Christianity in 30 Seconds

Why is this so hard for you to understand? GOD only has the wisdom we attribute to him. PERIOD.

So for once, explain how whoever the Human writer that attributed Godly wisdom knew that Ancient Babylon would become a desolate waste?

You do a lot of talking as if you're the world's more foremost intellect, and for some reason, I have not gotten a direct answer concerning this?

How could whoever wrote this, know that this would happen. Jeremiah 25:12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·de´ans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite

The bible was completed before this prophecy was completed. Yet as we stand here, Babylon is a desolate waste. If God does not exist, how could a human know that Ancient Babylon would become a desolate waste?

OLE' WISE KNICKSFAN4REALZ! THE GRANDEST MIND THE WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN! Please, Please, Please (Begging like James Brown) Enlighten us with your endless WISDOM. HOW COULD THEY KNOW THIS?
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
I think I've done that post before in here. But the point remains the same..

You cannot enlighten the stupid. And yes I am calling him stupid.
lol I agree. Someone that follows a denomination that falsely predicted the end of the world 9x isn't smart: 1874, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1932, 1941, 1975, 1994.

Knicks4lyfe basically got brainwashed.

I've never officially become a Jehovah's Witness(thankfully) but when I used to attend their meetings, I noticed that the Elders never tell you about Charles Taze Russell and the Watch Tower Society's history.

The reason why they don't tell you is because they'll lose another 75% of their members, like they did in 1925.

Technically, Knicks4lyfe isn't supposed to be on this website, because Jehovah's Witnesses aren't allowed to speak to non-Witnesses, unless it's for business, or to preach to non-Witnesses.
 

KnicksFan4Realz

Benchwarmer
So for once, explain how whoever the Human writer that attributed Godly wisdom knew that Ancient Babylon would become a desolate waste?

You do a lot of talking as if you're the world's more foremost intellect, and for some reason, I have not gotten a direct answer concerning this?

How could whoever wrote this, know that this would happen. Jeremiah 25:12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·de´ans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite

The bible was completed before this prophecy was completed. Yet as we stand here, Babylon is a desolate waste. If God does not exist, how could a human know that Ancient Babylon would become a desolate waste?

OLE' WISE KNICKSFAN4REALZ! THE GRANDEST MIND THE WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN! Please, Please, Please (Begging like James Brown) Enlighten us with your endless WISDOM. HOW COULD THEY KNOW THIS?

To be fair, all prophecy in the Bible was written after the fact and..again not 100 % detailed. But for sake of argument let's say he was alive during the time this happened. Well, if he was alive before it happened maybe he saw the signs of a dying empire/city.

Civil unrest, corrupt government, low morale all around the city, public services being weakened, religious fanatics, not enough food to go around for the population, and just concluded simply that Babylon was getting ready to fall. Just as plenty of folks wrote during the decline of the Egyptian, Athenian, Roman, and soon to be the US empires.

I am just a simple man with a good deal of factual knowledge. I read a good deal from various different sources. My knowledge is not confined to solely one academic discipline either. Some people read newspapers, some comics...me I prefer books about String and M-Theory in my spare time. To most folks a garage is a place to store a car...I have a complete garage...and it's also my laboratory space. I also restore 2 classic cars a year (which are then donated to a charity..and the proceeds given to a charity for minority men to go into science and engineering..I get money donated by various people...and I restore them for free it's just my small contribution to humanity itself). I drive currently a 1965 Shelby GT Ford....a true MAN CAR.

Right now for example I am working with magnetics and trying to bend the 2nd law of motion. Why? Because of the relationship between electricity and magnetism could possibly allow for a vehicle to be moved by a non-chemical fuel source.

From the military I have knowledge of weapons, warfare, history of warfare.

In college I studied a multitude of subjects. I work daily with plenty of my fellow soldiers who now have PTSD, depression, anxiety disorders, you name it they have it. I graduated with a degree in Psychology...Medical to be exact..a dual major with Chemistry. A minor in Physics. 3.98 GPA. Also I am a member of Mensa, and the Prometheus Society. (Now if you know what those two mean...questions to my intellect answer themselves), as well I speak 3 languages..working on German and Russian when I get time too.

I've been studying religion for close to 10 years now on my own.

It's not my fault..alot of people simple are not as hungry for knowledge as I am.

And next year..I plan to learn yachting as well. I'll have the time and money..

My greatest possessions in my life..are my library and my garage...
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Charles Taze Russell had falsely predicted Armageddon, in 1914.

The Jehovah's Witnesses changed their prediction and now say that Jesus started to "invisbly" rule his throne in heaven, in 1914.

The problem with this?

Revelation1:7 says, "Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen,"
 
To be fair, all prophecy in the Bible was written after the fact and..again not 100 % detailed. But for sake of argument let's say he was alive during the time this happened. Well, if he was alive before it happened maybe he saw the signs of a dying empire/city.

To be fair, Babylon was once a sprawling city like NY is now. Would you believe someone if they said it would become a desolate waste, uninhabited ever again? And also, Egypt and Rome were spoken of in the bible, but Jehovah never said either of those places would become desolate uninhabited wastelands like he said Babylon would.

The bible says Babylon will never be inhabited ever again. How many people have tried to rebuild the city since Cyrus defeated them in 539 bce? Quite a few, Alexander the great being one of them. Even he could not get it done. To this day, it is a desolated waste that in uninhabited like the bible says. What are the chances that the writer guessed right on what could take place for thousands of years after he is gone? Seriously?

And also, what proof do you have that all prophecy was written after? Show proof, don't just say it. Prove it.

Like explain this one.

▪ Prophecy: Jer. 49:17, 18: "‘Edom must become an object of astonishment. Everyone passing along by her will stare in astonishment and whistle on account of all her plagues. Just as in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah and her neighbor towns,’ Jehovah has said, ‘no man will dwell there.’" (Jeremiah’s recording of prophecies was completed by 580 B.C.E.)

□ Fulfillment: "They [the Edomites] were driven from Palestine in the 2nd century B.C. by Judas Maccabæus, and in 109 B.C. John Hyrcanus, Maccabæan leader, extended the kingdom of Judah to include the w. part of Edomitic lands. In the 1st century B.C. Roman expansion swept away the last vestige of Edomitic independence . . . After the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 A.D. . . . the name Idumæa [Edom] disappeared from history." (The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia, 1952, Vol. 11, p. 4114) Notice that the fulfillment extends down to our day. In no way can it be argued that this prophecy was written after the events had taken place.

 
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The Jehovah's Witnesses changed their prediction and now say that Jesus started to "invisbly" rule his throne in heaven, in 1914.

The problem with this?

Revelation1:7 says, "Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen,"

On the surface it would appear you have thwarted the faith. But a closer look of the bible may have benefited you greatly.

I will ask you, what about blind people? How will they see him? What about infants? If he came on the clouds literally, would an infant know the difference? Hmmm.

Jesus disciples asked him plainly what would be the sign of his presence, or second coming in Mat. 24:3-14. And Jesus went on to explain what the sign of his presence would be, so that those who are his true disciples, would recognize that he has come.

Nowhere in that sign did he say they would actually see him on the clouds. In fact, one who was thinking would wonder why his disciples would be asking for a sign in the first place, since as you said, Rev says he is coming with the clouds and every eye shall see him. Would be no sign needed in that case.

But what you have apparently overlooked, is Revelation 1:1

A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,

So the visions John saw, though they had a literal fulfillment in some way, were symbolic references, or signs to portray literal fulfillments.

But also, lets read this is Act 1:9-11

9 And after he(JESUS) had said these things, while they(HIS DISCIPLES) were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their vision. 10 And as they were gazing into the sky while he was on his way, also, look! two men(ANGELS) in white garments stood alongside them, 11 and they said: ?Men of Gal?i?lee, why do YOU stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was received up from YOU into the sky will come thus in the same manner as YOU have beheld him going into the sky.?

Now the Angels said Jesus would return in the same manner that they(Jesus disciples) saw him going into the sky. Verse 9 says when he was lifted by the cloud, he was caught from their vision. That indicates they could literally no longer see him in the clouds. And that is why verse ten says while they kept gazing. They were trying to still see him, but no longer could be cause the clouds hid him from their vision. Which makes literal sense, because as bright as our sun is, on a cloudy day, you cannot even see it unless the clouds clear.

Jesus was speaking to his Disiciples in Mat 24:3-14. He told them what sign to look for. Therefore, they had to be on the watch for the sign. Revelation 1:7's reference to every eye shall see him, then refers to all eyes that can distinguish the sign. Clearly not every eye has seen this sign, but Jesus Disciples have. But then again, who was Jesus speaking too in Mathew 24:3-14? Every single eye? Or the Keen eyes of his true disciples?
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
False predictions, by Jehovah's Witnesses:
1874, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1932, 1941, 1975, 1994

Jehovah's Witnesses believed that God lived on a star called, "Alcyone," until the 1950s.
The link below shows you the occult origin of the name "Alcyone," which originates with the theosophical society, created in 1875, right around the time Russell created the Jehovah's Witnesses.
http://www.theosophical.ca/AtFeetMaster.htm

Jehovah's Witnesses believed that vaccinations come from the devil.

Where in the Bible does it say that you can't get vaccinated, or that God lives on Alcyone?

Jehovah's Witnesses also practice shunning, where none of the members speak to the person that is shunned. If a member is shunned, and their family members are also Jehovah's Witnesses, the shunned person isn't allowed to talk to their family, either. If the shunned person is married, they can't speak to their spouse. If a son or daughter is shunned or disfellowshipped, the Parents are allowed to throw their children out of their house, once they turn 18.

:thumbsup: There's nothing wrong with anything I mentioned. It's all normal, I know.

You said, "But then again, who was Jesus speaking to in Matthew 24:3? Every single eye?, Or the Keen eye of his true disciples?"

Here's a question: Did you see Jesus, in 1914? No, so what's your point?
 
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Jehovah's Witnesses also practice shunning, where none of the members speak to the person that is shunned. If a member is shunned, and their family members are also Jehovah's Witnesses, the shunned person isn't allowed to talk to their family, either. If the shunned person is married, they can't speak to their spouse. If a son or daughter is shunned or disfellowshipped, the Parents are allowed to throw their children out of their house, once they turn 18.

:thumbsup: There's nothing wrong with anything I mentioned. It's all normal, I know.

Not true.

God?s Word directs the congregation to expel those who unrepentantly practice sin. (1 Corinthians 5:11-13) This protects the congregation in general from contamination and upholds its good name. But on a personal basis loyal Christians in the family, and others wanting to help them, need protection too.
We can appreciate why by considering what a person?s being disfellowshipped reveals about his heart condition. Note the following two situations in connection with disfellowshipping:


First, when a person has committed a serious sin for which he might lose God?s favor and be disfellowshipped, a committee of spiritual elders meets with him. He may already have realized the wrongness of his course, repented in his heart and begun to produce "works that befit repentance." (Acts 26:20) When that is so, the elders will reprove him with God?s Word, will offer Biblical advice on ?making straight paths for his feet? and will pray with him and for him. Since he is repentant, he need not be expelled or viewed as disfellowshipped by his family or others.?1 Timothy 5:20; Hebrews 12:13; James 5:14-16.

Second, it may be that when the committee meets with the sinner, he has not yet repented. During the meeting the elders may be able to touch his heart, bringing home to him the gravity of his sin. (Compare 2 Samuel 12:1-13.) Of course, since he has not up till then produced any ?fruit that befits repentance,? the elders should exercise real caution to make sure that he is not merely sorry or ashamed over being found out. (Luke 3:8) Being concerned about the congregation, they should be absolutely convinced that he is now truly repentant and ready to "turn to God by doing works that befit repentance." (Acts 26:20) If they are convinced that he is repentant, he may remain in the congregation and be helped by the elders, his family and others.

What is the point of mentioning these two aspects? It is to illustrate that if someone is disfellowshipped, he must at the time have had a truly bad heart and/or been determined to pursue a God-dishonoring course. Peter said that the condition of such a person is worse than before he became a Christian; he is like ?a sow that was bathed but has gone back to rolling in the mire.? (2 Peter 2:20-22) This should help Christian relatives and others to have God?s view of a disfellowshipped person.

But human emotions and attachments can have a powerful effect, making it difficult for people to act in accord with the disfellowshipping decree if a relative is involved. (Compare Numbers 16:16-33.) For example, a faithful Christian wife realizes that her husband?s being disfellowshipped means that the spiritual ties that formerly existed have been severed. He has, by his conduct and its results, broken a spiritual bond between himself and true Christians. His wife will continue to show love and respect for him as husband and family head, even as do wives whose husbands never were believers. (1 Peter 3:1, 2) But it will not be possible to have spiritual fellowship with him, sharing in Bible discussions and prayer with him as she once did. (Proverbs 28:9) She certainly will feel this loss.​

So before you speak on a subject, inform yourself of it a bit more.

Jehovah hates divorce. So he would never tell a wife of a disfellowshipped husband to neglect him by not speaking with him. On a spritual level is where she would have to draw the line. Since her husband has exibited a worldy attitude instead of a spiritual one, would she be smart to listen to anything he has to say spiritually in the non spiritual state he is now in?





 

Paul1355

All Star
If this is true, help me out too. Why do you believe Jesus is God when he says he was created by God?

That would help me greatly in my quest for truth. It is the biggest reason why I believe what I do, because JW's have helped me to see that Jesus is not God.

I have been waiting for weeks for you to reply to our earlier conversation on this subject.

Sorry for the delay.

We can continue this arguement but the problem is that your belief is not of scripture. Your belief is from the writings of Jehovah's Witness, your own set writings of the JW's. Your dis-belief in the Trinity will make it impossible for you to believe in one God, but with seperate divine function. Since you cannot possibly imagine how in Phillipians chapter 2 God imputed himself in the form of man, the man Christ Jesus, the one God and mediator between God and man as said in 1 Timothy 2:5. While your at it check Revelation 1:8 were He says "I am the Alpha and the Omega who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
I hope that the Holy Spirit can guide you to understanding for it is the third person of the Trinity.
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
I was raised Catholic, though I'm no longer a Christian, and the trinity essentially refers to one of God's essential parts, Jesus, the father, and the holy ghost. Like I said earlier, Jesus calls himself the alpha and the omega, just as God does in the old testament. In addition, John says the word was with god and the word was God. The only challenge to this that I've seen is Lyfe's claim that the JW translation says that Jesus was "a god," which smacks of polytheism. It also says that Jesus will judge, when in the OT it says God will. The bible also says that nothing would have been created without Jesus. There are numerous examples, including one where the angels bow to worship Jesus. Why would angels worship anyone but God?

Lyfe also believes more than Jesus as being separate from God, he believes that Jesus is Michael, a tremendous stretch of bible information, something which should tell him that the JWs are making a lot of stuff up.

As abcd wrote earlier, the JW have occult origins, related to the theosophical society, who named Krishnamurti, their holy herald for the return of Christ, Alcyone. Meanwhile, the JWs claimed that God lived on a star called Alcyone. Russell also supported a book called Angels and Women as being divinely inspired.

As I mentioned earlier, and you failed to answer, Lyfe, JWs have engaged in false prophecy, which the bible condemns and says is reason for people not to "fear" you, a word used in the bible to mean that people should not listen to you or obey you. The bible says to fear God, so how can an organization that is not to be feared be sanctified? You've actually ignored that post, along with many others. I don't think you have an answer.

As for Paul, you have to realize that lyfe is not asking you anything in earnest. JWs aren't free to change or leave the flock, because they'd face shunning. More over, JWS, and I've attended many of their meetings as a guest, regularly insult Catholics and call them statue worshipers, idolaters, they talk about Catholic priests in a derogatory fashion, and they believe that you, along with members of other Christian faiths, will be "put to death," to use some JW jargon. His question is more about him having an opportunity to preach to you, than about spiritual seeking.
 
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Paul1355

All Star
To be fair, all prophecy in the Bible was written after the fact and..again not 100 % detailed. But for sake of argument let's say he was alive during the time this happened. Well, if he was alive before it happened maybe he saw the signs of a dying empire/city.

Civil unrest, corrupt government, low morale all around the city, public services being weakened, religious fanatics, not enough food to go around for the population, and just concluded simply that Babylon was getting ready to fall. Just as plenty of folks wrote during the decline of the Egyptian, Athenian, Roman, and soon to be the US empires.

I am just a simple man with a good deal of factual knowledge. I read a good deal from various different sources. My knowledge is not confined to solely one academic discipline either. Some people read newspapers, some comics...me I prefer books about String and M-Theory in my spare time. To most folks a garage is a place to store a car...I have a complete garage...and it's also my laboratory space. I also restore 2 classic cars a year (which are then donated to a charity..and the proceeds given to a charity for minority men to go into science and engineering..I get money donated by various people...and I restore them for free it's just my small contribution to humanity itself). I drive currently a 1965 Shelby GT Ford....a true MAN CAR.

Right now for example I am working with magnetics and trying to bend the 2nd law of motion. Why? Because of the relationship between electricity and magnetism could possibly allow for a vehicle to be moved by a non-chemical fuel source.

From the military I have knowledge of weapons, warfare, history of warfare.

In college I studied a multitude of subjects. I work daily with plenty of my fellow soldiers who now have PTSD, depression, anxiety disorders, you name it they have it. I graduated with a degree in Psychology...Medical to be exact..a dual major with Chemistry. A minor in Physics. 3.98 GPA. Also I am a member of Mensa, and the Prometheus Society. (Now if you know what those two mean...questions to my intellect answer themselves), as well I speak 3 languages..working on German and Russian when I get time too.

I've been studying religion for close to 10 years now on my own.

It's not my fault..alot of people simple are not as hungry for knowledge as I am.

And next year..I plan to learn yachting as well. I'll have the time and money..

My greatest possessions in my life..are my library and my garage...


The statement I bolded shows me you have little knowledge and most of all, no understanding of the Bible. You say ALL prophecy was written after the actual event, I'm sorry but you are wrong. Let me just give you one prophecy that was obviously written thousands of years before and came true. The nation of Israel, becoming a nation, inhabited by people of the Jewish background.
The Bible talks about Israel becoming a nation once again from the story of the Valley of Dry Bones in Ezekial chapter 37. In this chapter Ezekial had a vision of dry bones scattered and becoming formed again. Then in verse 11 of this chapter, Ezekial says that God told him "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel."
So we have a nation called Israel forming again, and this is a prophecy fullfilled in 1948. Now we all know that this was not written after 1948, in matter of fact it was written thousands of years before making this an amazing prophecy that many people can relate to in history because it is so recent.
Now you complain about the prophecies not being detailed enough, my friend, the reason why the prophecies are so amazing is because they are so detailed. The thing is that they were written in a time thousands of years ago so the detail is not of modern times. It's not like a 9 year old can open this book and fully understand it. It is a historical source with words meaning something else, many different meanings are in the Bible that people mis-understand.
Now let's look in some detail, the people of Israel reutrning to their homeland. Jeremiah 32:37 says, I will surely gather them from all the lands where I banish them in my furious anger and great wrath; I will bring them back to this place and let them live in safety. Now we know Israel has had it's share of violence and war, but the land has never been taken over completely and still it stands in safety. And as we speak, many people, mostly Jews, are returning to live in Israel like never before. And the amount of people increases every year.
Another more detailed description of the people returning to Israel is in Ezekiel 34:13 were it says, I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land. So we have the people coming from all nations coming to their own land which is Israel and the Jews of course. Then it says the land is Israel and they will live in all settlements in the land. I mean I don't know how more specfic you want this to be.
After all of this, Israel was prohecised thousands of years before that it would become a nation re-formed for the Jews. And that the Jews would come from all natons inhabiting it.

So in the end.... THIS PROPHECY WAS WRITTEN BEFORE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

And Israel still stands as a country surrounded by enemies and amazingly is still alive even though it was attacked by many Arab nations in history. There were times were Israel was so outnumbered that the odds of them winning a war was almost imposible, but they still managed to win. Because the Bible says that they are protected by God and will never perish.
 

Paul1355

All Star
I was raised Catholic, though I'm no longer a Christian, and the trinity essentially refers to one of God's essential parts, Jesus, the father, and the holy ghost. Like I said earlier, Jesus calls himself the alpha and the omega, just as God does in the old testament. In addition, John says the word was with god and the word was God. The only challenge to this that I've seen is Lyfe's claim that the JW translation says that Jesus was "a god," which smacks of polytheism. It also says that Jesus will judge, when in the OT it says God will. The bible also says that nothing would have been created without Jesus. There are numerous examples, including one where the angels bow to worship Jesus. Why would angels worship anyone but God?

Lyfe also believes more than Jesus as being separate from God, he believes that Jesus is Michael, a tremendous stretch of bible information, something which should tell him that the JWs are making a lot of stuff up.

As abcd wrote earlier, the JW have occult origins, related to the theosophical society, who named Krishnamurti, their holy herald for the return of Christ, Alcyone. Meanwhile, the JWs claimed that God lived on a star called Alcyone. Russell also supported a book called Angels and Women as being divinely inspired.

As I mentioned earlier, and you failed to answer, Lyfe, JWs have engaged in false prophecy, which the bible condemns and says is reason for people not to "fear" you, a word used in the bible to mean that people should not listen to you or obey you. The bible says to fear God, so how can an organization that is not to be feared be sanctified? You've actually ignored that post, along with many others. I don't think you have an answer.

As for Paul, you have to realize that lyfe is not asking you anything in earnest. JWs aren't free to change or leave the flock, because they'd face shunning. More over, JWS, and I've attended many of their meetings as a guest, regularly insult Catholics and call them statue worshipers, idolaters, they talk about Catholic priests in a derogatory fashion, and they believe that you, along with members of other Christian faiths, will be "put to death," to use some JW jargon. His question is more about him having an opportunity to preach to you, than about spiritual seeking.

So OG, it sounds like you have a basic understanding of the Bible but why don't you believe in it's words?
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
I'm not interested in Christianity as the end all. I take spiritual encouragement from the bible, but I don't believe that God is a man or a person, which is what the bible implies, and I don't agree with many of the actions sanctified in the bible.

I also believe that the religious faiths have failed us. At the point of adulthood, we tend to feel like it's wrong to consider oneself a victim, but, if you look at yourself as a child, as well as the children that you grew up with, religion has failed us. It is now failing a new generation.

I think the faiths, for the most part, make it too easy to call yourself this or that. There's no need to work, when it comes to most religions, except in a very superficial way.

The trinity is one of the things that I believe are beneficial, when it comes to the bible. To me, it is a metaphor of the different levels of an individual's essence: the father/mother essence as the creative force, that which can produce the new, the son/daughter as the product, the present state, the holy spirit as that which gives the life force, that element that stays with a person from the time they're born. If you think back, you can remember it.

Christianity, as well as other religions, I've delved in, just doesn't offer me the freedom I seek, intellectually or otherwise. I think real morality, spirituality demands total freedom, from immorality, as well as other attachments. This is why people go to church, mosque, or elsewhere, and they still rape and murder. We need a revolution in our way of living, thinking, believing, and worshiping.
 

KnicksFan4Realz

Benchwarmer
The statement I bolded shows me you have little knowledge and most of all, no understanding of the Bible. You say ALL prophecy was written after the actual event, I'm sorry but you are wrong. Let me just give you one prophecy that was obviously written thousands of years before and came true. The nation of Israel, becoming a nation, inhabited by people of the Jewish background.
The Bible talks about Israel becoming a nation once again from the story of the Valley of Dry Bones in Ezekial chapter 37. In this chapter Ezekial had a vision of dry bones scattered and becoming formed again. Then in verse 11 of this chapter, Ezekial says that God told him "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel."
So we have a nation called Israel forming again, and this is a prophecy fullfilled in 1948. Now we all know that this was not written after 1948, in matter of fact it was written thousands of years before making this an amazing prophecy that many people can relate to in history because it is so recent.
Now you complain about the prophecies not being detailed enough, my friend, the reason why the prophecies are so amazing is because they are so detailed. The thing is that they were written in a time thousands of years ago so the detail is not of modern times. It's not like a 9 year old can open this book and fully understand it. It is a historical source with words meaning something else, many different meanings are in the Bible that people mis-understand.
Now let's look in some detail, the people of Israel reutrning to their homeland. Jeremiah 32:37 says, I will surely gather them from all the lands where I banish them in my furious anger and great wrath; I will bring them back to this place and let them live in safety. Now we know Israel has had it's share of violence and war, but the land has never been taken over completely and still it stands in safety. And as we speak, many people, mostly Jews, are returning to live in Israel like never before. And the amount of people increases every year.
Another more detailed description of the people returning to Israel is in Ezekiel 34:13 were it says, I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land. So we have the people coming from all nations coming to their own land which is Israel and the Jews of course. Then it says the land is Israel and they will live in all settlements in the land. I mean I don't know how more specfic you want this to be.
After all of this, Israel was prohecised thousands of years before that it would become a nation re-formed for the Jews. And that the Jews would come from all natons inhabiting it.

So in the end.... THIS PROPHECY WAS WRITTEN BEFORE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

And Israel still stands as a country surrounded by enemies and amazingly is still alive even though it was attacked by many Arab nations in history. There were times were Israel was so outnumbered that the odds of them winning a war was almost imposible, but they still managed to win. Because the Bible says that they are protected by God and will never perish.

I hate to burst your bubble but none of those quotes you mention specifically talk about the state of Israel reforming back in 1948...

They talk about bones and require highly imaginative interpretations to the scripture...this is what I am talking about when I say they are written after the fact.

Making a very very loose reference to something from the past does not qualify it being accurate scripture foretelling future events as many religious people like to claim. Only such things coming from a supernatural GOD MUST BE SPECIFIC. Not some combination of loose metaphors.

Your quote talks about bones...excuse while I LMAO but that is not very specific.

As far as it being an historical source...do we really need to have this conversation as to why it is not? Mention it's failed prophecies? Not to mention is prophecies that were extremely incorrect as well?

There is nothing complicated about the bible. Just the rantings of folks who wrote these works from previous oral traditions...once again AFTER THE FACT.

People read the bible and see what they wish to you, as you and many other do. But just because you believe does not make them to be true.

Noah's ark..prime example..not true. No evidence supports it. I know this may not be a "prophecy"...but still something people attribute as a FACT...and yet it's completely false.

Having a vision of "dry bones" hardly constitutes it is mentioning a nation reforming. PERIOD. That's speculation at it's very best and a very very loose interpretation to it's meaning because like I said..it's not saying bam the state of Israel will come back be reformed in 1948...doesn't say that specifically at all.

Then to be even more direct...says the Jews will be there in safety. If what you say is true...ALL THE VIOLENCE there then makes it a FALSE PROPHECY. If it were true at all..then why all the killing and bombs still?? As well all the Jews still don't live there...most live here in the US...why haven't they left to fulfill this yet?

PROPHECY STILL FALSE BULLSHIT. AT THE END OF THE DAY. AND THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE IT TRUE IS TO TAKE A VERY METAPHORICAL VIEW OF THE BIBLICAL PASSAGES.

Do you folks not realize that at the time this work that to "prophesize" was to sing. And at the time when someone was believed to be able to see future events they were not called prophets..but seers. And this word is used in the bible by the way in several places to distinguish between the two. Now why would they go through all that trouble to distinguish??

Believing in religion, still requires one to believe in magic and to ignore reality.
 

Paul1355

All Star
I hate to burst your bubble but none of those quotes you mention specifically talk about the state of Israel reforming back in 1948...

They talk about bones and require highly imaginative interpretations to the scripture...this is what I am talking about when I say they are written after the fact.

Making a very very loose reference to something from the past does not qualify it being accurate scripture foretelling future events as many religious people like to claim. Only such things coming from a supernatural GOD MUST BE SPECIFIC. Not some combination of loose metaphors.

Your quote talks about bones...excuse while I LMAO but that is not very specific.

As far as it being an historical source...do we really need to have this conversation as to why it is not? Mention it's failed prophecies? Not to mention is prophecies that were extremely incorrect as well?

There is nothing complicated about the bible. Just the rantings of folks who wrote these works from previous oral traditions...once again AFTER THE FACT.

People read the bible and see what they wish to you, as you and many other do. But just because you believe does not make them to be true.

Noah's ark..prime example..not true. No evidence supports it. I know this may not be a "prophecy"...but still something people attribute as a FACT...and yet it's completely false.

Having a vision of "dry bones" hardly constitutes it is mentioning a nation reforming. PERIOD. That's speculation at it's very best and a very very loose interpretation to it's meaning because like I said..it's not saying bam the state of Israel will come back be reformed in 1948...doesn't say that specifically at all.

Then to be even more direct...says the Jews will be there in safety. If what you say is true...ALL THE VIOLENCE there then makes it a FALSE PROPHECY. If it were true at all..then why all the killing and bombs still?? As well all the Jews still don't live there...most live here in the US...why haven't they left to fulfill this yet?

PROPHECY STILL FALSE BULLSHIT. AT THE END OF THE DAY. AND THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE IT TRUE IS TO TAKE A VERY METAPHORICAL VIEW OF THE BIBLICAL PASSAGES.

Do you folks not realize that at the time this work that to "prophesize" was to sing. And at the time when someone was believed to be able to see future events they were not called prophets..but seers. And this word is used in the bible by the way in several places to distinguish between the two. Now why would they go through all that trouble to distinguish??

Believing in religion, still requires one to believe in magic and to ignore reality.

How can you say the bones don't refer to Israel when I gave you an exact quote word to word from the Bible saying that the bones are Israel ?!?!?!?

EZEKIAL 37:11
, it clearly says....now read this carefully because you missed it....."Son of man, these bones are the wholehouse of Israel."

If you choose to ignore this then you have no right to argue for you overlook clear quotes from scripture. You can't describe a prophecy any easier than that quote. This a prophecy that was predicted thousands of years before and was full-filled. Your comment on the safety of Israel is foolish, if you actually read what I wrote, you wouldn't have talked about the bombs and violence because I already pointed that out, end of debate.
 
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Sorry for the delay.

We can continue this arguement but the problem is that your belief is not of scripture. Your belief is from the writings of Jehovah's Witness, your own set writings of the JW's. Your dis-belief in the Trinity will make it impossible for you to believe in one God, but with seperate divine function. Since you cannot possibly imagine how in Phillipians chapter 2 God imputed himself in the form of man, the man Christ Jesus, the one God and mediator between God and man as said in 1 Timothy 2:5. While your at it check Revelation 1:8 were He says "I am the Alpha and the Omega who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
I hope that the Holy Spirit can guide you to understanding for it is the third person of the Trinity.

Not a problem, there are other more pressing things in life than the Hangout section on this board lol. Thanks for getting back though.

Now the phil verse, which specifically do you refer too? As for 1 Tim. 2:5 it reads KJ. 5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Problem with one saying this implies the Trinity as a doctrine is "MEDIATOR". If Christ is the Mediator between God and men, then he cannot be God. Well all know that the mediator is a seperate party between two. So Jesus being God and mediator would invalidate the word mediator.

Alpha and Omega:

To whom does this title properly belong? (1) At Revelation 1:8, its owner is said to be God, the Almighty. In verse 11 according to KJ, that title is applied to one whose description thereafter shows him to be Jesus Christ. But scholars recognize the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 11 to be spurious, and so it does not appear in RS, NE, JB, NAB, Dy.

(2) Many translations of Revelation into Hebrew recognize that the one described in verse 8 is Jehovah, and so they restore the personal name of God there.

(3) Revelation 21:6, 7 indicates that Christians who are spiritual conquerors are to be ?sons? of the one known as the Alpha and the Omega. That is never said of the relationship of spirit-anointed Christians to Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke of them as his ?brothers.? (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those ?brothers? of Jesus are referred to as "sons of God." (Gal. 3:26; 4:6)

(4) At Revelation 22:12, TEV inserts the name Jesus, so the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 13 is made to appear to apply to him. But the name Jesus does not appear there in Greek, and other translations do not include it.

(5) At Revelation 22:13, the Alpha and Omega is also said to be "the first and the last," which expression is applied to Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18. Similarly, the expression "apostle" is applied both to Jesus Christ and to certain ones of his followers. But that does not prove that they are the same person or are of equal rank, does it? (Heb. 3:1) So the evidence points to the conclusion that the title "Alpha and Omega" applies to Almighty God, the Father, not to the Son.
 
Then to be even more direct...says the Jews will be there in safety. If what you say is true...ALL THE VIOLENCE there then makes it a FALSE PROPHECY. If it were true at all..then why all the killing and bombs still?? As well all the Jews still don't live there...most live here in the US...why haven't they left to fulfill this yet?
Because the world thinks this refers to literal Isreal and it doesn't. And you're exactly right, if it did, it would be false for the very reasons you mentioned, and many more. The Jews and Earthly Isreal have long not been God's people. Even Jesus, said so.

PROPHECY STILL FALSE BULLSHIT. AT THE END OF THE DAY. AND THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE IT TRUE IS TO TAKE A VERY METAPHORICAL VIEW OF THE BIBLICAL PASSAGES.
While prophecy at times takes on a metaphoric view, that really should not invalidate it if it adds up. To take that stance you have is to in a way lack reason. There are plenty of metaphors in your life maybe even your parents have used to explain things to you that once understood made sense. So why cannot the Bible do the same at times?
 

TunerAddict

Starter
Because the world thinks this refers to literal Isreal and it doesn't. And you're exactly right, if it did, it would be false for the very reasons you mentioned, and many more. The Jews and Earthly Isreal have long not been God's people. Even Jesus, said so.

While prophecy at times takes on a metaphoric view, that really should not invalidate it if it adds up. To take that stance you have is to in a way lack reason. There are plenty of metaphors in your life maybe even your parents have used to explain things to you that once understood made sense. So why cannot the Bible do the same at times?


What he is saying is that you cannot pick and choose whenever its convenient to you. You don't get it both ways, and only in whichever way helps your side. I believe that is what he is saying.
 
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