewer rebounds per game. Pau Gasol averaged only 1 point more per game, and fewer rebounds as well. These were starting PFs on the two teams playing for the NBA Championship, and their numbers, quite honestly, are comparable to Randolph's.

Randolph is a GOOD player. Is he a leader? No, not at all. But if he has the right personnel around him, he could be an important piece in building a winner. Dumping this guy for the God-awful Tim Thomas sells the entire team short, and doesn't REMOVE any problems (see: Curry and Crawford). We dump Randolph for Thomas and what do we have? Curry (a pain in the ass), Crawford (a pain in the ass) and Tim Thomas (ANOTHER pain in the ass, who is not as good a player as Randolph).

I say pull the trigger on the deal if we can get something good, say Gordon and maybe Livingston (who I'd be willing to take a chance on), but not for pennies on the dollar.

walsh wants eric gordon. plain and simple. and both donnie and mike believe in his system that zach could thrive and then up his trade value. i believe a deal will be done with the clippers if any team. the contract would come right off the books. hopefully the clips and knicks can get on the same page.

Kiyaman said:

Out of the few articles that covered this story none of them mention anything about what was offered for Zach.
Walsh & D'Antoni are looking like idiots right now by letting F/C-Randolph Morris go to the Celtics who has been the big talk in the Celtics summer Bigman training camp. The Knicks frontcourt players are looking weaker everyday as trades are being made in the NBA.
Zach 36 mpg performance has been a liability to every teammate on the court with him.
His rebounds are a non-factor because of his passing game.
His poor offense is a non-factor because he never use his big body to pick off his teammates defender.
Eddy Curry 26 mpg performance is actually better than Zach 20-10 performance that needs all 36 minutes per game.

The Knicks have rejected a proposal from the Clippers to trade power forward Zach Randolph, league sources told SI.com.
Terms of any proposal were not known, but the Clippers have enough salary-cap space to accept Randolph's contract without having to give the Knicks equal salaries in return. The Clippers, seeking to replace the departed Elton Brand, were trying to take Randolph off the Knicks' hands while offering little more than cap relief to New York, the sources said. Randolph will make $14.7 million next season, and he has three years and $48 million left on his contract.
While the Knicks are known to be interested in clearing cap space by 2010 to make a run at LeBron James or other potential free agents, the sources said New York wanted more than simple cap relief in exchange for Randolph. The Knicks appear to believe that Randolph will provide a highly productive season under new coach Mike D'Antoni, which could raise his value much higher than it is today. That's why the Knicks were not interested in nearly giving away Randolph's contract, according to the sources.
Other options for the Clippers would include pursuing Hawks power forward Josh Smith or Bobcats power forward Emeka Okafor, but because both are restricted free agents, their respective teams can match any offer.

I said it when he was hired and I will say it again "Walsh is an idiot" that will be worst than Isiah and Layden.

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Kiyaman you are just straight up ridiculous.Absolutely nuts.

New New York said:

As you all know I was the most outraged by this news yesterday unitl I heard what the Clips offered us!

Dig this....They wanted to trade Zach for a second round draft pick! Not a first but a second! This was to be a straight up move with no other players involved. Now to me this was The Clippers trying to see how desperate we are to rid ourselves of Zach, and even as bad as I want to see him gone, that deal would've been just plain dumb for us.

But with The Clips coming in so low, it would lead me to believe that this really is just preliminary talks and more is expected. I think Donnie will budge off of Eric Gordon, but he isnt gonna just give Zach away.

But I am intrigued by the notion of not taking back a contract at all in this scenerio, but it better be for first rounder that is top 3 protected one year, and unprotected another or NO DEAL!

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what was your source? news writers dont know yet whtat the Clips offered..News on what Walsh wanted so far it was just Eric Gordon and guys that have contracts that dont go past 2010...the Clips prob wanted to dump a guy with a long contract...Walsh doesnt want to get long contracts and still manage to get Gordon, yet i dont think he can get Gordon.

Check this out, this is what happened ya'll (source: the creepy)

Baylor and Sterling find out Knicks and Warriors are talking (ya'll already know Mullin and Walsh are tight). So, Donnie tells Mully to go **** himself cause he wants the Cock along with ZBo and Jamal in exchange for a shitload of long terms. Brainiac over in LA (only guy to challenge JD for the most dazed and confused sports franchise owner in history) says to poor Elgin "so if they don't like them longterms, go and ask them if theyd send us Zach for our expirings".

Zbo 20/10 guy,can't give him away, although we need that cap space. I'm confident Walsh has Zbo being pitched in another deal and he aint gonna risk that one (now this one is totally out of the blue... could that be Brand?)

yeah right.... enough blabbering.

PS: George M.... Zbo defense? oh God hell no, jajajajja, that shit was funny, Im still laughing.

There aren;t too many forwards with the offensive skill of Randolph

I would love gordon in this team, absolutely love him playing the 2.

That means we could get rid of Crawford for someone like Wally who is expiring.

marbs
gordon
wally
lee
cury

with

nate
gall
balkman

the next three

No defense

theknicks3 said:

There aren;t too many forwards with the offensive skill of Randolph

I would love gordon in this team, absolutely love him playing the 2.

That means we could get rid of Crawford for someone like Wally who is expiring.

marbs
gordon
wally
lee
cury

with

nate
gall
balkman

the next three

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alsolutely no way to stop a team defensively..wally is a solid backup...id start Chandler over him even Q Rich as long as their healty they play decent defesne...wally cant...Lee really cant...Curry cant...Gordon we dont know prob not cuz hes a rook, and Marbs decent...so one decent defender in that lineup and you want to trade Crawford for Wally and Zach for Gordon? I dont disagree with it i like it but your starting lineup is weake defensively and I'd rather have Nate or Duhon start PG and Steph start SG.
Duhon/Nate
Marbury/Gordon
Chandler/Wally
Lee/Gallo
Curry/Jeffries

Duhon is a good defender...Marbury has experience...Chandler can play decent D...Lee needs work and Curry we know already.

Paul1355 said:

alsolutely no way to stop a team defensively..wally is a solid backup...id start Chandler over him even Q Rich as long as their healty they play decent defesne...wally cant...Lee really cant...Curry cant...Gordon we dont know prob not cuz hes a rook, and Marbs decent...so one decent defender in that lineup and you want to trade Crawford for Wally and Zach for Gordon? I dont disagree with it i like it but your starting lineup is weake defensively and I'd rather have Nate or Duhon start PG and Steph start SG.
Duhon/Nate
Marbury/Gordon
Chandler/Wally
Lee/Gallo
Curry/Jeffries

Duhon is a good defender...Marbury has experience...Chandler can play decent D...Lee needs work and Curry we know already.

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some good points, I really find it amazing the knicks focus for the last three years hasn't been finding a defensive big man.

I'd also like to start marbury at the 2, but cop it from some members for suggesting it.

Nate can't hold a starting pg spot down though I think, and duhon doesn't attack enough imo but is good at finding the opening man.

I wish we had put Balkman and Nate on the wire, and tried to get a last first pick where we could have got Robin Lopez etc..

Please no more Wally posts........... We have Gallo , Chandler and Jeffries at SF and Im happy with that!

As far as Gordon goes he just signed so can not be traded for 3 months so you could STOP dreaming that dream! :update::update::update:

If we are to make the deal with the Clipps who want to win now we can get a first rounder and either Tim Thomas ( Played real good for D'Antoni) or Mobley both contracts end before the 2010 season and a first round pick.( Winning teams should not care that much with their later picks right?)

Hope Donnie gets what he is looking for and I hope its a First rounder!!!:gony:

theknicks3 said:

some good points, I really find it amazing the knicks focus for the last three years hasn't been finding a defensive big man.

I'd also like to start marbury at the 2, but cop it from some members for suggesting it.

Nate can't hold a starting pg spot down though I think, and duhon doesn't attack enough imo but is good at finding the opening man.

I wish we had put Balkman and Nate on the wire, and tried to get a last first pick where we could have got Robin Lopez etc..

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agreed on trading balkman for a 1st rounder like Brook Lopez we needed height and especially a Center he would have been a perfect pick...getting Gallo and Lopez..good draft

umynot said:

Please no more Wally posts........... We have Gallo , Chandler and Jeffries at SF and Im happy with that!

As far as Gordon goes he just signed so can not be traded for 3 months so you could STOP dreaming that dream! :update::update::update:

If we are to make the deal with the Clipps who want to win now we can get a first rounder and either Tim Thomas ( Played real good for D'Antoni) or Mobley both contracts end before the 2010 season and a first round pick.( Winning teams should not care that much with their later picks right?)

Hope Donnie gets what he is looking for and I hope its a First rounder!!!:gony:

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We arent getting Tim THomas he's useless to us we would rather need a SG so Mobley would do but its still not good enough for Zach

Eric Gordon is going to be special, don't blame the Clips for wanting to keep him. You guys want to dump Curry/Randolph, how about a Kaman for Curry/Randolph trade. Knicks get a young up and coming center and dump 2 of Zekes mistakes.

Paul1355 said:

We arent getting Tim THomas he's useless to us we would rather need a SG so Mobley would do but its still not good enough for Zach

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We trade Zach we need a SG back? How do you figure that? We have Crawford , Nate , Marbury Q Rich and Chandler can play there in D'Antoni's system! Mobley would get 10 min maybe! And he was hurt last year!

Thomas makes more sense he played PF/SF for D'Antoni in Phoenix and cost 7 mil this and next year. He could come off the bench and we can start Lee! Gallo is still growing and is sure to see minutes at PF when we go small too!
Coach says he looks foward to seeing Gallo and Chandler on the floor together!! So Thomas is not a bad asset to help till they get adjusted to the coaches game!

umynot said:

We trade Zach we need a SG back? How do you figure that? We have Crawford , Nate , Marbury Q Rich and Chandler can play there in D'Antoni's system! Mobley would get 10 min maybe! And he was hurt last year!

Thomas makes more sense he played PF/SF for D'Antoni in Phoenix and cost 7 mil this and next year. He could come off the bench and we can start Lee! Gallo is still growing and is sure to see minutes at PF when we go small too!
Coach says he looks foward to seeing Gallo and Chandler on the floor together!! So Thomas is not a bad asset to help till they get adjusted to the coaches game!

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umynot, did height ever occur to you?...Nate as a SG??? you nuts?? he's 5'9!And the slow back surgery Q Rich? hows he gonna defend fast guards???
Look up the Knicks roster pal, we are loaded with Forwards like Tim Thomas. The only SG we have is Crawford and if he goes Marbury is the only alternative...Chandler is a Small Forward and so is Q Rich and by the way Q cant play SG he's a pure SF. And if Thomas became a PF what about Lee and Gallo? And Q Rich and Chandler? you gonna play Tim Thomas over those guys? Come on umynot I'd play Zach over all of them but i'd rather trade him and lose his salary for a need which is either a Center or a SG..and i doubt they'll give up Chris Kaman.

Paul1355 said:

umynot, did height ever occur to you?...Nate as a SG??? you nuts?? he's 5'9!And the slow back surgery Q Rich? hows he gonna defend fast guards???
Look up the Knicks roster pal, we are loaded with Forwards like Tim Thomas. The only SG we have is Crawford and if he goes Marbury is the only alternative...Chandler is a Small Forward and so is Q Rich and by the way Q cant play SG he's a pure SF. And if Thomas became a PF what about Lee and Gallo? And Q Rich and Chandler? you gonna play Tim Thomas over those guys? Come on umynot I'd play Zach over all of them but i'd rather trade him and lose his salary for a need which is either a Center or a SG..and i doubt they'll give up Chris Kaman.

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I did not say Thomas over Lee or Gallo nor that he is needed at all playa!!!

He makes 7 mil a year and we are trading our PF so it makes sense to take someone who can play PF back! If we can get a first rounder he is a perfect piece to take back!! He played great in this system already!! Zach is better no doubt but he has to go! He wont run enough for us and his contract goes to 2011 and thats not part of the plans!


In D'Antoni system Nate and Marbs will both see minutes at SG !!

Mobley costs more and WAS HURT LAST YEAR!!!!!!

KBlack25 said:

What the hell is wrong with you people? The fact is that Randolph was 17/10 last year, he had a pretty good season, how much more do you want to get out of your PF? Last season was anybody's fault BUT Randolph's, and you guys wanna ship him out for pennies on the dollar. I firmly believe Randolph can help this team. When you get 17 and 10 from your PF you should have the people around him that can make this team a winner. By basis of comparison, KG averaged only 1 point more per game last season, and fewer rebounds per game. Pau Gasol averaged only 1 point more per game, and fewer rebounds as well. These were starting PFs on the two teams playing for the NBA Championship, and their numbers, quite honestly, are comparable to Randolph's.

Randolph is a GOOD player. Is he a leader? No, not at all. But if he has the right personnel around him, he could be an important piece in building a winner. Dumping this guy for the God-awful Tim Thomas sells the entire team short, and doesn't REMOVE any problems (see: Curry and Crawford). We dump Randolph for Thomas and what do we have? Curry (a pain in the ass), Crawford (a pain in the ass) and Tim Thomas (ANOTHER pain in the ass, who is not as good a player as Randolph).

I say pull the trigger on the deal if we can get something good, say Gordon and maybe Livingston (who I'd be willing to take a chance on), but not for pennies on the dollar.

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I would have pulled the trigger on the first offer for Randolph. As long as we get back short-term or expiring contracts in return, I'm not really concerned about getting equal talent for him. He's just not worth it. Hell, even asking for a first round pick, top 5 or 10 is unrealistic. He's just not worth that price or else Portland wouldn't have given him to us for practically nothing. Portland couldn't get rid of him fast enough. Just because the Clippers are desperate doesn't mean they are as stupid as Isiah.

i'm with patience on this one... donnie didn't move on artest for months... but then failed to re-sign peja... so i know he can get value... at least the temporary kind...

nobody knows what the clips have offered... so let's wait... there's always bullshyte rumors in the summer... artest... garnet... kobe... let's just chill... i also believe zach can turn it around for coach d... the thing with these guys is... their all headcases... d'antoni is a player's coach... he can work with all these sensitive thugs we have... when did steph stop being productive? when larry brown attacked him in the press... then when IT attacked him 3 games into the year... when did EC stop trying to improve? when he no longer had the space/opportunity to get comfortable and attack in IT's system... zach... crawford and nate never stopped trying... neither did lee or balkman... these guys were mad productive when IT was praising them... not excusing these guys' shitty play as professional athletes... but last season was a stressful one with the case and IT's status... if you're feeble minded already? you're likely to cave under pressure... it busts pipes and all...

anyway... a proposed starting five of:

duhon steph chandler/gallo randolph curry

crawford, nate, lee, gallo/chandler

jeffries, richardson...

look what he did with barbosa/diaw/thomas in pho off the bench... who the f*** was raja bell before d'antoni (and don't tell me about his days in dallas, he wasn't nearly as effective)? imagine a second unit of nate, crawford, chandler, gallo, lee running teams down... you got four shooters and three rebounders more than capable of running the 7 seconds or less system... changing the tempo from the more methodical starting five... we won't win a lot... but guys will have good seasons because... shyte... that's what d'antoni does for guys... if not for lemony snicket syndrome (a series of unfortunate events) pho woulda prolly raised a banner or two by now... we may win 37 - 41 games and possibly make the playoffs in the east... more likely not though...

almost forgot... since guys will get better numbers... their trade value will go up as well... so holding on to randolph might force LA to give us gordon since he won't shine without a team around him in the west anyway...

Why the hell should Curry start? He's one of the worst passers in the NBA. He's the least fittable guy we could find in the NBA on this team. Atleast Shaq can pass the ball. Curry is as stagnant on offense as Crawford and Randolph.

I rather let Lee play center. Lee and Amare are about the same height, so Lee can play center in D'Antoni's system. He can pass(outlet and half court), excellent offensive awareness, he can run the floor, rebound at an elite rate, his jumpshot is very underrated, he's a good FT shooter, strong body that can get to the free throw line and finish around the basket with BOTH hands. David Lee has it all. If he was a shot blocker, we would really value this guy alot. Lee in this system could really have a career year, similar to Boozer when he left Cleveland's system for Utah's.

Put Gallo @ the 4, and Chandler at the 3. Similar to Marion/Diaw, but these guys are bigger, no 'mo. Gallo has range and likes to slash to the basket, as well as Chandler. Having a big man who can pass the ball would be awesome. Gallo and Lee would create a lot of opportunities for this team.

Our back court is a problem.


We need a legit SG, and Crawford isn't that guy. I want a more consistent shooter/defense who doesn't turn the ball over much, someone like Anthony Parker, Raja Bell or Francisco Garcia.

At PG, we need a penetrator and creator. That would be Marbury. We need offense with a raw Chandler and Gallo, and Lee is only good for 10-15 points.

Marbury can add 18 and 8 and produce alot, also make the game easier for our young guys.

Our bench isn't that bad at all either.
Duhon
Robinson
Balkman

Thats a solid 8 man rotation.

Unlike Isiah, D'Antoni doesn't like to go deep in his bench. He uses 8 guys consistantly throughout the season.

Throughout preseason we'll find out who those 8 guys will be.

i wasn't projecting trades with that squad... but i see your point... i did read that d'antoni was renoun in italy for adapting his style to his team though... and the thought of a thunder/lighting rotation combo (with the second unit getting the majority of the playing time) would wear a lot of teams down... your unit would be exciting to watch... but from what i've read/heard... d'antoni isn't high on lee (that's why he traded him)... and one of the KNOCKS against d'antoni was his 8 man rotation... cuz his bench wasn't that deep later in his tenure... wasn't his fault the team didn't draft talent though... so i'm saying he might have used an 8 man system cuz that's the team they gave him... we have enough talent that might thrive with him... put up decent numbers that we get more value in return for them... why get diddly shit for curry now when we have 2 years to move him... let him audition for d'antoni while walsh is still evaluating things... unless we get a proposal that accomplishes both goals of improving and dumping cap...